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Thread: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    I figured there are a lot of feelings out there right now, and without bringing race into the subject, (there are plenty of other threads to discuss that topic) what are your hopes/ fears of what the administration plans on doing.

    I'll start:

    Fears:
    Upheaval of the old guard causing impasse in any legislation
    Our enemies attacking
    Undermining the Presidency from the inside

    Hopes:
    Have a congress that actually gets something done!
    Better education for our children
    Better reputation in the world


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    Default Re: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    Is this about fear of any democrat president or a direct Obama administration?

    My fears of a regular democrat president are the same as most peoples:
    Larger government.
    Increased taxes.
    Military strength (or lack of).
    Extreme liberal policies.
    Pussification (fear of conflict).
    Appointment of extreme liberal judges (SC).
    No checks and balances (dems have control of the whole show atm).

    My hopes:
    Higher scholastic standards (never seems to happen).
    Increase in world opinion of USA.
    Better diplomacy.
    Less global antagonism.
    Smaller chance of hearing the pres say 'nucular'. (sp?)


    If we are talking about Obama's administration directly ... my answers change a lot.

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    Default Re: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    hopes:
    Do what he said, get out of Iraq, and go hard in Afghanistan...we (Canada) have a strong interest in achieving a good conclusion in that country.
    Lighten up on the border stuff...we need to move goods and people through quicker.
    Working together on the climate in a meaningful way.
    That's enough for now.

    fears:
    No fears. Whatever happens, happens.

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    Default Re: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    Obama's election will not have a direct effect on my country, as our government has promised to pull out of Iraq anyways. However, my hope for the American people is that they will receive health care and the necessities of life if they can't provide these for themselves. I hope that racial barriers fall away.

    My fears are mainly economy-based and have little to do with who's in office as I imagine the current troubles will continue for some time regardless of what is done. I expect the recession to be deep.

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    Default Re: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    I figured there are a lot of feelings out there right now, and without bringing race into the subject, (there are plenty of other threads to discuss that topic) what are your hopes/ fears of what the administration plans on doing.

    I'll start:

    Fears:
    Upheaval of the old guard causing impasse in any legislation
    Our enemies attacking
    Undermining the Presidency from the inside

    Hopes:
    Have a congress that actually gets something done!
    Better education for our children
    Better reputation in the world
    (To be optimistic I'll start with the goods)
    Hopes:
    1) That he'll fairly raise taxes.
    Yes, I think taxes on some should be raised. Not just on those making $250K per year.
    2) Hope that he will step up and help Israel if they should need it, as well as any other nation that needs it.
    3) He seems like the kind of person that wont allow FEMA level disorganization.

    Fears:
    1) I feel like he will allow any nation to attack Israel, w/o helping them if they are not the agressors.
    2) I get the feeling he's not going to "spread the wealth" of his rich supporters like Barbra Streisand and Susan Sarandon.
    3) I dont think he's going to be able to stem the unemployment tide.
    It's going to be more costly for larger companies to stay in the US,
    making many of them move from the country and costing us more jobs.
    4) The congress that has been controlled by dems for two years now will still refuse to work with republicans.
    5) The majority of reps in Congress will continue to not work with dems.<-Notice the 2-way BS...

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    Default Re: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    Hopes:
    - Improved global reutation
    - Increased focus on diplomacy
    - Sensible tax plan to ease the deficit
    - Reforms to our seriously ailing educational system
    - Another liberal judge on the SC would be nice

    Fears:
    - Attacks based on perceptions of weakness
    - Unwise government spending before the deficit/economy has the chance to heal. I hope they don't try to even touch providing uni. health care for at least a few years. Reforms to the system might have a better cost-to-effectiveness ratio in the meantime, though.
    - Instead of the GOP getting drunk on power, Dems taking over
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    Default Re: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    How can anyone say Obama gives them hope for improvement in the US educational system?

    The problem with the reform is the reform itself, and a lot of it comes straight out of Chicago from groups he's been associated with. I've been teaching nearly two decades and each year the liberal reforms get more and more ridiculous and the students get weaker. The whole "Yes, we can" mantra of his campaign comes straight from the educational reform movement where the kids qare told they can be anything they want to be but are not told they have to work for it. They actually have a theory called "socialized intelligence" where they believe if you tell the students they are smart, they'll eventually become smart. Meanwhile, I continue teaching pre-cal to kids who can't subtract and think they're going to be engineers.

    What the system needs to do is gp back to the basics and hold the students accountable for the work. Nowadays, the students expect to be able to re-take tests if they don't like the outcome, which is poor preparation for the real world. Tracking is also a good thing to have. None of the private schools around here would think of abandoning tracking.

    I guess the reforms are fairer though than the old system. Previously, the system screwed over some people. Now it screws over everyone.
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    Default Re: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    Previously, the system screwed over some people. Now it screws over everyone.
    That's the basis of my fear as it applies to economics as well as to education. In the end, Obama's 'share the wealth' plan will wind up screwing over everyone except the very rich. And the very rich will escape the consequences in the same manner ... by being able to afford to 'opt out' of the flawed system, either via paying private school tuition or by purchasing $1 million partner shares in tax favored subsidized profit alternative energy companies.

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    Default Re: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    How can anyone say Obama gives them hope for improvement in the US educational system?

    The problem with the reform is the reform itself, and a lot of it comes straight out of Chicago from groups he's been associated with. I've been teaching nearly two decades and each year the liberal reforms get more and more ridiculous and the students get weaker. The whole "Yes, we can" mantra of his campaign comes straight from the educational reform movement where the kids qare told they can be anything they want to be but are not told they have to work for it. They actually have a theory called "socialized intelligence" where they believe if you tell the students they are smart, they'll eventually become smart. Meanwhile, I continue teaching pre-cal to kids who can't subtract and think they're going to be engineers.

    What the system needs to do is gp back to the basics and hold the students accountable for the work. Nowadays, the students expect to be able to re-take tests if they don't like the outcome, which is poor preparation for the real world. Tracking is also a good thing to have. None of the private schools around here would think of abandoning tracking.
    He talks about his plans for education reform in his books. He plans to try to more or less do away with standardized tests, which are what have seemed to lower the educational standards in the first place.

    Also, he wants to have the teaching profession pay-by-performance, rather than granting tenure to crappy teachers which is what is attracted with crappy salaries.
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    Default Re: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    Quote Originally Posted by LizardQueen View Post
    He talks about his plans for education reform in his books. He plans to try to more or less do away with standardized tests, which are what have seemed to lower the educational standards in the first place.

    Also, he wants to have the teaching profession pay-by-performance, rather than granting tenure to crappy teachers which is what is attracted with crappy salaries.
    Let me get this straight. Standardized tests make the kids dumb?
    Standardized tests just show how dumb the kids are. Under the current reforms, we ( teachers ) are told to 'teach to the test" by administration. The reforms in place originate out of Chicago and I have seen the names Annenberg, Small Schools Initiative, and William Ayres on literature in workshops I've been forced to attend ( obama has ties to all of these ). Meanwhile, the scores just keep going down and down and down.

    Merit pay sounds good in principle but would never work. Who determines who deserves what pay? The most incompetemnt people in my school department are the administators. It's called "screw up and move up". Teacher salaries in my area are fine. Most people would say we are overpaid. While i wouldn't go that far, I won't complain either.
    Last edited by bem401; 11-10-2008 at 07:14 AM.
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    Default Re: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    ^^ Standardized testing associated with federal school funding promotes teaching for the test only. Such directed teaching does not serve education well. Pretty simple concept.

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    Default Re: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    Students do poorly on the standardized tests because they don't affect students at all, so they don't care. I was one of those kids who tried hard on the school-wide PSAT since I knew it was practice for a test that would be important for college, and I scored in the 95th percentile.

    On Standardized tests that didn't cover my favorite subject, I couldn't be bothered to give a shit and my mom would always be appalled at my scores. When classes are only geared toward bullshit tests that have low standards anyway, students have no motivation to bother learning the course material, especially when it's relatively easy to do well in school and get to college with good grades by simply half-assing homework.

    Also, do you really think 30k some dollars a year is a salary that is going to attract quality educators, especially in expensive places like California or New England? Not to mention that places like those are some of the toughest to teach in...
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    Default Re: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    Quote Originally Posted by LizardQueen View Post
    Students do poorly on the standardized tests because they don't affect students at all, so they don't care. I was one of those kids who tried hard on the school-wide PSAT since I knew it was practice for a test that would be important for college, and I scored in the 95th percentile.

    On Standardized tests that didn't cover my favorite subject, I couldn't be bothered to give a shit and my mom would always be appalled at my scores. When classes are only geared toward bullshit tests that have low standards anyway, students have no motivation to bother learning the course material, especially when it's relatively easy to do well in school and get to college with good grades by simply half-assing homework.

    Also, do you really think 30k some dollars a year is a salary that is going to attract quality educators, especially in expensive places like California or New England? Not to mention that places like those are some of the toughest to teach in...
    You misunderstand me. You said education is failing because standardized tests lower the standards. The two have nothing to do with each other other than the tests indicating poor performance. The poor performance comes before the standardized test has a chance to indicate that. I will grant you though that the tests may not be the best indicators of future success.

    I teach in an inner-city New England school district. Our teachers start out at $40K and top out at $75K after 10 years so I don't know where you get $30K from.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

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    Default Re: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    You misunderstand me. You said education is failing because standardized tests lower the standards.

    I teach in an inner-city New England school district. Our teachers start out at $40K and top out at $75K after 10 years so I don't know where you get $30K from.
    Just wanted to clarify that I don't mean to say that the tests themselves lower the standards (maybe other than not providing students with an incentive to study), but that our standards are generally lower than most other countries anyway.

    That's not a bad salary range. Especially considering the average US high school teacher only make $15.44/hour.

    http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...rs/Hourly_Rate

    ETA: Looks like inner-city teachers tend to make more. At least they get increased compensation! But... all wagers are higher and costs of living are higher in bigger cities as well. http://www.theapple.com/careers/arti...-k-12-teachers
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    Default Re: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    Quote Originally Posted by LizardQueen View Post
    Just wanted to clarify that I don't mean to say that the tests themselves lower the standards (maybe other than not providing students with an incentive to study), but that our standards are generally lower than most other countries anyway.
    Yup. My university offered a US subject (ie a holiday law elective which an American university professor comes over here to teach and grade) over the Winter break. These American electives generally cover various areas of US law, and tend to be exercises, to a degree, in comparative law. The US holiday subjects were and are reputedly graded generously, so I signed up with the thought that it would be an easy way to get my last elective out the road. I wasn't wrong, either. The prescribed textbook was most unlike any of the domestic law texts I've had to read (ie it was far more simplified), the lectures were shallow, though interesting and I wrote my two final essays two nights before the due date. I thought they were worth about a C (which is around what I would generally get for essays of that slightly rushed calibre in any of my regular subjects), but I came out with an A. Some students got marks like 95%- which are pretty much never seen in the domestic subjects. I almost felt guilty, and I certainly felt shocked, having presumed that an American law school education couldn't possibly be all that different to a local one.

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    Default Re: What about a democratic President have you scared/ hopeful?

    Fears:

    The Dems won't maintain a full sweep majority for more than 2 years. Power back in the hands of the GOP, in general. At this point, I don't want to see another GOP leader ever, ever again. Unless ofcourse they morph into a more liberal version of themselves.

    Hopes:

    The return of respect of much of the rest of the world which was lost under the current GOP leadership. Putting Bush, Cheney, Rummy etc. in jail would go along way in that regard. I realize that's probably not going to happen I can't help but understand that it would show the world that we don't put up with war crimes done in our name and so it remains in my hopes list.

    That green energy will be the rule rather than the exception for the US within the next decade. Now that the GOP is lame duck we might actually have a chance to get and use energy in a responsible manner.

    That we get a national healthcare and national higher education programs.

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