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Thread: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

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    Default US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    with this morning's announcement of a CitiBank bailout, the US taxpayer is now on the hook for somewhere around $7.4 trillion dollars worth of toxic loans, bonds, CDO's etc.



    (snip)"Nov. 24 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. government is prepared to lend more than $7.4 trillion on behalf of American taxpayers, or half the value of everything produced in the nation last year, to rescue the financial system since the credit markets seized up 15 months ago.

    The unprecedented pledge of funds includes $2.8 trillion already tapped by financial institutions in the biggest response to an economic emergency since the New Deal of the 1930s, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The commitment dwarfs the only plan approved by lawmakers, the Treasury Department’s $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program. Federal Reserve lending last week was 1,900 times the weekly average for the three years before the crisis.

    When Congress approved the TARP on Oct. 3, Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson acknowledged the need for transparency and oversight. Now, as regulators commit far more money while refusing to disclose loan recipients or reveal the collateral they are taking in return, some Congress members are calling for the Fed to be reined in.

    “Whether it’s lending or spending, it’s tax dollars that are going out the window and we end up holding collateral we don’t know anything about,” said Congressman Scott Garrett, a New Jersey Republican who serves on the House Financial Services Committee. “The time has come that we consider what sort of limitations we should be placing on the Fed so that authority returns to elected officials as opposed to appointed ones.” "(snip)


    bringing this into perspective, 7.4 trillion dollars represents about one half of EVERY dollar produced / earned in the USA last year ( a.k.a. GDP ). It also represents over $20,000 in additional future income tax liability for every American man, woman and child. However, since some 40% of Americans don't actually have to pay income taxes, it actually represents something in the neighborhood of an additional $40,000 of income tax liability for each and every American who actually nust pay income taxes !

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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    and here's some additional detail ...



    (snip)"Where's all that money coming from?

    $2.4 trillion in commercial paper purchases by the Fed.

    $2 trillion in other loans and pledges from the Fed.

    $1.4 trillion in rescue committments, including higher deposits insurance.

    Bloomberg explains: "The FDIC, chaired by Sheila Bair, is contributing 20 percent of total rescue commitments. The FDIC’s $1.4 trillion in guarantees will amount to a bank subsidy of as much as $54 billion over three years, or $18 billion a year, because borrowers will pay a lower interest rate than they would on the open market, according to Raghu Sundurum and Viral Acharya of New York University and the London Business School."

    $892 billion for the Treasury's TARP and other Hank Paulson rescues.

    $300 billion from FHA to guarantee mortgages through the Hope for Homeowners program, designed to keep distressed borrowers from foreclosure.

    $444 billion bailout bucks for Sheila Bair's mortgage program. Bloomberg: "Not included in the calculation of pledged funds is an FDIC proposal to prevent foreclosures by guaranteeing modifications on $444 billion in mortgages at an expected cost of $24.4 billion to be paid from the TARP, according to FDIC spokesman David Barr. The Treasury Department hasn’t approved the program."

    So with the housing modification plan, that's $7.8 trillion."(snip)

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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    Yeah. A few billion dollars here and there. Pretty soon it adds up to real money.


    Almost as much as borrowing for that stupid war has cost us.
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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    ^^^ you're only off by a factor of 10 or so !

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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    I hate these goddamn bailouts!! I'm already pretty disappointed in Obama. He said he would "reach across the table," but his selections have almost all been super left liberals, and he's NOT raising taxes on the rich (at all) anytime soon as he promised, and these bailouts are just insane.
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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    Quote Originally Posted by LizardQueen View Post
    I'm already pretty disappointed in Obama. He said he would "reach across the table," but his selections have almost all been super left liberals,
    How can you tell a politician is lieing? There mouths are moving. So, what exactly did you expect?

    Quote Originally Posted by LizardQueen View Post
    and he's NOT raising taxes on the rich (at all) anytime soon as he promised,
    How about if the vast majority of citizens who are getting a free ride start paying into the system?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    Quote Originally Posted by glambman View Post
    How can you tell a politician is lieing? There mouths are moving. So, what exactly did you expect?



    How about if the vast majority of citizens who are getting a free ride start paying into the system?
    I expected Obama/Biden to be a better team than Mr. Sellout and Mrs. Idiot?

    And the vast majority of citizens do pay into the system via SS and sales tax. I'm not trying to start a tax debate with you, I just think it's lols that he's already been exposed as at least partially full of shit. They usually wait a while...

    Can we haz revote for Ron Paul? ahaha
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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    Quote Originally Posted by LizardQueen View Post
    I expected Obama/Biden to be a better team

    he's already been exposed as at least partially full of shit. They usually wait a while...

    I will let you in on a little secret::: I've always known he was full of shit. lololol
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    Oh, it ain't over. Not by a long shot.

    If you are talking about the amount of bad debt out there floating around, the number is more like a quadrillion dollars. Yep, that's 1000 trillion dollars. Can't wrap your head around that number? You might have to ask Stephen Hawking for clarification; he is likely the only mathematician with enough talent to explain figures like that in language that most of us can understand.


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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    ^^^ I agree that the worldwide unfunded liabilities of gov'ts and corporations probably approaches that mind boggling number. After all US social security / medicare / medicaid spending obligations are already approaching 100 trillion all by themselves, and US corporate pension / medical obligations are probably every bit as high.

    Of course the 800 pound gorilla issue is the fact that none of these 'promises' can / will ever be kept, because they were originally based on a pyramid scheme of an ever expanding population of working, taxpaying citizens and an ever expanding number of good paying jobs with corporate America. Well the ever expanding population is true enough ... however, the 'working', the 'taxpaying' etc. are an entirely different story.

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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    A bigger problem may well be the rate of population expansion in the USA. Population expansion can only be expected until the next series of uncontrolled pandemics.

    I don't think that is exactly a 'pyramid scheme". Most years we have had "ever expanding population of working, taxpaying citizens and an ever expanding number of good paying jobs with corporate America". It's just that the country (and probably all others too) doesn't yet know how to handle a bad recession without a lot of people getting hurt. The USA is not going to dominate the world anymore, but will be closer to many other countries due to multiple reasons. It needs to be more of a partner.
    Last edited by threlayer; 11-27-2008 at 07:19 PM.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    I wonder how all these bailouts will be funded, given how deep the US national deficit already is. I wonder how long lenders will continue to lend.

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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    A bigger problem may well be the rate of population expansion in the USA. Population expansion can only be exprected until the next series of uncontrolled pandemics.

    I don't think that is exactly a 'pyramid scheme". Most years we have had "ever expanding population of working, taxpaying citizens and an ever expanding number of good paying jobs with corporate America". It's just that the country (and probably all others too) doesn't yet know how to handle a bad recession without a lot of people getting hurt. The USA is not going to dominate the world anymore, but will be closer to many other countries due to multiple reasons.
    Quoted for truth. The USA's days as a super power are all but over.

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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    Quoted for truth. The USA's days as a super power are all but over.
    Oh ? Compared to a LOT of other economies, ours is still relatively healthy.

    China and Russia both have enormous and insoluble problems. India lacks our military strength. We're not as dominant as we used to be but we're still the leader of the "Free World".

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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Oh ? Compared to a LOT of other economies, ours is still relatively healthy.

    China and Russia both have enormous and insoluble problems. India lacks our military strength. We're not as dominant as we used to be but we're still the leader of the "Free World".
    Really? I thought you guys were suffering a deeper recession than most of the rest of the developed world.

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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    I thought you guys were suffering a deeper recession than most of the rest of the developed world
    Dirty little secret #1 = as long as the rest of the world is still willing to loan America more of their money, and as long as the US Fed can continue running printing presses, we are able to 'export' much of our recession to the rest of the world !

    Dirty little secret #2 = Americans who are employed by the gov't or paid by the gov't, i.e. civil service workers, former workers collecting unemployment benefits that never expire, workers for contractors on gov't projects, workers at gov't subsidized industries etc. have so far been 'recession proof'.

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    Default Re: US gov't bailout pledges now equal $7.4 TRILLION dollars !

    And if they didn't loan us the money, their economies would collapse. They wouldn't have our market to export stuff too.

    But, this is not limited to just our country, It is pretty much 90% of countries that rely on loans.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
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