Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 89

Thread: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

  1. #26
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    they select a number oflocations and start a bidding war as to who will give the best benefits. Training funds, tax breaks, etc.. So, actually, we are already subsidizing the companies who provides a 'cheaper' car.
    you have to be somewhat careful about the 'we' ... because while it may include the taxpayers of ONE state it does not include the taxpayers of all 50 states ! It also involves tens of millions rather than tens of billions !!!

  2. #27
    Senior Member Lucy in the Sky's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    150
    Thanks
    10
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    you have to be somewhat careful about the 'we' ... because while it may include the taxpayers of ONE state it does not include the taxpayers of all 50 states ! It also involves tens of millions rather than tens of billions !!!
    Is that so? Which States are you claiming to not be included?

  3. #28
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    ^^^ Well, for example, California and New York and Illinois taxpayers did not contribute one nickel to the state property tax abatements, local infrastructure improvement costs, state corporate income tax credits for worker training etc. that accompanied the establishment of a BMW plant in South Carolina, a Subaru plant in Indiana, a Hyundai plant in Texas etc. And again we're talking about individual state incentives on the order of tens of millions of dollars, versus projected federal taxpayer losses on a 'Detroit Three' bailout on the order of tens of BILLIONS of dollars !!!

  4. #29
    Featured Member
    Joined
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    961
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    Sure, some in the tens of, and quiet a number in the hundreds of millions. KIA 400m Ga Toyota 133m Texas

    Technically you would be right, but what's the difference between a state giving a state subsidy to/ for a plant and the Fed giving it to the mother corp for its plants/ operations. Just different ways of doing the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
    Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness
    The note that began all can also destroy

  5. #30
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by jester214 View Post
    I wish they would just let them fail, some one will buy them....for pennies on the dollar. They've already failed and frankly it is ridiculous to loan them money... They'll never pay it back, the unions will never let them make the kind of cuts they really need...If toyota makes Ford, I really won't care, it's capitalism.
    If your business depended partly on auto sales/supplies/repairs, you wouldn't be saying this. Then profits and tooling costs will go to foreign companies, another big blow to balance of payments.

    Several things wil just have to go -- inflated(*) union wages/benefits, the huge ratio of dealers to vehicles sold (maybe 7 times), reluctance to improve technologies that matter (pollution, efficiency, repair costs, manuverability, safety) over those that do not (more drinkholders, iPod support, heated armrests, auto-deploying sunvisors).

    (*)The remaining auto workers via their unions are going to have to take a paycut, either under the present companies or under successors. They must know that. Frankly a benefits-loaded salary of $45/hour is a great salary. But $75 is a ridiculous $156,000 per annum and they don't get that. I don't know how those salaries are calculated, but I suspect they are loaded wit benefits and maybe even indirects, i.e., shared cost of the plant they work in. (Like for an office worker their share of the cost of their cubicle space.)

    Capitalism--yet another thread. (constitution guarantees democracy not capitalism)
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  6. #31
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ while I agree with your basic sentiments, there is a fundamental difference between the financial industry and manufacturing industries. The financial industry is the 'lubricant' which all other business activity requires in order to function. Imagine the impact if every American was expected to pay cash for a house / car / appliances / furniture / you name it ! THIS is the arguably justifiable reason that the US financial industry had to be rescued.
    The financial sector bailout has NOT produced anything like the guaranteed results. The auto industry has been very reluctant to accept change and the financial crunch/gasoline spike has pulled them over. But the financial industry tried to sneak one over on all of us, have mis-spend a good porion of those funds, and they have not significantly loosened up the credit market. Yes, Paulson etc have not done oversight there and that's part of the problem. But oversight of the auto industry should be easier and more transparent.

    If anything than auto industry deserves help more than the financial industry, just based on intent and potential. Not that we should let the finance industry go to the dogs (though it's already with the wolves).

    But bailing out US manufacturing industries, and specifically bailing out CERTAIN US manufacturing industries while allowing other competing US manufacturing industries to 'fight their own battles' in the same marketplace is an entirely different story. This boils down to the US government choosing winners and losers. And as is obvious from the auto bailout hearings, the gov'ts choice to bail out one manufacturer (i.e. Ford / GM / Chrysler) versus a competing manufacturer (i.e. US BMW, US Subaru, US Hyundai, US Toyota) is going to be politically motivated not economically motivated.
    Not exactly 'different.' And certainly not the only one politically-motivated. The US govt has been selecting and de-selecting favored industries for many, many years. Tax preference items, depletion allowances, import and export tariffs and restrictions, subsidies, grants, gas-guzzler tax, accelerated depreciation, tax credits and deductions. Etc. Etc. Etc. Adjusted for inflation the Detroit Three rescue is not the biggest deal ever made. Not by far. Just trying to be complete here.
    Last edited by threlayer; 12-07-2008 at 12:29 PM.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  7. #32
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    Another thought is that of fair trade. How ironic it would be if companies in countries that did not allow US-produced autos to be sold were to buy out the entire US auto design/assembly industry.

    Autos from the former Big Three, in general, sell for less that the best known foreign imports when comparing comparable models (Korean-produced autos and the cheapest 'US branded' ones made by Koreans companies being the major exceptions, though they don't hold up well over time). So I don't think price alone is the factor. Further will some well-known exceptions, design/asembly quality is not significantly different and maybe better in some instances.

    In fact with very significant union wage/benefit concessions, I believe the US auto industry could compete well with most foreign import or foreign-branded autos. I believe a lot of the sales problem is due to a mystique that foreign cars are better and cheaper. And in my opinion, overall that just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

    I hope I can continue to buy American-branded autos as I need them.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  8. #33
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by glambman View Post
    Sure, some in the tens of, and quiet a number in the hundreds of millions. KIA 400m Ga Toyota 133m Texas

    Technically you would be right, but what's the difference between a state giving a state subsidy to/ for a plant and the Fed giving it to the mother corp for its plants/ operations. Just different ways of doing the same thing.

    Not the same thing. First those are only assembly plants. Second, that subsidization arguably makes those cars cheaper when competing against domestically-branded ones. I'm not sure cheaper to the public, because cars made in those plant would have compete against similar cars made by the same company and foreign-assembled. And I don't believe they are.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  9. #34
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ...
    Actually, many many Americans prefer the safety, comfort and load carrying capacity of big cars / trucks / SUV's. It has only been their inability to afford putting gas in these vehicles at $4 per gallon that caused sales to drop drastically. The equation is actually very different with gas below $2 per gallon.

    ...Forcing Detroit to build cars that they are not 'good at' ...arguably does not directly increase the desire of many many Americans to own such cars....
    I agree that Americans are stongly into the habit of buying what they want as long as they can afford it. Greening and balance of payments be damned. Just how many people actually need the traction and volume capabilities of those gas-guzzling 4WD SUVs/trucks, etc? Narcissism wins yet again.

    If the political policy of fuel sipping cars is what American politicians and voters really want, then the smart thing to do would be to simply let the Detroit Three go bankrupt. As a result, the major source of big car / truck / SUV product would immediately dry up ... thus forcing Americans to buy smaller vehicles ... and WITHOUT increasing taxes on a huge number of Americans in order to continue providing paychecks for union auto workers who receive much higher hourly pay and much better benefits than they do !!!
    No. The foreign mfgrs would simply satisfy that market, as they are doing now. (Eg the Toyota Tundra is not exactly efficient.) Some of the lowest mileage (and extremely expensive) cars are foreign. Let's hope that Americans will have used the gas speculation bubble to initiate their shift to more socially responsible vehicle buying.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to threlayer For This Useful Post:

    FBR

  11. #35
    God/dess FBR's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2003
    Posts
    8,351
    Thanks
    85
    Thanked 342 Times in 244 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Mellow

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    The Big Three offer numerous good quality high mileage cars albeit at a loss here in the states (they make good money on them in Europe because those folks will pay for the good mileage). The mileage on Land Cruisers, Tundras, Titans, X5's, the big M-B SUV's and so forth is just as shitty as my Escalade's.

    Folks, these people don't deserve a hall pass. I mean, they build what they believe people want to buy and I'm sure with minimal hand wringing about mileage and other green concerns. Their concern is profit just like our boys. And I have no problem with that. But I do get sick of hearing how the domestics only build gas hog pieces of shit while the import manufacturers are worthy of praise.

    FBR
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

  12. #36
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    ^^ Exactly !!!
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to threlayer For This Useful Post:

    FBR

  14. #37
    God/dess FBR's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2003
    Posts
    8,351
    Thanks
    85
    Thanked 342 Times in 244 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Mellow

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081207/...us_autos_ports

    This article was chilling and not in a good way.

    FBR
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

  15. #38
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    Not to mention dealer floorplan costs.

    Also I'd expect foreign mfgrs to slow their production in US factories before slowing their foreign production for the US.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  16. #39
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    what's the difference between a state giving a state subsidy to/ for a plant and the Fed giving it to the mother corp for its plants/ operations. Just different ways of doing the same thing.
    the difference is that voters in the particular state / city that agreed to grant one new foreign owned assembly plant tax abatements, infrastructure improvements etc. did so willingly ... with the express intent of making an investment in that city / state's own economic future. Under the federal auto bailout, the funding by residents of every state is INVOLUNTARY, the funding primarily benefits the economies of a small handful of states to the detriment of most other states etc.


    This article was chilling and not in a good way.
    actually the issue goes far beyond west coast ports. For a fact, because of US dollar exchange rate changes, major 'foreign owned' car companies are experiencing unprecedented losses when booked in their 'home' currency. To be more precise, it was estimated that Toyota was losing about US$3500 on the sale of every Prius. Due to the strengthening Yen, Toyota is now estimated to be losing about $5000 on the sale of every Prius. The reason of course is that the Prius is 100% imported. Toyota is still making money on every car that they are assembling in America though. Thus if no bailout takes place, there will be strong financial motivation for Toyota to import far fewer cars but to expand capacity at American assembly plants. THIS is the sort of 'lost opportunity cost' that goes along with the bailout.


    and in the way of an update ...



    (snip)"If there was ever any question whether Congress actually wants to "save" Detroit, this week dispelled it. This is not a bailout that Congress is debating. It is a federal takeover. We don't mean that in the sense that the feds will own the companies on paper, although that can't be ruled out. What Congress wants to own is their business plan, and Detroit seems prepared to oblige.

    Yet amid all the hopeful talk about the brave, new green car world, the men from Detroit were studiously silent on whether they can sell these new cars at a profit any better than they can their current lineup. Yes, the restructuring plans, especially GM's, have some stark numbers about downsizing -- 30,000 blue collar jobs are on the chopping block at GM alone. And this is accompanied by gauzy predictions of matching Toyota's labor costs by 2012. But it's hard to see how that gets done without a bankruptcy judge to tear up the contracts and start over. Once the auto makers agree to let Barney Frank run their businesses, does anyone really believe organized labor will roll over and let them gut the United Auto Workers?

    The core problem is that the companies can't pay their creditors in fuel-economy standards. Two economists testified that the ultimate cost of this bailout would certainly be much, much higher than $34 billion. Mark Zandi of economy.com put the number at up to $125 billion -- and he supports the bailout. NYU's Edward Altman said the company proposals were "doomed to fail." He proposed a prepackaged bankruptcy for GM and Chrysler, with the government providing the debtor-in-possession financing if necessary. His point, which ought to be sobering, was that outside of bankruptcy there is no way to make these taxpayer loans senior to existing secured debt -- meaning the government might never get paid back if the companies go bankrupt later.

    Mr. Altman's suggestion has a lot of things going for it. Instead of the politically driven "car czar" being mooted to oversee the bailout, you'd have a bankruptcy judge to make sure that the companies did, in fact, emerge as more viable businesses. The resulting restructuring would be far more likely to be driven by business considerations than political and environmental ones.

    The car makers' request for a bridge loan, by contrast, looks like a $34 billion bridge to nowhere. It has already morphed into an opportunity for political extortion -- and we don't even have a bill yet. When, in a couple years, costs have not come down as expected because of political pressure to keep the unions happy and the green cars aren't selling -- because they were designed in Washington, not for consumers -- the companies will be back for more money.

    The bailout commitment, in other words, is effectively open-ended, no matter what anyone says. And with the feds so invested in the companies, it will only be a short step for Congress to begin to coerce consumers to buy the cars that Washington prefers. Mr. Friedman, the concerned scientist, is already planning for that day. He said Friday that we'll eventually have to impose a "fee" (read: tax) on cars that "pollute too much" or use "too much gas."

    This fairy tale, in other words, does not end happily ever after."(snip)

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 12-08-2008 at 07:40 AM.

  17. #40
    Featured Member
    Joined
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    961
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    the difference is that voters in the particular state / city that agreed to grant one new foreign owned assembly plant tax abatements, infrastructure improvements etc. did so willingly ... with the express intent of making an investment in that city / state's own economic future. Under the federal auto bailout, the funding by residents of every state is INVOLUNTARY, the funding primarily benefits the economies of a small handful of states to the detriment of most other states etc.
    Well, to carry it one sytep further, each state is composed of many counties. How many counties paid so the state could give subsidies in one county? No different than if you replace with Federal govt and states.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
    Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness
    The note that began all can also destroy

  18. #41
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ...Toyota is still making money on every car that they are assembling in America though. Thus if no bailout takes place, there will be strong financial motivation for Toyota to import far fewer cars but to expand capacity at American assembly plants. THIS is the sort of 'lost opportunity cost' that goes along with the bailout.
    I don't see this as bad. Competition is good and Toyota makes some good cars. Better for the US to take some of the jobs/payroll taxes that produces.

    ...If there was ever any question whether Congress actually wants to "save" Detroit, this week dispelled it. This is not a bailout that Congress is debating. It is a federal takeover. We don't mean that in the sense that the feds will own the companies on paper, although that can't be ruled out. What Congress wants to own is their business plan, and Detroit seems prepared to oblige.
    It's just like a bankruptcy without the long term stigma (if it works). Further it really does need some supervision.

    Yet amid all the hopeful talk about the brave, new green car world, the men from Detroit were studiously silent on whether they can sell these new cars at a profit any better than they can their current lineup. ...does anyone really believe organized labor will roll over and let them gut the United Auto Workers?
    In the current economic climate this uncertainty is understandable. And with fuel prices retreating, maybe people will still want less efficient cars as they regain spending confidence. About unions, they will retain their influence on their members but their stranglehold on management will weaken at least for now. In any case they now pretty well understand their health is tied to that of their employers.

    His point, which ought to be sobering, was that outside of bankruptcy there is no way to make these taxpayer loans senior to existing secured debt -- meaning the government might never get paid back if the companies go bankrupt later.
    However, in comparison the government will get repaid by the financiers, I guess?

    ...a bankruptcy judge to make sure that the companies did, in fact, emerge as more viable businesses. The resulting restructuring would be far more likely to be driven by business considerations than political and environmental ones.
    A judge running three huge auto companies?
    The car makers' request for a bridge loan, by contrast, looks like a $34 billion bridge to nowhere...When, in a couple years, costs have not come down as expected because of political pressure to keep the unions happy and the green cars aren't selling -- because they were designed in Washington, not for consumers -- the companies will be back for more money.
    The bailout commitment, in other words, is effectively open-ended, no matter what anyone says.
    And the finance companies won't? You know, federally-mandated safety standards and the old economy standards eventually did produce better vehicles, and even indirectly vehicles that last longer, though a lot higher in initial cost.

    And with the feds so invested in the companies, it will only be a short step for Congress to begin to coerce consumers to buy the cars that Washington prefers. Mr. Friedman, the concerned scientist, is already planning for that day. He said Friday that we'll eventually have to impose a "fee" (read: tax) on cars that "pollute too much" or use "too much gas."...~
    I always see this: business will not become more socially responsibly and it gets out of hand, so government steps in and clumsily 'fixes' things. Business complains loudly about their rights, customers, employees, shareholders, etc. Then after the dust settles, things do cost more,the consumers begin to see benefits andf companies accept that as justification, then people become adjusted to it and then business brags about the changes they made and how much better things are. I see it time and again. But it DOES cost more. Always. Maybe it should too. Remember those old clunkers produced in the late 50s thru late 80s? They're good for novelties but they were NOT good cars. I can't say the banks and stock market are any better at all.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  19. #42
    Featured Member
    Joined
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,030
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 117 Times in 78 Posts

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    If your business depended partly on auto sales/supplies/repairs, you wouldn't be saying this. Then profits and tooling costs will go to foreign companies, another big blow to balance of payments.

    Several things wil just have to go -- inflated(*) union wages/benefits, the huge ratio of dealers to vehicles sold (maybe 7 times), reluctance to improve technologies that matter (pollution, efficiency, repair costs, manuverability, safety) over those that do not (more drinkholders, iPod support, heated armrests, auto-deploying sunvisors).

    (*)The remaining auto workers via their unions are going to have to take a paycut, either under the present companies or under successors. They must know that. Frankly a benefits-loaded salary of $45/hour is a great salary. But $75 is a ridiculous $156,000 per annum and they don't get that. I don't know how those salaries are calculated, but I suspect they are loaded wit benefits and maybe even indirects, i.e., shared cost of the plant they work in. (Like for an office worker their share of the cost of their cubicle space.)

    Capitalism--yet another thread. (constitution guarantees democracy not capitalism)
    No, because I would never be involved in any business that relied on the 'big three'. They have failed again and again, at some point you cut people off, I don't see why a business is any different? Do we bail them out again in 5 years because it might have bad repercussions?

    If we let them go bankrupt someone will buy them, run them better, keep a lot of jobs around. You think a Ford dealer can't sell Ford's if Toyota makes them? Mechanics can't work on cars? Are you kidding, they would love for some of them to close, I've heard this from the mouth of atleast one mechanic. Supplies? Sure some of it may leave, but foreign companies won't be able to handle all of that influx, it would be huge.

    You paint a pretty picture, but it's unrealistic. The dealers aren't going to dissapear, who's going to make them?

    The unions?? You really beleive that they'll ever take cuts? Come on, they already tried to renegotiate contracts and the union wouldn't have it. If they cared about anything but themselves they already would have let something change.

    If Toyota can give me more drink holders, ipod attachments, and heated armrests, while STILL improving technology and pollution rates, who do you think I'm gonna buy from??

    Capitalism isn't guaranteed, but neither is the Government bailing out businesses that can't and won't cut it. Capitalism works time and time again. You really think bailing out will work time and time again?

  20. #43
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    I think the future wil provide better answers than you or I can now.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  21. #44
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    ^^^ so your 'better future answers' justify spending $34 billion in taxpayer money as a matter of 'faith' ?

  22. #45
    Featured Member
    Joined
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,030
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 117 Times in 78 Posts

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    I think the future wil provide better answers than you or I can now.
    Why 'hope' for the future? Let's take a look at history?? Come on, seriously? You'd give them billions on the 'hope' that in the future they'll change their ways and suddenly become competitive and better run??

  23. #46
    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,150
    Thanks
    1,261
    Thanked 1,430 Times in 888 Posts

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    That was Michael Moore's suggestion, too.
    Michael Moore is a gutless punk and complete ignoramus.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 12-10-2008 at 08:15 AM.

  24. #47
    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,150
    Thanks
    1,261
    Thanked 1,430 Times in 888 Posts

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss_Luscious View Post
    I would like for Ford to get the line of credit they requested with very strict guidlines and strings attached. They seem like the most able to get through this mess.

    GM needs to accept a structured bankruptcy. They are done regardless of what happens with this bailout and they might as well get it over with now.

    Chrysler should be merged with one of the other two or go with the same bankruptcy deal as GM.
    You're probably right about Ford.

    GM can and should go through a "Bankruptcy in everything but name". Just put everyone in a room - mgt. , unions, creditors, lenders, suppliers, dealers, car owners and shareholders and work out a restructuring and downsizing that includes getting rid of Wagoner and his board.

    Chrysler is a private company so let it's investors pony up or sell it.

  25. #48
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    If you read what I've posted......I don't know how it will turn out. Neither do you. And neither of us in a poisition to make the decision. In the meantime I'm enjoying playing a devil's advocate, getting to think more about alternatives.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  26. #49
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    Turns out Chrysler and GM are getting $15B total, and Ford is getting $0. To be re-evaluated in March. If it passes.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  27. #50
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: What Will Happen to American Auto Companies

    ^^^ if this passes, the Japanese and German gov'ts will be justified in providing an equal $15 billion to 'subsidize' production costs of US assembled Toyotas and Hondas ! Imagine the impact on Detroit Three sales / profitability projections if the price of every US assembled Japanese or German car is instantly dropped by $2000 in reaction to this bailout !!!

    From the viewpoint of foreign owned carmakers, a US gov't bailout of the Detroit Three constitutes subsidizing domestic industries in favor of foreign owned industries ... which under world trade rules allows them to provide equivalent subsidies !!!

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-15-2008, 03:00 PM
  2. auto refinance
    By TigersMilk in forum Dollar Den
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-10-2007, 02:55 PM
  3. Auto Shows
    By BrunetteGoddess in forum Other Work
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 04-15-2007, 10:49 AM
  4. auto protection
    By chrissxp2002 in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-28-2006, 09:08 PM
  5. Why American Companies are in trouble
    By Deogol in forum Dollar Den
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 04-27-2006, 11:15 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •