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Thread: Obama plans instute forced servitude

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by kikidejavu View Post
    50 hours a week is not alot. it is less than one hour per week for a year. At my high school we had to do so many hours before we could graduate.
    i think its a wonderful idea, and it really taught us some values we wouldnt otherwise have.
    we also got scholarships, and financial aid.
    people always talk about how they want the world to be a nicer place, but dont want to find ways to do it.
    thats like opposing gym in schools because its not "educational". ok but its part of being a well rounded human being.
    this site always reminds me of how lazy and spoiled americans are.
    why dispute something that will help the next generation be better people?
    why would volunteer work anger you to the point of not sending your children to school? its just ridiculous.
    The problem that so many people have with Obama and this social policy, is not with the number of hours required or any of that ilk. It is based on the direction that this type of policy leads us as a nation. Mandatory service is not a good thing.

    Sure, this program has many inherent benefits, however one could argue that it is the place of the parents to teach children good social behavior and responsibility ... not the government. That type of thinking would have us allowing the government teach our children what moral beliefs to hold and which religion to prescribe to.

    We are 'lazy' because we are fighting a social program that would force our children to do mandatory service? Where does that even come from? Where do you get your basis for that statement?

    Great job at generalizing 'Americans' as a lazy people and then supporting it with something that leads no credence to what you just said.

    Narcissus

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    Featured Member flickad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
    I would apologize for my irritation at you as well as include any slights made, but you were, in several threads arguing points that had virtually nothing to do with my original posts/thoughts on the matter and then labeling them outrageous things ... therefore debunking my opinion based on a fallacious skew. I feel that my irritation, and therefore any heated unnecessary comments, were fully justified. I don't have a problem with people holding a differing view than I ... I just have a problem with people searching for an argument and/or attempting to find an easy way to discredit an opposing view. Big difference.

    Wealth redistribution at its most base form is hardly what I would consider a soft social reform. True, definitions may be apt ... yet saying the titanic was large would be true as well, but does so little in describing its massive size. When the government starts deciding who has too much money, takes some of that money, and then distributes that money to those it deems are deserving ... that is a radical move away from capitalism. It starts down a road of reform and class warfare that goes against the very ideology that capitalism stands for.

    Yes, I agree that we have instituted similar policies in the past. It still is a step in the wrong direction (the same as socialized/universal health care) and more extreme than ever before. Add to that the fact that Obama is an admirer (or was in his younger days - lol) of the man that is arguably the father of the radical movement. I'm not sure what you read about the guy, but he is famous for inventing community organizing as a political camouflage for subverting America's democracy and capitalist economy. He details numerous ways in which a man can rise in political power and beguile a country into changing into an 'idealistic socialistic society'. He is what an informed American would label as: 'a bad, bad man'.

    Then when you mix even even more radical influences that they guy had throughout the majority of his life (beyond that of Saul Alinsky), it makes the his motives a bit more clear. Here is a small list of the most well known connections that Obama has had:

    Bill Ayers - Frank Marshall Davis - Rev. Jeremiah Wright - Father Michael Pfleger - Antoin Rezko

    Narcissus
    To apologise and then deem your actions completely justifiable is to negate the apology. I did not exaggerate at all. I stated that it seemed to me you were making the implication that socialised medicine and graduated taxes might be beginning of the end for capitalism, and you have re-stated precisely that just now, though in less succinct form. My argument was that, in other developed countries, these measures had not led to a dictatorship of the proletariat (so to speak) and that I accordingly thought any perceived threat to capitalism as a whole was exaggerated by you. I'm summarising here, these were not my exact words, but it was the thrust of my argument.

    I was not making this contention in order to antagonise or bruise your ego. Frankly, I don't know why I'd bother 'searching for an argument' or trying to discredit something if I thought it was true. I'm not that much in need of a distraction.

    I searched for your early posts maybe half an hour ago, since I can't recall seeing you here before, and noticed that you have a habit of speaking sneeringly to those who disagree with you, though none of them attacked you personally or made poorly reasoned arguments, so I must conclude that I am not the problem here.

    I am not going to comment further on Alinsky as I have not read the books in question, but I will state that my brief spate of internet research turned up little of what I would term doom and gloom. I will also say that an idealistic socialistic society sounds like a good one to me, as long as a balance is struck in terms of civil liberties.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    on the subject of rev. wright, i would like to point out that thats he is representative of every preacher in a black church in america.
    can you blame him for being disillusioned by the idea of patriotism?
    what has america done for an old black man beside marginalize, and beat into the ground any piece of self confidence and hope they may have had when they were younger?
    this country has been very hard on black men since we came here. its a wonder obama managed to scrape up any hope for change at all.
    and thank God he did.
    Rev. Wright has lived through the civil rights movement, rodney king, today's unbalanced amount f black people living in poverty, and countless other injustices.
    he has no reason to like anything about this country.
    "We are the coolest mothafuckas on the planet....The sky is fallin ain't no need to panic"... -Outkast

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
    The problem that so many people have with Obama and this social policy, is not with the number of hours required or any of that ilk. It is based on the direction that this type of policy leads us as a nation. Mandatory service is not a good thing.

    Sure, this program has many inherent benefits, however one could argue that it is the place of the parents to teach children good social behavior and responsibility ... not the government. That type of thinking would have us allowing the government teach our children what moral beliefs to hold and which religion to prescribe to.

    We are 'lazy' because we are fighting a social program that would force our children to do mandatory service? Where does that even come from? Where do you get your basis for that statement?

    Great job at generalizing 'Americans' as a lazy people and then supporting it with something that leads no credence to what you just said.

    Narcissus
    lmao. you seem to think that america is in good moral standing right now. lmao. ha. ha. ha
    clearly parents are not doing a good job of teaching their children morals. have you seen mtv lately? off subject.....

    my point is this, school is mandatory and i dont see you protesting that.
    why? because it is good for society that children are required to go to school. it is also good for children to learn to help others.

    you think when school became mandatory,there werent those who were upset because they didnt think their child should be made to go? but look at how its helped our society.
    government shapes our values in countless ways, laws on gay marriage, abortion, social programs, education. why not sprinkle something positive in there, that may help our children become decent human beings? past what we as parents teach them?
    "We are the coolest mothafuckas on the planet....The sky is fallin ain't no need to panic"... -Outkast

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    To apologise and then deem your actions completely justifiable is to negate the apology. I did not exaggerate at all. I stated that it seemed to me you were making the implication that socialised medicine and graduated taxes might be beginning of the end for capitalism, and you have re-stated precisely that just now, though in less succinct form. My argument was that, in other developed countries, these measures had not led to a dictatorship of the proletariat (so to speak) and that I accordingly thought any perceived threat to capitalism as a whole was exaggerated by you. I'm summarising here, these were not my exact words, but it was the thrust of my argument.

    I was not making this contention in order to antagonise or bruise your ego. Frankly, I don't know why I'd bother 'searching for an argument' or trying to discredit something if I thought it was true. I'm not that much in need of a distraction.

    I searched for your early posts maybe half an hour ago, since I can't recall seeing you here before, and noticed that you have a habit of speaking sneeringly to those who disagree with you, though none of them attacked you personally or made poorly reasoned arguments, so I must conclude that I am not the problem here.

    I am not going to comment further on Alinsky as I have not read the books in question, but I will state that my brief spate of internet research turned up little of what I would term doom and gloom. I will also say that an idealistic socialistic society sounds like a good one to me, as long as a balance is struck in terms of civil liberties.
    Is it the way I talk that causes you to have a problem understanding me? I didn't apologize in that quote ... I did the exact opposite and explained why I felt justified in not apologizing.

    As for my negative, offensive, threatened, berating attitude (whatever you choose to label it) ... oh well. I have a serious problem with people who attempt to sound intelligent and well informed on an internet website and then miss the most obvious correlations (or complete lack of) between my views and their arguments against said views. If you took the time to read my older posts, you might be pleasantly surprised that I got irritated and frustrated with an individual that continually argued against documented AIDs and HIV percentages in America and the growth rate of those percentages. Even after being shown proof (direct links), she continued to argue.

    If you are wondering how I could remember way back then without looking back to see (I assure you ... I didn't), it is because it is a very sensitive subject to me and her attitude and our subsequent arguments were so out of the ordinary that I still remember it.

    As for our little debate (yours and mine), you continue to take a tiny piece of the pie, taste it, and then tell me how great the entire meal was when you ate nothing more than the bite of pie. Then you wonder why I get agitated and confrontational ... ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kikidejavu View Post
    on the subject of rev. wright, i would like to point out that thats he is representative of every preacher in a black church in america.
    can you blame him for being disillusioned by the idea of patriotism?
    what has america done for an old black man beside marginalize, and beat into the ground any piece of self confidence and hope they may have had when they were younger?
    this country has been very hard on black men since we came here. its a wonder obama managed to scrape up any hope for change at all.
    and thank God he did.
    Rev. Wright has lived through the civil rights movement, rodney king, today's unbalanced amount f black people living in poverty, and countless other injustices.
    he has no reason to like anything about this country.
    Funny. I've probably met more black preachers than most and I've never met a single one that could be considered as represented by Rev. Wright. As a matter of fact, I'd be willing to wager that I've met many that would be absolutely furious if even compared to him. Rev. Wright does not preach religion ... he preaches hate, he peddles hate, and he thrives on hate. Rev Wright is a hate monger and he uses racism as his platform ... He ranks right up there with Al Sharpton as being a broker, provoker, and beneficiary of racial hate.

    I've never met the man. I've never sat through one of his sermons. I have, however, read a few of them and even caught glimpses of him at his finest. That was far more than enough ...

    Quote Originally Posted by kikidejavu View Post
    lmao. you seem to think that america is in good moral standing right now. lmao. ha. ha. ha
    clearly parents are not doing a good job of teaching their children morals. have you seen mtv lately? off subject.....

    my point is this, school is mandatory and i dont see you protesting that.
    why? because it is good for society that children are required to go to school. it is also good for children to learn to help others.

    you think when school became mandatory,there werent those who were upset because they didnt think their child should be made to go? but look at how its helped our society.
    government shapes our values in countless ways, laws on gay marriage, abortion, social programs, education. why not sprinkle something positive in there, that may help our children become decent human beings? past what we as parents teach them?
    Where did I say that America had good moral standing? Where did I say that? I'll help you out on this one: I didn't.

    So because school is mandatory, we should not balk at anything that the government decides to make mandatory ... as long as it has something that could be considered positive associated with it?

    Brilliant! So you won't mind being forced (read: mandatory) to join the military (everyone must serve) and being sent to Afghanistan? It has a good associated with it: it would teach people how to work together and get along and maybe even offer them an alternative career path!

    You make no sense whatsoever. You claim that because one thing has an associated positive attached ... then everything that has an associated positive attached must also be good. Wow.

    Narcissus

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
    Is it the way I talk that causes you to have a problem understanding me? I didn't apologize in that quote ... I did the exact opposite and explained why I felt justified in not apologizing.

    As for my negative, offensive, threatened, berating attitude (whatever you choose to label it) ... oh well. I have a serious problem with people who attempt to sound intelligent and well informed on an internet website and then miss the most obvious correlations (or complete lack of) between my views and their arguments against said views. If you took the time to read my older posts, you might be pleasantly surprised that I got irritated and frustrated with an individual that continually argued against documented AIDs and HIV percentages in America and the growth rate of those percentages. Even after being shown proof (direct links), she continued to argue.

    If you are wondering how I could remember way back then without looking back to see (I assure you ... I didn't), it is because it is a very sensitive subject to me and her attitude and our subsequent arguments were so out of the ordinary that I still remember it.

    As for our little debate (yours and mine), you continue to take a tiny piece of the pie, taste it, and then tell me how great the entire meal was when you ate nothing more than the bite of pie. Then you wonder why I get agitated and confrontational ... ?
    What you said was:

    I would apologize for my irritation at you as well as include any slights made, but you were, in several threads arguing points that had virtually nothing to do with my original posts/thoughts on the matter and then labeling them outrageous things ... therefore debunking my opinion based on a fallacious skew. I feel that my irritation, and therefore any heated unnecessary comments, were fully justified.
    That to me sounded like an apology followed by a statement that you thought your rudeness was just fine and dandy.

    I wasn't referring to the AIDS argument. I saw that and noted your personal interest in that particular topic, which might have shed light on your treatment of that member. I was referring to your arguments with Jenny and Mr. Hyde and also your recent confrontations with kiki. You become very abrupt and insulting when confronted with viewpoints you disagree with, and it's childish and uncalled for. Not one of these posters has attacked you personally, yet you resort to snark.

    I think the correlations between your views and my contentions are self-evident. I will repeat for the umpteenth time that most of the developed world has instituted the kinds of measures Obama is likely to take sans the demise of capitalism. Your argument was, as I understand it, that these measures are the potential first steps to its demise. Do you see the relationship now or must I repeat myself again?
    Last edited by flickad; 11-09-2008 at 04:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
    Is it the way I talk that causes you to have a problem understanding me? I didn't apologize in that quote ... I did the exact opposite and explained why I felt justified in not apologizing.

    As for my negative, offensive, threatened, berating attitude (whatever you choose to label it) ... oh well. I have a serious problem with people who attempt to sound intelligent and well informed on an internet website and then miss the most obvious correlations (or complete lack of) between my views and their arguments against said views. If you took the time to read my older posts, you might be pleasantly surprised that I got irritated and frustrated with an individual that continually argued against documented AIDs and HIV percentages in America and the growth rate of those percentages. Even after being shown proof (direct links), she continued to argue.

    If you are wondering how I could remember way back then without looking back to see (I assure you ... I didn't), it is because it is a very sensitive subject to me and her attitude and our subsequent arguments were so out of the ordinary that I still remember it.

    As for our little debate (yours and mine), you continue to take a tiny piece of the pie, taste it, and then tell me how great the entire meal was when you ate nothing more than the bite of pie. Then you wonder why I get agitated and confrontational ... ?



    Funny. I've probably met more black preachers than most and I've never met a single one that could be considered as represented by Rev. Wright. As a matter of fact, I'd be willing to wager that I've met many that would be absolutely furious if even compared to him. Rev. Wright does not preach religion ... he preaches hate, he peddles hate, and he thrives on hate. Rev Wright is a hate monger and he uses racism as his platform ... He ranks right up there with Al Sharpton as being a broker, provoker, and beneficiary of racial hate.

    I've never met the man. I've never sat through one of his sermons. I have, however, read a few of them and even caught glimpses of him at his finest. That was far more than enough ...



    Where did I say that America had good moral standing? Where did I say that? I'll help you out on this one: I didn't.

    So because school is mandatory, we should not balk at anything that the government decides to make mandatory ... as long as it has something that could be considered positive associated with it?

    Brilliant! So you won't mind being forced (read: mandatory) to join the military (everyone must serve) and being sent to Afghanistan? It has a good associated with it: it would teach people how to work together and get along and maybe even offer them an alternative career path!

    You make no sense whatsoever. You claim that because one thing has an associated positive attached ... then everything that has an associated positive attached must also be good. Wow.

    Narcissus
    i dont care how many preachers youve met. you are not privy to their innermost thoughts and feelings. you do not have the experience of being a black man in america, and could not possibly understand the psychological effects of it.
    rev. wright is scary to yall because he says what everyone else is feeling.

    funny that obama, a decent christian man came from the church of a hate monger!!! and funny that people keep going to his church. are they all hate mongers too? well damn where are the riots, because there are plenty of poor black people who attend his church.

    if he is the ringleader why hasnt chicago burned to the ground yet?
    as a matter of fact, why havent many cities burned to the ground, because ive heard many sermons just like the infamous one from rev. wright? are they all hate mongers? oh no! maybe i should just be presbyterian!

    i never said, you said america is in good moral standing. i said that you insinuated that parents are doing a good job of raising their children without help from the government.
    first of all that cant be done, because the government is a part of everything we do, if it's obvious or not. second, they are not. the morals of our country are in the shitter.
    btw, i dont think one is as likely to get blown up while they work at an animal shelter for an hour a week as they are halfway around the world in a warzone while on a 2 year tour of duty. yea thats the same thing.
    "We are the coolest mothafuckas on the planet....The sky is fallin ain't no need to panic"... -Outkast

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    That to me sounded like an apology followed by a statement that you thought your rudeness was just fine and dandy.
    How that even remotely sounded like an apology to you is difficult for me to fathom, but whatever. Mistakes happen so that is moot.

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    I wasn't referring to the AIDS argument. I saw that and noted that you did not resort to personal slights in that particular instance. I was referring to your arguments with Jenny and Mr. Hyde and also your recent confrontations with kiki. You become very abrupt and insulting when confronted with viewpoints you disagree with, and it's childish and uncalled for. Not one of these posters has attacked you personally, yet you resort to snark.
    Funny, yet I seem to recall that you had already made a reference to my personal slights before any real confrontation with kiki began. To now reference them ... bah, nevermind. Who cares? I don't. Simply put: if I sound childish and snarky in my frustrated replies then I simply point to my inability to deal well with those aforementioned types of people. Which .... brings me to yet my next point:

    I've done a bit of background reading on you as well (thought I would return the favor). I've noticed that you also seem to have a propensity to, shall we say, disagree disagreeably often. I have also noticed that your choice of words took a decidedly more eloquent form recently. Interesting, don't you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    I think the correlations between your views and my contentions are self-evident. I will repeat for the umpteenth time that most of the developed world has instituted the kinds of measures Obama is likely to take sans the demise of capitalism. Your argument was, as I understand it, that these measures are the potential first steps to its demise. Do you see the relationship now or must I repeat myself again?
    Listen as I explain this once again. The concept is not that difficult to grasp. My whole premise is based around Obama's early influences/teachings and the striking resemblance of his career to those influences/teachings ... it does not stop at wealth redistribution at its current proposed level.

    You, as some people must, are forced to break my argument down and then pick a segment, make it representative of my entire premise, and then throw wildly misrepresentative examples at it. Then, as now, you make marked comments about ... and I quote "I think the correlations between your views and my contentions are self-evident."

    You have yet to say anything that holds any merit or substance beyond showing that redistribution of wealth doesn't cause a collapse of all things capitalistic ... which was never and has never been stated by me. I said that moving to a social platform that includes redistribution of wealth moves us farther away from true capitalism, which was true.

    You have done nothing and proven nothing that is any way in contention to my original (or subsequent) post(s).

    Is that simple enough for you?

    Narcissus

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
    I've done a bit of background reading on you as well (thought I would return the favor). I've noticed that you also seem to have a propensity to, shall we say, disagree disagreeably often. I have also noticed that your choice of words took a decidedly more eloquent form recently. Interesting, don't you think?
    I'm not sure what you're referring to, I don't think my level of eloquence has changed at all. Would you care to spell out your implications?

    As to disagreeing, I enjoy political debate and happen to have different views from many on these forums. I don't think that disagreement as such is disagreeable. Indeed, I believe debate, particularly political debate is a healthy thing and a cornerstone of a free society (and is subject to constitutional protection from governmental interference in both our countries). I have never made my points impolitely or personally insulted someone with whom I've disagreed. Your use of the word 'disagreeable' with respect to divergences of opinion is telling.



    Listen as I explain this once again. The concept is not that difficult to grasp. My whole premise is based around Obama's early influences/teachings and the striking resemblance of his career to those influences/teachings ... it does not stop at wealth redistribution at its current proposed level.

    You, as some people must, are forced to break my argument down and then pick a segment, make it representative of my entire premise, and then throw wildly misrepresentative examples at it. Then, as now, you make marked comments about ... and I quote "I think the correlations between your views and my contentions are self-evident."

    You have yet to say anything that holds any merit or substance beyond showing that redistribution of wealth doesn't cause a collapse of all things capitalistic ... which was never and has never been stated by me. I said that moving to a social platform that includes redistribution of wealth moves us farther away from true capitalism, which was true.

    You have done nothing and proven nothing that is any way in contention to my original (or subsequent) post(s).

    Is that simple enough for you?

    Narcissus
    On the main you used the term 'capitalism' as opposed to 'true capitalism' (which I would take to mean capitalism without modifications). Using the latter term, I would agree that any redistribution of wealth is a step away from capitalism in its purest of forms. So are child labour laws and various other regulatory measures that have been instituted since Dickens' day. As you did not qualify your argument, I thought that my contention was pertinent.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by kikidejavu View Post
    i dont care how many preachers youve met. you are not privy to their innermost thoughts and feelings. you do not have the experience of being a black man in america, and could not possibly understand the psychological effects of it.
    rev. wright is scary to yall because he says what everyone else is feeling.

    funny that obama, a decent christian man came from the church of a hate monger!!! and funny that people keep going to his church. are they all hate mongers too? well damn where are the riots, because there are plenty of poor black people who attend his church.

    if he is the ringleader why hasnt chicago burned to the ground yet?
    as a matter of fact, why havent many cities burned to the ground, because ive heard many sermons just like the infamous one from rev. wright? are they all hate mongers? oh no! maybe i should just be presbyterian!

    i never said, you said america is in good moral standing. i said that you insinuated that parents are doing a good job of raising their children without help from the government.
    first of all that cant be done, because the government is a part of everything we do, if it's obvious or not. second, they are not. the morals of our country are in the shitter.
    btw, i dont think one is as likely to get blown up while they work at an animal shelter for an hour a week as they are halfway around the world in a warzone while on a 2 year tour of duty. yea thats the same thing.
    Gimme a break! I can't know what a black man could feel deep down inside because I'm not black? What the hell? Shit like that is what keeps racism alive in this country.

    By the way ... ""rev. wright is scary to yall because he says what everyone else is feeling."" ... had I made a comment like that, in reference to a white preacher ... you would be screaming at the top of your lungs about racism and bigotry. Reverse racism/bigotry FTW!

    Rev Wright isn't scary to me, just so you will know. He is a disgusting piece of wasted protoplasm that takes advantage of the black community. I despise him for what he is, but have no fear of him. Why the fuck would I fear him? Because he preaches hate against me?

    You assume that Obama is a decent christian man ... yet after listening to that fruit loop, how can you be so sure? He couldn't have been listening very well as he claims to have never heard any of Rev. Wrights hate mongering in how many years ...

    Oh! Maybe that means that he couldn't be a good christian because he wasn't listening while at church! Oooooh!

    Roflmao ... give me a break!

    You apparently missed the fact that I was being facetious about the 'going to Afghanistan' thing. It was a mocking representation of your line of thinking. :shakes head:

    I also never said that I thought parents were doing a good job at raising their children. Great job at assuming something when you can't figure out what I mean!

    I think parents are doing a horrid job at raising their children ... I was saying that regardless, it is not the governments job to teach our children responsibility and what good moral values are. That is not what a government is for. It is the job of the parents ...

    If you hate the way children are raised these days, why not blame their lousy piece of shit parents and put blame where it is highly deserved rather than building a solution to the results of a differing problem. News flash, this is the wrong way to think: why take a nail out of my hand when I can just take some asprin and stop hurting. Brilliant!

    Narcissus

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    I'm not sure what you're referring to, I don't think my level of eloquence has changed at all. Would you care to spell out your implications?
    Y - O - U - R
    I - M - P - L - I - C - A - T - I - O -N - S - ?

    Sorry, I had to do that. Obama made me do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    As to disagreeing, I enjoy political debate and happen to have different views from many on these forums. I don't think that disagreement as such is disagreeable. Indeed, I believe debate, particularly political debate is a healthy thing and a cornerstone of a free society (and is subject to constitutional protection from governmental interference in both our countries). I have never made my points impolitely or personally insulted someone with whom I've disagreed. Your use of the word 'disagreeable' with respect to divergences of opinion is telling.
    Do you hear the mangled stuff you are saying? Seriously? My use of the word 'disagreeable' with respect to divergences of opinion is telling? Stop. Seriously. You are one of the most annoying posters I've ever had the misfortune of reading.

    You state about how you are all about political debate and how excellent it is ... yet five?, ten? posts into debating my opinion and you still haven't even touched on what my opinion is? You chose a few select pieces of what I said, used grossly unrepresentative examples to attack it, then have puffed out your chest and represented yourself as the winner of a debate.

    Hey there ... we haven't debated anything except your ill concieved notion of a debunking argument ... which was still wrong of its own merits. Hello? Are you reading the words that I am typing?

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    On the main you used the term 'capitalism' as opposed to 'true capitalism' (which I would take to mean capitalism without modifications). Using the latter term, I would agree that any redistribution of wealth is a step away from capitalism in its purest of forms. So are child labour laws and various other regulatory measures that have been instituted since Dickens' day. As you did not qualify your argument, I thought that my contention was pertinent.
    I must say this: you will make an excellent lawyer if your ability to becloud spoken words is anywhere near the equal to your written ability. You make insipid, vapid comments and then boast at your success. What the heck is wrong here? Either I am confusing you, you are confusing you, or you are enjoying this. Sheesh.

    Narcissus

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    Featured Member flickad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
    Y - O - U - R
    I - M - P - L - I - C - A - T - I - O -N - S - ?

    Sorry, I had to do that. Obama made me do it.
    Very droll *eyeroll*.


    Do you hear the mangled stuff you are saying? Seriously? My use of the word 'disagreeable' with respect to divergences of opinion is telling? Stop. Seriously. You are one of the most annoying posters I've ever had the misfortune of reading.
    I think it is telling, when coupled with your belittling of anyone who happens to express an opinion different from your own. To be frank, I find you a rather irritating individual myself, though you might note that this hasn't resulted in loss of temper or flinging insults.

    You state about how you are all about political debate and how excellent it is ... yet five?, ten? posts into debating my opinion and you still haven't even touched on what my opinion is? You chose a few select pieces of what I said, used grossly unrepresentative examples to attack it, then have puffed out your chest and represented yourself as the winner of a debate.

    Hey there ... we haven't debated anything except your ill concieved notion of a debunking argument ... which was still wrong of its own merits. Hello? Are you reading the words that I am typing?
    Since you didn't bother to state what you actually meant (ie that you were referring to untramelled capitalism as opposed to the popular notion of capitalism), I addressed my contentions on my assumption that you meant the latter.

    I never puffed out my chest or referred to myself as the winner. Sure, I didn't refer to every nuance of the points you made. I referred, instead, to their thrust- that Obama's promised reforms formed part of a bigger picture that was a threat to capitalism as America knows it. I'm entitled to decide which points I will take issue with and which I will not, just as you are.


    must say this: you will make an excellent lawyer if your ability to becloud spoken words is anywhere near the equal to your written ability. You make insipid, vapid comments and then boast at your success. What the heck is wrong here?
    Boast at my success? Show me where I did that. I stated that I'd thought my argument was pertinent, based on your contention before you placed a qualification on it, but that's hardly a boast.

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    Veteran Member kikidejavu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
    Gimme a break! I can't know what a black man could feel deep down inside because I'm not black? What the hell? Shit like that is what keeps racism alive in this country.

    By the way ... ""rev. wright is scary to yall because he says what everyone else is feeling."" ... had I made a comment like that, in reference to a white preacher ... you would be screaming at the top of your lungs about racism and bigotry. Reverse racism/bigotry FTW!

    Rev Wright isn't scary to me, just so you will know. He is a disgusting piece of wasted protoplasm that takes advantage of the black community. I despise him for what he is, but have no fear of him. Why the fuck would I fear him? Because he preaches hate against me?

    You assume that Obama is a decent christian man ... yet after listening to that fruit loop, how can you be so sure? He couldn't have been listening very well as he claims to have never heard any of Rev. Wrights hate mongering in how many years ...

    Oh! Maybe that means that he couldn't be a good christian because he wasn't listening while at church! Oooooh!

    Roflmao ... give me a break!

    You apparently missed the fact that I was being facetious about the 'going to Afghanistan' thing. It was a mocking representation of your line of thinking. :shakes head:

    I also never said that I thought parents were doing a good job at raising their children. Great job at assuming something when you can't figure out what I mean!

    I think parents are doing a horrid job at raising their children ... I was saying that regardless, it is not the governments job to teach our children responsibility and what good moral values are. That is not what a government is for. It is the job of the parents ...

    If you hate the way children are raised these days, why not blame their lousy piece of shit parents and put blame where it is highly deserved rather than building a solution to the results of a differing problem. News flash, this is the wrong way to think: why take a nail out of my hand when I can just take some asprin and stop hurting. Brilliant!

    Narcissus
    no you naive little boy.
    you cannot know what it is like to be black.
    you can never know.you naive, naive, little boy. if you think you can know for one second what it feels like to live in a country that is not yours,
    then you are far more ignorant than i originally believed. im quite offended that you think you can channel our experiences.
    wow.
    also i was referring to people who were upset by rev. wright, not white people. many people are scared of him. anger is another form of fear.

    i think you fail to realize how deep this whole this goes. for you, its politics. for black people it is a deeply personal and psychological experience that goes with seeing a black man at the head of a country that we simply inhabit.
    and no you cannot understand it. your best bet is to know your ignorance, and find ways to work around it. the most ignorant man is one who does not know of his ignorance.

    once again i shall repeat, that i never said you thought parents were doing a good job. im not going to keep repeating myself to you this is the third time ive typed this same sentence.
    you insinuated that they could be raised without the input of the government. parents are not doing well. therefore it would be great if the government could step in a teach them a little community service, not take over their lives, or raise them, just teach them a little empathy for others

    .if its not the governments job, and the parents are slacking, then should we just accept selfish, lazy, unsympathetic children? no. we can try to instill a little bit of american values in them. namely community service.

    also you are rude. you must have never taken a debate, or philosphy class. you need to look up the correct way to argue, since we are telling each other what to do. inductive and deductive reasoning. while youre there check out an article or two on white privilege, and the effects of the slave mentality.
    btw. you are the one who chose to liken community service to Afghanistan. i was just going along with your idiocrity, thinking maybe i was speaking in terms that you would understand.
    ive never heard any hate mongering from my preachers either. i call it venting frustrations.
    "We are the coolest mothafuckas on the planet....The sky is fallin ain't no need to panic"... -Outkast

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by kikidejavu View Post
    no you naive little boy.
    you cannot know what it is like to be black.
    you can never know.you naive, naive, little boy. if you think you can know for one second what it feels like to live in a country that is not yours,
    then you are far more ignorant than i originally believed. im quite offended that you think you can channel our experiences.
    wow.
    also i was referring to people who were upset by rev. wright, not white people. many people are scared of him. anger is another form of fear.

    i think you fail to realize how deep this whole this goes. for you, its politics. for black people it is a deeply personal and psychological experience that goes with seeing a black man at the head of a country that we simply inhabit.
    and no you cannot understand it. your best bet is to know your ignorance, and find ways to work around it. the most ignorant man is one who does not know of his ignorance.

    once again i shall repeat, that i never said you thought parents were doing a good job. im not going to keep repeating myself to you this is the third time ive typed this same sentence.
    you insinuated that they could be raised without the input of the government. parents are not doing well. therefore it would be great if the government could step in a teach them a little community service, not take over their lives, or raise them, just teach them a little empathy for others

    .if its not the governments job, and the parents are slacking, then should we just accept selfish, lazy, unsympathetic children? no. we can try to instill a little bit of american values in them. namely community service.

    also you are rude. you must have never taken a debate, or philosphy class. you need to look up the correct way to argue, since we are telling each other what to do. inductive and deductive reasoning. while youre there check out an article or two on white privilege, and the effects of the slave mentality.
    btw. you are the one who chose to liken community service to Afghanistan. i was just going along with your idiocrity, thinking maybe i was speaking in terms that you would understand.
    ive never heard any hate mongering from my preachers either. i call it venting frustrations.
    Quote Originally Posted by above quote
    i never said you thought parents were doing a good job.
    Quote Originally Posted by kikidejavu View Post
    i never said, you said america is in good moral standing. i said that you insinuated that parents are doing a good job of raising their children without help from the government.
    Anything else you'd like to add? Heeh.



    As far as the race woes ... give me a fucking break. I'm so sick of this 'chip on my shoulder' bullshit mentality.

    There is racism in this country, I acknowledge that. There is bigotry in this country, I acknowledge that as well. However, it is nowhere near as mainstream or prolific as it is made out to be.

    Do I 'know' what it is like to be a black man who was once a slave? Nope, and neither do you. Do I 'know' what it is like to be a black man whose parents were once slaves? Nope, and neither do you. Do I 'know' what it is like to be a black man whose grandparents were once slaves? Nope, and neither do you.

    Enough is enough. Get off the damn soapbox. I've never owned a slave, my parents never owned a slave, my grandparents never owned a slave, etc ... why in hell are you force-feeding me a spoonful of guilt? Why should I feel guilty because of something that less than ten percent of whites did back in the annals of U.S. history? Why should I feel sorry for you, or the anonymous 'black man' that was abused years and years ago?

    I'm partly American Indian ... should I decry the woes I suffer because of the mass murdering and theft done to them?

    You can make all the fallacious claims that you want as to why, as a race, black Americans are so poverty stricken ... or why such a huge percentage of black males are in prison ... or whatever. The facts are easy to find ... statistics don't lie and you have the power of the web at your fingertips. Racism: not a factor. That huge chip on your shoulder: I think we are getting warmer.

    You can scream that I'm racist at the top of your lungs if that makes you feel better, although since I have anonymity (it is just the internet) I would easily be able to admit if I were ... however, I'm not. I fear that you won't believe that or take me at face value due to that enormous chip on your shoulder. So be it.

    I spent a large portion of my youth growing up in predominantly black neighborhoods, so no one can tell me that I don't know what it is like. No one.

    My family was poor. Dirt poor. I distinctly remember when we finally moved into a trailer from a shit-hole apartment ... and how ecstatic we were.

    I remember getting my ass laughed at in class because I couldn't qualify for a third of the loans, grants, and scholarships that my classmates could. You know when the school councilor comes into class and explains about scholarships and such. Why? I had great grades, but because my parents both had jobs, I'm white, and I'm male ... I was fucked. That, my friend, is racism.

    Every time that I turn on the t.v. and run past B.E.T., I get irritated. Why? Because there is no way at all I could start a station called W.E.T., could I?

    Every time I'm around any blacks outside of my close friends, I have to watch what I say. I can't use a simple term like 'boy' without fear of a racially charged accusation.

    Racism and bigotry easily goes both ways. For you to sit there and treat me like an errant child and explain to me that I don't know and can't know what it is like is a load of shit.

    Thanks to white guilt (mostly our own fault), political correctness, and a heaping dose of reverse racism ... I probably know better than you do.

    I spent far too much time growing up around blacks to not know that they are far more racist blacks than whites ... but that is always denied or avoided. That chip on your shoulder that tells you I owe you something because I'm white is a load of it. Then shit like this comes up and someone, inevitably, cries race. Pfft.

    Maybe I can start a group, white men only ... and we can call it '100 white men'. What? That would be racist? But what about the '100 black men', huh?

    How would you have reacted if that mannequin (I think it was in San Fran) depicting Sarah Palin being hung ... had been black and was intended to represent Obama? Oh ... then it would've been a race issue. Even though whites were hung as well, back in the day ...

    The racial compass in this country has taken a sharp direction change, but you refuse to see that because then you would have nothing to bemoan.

    A large portion of supposed racism I've witnessed has had the same consistency of warm, moist air ... no matter how hard you try and grab it, it just isn't there. The few instances where I have heard of anything outright racial has been at clubs and made by guys showing out and the like. Rarely is it more than mere words ... usually it has no hate or malice behind it. Yet I've also seen the opposite (far more often) of girls calling customers racist because they wanted a white girl riding their lap rather than them.

    Get over it. You subscribe to a zealot racism hate monger like Rev Wright, but I am unable to understand what it is like to see bigotry aimed at me?

    Think about it ... not that I suspect you will do anything more than rave at my 'ignorance' and or 'racist views' etc. Believe what you will ...

    Narcissus

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    The Department of Education is prohibited by statute from making graduation requirements or requiring any specific program of studies.

    Try to relax.
    If I give all I have to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love; I gain nothing. Paul’s 1st Letter, 13th Chapter

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    ^^^ Exactly! This may be mandatory for kids in public school, but MOST high schools and many middle schools already require volunteer hours as a condition for graduation. What Obama is proposing is making government tuition help available for university students who are willing to trade their time and help to earn the extra money. And since most driven college students volunteer anyway for grad school or transfer reasons, I think it's an awesome plan.

    There's too much scare-mongering going on.

    And because this is Member Boards: Narcissus, your name suits you and please stop being a cunt.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post

    Do I 'know' what it is like to be a black man who was once a slave? Nope, and neither do you. Do I 'know' what it is like to be a black man whose parents were once slaves? Nope, and neither do you. Do I 'know' what it is like to be a black man whose grandparents were once slaves? Nope, and neither do you.

    Enough is enough. Get off the damn soapbox. I've never owned a slave, my parents never owned a slave, my grandparents never owned a slave, etc ... why in hell are you force-feeding me a spoonful of guilt? Why should I feel guilty because of something that less than ten percent of whites did back in the annals of U.S. history? Why should I feel sorry for you, or the anonymous 'black man' that was abused years and years ago?


    Thanks to white guilt (mostly our own fault), political correctness, and a heaping dose of reverse racism ... I probably know better than you do.

    I spent far too much time growing up around blacks to not know that they are far more racist blacks than whites ... but that is always denied or avoided. That chip on your shoulder that tells you I owe you something because I'm white is a load of it. Then shit like this comes up and someone, inevitably, cries race. Pfft.

    Narcissus
    You very obviously do not get it. Racial subjugation goes much further than slavery. Have you studied history? (Since you're being a condescending bitch, I will too.) Jim Crow laws were around until 1965. That's only about 40 years ago, and there are plenty of disillusioned black Americans still around who have felt their sting.

    Jim Crow laws = we brought you here against your will, raped your women, tortured you, almost eradicated your native culture, finally freed you, but now we don't want anything to do with you. Essentially, "You, blacks, are not GOOD enough for white America."

    Only until quite recently has there been a true shift in racial mentality, especially since younger generations are being exposed to more and more (unfortunately frequently stereotypical) images of blacks in the media, etc.

    Any way you want to cut the pie, there is something that still exists and will continue to exist unless blacks are no longer the minority. This is called white privilege. Unavoidable, not necessarily malicious, many times subconscious, white privilege is the fact that I am white and in a world where the majority of people look like me (albeit on a superficial level), I have an advantage. Whether driven by racism or not, humans naturally tend to associate themselves with people that look like them.

    If you read any of the threads in hustle hut about mirroring, you'll see a taste of how this works. When I go for a job interview or go apartment-hunting, I subconsciously earn a bit of trust whether I mean to or not. You could say that that would work against me if I wanted to work for an all-black company or live in an all-black apartment complex. However, since I am white, I have so many options with white companies that I don't even have to put myself in that position. By and large, black Americans looking to integrate or move up in the corporate world are forced to put themselves at this disadvantage.

    If you try to pull your simplistic "white guilt" accusations on me, my intelligence will be insulted. My heart does sympathize with the past and less frequent/abhorrent current injustices done to the black community, but my head is capable enough to understand the issues that do linger as a result of such inhumanity.

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    Senior Member Jabba_WTF?'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul in Saudi View Post
    The Department of Education is prohibited by statute from making graduation requirements or requiring any specific program of studies.

    Try to relax.



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    Veteran Member kikidejavu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    ^^ never once did i say you were a racist. i said you were ignorant.
    besides that, if you think racism is limited to overt racism such as being called the n word, or being turned down for a job, clearly for your race, you are sadly mkistaken.
    white people always say oh im not racist, i would never call anyone the n word. yet they clutch their purse in the elevator with a black man. and im not talking a thug type. im talking a black man in a suit and tie, who works in their office.
    oh thats just how is was raised!
    do some research. know what youre talking about.
    am i supposed to feel sorry for you because you were poor? whoop de doo.

    like i said read up on the slave mentality. it has nothing to do with having been, or knowing slaves. obviously i was not a slave. duh. thats not why im mad.
    it has to do with the mentality that has been passed down through the generations.
    do your research before you speak on something you have no idea about.
    ex. why do most black people whup their kids, where as most white people has "moved past" that?
    because when there were slaves, the only way they had ever discipline was through violence. and sadly if they did not discipline their kids, their master's punishment would be much worse, than a simple whuppin'.
    what does that have to do with now?
    because of this. i whup my kids because my parents whupped me, and i came out just fine.
    i whup my kids because my parents whupped me, and i came out fine,
    i whup my kids because my parents whupped me and i came out fine,
    i whup my kids because my parents whupped me, and i came out fine......
    all the way down the generations to today.
    even though it's well documented that whupping causes aggression in children.
    now why havent they just stopped?
    because most black people are not higher educated. they may have heard on tv once or twice that they shouldnt whup their kids, but it can easily be attributed to "thats something that white people do"
    higher educated people are aware of the studies, and know that they could be causing more harm than good to their kids.
    most blacks live in areas where everyone they know has grown up being whupped, and they came out "fine".
    not realizing they are creating aggresion in their kids that is often the cause of acting up in school, and an underlying cause for violence.
    my point is that racism is so much more than overt racism.
    you dont have to agree with me, but you should realize there is far more going on, then what one can see as an outsider.
    once again, do some research before you respond, so you wont sound stupid. "i cant know whats it's like to be a black man?" HA! no you cant.
    you can know whats its like to be poor. two different things.
    I think im just about done with you N. your ignorance insults and angers me.
    it just reminds me of the discord between people living in the same country.
    "We are the coolest mothafuckas on the planet....The sky is fallin ain't no need to panic"... -Outkast

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    Veteran Member Lady's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Forcing kids to do community service will most likly NOT result a better kinder nation of the next generation. give me a breeak. It wil probably give kids an excuse to get out of legitimate classes to go play monopoly with their grandma.
    All this is is a small step to the gov having more control over our lives. Personally, I dont want the gov to have all that control over my life. I understand that it is needed in some areas, but this is most definitly not one of them.
    What if the gov forced parents to bring their kids to religious places because it made them better people! It isnt the gov job to make us better ppl. Its the gov job to protect the rights of its citizens.
    The more mandatory things that the gov imposes on us the less 'free' we are, hence drawing away from the entire america premise as a 'free' country.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    as far as white people not knowing what its like to be black, ok whatever, and you dont knwo what it is like to be white, and niether group knows what it is like to be latino, and men dont know what it is like to be women and women dont know what it is like to be me. the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, right?
    everyone should completly stop blamin ganything on their sex, race, religion. If you ahve a disadvantage, suck it up. Deal with it. You dont hear one legged ppl constantly screaming that they dont have it as good as two legged people. they suck it up and make the most out of it.
    If you feel your are underprivlaged or cant do something becase of your race. Why dont you do somehting about it. Yeah, it might be alittle harder for you than others, but bitching isnt going to change anything. Just suck it up and get what you want and stop feeling sorry for your self.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    This whole page = TL ; DR

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    Veteran Member Lady's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    i dont know what TL or DR is. Im serious.

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady View Post
    as far as white people not knowing what its like to be black, ok whatever, and you dont knwo what it is like to be white, and niether group knows what it is like to be latino, and men dont know what it is like to be women and women dont know what it is like to be me. the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, right?
    everyone should completly stop blamin ganything on their sex, race, religion. If you ahve a disadvantage, suck it up. Deal with it. You dont hear one legged ppl constantly screaming that they dont have it as good as two legged people. they suck it up and make the most out of it.
    If you feel your are underprivlaged or cant do something becase of your race. Why dont you do somehting about it. Yeah, it might be alittle harder for you than others, but bitching isnt going to change anything. Just suck it up and get what you want and stop feeling sorry for your self.
    you are irrelevant. dont jump in on an argument, when you didnt read all the posts. no one is complaining about how hard life is. i was informing nar. on things he clearly knows nothing about, although he thinks he does. i made no complaints at all, because i am quite proactive in changing my destiny. it is quite frustrating when people think they know something that they dont.
    "We are the coolest mothafuckas on the planet....The sky is fallin ain't no need to panic"... -Outkast

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    Default Re: Obama plans instute forced servitude

    wow .. just wow

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