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Thread: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Although she has a long string of positives for Obama and for her ; having her "inside" not least among them; Hillary will have a hard time with the vetting process and Bill will not be able to survive it. He's received too much questionable money from foreign powers. He will FINALLY be forced to reveal all the donors to the Clinton Library and Massage Parlor. The conflicts of interest between her work as Secretary of State and his international money-making will be numerous and inextricable. His Kazakhstan shenanigans will finally get a public airing.

    I look for her to gracefully decline.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 11-19-2008 at 01:26 PM.

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    Senior Member Lucy in the Sky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    I was thinking and hoping he was going to put here as Sec. of Health since that subject has been her pet project for so many years but to my surprise Obama appointed Tom Daschle today.

    Now I am starting to feel it is more and more likely that he will put her as Sec. of State ( and I think she will accept and be confirmed) but personally I want Richardson in that spot.

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy in the Sky View Post
    I was thinking and hoping he was going to put here as Sec. of Health since that subject has been her pet project for so many years but to my surprise Obama appointed Tom Daschle today.

    Now I am starting to feel it is more and more likely that he will put her as Sec. of State ( and I think she will accept and be confirmed) but personally I want Richardson in that spot.
    You may be right. Reportedly, Bill is scrambling to cover his tracks and enable her to survive the confirmation hearings. She will have BOTH a friendly Congress and a friendly media.

    But here's a better question: the Secretary of State is SUPPOSED to be the President's alter ego when abroad i.e. talking to her is supposed to be just like talking to the President. Nixon always had Kissinger's back and vice versa. Same with Baker and Bush I. Can Hillary do that ? Will she ? We saw how Cheney and Rumsfeld undercut Powell. They weren't able to do it to Rice but the problem for her is that she is not representing a clear and coherent policy from G.W. Joe Biden is going to defer to Hillary on foreign policy ? And if things go sour and Bill's embarrassments and meddlings pile up, will Obama be able to cut Hillary loose if he has to ? If she undercuts him once too often or steps out of line will Obama have the guts to can her.

    Btw, what is it about Hillary that commends her for this job ? A good Secretary of State FOLLOWS orders and sees to it that the PRESIDENT's foreign policy goals and themes are executed. People really think that Hillary is cut out to serve as opposed to going her own way ? Foreign leaders are much less likely to buy her phony laugh and forced affect.

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    Senior Member Lucy in the Sky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    You seem to just hate them, period. So no offense but I'm not going to waste time pointing out her or their good points. Maybe it would be best for you to focus on all the fun you'll have tearing them apart if she gets the job. Think of all the new material you'll have to rag on

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    I'm not so sure, Eric.

    With the delays involved, I can't help but wonder if Bill isn't covering his tracks for that sole reason: her taking the position. I'm thinking she will accept.

    In regards to her qualifications for the job ... that is (laughably) debatable. Drawing as many power bases as he can, I don't think that Obama is actually considering qualifications.

    Narcissus

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    Featured Member flickad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    I'm curious, Eric. I don't know much about Hillary's policies; all I've heard is that she's slightly to the right of Obama. Anyway, I'm wondering why it is that you dislike her so strongly.

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Obama's been appointing Clinton people like crazy. Where's the promised change?

    The only Clinton figure who doesn't seem to be getting mentioned for a spot is Monica Lewinsky.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

    If you're in your twenties and aren't a liberal, you have no heart. If you're in you're forties and aren't a conservative, you have no brain - Winston Churchill

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    I'm curious, Eric. I don't know much about Hillary's policies; all I've heard is that she's slightly to the right of Obama. Anyway, I'm wondering why it is that you dislike her so strongly.
    Number one, Hillary's appeal has always eluded me. As a person, I fail to see anything honorable or gracious in her. We discussed this in detail when she was running for President but she lacks a record of accomplishing anything.

    She is ravenous for power and so vindictive as to make Nixon look piously forgiving. She is blatantly dishonest. I've read her Grand Jury testimony ( the part that was released ) and am still amazed that she was never indicted for perjury. I could have gotten her convicted without breaking a sweat.

    Everything about her is so disgustingly phony, fake or forced. That phony laugh is just the least of it. She is a notorious and well documented fabulist with a serious inability to be truthful and who is highly prone to exaggeration.

    Obama's people did NOT leak her name as possible Sec. Of State. It was HILLARY.
    Although Bill is trying to help her by disentangling himself from his business dealings, Abner Mikva is advising Obama to be cautious about appointing her.

    Assuming she could survive confirmation, the problems inherent in having her as Secretary of State are both numerous and serious. First of all, she is NOT a team player. Her history and Bill's is that it is always about them. If she couldn't rein Bill in during the campaign and if Obama's people had trouble with him, HOW is she going to control him while serving Obama ?. Hillary sees enemies everywhere and does not play well with others. Foreign policy is a cooperative enterprise as Al Haig quickly found out. The other Secretary of State who couldn't get in step with his President was Bryan who was quickly forced to resign by Wilson.

    I understand that Obama is trying to model his Cabinet after Lincoln's "Team of Rivals" and Hillary is supposedly his Seward. But, the challenges we face now dwarf any faced by Lincoln. His biggest foreign policy worries were French and British aid and possible intervention on the side of the South ( for which there was little popular support in either country ) and French troops in Mexico. Both were easily finessed until events i.e. victories over the South made both threats dissipate and eventually disappear. Contrast that with what we have to deal with today on a multitude of fronts- Russia, China, NATO, the Middle East, Pakhistan, Iraq, North Korea, Afghanistan, Venezuela and Cuba not to mention preserving NAFTA and GATT.

    Just as importantly, Seward served Lincoln in an age without radio, television and the internet. The White House and Washington press corps was miniscule in both size and infuence compared to today. With a modern press, it would be "all Clinton, all the time."

    Her appointment would be a gift that never stops giving to the press and to the late night comedians.

    The only way her appointment makes sense is in a Byzantine, Machiavellian way reminiscent of Frank Skeffington in THE LAST HURRAH when he "appointed" the dim wit son of his arch enemy Norman Cass, Fire Commissioner. Knowing about Bill's international machinations and knowing how they'd be revealed and scrutinized during Hillary's confirmation and how damaging they would be to Bill and Hillary, he could really damage her permanently by shining as many spotlights on her as possible and then get her to withdraw and say : "I didn't know how dirty Bill's hands really were."

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    Obama's been appointing Clinton people like crazy. Where's the promised change?

    The only Clinton figure who doesn't seem to be getting mentioned for a spot is Monica Lewinsky.
    That's a good question. It's setting up as a de facto third term for Bill.

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Me personally I don't think Obama trusts Hillary after all the shit she talked about him on the campaign trail I wouldn't trust her ass either.

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    Obama's been appointing Clinton people like crazy. Where's the promised change?
    I think the promised change they were referring to was from the Bush II disaster.

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Quote Originally Posted by arctic717 View Post
    I think the promised change they were referring to was from the Bush II disaster.
    Um, the "change" theme was used pretty well on Hillary during the primaries.

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    But Obama is the one who will be in charge. These people will have to work under his agenda. I think if he went and got a bunch of untested people, that would be a bigger problem. If he is the one heading the change and he has experienced people doing his bidding, then what's the problem?
    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." - Bertrand Russell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    Ya'll bitches need to calm down. Cerously.
    In other words: Boo-motherfucking-hoo

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss_Luscious View Post
    But Obama is the one who will be in charge. These people will have to work under his agenda. I think if he went and got a bunch of untested people, that would be a bigger problem. If he is the one heading the change and he has experienced people doing his bidding, then what's the problem?
    Because Hillary is of, for and by HERSELF. Bill is for Bill 100% of the time.

    When she screws up and she will ( her history is full of gaffes, lies and miscalculations ) it will be almost impossible for Obama to fire her.

    The Secretary of State has to work in harmony with the National Security Advisor and Secretary of Defense. Part of Bush's problems resulted from turf battles between Powell and Rumsfeld and to a lesser degree Powell and Rice. Hillary is GUARANTEED to fight like a tigress and to seek revenge for any instance, real or imagined, of disrespect.

    With Hillary it's all about HER. So let's look at why HER people leaked tht she is being considered. It wasn't Obama's. They've been denying for days that it was them.

    Hillary wants to be high profile. She is the JUNIOR Senator from N.Y. She will NEVER be Majority Leader and NEVER get a major committee chairmanship. She is not going to lead on National Health Care . She didn't get the Vice-Presidency. What's left ? Secretary of State.

    When, WHEN has Hillary EVER proved that she is a good "follower" ? A good team player ? One reason her National Health Care proposal went down in flames was her imperious manner and take no prisoners style.

    Based on her public statements and according to numerous Clinton White House insiders, she has a LOT of trouble telling the truth. Obama wants that as his Secretary of State ? How can he trust her ?

    If Obama really READS Doris Kearns Goodwin's "TEAM OF RIVALS" he will see how disfunctional Lincoln's Cabinet really was. Lincoln succeeded in spite of his own Cabinet, not because of it.

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Quote Originally Posted by MoetATL07 View Post
    Me personally I don't think Obama trusts Hillary after all the shit she talked about him on the campaign trail I wouldn't trust her ass either.
    Obama is smart enough not to trust a Clinton, of that I am positive. However, the shit-talk of campaigning (especially primaries) is easily swept under the rug as everyone involved understands that it was an attempt at a chance for the presidency ... usually nothing more.

    Quote Originally Posted by arctic717 View Post
    I think the promised change they were referring to was from the Bush II disaster.
    Actually if you will go back and look, you will find that Obama used the 'promise of change' as almost a mantra against Hillary ... more than once making comments implying that 'old politicians' are not the way to make actual changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss_Luscious View Post
    But Obama is the one who will be in charge. These people will have to work under his agenda. I think if he went and got a bunch of untested people, that would be a bigger problem. If he is the one heading the change and he has experienced people doing his bidding, then what's the problem?
    You are assuming that anyone under Obama will follow his requests without deviating one iota ... it just doesn't work that way. There will be constant power-plays and power struggles going on behind (and often - not behind) the scenes.

    Hillary is as power hungery as Obama and will stop at next to nothing to strengthen herself in any way that she can ... regardless of Obama's ideals, suggestions, and requests. His only reasoning that I can fathom for even considering it: to gather as many bases of power as he can so he will have less of a struggle while implementing whatever agendas he has in mind.

    I really believe that he will appoint her (I hope I'm wrong), I just hope that he can find a way to control her (and Bill) ... although I doubt that is within his abilities.

    Narcissus

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Looks like it's going to happen after Thanksgiving. Obama's people appear to have settled the Bill issues.




    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

    On a side note: Obama had his campaign clamped down when it came to leaks. I'm interested to see how he will deal with all the gov't employees who know just enough, and are eager to share with the press.
    Last edited by Dirty Ernie; 11-21-2008 at 07:32 AM.

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Ernie View Post
    Looks like it's going to happen after Thanksgiving. Obama's people appear to have settled the Bill issues.




    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

    On a side note: Obama had his campaign clamped down when it came to leaks. I'm interested to see how he will deal with all the gov't employees who know just enough, and are eager to share with the press.
    It won't be the last time Obama fails to heed my advice and I am certain he will ultimately regret his choice. I'll be curious to see whether the Repuiblicans do their job and give her and BILL the thorough vetting called for. I'm still trying to understand what Hillary brings to the table that makes her a good choice.

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Quote Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
    Obama is smart enough not to trust a Clinton, of that I am positive. However, the shit-talk of campaigning (especially primaries) is easily swept under the rug as everyone involved understands that it was an attempt at a chance for the presidency ... usually nothing more.



    Actually if you will go back and look, you will find that Obama used the 'promise of change' as almost a mantra against Hillary ... more than once making comments implying that 'old politicians' are not the way to make actual changes.



    You are assuming that anyone under Obama will follow his requests without deviating one iota ... it just doesn't work that way. There will be constant power-plays and power struggles going on behind (and often - not behind) the scenes.

    Hillary is as power hungery as Obama and will stop at next to nothing to strengthen herself in any way that she can ... regardless of Obama's ideals, suggestions, and requests. His only reasoning that I can fathom for even considering it: to gather as many bases of power as he can so he will have less of a struggle while implementing whatever agendas he has in mind.

    I really believe that he will appoint her (I hope I'm wrong), I just hope that he can find a way to control her (and Bill) ... although I doubt that is within his abilities.

    Narcissus
    Appointing her will be easy. Firing her when he has to; not IF; WHEN; will be traumatic.

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Quote Originally Posted by arctic717 View Post
    I think the promised change they were referring to was from the Bush II disaster.
    No, it was just a catchy slogan. He campaigned on bringing a fresh approach to Washingon politics and then went out and hired all these democratic hacks from the Clinton years.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    I'm still wondering what sort of 'immunity' was conferred on Bill Clinton's economic history to allow Hilary to be vetted.

    PS between Rahm Emanuel and Hilary being appointed, stand by for an eruption in the middle east.

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    ^^^ How is she qualified anyway? She has no background in such matters. She's a one-term junior senator from NY who only has that position for two reasons:

    1. She was married to Bill Clinton.
    2. JFK, Jr. died in a plane crash ( more than one person has said he was a foregone conclusion for that position ).
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Quote Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
    Actually if you will go back and look, you will find that Obama used the 'promise of change' as almost a mantra against Hillary ... more than once making comments implying that 'old politicians' are not the way to make actual changes.
    I think he was saying that Hillary was aligned with Bush on alot of issues and that as you said she was part of the ´old politicians´ set. What I took out of this was that he is talking about a ´change´ from that and back to President Clinton´s policies, which is fine by me.

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    ...and then went out and hired all these democratic hacks from the Clinton years.
    We had 8 years of unsurpassed peace and prosperity from those Democratic hacks.

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    Senior Member Lucy in the Sky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Quote Originally Posted by arctic717 View Post
    We had 8 years of unsurpassed peace and prosperity from those Democratic hacks.
    Exactly! Too bad a few here on this site outright don't want to see those kind of days again. At least not under a Dem anyway. They would prefer to see 'doom and gloom' on national level than a successful Dem administration. It's a sad, sad thing when someone is so partisan that they feel or act in such a manner

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    Default Re: Hillary is NOT going to be Sec. of State

    Quote Originally Posted by arctic717 View Post
    We had 8 years of unsurpassed peace and prosperity from those Democratic hacks.

    The first Twin Towers attack was in Feb of 1993. We can document an escalation of attacks (remember our embassies in Africa) during Clintons 2 terms. Unsurpassed peace? lololol You mean a deferment of war.

    Ohhh, BTW didn't Clinton attack a country congress did not authorize and we had no UN sanction? Yeah, Serbia. Didn't he run like a little pansy after the Somalia incident? And refused to even comment on Rwanda. I guess peace (sic) if you're white and in Europe, and pieces if you're black and in Africa.

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