Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 45

Thread: Stimulus Package explained ...

  1. #1
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Stimulus Package explained ...

    (snip)"Sometime this year, taxpayers will receive an Economic Stimulus Payment. This is a very exciting new program that I will explain using the Q and A format:

    Q. What is an Economic Stimulus Payment?
    A. It is money that the federal government will send to taxpayers.

    Q. Where will the government get this money?
    A. From taxpayers.

    Q. So the government is giving me back my own money?
    A. No, they are borrowing it from China. Your children are expected to repay the Chinese.

    Q. What is the purpose of this payment?
    A. The plan is that you will use the money to purchase a high-definition TV set, thus stimulating the economy.

    Q. But isn’t that stimulating the economy of China ?
    A. Shut up.

    Below is some helpful advice on how to best help the US economy by spending your stimulus check wisely:

    If you spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China.
    If you spend it on gasoline it will go to Hugo Chavez, the Arabs and Al Queda
    If you purchase a computer it will go to Taiwan.
    If you purchase fruit and vegetables it will go to Mexico, Honduras, and Guatemala (unless you buy organic).
    If you buy a car it will go to Japan and Korea.
    If you purchase prescription drugs it will go to India
    If you purchase heroin it will go to the Taliban in Afghanistan
    If you give it to a charitable cause, it will go to Nigeria.

    And none of it will help the American economy. We need to keep that money here in America. You can keep the money in America by spending it at yard sales, going to a baseball game, or spend it on prostitutes, beer (domestic only), or tattoos, since those are the only businesses still in the US. "(snip)

  2. #2
    Featured Member redhothoney's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2006
    Location
    In the South
    Posts
    855
    Thanks
    17
    Thanked 134 Times in 14 Posts

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    Great Explanation! A lot of people don't think about how shopping at wal-mart versus a mom and pop shop affects the economy. But... wal-mart is so much fun!
    REDHOTHONEY

    Quote Originally Posted by MichelleJade View Post
    In my opinion, there are no normal strippers though... it's like a bag of jelly beans, they're all made of sugar but come in all different colors and flavors. (I think I'd be the root beer kind... mmmmm.)

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Alexis81's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    552
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    I enjoyed that. Thank you!
    Alexis



  4. #4
    God/dess Kylea2's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Denver & San Fran
    Posts
    6,907
    Thanks
    181
    Thanked 2,002 Times in 1,285 Posts

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    Thank goodness other people think this too! Yes, I'm all about the local farmers market and buying direct from other people in the U.S.
    Don't you ever sleep?
    Not at night...that's when the stars have rather better things to do. They're coming out, shining, that sort of thing.
    - Blog -
    My PM box fills up quick. If you have a question please with your username.
    Congrats to Pryce on doing some much needed tending in his garden!
    - -


  5. #5
    Featured Member pixierocksonthepole's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    mmhmm
    Posts
    1,798
    Thanks
    1,862
    Thanked 377 Times in 218 Posts
    Blog Entries
    13
    My Mood
    Flirty

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    Only buy american!!





  6. #6
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,493
    Thanks
    120
    Thanked 50 Times in 35 Posts

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    Don't buy Budweiser, it's Belgian now!

  7. #7
    Veteran Member missmays1983's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2008
    Location
    'Queen City'
    Posts
    233
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 33 Times in 14 Posts

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post



    You can keep the money in America by spending it at yard sales, going to a baseball game, or spend it on prostitutes, beer (domestic only), or tattoos, since those are the only businesses still in the US.

    going to see my tattoo guy tomorrow to get started on my first sleeve...



    interesting post!
    KA-KOWWW!

  8. #8
    Veteran Member person's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    633
    Thanks
    33
    Thanked 34 Times in 23 Posts

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    If you spend it on gasoline it will go to Hugo Chavez, the Arabs and Al Queda


    I am not an economist, so I don't understand what's meant to be achieved by this. As far as I can see (via the markets), the problems worldwide are (1) oshit all the banks are broke (2) oshit people are defaulting on loans due to interest rates and (3) people are losing jobs due to even nonfinancial companies having decreased profits. Rates are being cut to address problems 1 and 2, bailouts are being done to address problem 1.

    Is the "give everyone some money and tell them to spend it" meant to address problem 3? Will companies suddenly have ongoing profit and become healthier and employ more people because people bought a TV/tattoo/prostitute in 2009?
    Once again, the conservative, sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor
    - Dr John Zoidberg

  9. #9
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    well here's a much more convoluted explanation of the so-called stimulus plan



    You'll notice that it really doesn't contain any measures to truly address problem 3. What it DOES contain is billions of dollars worth of new spending for gov't to provide (more) welfare, medicaid and unemployment checks to (unskilled) American workers - whose jobs are unlikely to ever return ... and to help the states where those welfare, medicaid and unemployment payments are the highest to avoid near term bankruptcy.

    As you are probably already aware, IMHO there is no politically palatable fix for problem 3 ... at least where unskilled American workers are concerned. IMHO there is only a 'work-around' for problem 3 ... which involves ongoing wealth transfer away from skilled American workers as well as from profitable American businesses and toward unskilled Americans plus certain unprofitable American businesses which the US gov't deems worthy of taxpayer funded subsidies / bailouts. This was the predominant reason that I removed myself and my assets from the American tax juristiction ! The so-called stimulus bill ( so named by recently resigned commerce secretary nominee Judd Gregg) appears to remain consistant with this 'work-around' approach.








    Not wanting to get bogged down in the gov't policy aspects involved in the stimulus bill discussion, the following fact has much more ominous overtones in regard to your problem 3 ...

    (snip)NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- As Wall Street tracks Washington's moves to help the beleaguered banking sector and push through a massive economic stimulus, nearly 400 of the S&P's 500 companies have weighed in and reported a collective loss, even excluding the financials.

    "This is the worst; after the sixth quarter of negative growth, it will be the first quarter ever of negative earnings,"
    said Howard Silverblatt, senior index analyst, at Standard & Poor's.

    A sixth quarter of negative growth ties the prior record set when Harry Truman was president, running from the first quarter of 1951 to the second quarter of 1952.

    "Next quarter, we're expecting a new record of seven quarters of negative growth," Silverblatt added.
    As of the close of business Thursday, Silverblatt calculates S&P earnings per share, on a reported basis, at a loss of $10.44 for the quarter. If financials were taken out of the equation, that deficit would drop to $2.35 a share.

    "The majority of it is financials, but the biggest issue to hit as reported -- the worst charge -- was ConocoPhillips
    (COP 45.67, -0.53, -1.1%) , which accounted for $3.66," said Silverblatt. (snip)

    from

    You KNOW that things are bad when even an oil company loses money !!! Obviously, companies that are losing money are primarily concerned about their own survival first ... which is almost guaranteed to result in even more job losses and capital spending cutbacks ( at their US facilities at least) ... which in turn perpetuates the downward economic spiral. Because of this, a lot of analysts are of the opinion that it will continue to be a downhill slide for the remainder of 2009.


    Returning to your question of 'what is meant to achieved by this', all I can say is that the stimulus bill should defer such developments as California going bankrupt, a redux of the 'bonus march', and various other future developments involving 'pitchforks and molotov cocktails' which are already developing in other countries ... for a few more months at least.

    history lesson --->

    modern version -->

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-14-2009 at 11:33 AM.

  10. #10
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    yet more detailed analysis of the stimulus bill at ...



    (snip)"Writing in Slate, liberal commentator Mickey Kaus criticizes the stimulus bill welfare provisions as a "liberal conspiracy to expand the welfare rolls."[3] He laments, "Why use the aid specifically to encourage expansion of welfare? … At the very least the extra aid to the states shouldn't be triggered by caseload expansion. (You could, for example, give states aid in proportion to their local unemployment rate.)"[4] These are reasonable suggestions; the authors of the stimulus bills pursued a different policy precisely because they wish to overturn welfare reform and increase dependence on government.

    Welfare Spendathon

    But overturning welfare reform is just the beginning. In his recent press conference, President Obama explained that the stimulus bill would provide "tax relief" and "direct investment" in infrastructure. He neglected to mention that of the $816 billion in new spending and tax cuts in the House stimulus bill--32 percent or $264 billion--is new means-tested welfare spending, providing cash, food, housing, and medical care to poor and low income Americans.[5] (The figure in the Senate bill is about 15 percent lower.)

    In the first year after enactment of the stimulus bill, federal welfare spending will explode upward by more than 20 percent, rising from $491 billion in FY 2008 to $601 billion in FY 2009. This one-year explosion in welfare spending would be, by far, the largest in U.S. history. But spending will continue to rise even further in future years. The stimulus bill is a welfare spendathon, a massive down payment on Obama's promise to "spread the wealth."

    Hidden Welfare Spending

    While $264 billion in new welfare spending may seem like a lot, it is only the tip of the iceberg. If the stimulus bill is enacted the real long-term increase will be far higher. This is because the stimulus bill pretends that most of its welfare benefit increases will lapse after two years. In fact, both Congress and President Obama intend for most of these increases to become permanent. The claim that Congress is temporarily increasing welfare spending for Keynesian purposes (to spark the economy by boosting consumer spending) is a red herring. The real goal is a permanent expansion of the welfare system.

    The House and Senate bills contain a half dozen or more new welfare entitlements or expansions to benefits in existing programs.[6] The pretense that these welfare expansions will lapse after two years is a political gimmick designed to hide their true cost from the taxpayer. If these welfare expansions are made permanent--as history indicates they will--the welfare cost of the stimulus will rise another $523 billion over 10 years.[7]

    Once the hidden welfare spending in the bill is counted, the total 10-year cost of welfare increases will not be $264 billion but $787 billion. This new spending will amount to around $22,500 for every poor person in the U.S. The cost amounts, on average, to over $10,000 for each family paying income tax in the U.S."(snip)

  11. #11
    Veteran Member retiredangel's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Deep in the heart of...
    Posts
    313
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    Am I the only one feeling sorta' sick by all of this???

    Between this and Nadya and her babies I'm starting to feel as though I'm losing what's left of my mind...

    I appreciate the efficient manner in which you are able to define it more clearly because God knows my muck-shovel got stuck a few months ago,LOL!

    What a f-ing mess.

  12. #12
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    as to those 'sorta sick' feelings, consider the following ...

    - with 4 out of 5 S&P listed companies actually LOSING money this quarter, regardless of whether the US corporate tax rate is 40% or 30% or 20% the amount of corporate tax revenue that will actually be received by the US gov't in 2009 will be close to zero

    - with 'rich' individual investors losing big on stock market price drops, real estate price drops, Madoff scams. etc., and with the 'hot' investment sector now being gov't bonds (which are tax free to varying degrees), regardless of whether the US top individual tax rate is 39% or 36% or 33% the amount of 'rich' individual income tax revenue that will actually be received by the US gov't in 2009 will be at a historic lows.

    - with gov't spending heading for unprecedented high levels, and with corporate as well as 'rich' individual tax revenues heading for unprecedented low levels, what options does the gov't have to 'exploit' alternate sources of revenue ? I can only think of two ... printing new money (and devaluing the savings / investments of every American in the process), or increasing taxes on those Americans who still have significant incomes but who do not have large investment losses to offset their incomes ( or who could not afford to invest in tax free gov't bonds at $50k or $100k apiece).

    The latter is already happening in states like California and New York i.e. 'temporary' increases in state income tax rates ... with the effects likely to fall squarely on both dancers as well as club customers i.e. 'middle class' annual earnings in the $75k+ per year ballpark ! California and New York are also implementing sales tax increases which arguably affect everyone equally, but in reality the increases in social program benefits included in the stimulus package will increase benefits to the poor while 'middle class' dancers and customers won't be receiving any similar 'pay' increase. Again, I don't want Dollar Den discussion to swing too far towards the political, but the financial reality is that the exotic dancing industry (like every other business offering 'non-essential' goods and services to 'middle class' customers) is going to pay a heavy price for this stimulus package.

  13. #13
    Veteran Member person's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    633
    Thanks
    33
    Thanked 34 Times in 23 Posts

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    Quote Originally Posted by retiredangel View Post
    Am I the only one feeling sorta' sick by all of this???
    Remember that although many of us say things as if they were facts, as fallible humans we are likely biased, leaving out or forgetting important information and/or just plain wrong. Do your own reading of various sources and your own educated reasoning.

    I'm pretty sure parts of this whole "economic stimulus" thing makes sense... I just don't get it for the most part
    Once again, the conservative, sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor
    - Dr John Zoidberg

  14. #14
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    This has GOT to be a joke or a collection of ignorant, conservative Limbaugh-esque stereotypes....

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Q. What is an Economic Stimulus Payment?
    A. It is money that the federal government will send to taxpayers.
    PARTLY TRUE. Lots will go to businesses to get real (non-financial) work done.

    Q. Where will the government get this money?
    A. From taxpayers.[/quote] FALSE, see next

    Q. So the government is giving me back my own money?
    A. No, they are borrowing it from China. Your children are expected to repay the Chinese.
    TRUE

    Q. What is the purpose of this payment?
    A. The plan is that you will use the money to purchase a high-definition TV set, thus stimulating the economy.
    PARTLY FALSE. $40 if you spend the other $10-20 plus $90-100 for a new antenna.

    Q. But isn’t that stimulating the economy of China ?
    A. Shut up.
    TRUE. That idea came from GEORGE W BUSH !!!!


    If you spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China.
    TRUE MOSTLY

    If you spend it on gasoline it will go to Hugo Chavez, the Arabs and Al Queda.
    MOSTLY FALSE. Most oil comes from North Sea, Texas, Canada, some from Middle East and Nigeria. See http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Crude-...-14367525.html

    If you purchase a computer it will go to Taiwan.
    PARTLY TRUE. For components; distribution costs and retail markup go to USA

    If you purchase fruit and vegetables it will go to Mexico, Honduras, and Guatemala (unless you buy organic).
    TRUE only during Winter.

    If you buy a car it will go to Japan and Korea.
    PARTLY TRUE DEPENDING ON THE CAR. You can still buy American, unless the Republicans have their way and destroy this basic industry and the UAW commite suicide.

    If you purchase prescription drugs it will go to India
    FALSE. New Jersey mostly

    If you purchase heroin it will go to the Taliban in Afghanistan.
    TRUE. Just complete your suicide efforts and let the rest of us be done with your financial habit.

    If you give it to a charitable cause, it will go to Nigeria.
    FALSE. Stupid

    And none of it will help the American economy. We need to keep that money here in America. You can keep the money in America by spending it at yard sales, going to a baseball game, or spend it on prostitutes, beer (domestic only), or tattoos, since those are the only businesses still in the US. "(snip)
    FALSE. What do you think prostitutes spend their money on? Hint: Colombia. BMW. Diamonds. (My own stereotype.)
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  15. #15
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    well here's a much more convoluted explanation of the so-called stimulus plan
    What is problem #3?

    Can you actually READ that chart. Even in the refernced article I cannot read more than 3 words in a row before my eyes glaze over.

    As usual your explanation shows how overblown your concern is over welfare-like payments.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  16. #16
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    You will note, however, that if Clinton's economic policies were followed by the next administration, they resultant cumulative government surplus would have covered all this spending. That is, if such a foolish disaster had been allowed to occur in the first place.

    This problem given to Obama by Bush was almost all Bush's adminstation's doing. And that is the conservative side of things, which is not conservative at all but laissez-faire to big business and reactionary to the populace.

    I hazard to say (with little risk) that if Gore had been allowed to win, NONE of this horrid idiotic Bush mess would have occurred. The USA would have been flourishing, as well as much of the rest of the world.

    I am an independent, middle-of-the roader politically. I am for congressional term limits of from 18 - 24 years, and I am for a large increase in Congressional staff with greatly limited access by the lobby and required minimum number of congressman-manned office hours at their home office. They got in office to be responsible; let's require them to be responsible.

    No representation without representation!
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  17. #17
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    (puts on moderator's hat) ... one of the long-standing tenets of Dollar Den, as opposed to Political Poo or Member's Area or now Social Groups, is that political commentary must be at least somewhat directly associated with financial facts. If I'm going to hold myself to this standard in Dollar Den (thus saving my 99.9% political rants for Social Groups) it's not unreasonable to expect the same from other posters. ... (takes off moderator's hat)


    - yes, obviously, my original snippet from ritholz was a bit hyperbolic. But it did reference a whole bunch of financial facts in regard to the stimulus package i.e. the US gov't borrowing the additional money to fund the stimulus package from China, placing the repayment burden on future US taxpayers over the course of the next 30 years, multiple questions regarding how much actual stimulation of various sectors of the US economy versus foreign economies is likely to result, etc.

    - sorry for the small graphic. There are many others now available, such as However large or small print, this does not change the financial fact pointed out by Slate's Mickey Klaus that 32% = $264 billion of stimulus bill spending will be directed towards increased social spending .

    - problem #3 describes American companies no longer being able to earn a profit, and as a result millions of American workers are now losing their jobs. Arguably the stimulus package does little or nothing to help American companies become more profitable, with the exception of those specific companies who will receive specifically targeted gov't subsidies i.e. alternative energy and 'prevailing wage' construction contractors.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-16-2009 at 11:47 AM.

  18. #18
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    ^^ Facts can be interpreted. However, interpretations cannnot become facts, no matter how cleverly they are presented. I didn't notice any facts in the OP snippet.

    Thanks for a source of a readable graphic and a definition of problem #3..
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  19. #19
    Featured Member Ms. Mia Roberts's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2008
    Location
    sucksville
    Posts
    844
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 22 Times in 20 Posts

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    hopefully most of america will not be dumb with thier stimulus check and will use the money to pay off thier debts. Like credit card debts (from american companies) and tuition loans.

    I kno i am

    then they can become consumers...





    Quote Originally Posted by Emily View Post
    If they are spending money, we don't call them stalkers. We call them Regulars.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miss_Luscious View Post
    Fuck these people, seriously. Fuck them in the ass without lube or warning.
    LMAO!!!!

  20. #20
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    Now that I can read the chart, how is the following conclusion arrived at? "...billions of dollars worth of new spending for gov't to provide (more) welfare, medicaid and unemployment checks to (unskilled) American workers - whose jobs are unlikely to ever return ... and to help the states where those welfare, medicaid and unemployment payments are the highest to avoid near term bankruptcy." Specifically the 264B$.

    And...."the stimulus package does little or nothing to help American companies become more profitable, with the exception of those specific companies who will receive specifically targeted gov't subsidies i.e. alternative energy and 'prevailing wage' construction contractors."

    If the Republicans can use the trickle down theory, then the Democrats can use it also.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  21. #21
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    ^^^ good question ... and very deserving of a good answer.

    - first, as explained at the WaPo link, the CBO interprets nearly $100 billion of the 'tax cuts' provisions to be NEW social spending ... since this money is being paid to people who don't actually pay income taxes in the first place

    - second is a large portion of the $87 billion of 'medicaid assistance', which is intended to make unemployed people eligible for medicaid despite the fact that their annual income / personal assets would have otherwise rendered them ineligible

    - then you've got a direct $20 billion for addiional Food Stamp benefits plus a direct $7.5 billion for 'other family assistance' benefits

    - then you've got some portion of the $79 billion education and 'other budget needs' grant package to states which will wind up being directed towards additional social spending at the state level

    - then you also have some portion of the $20 billion health and human services money, as well as a direct $17 billion for additional Pell Grants

    lots of detail regarding the smaller social spending 'subdivisions' at


    As to the 'trickle down' theory, yes jobs will be created or preserved. But these are public sector jobs administering gov't programs or publicly funded private sector construction jobs ... both of which merely recycle tax money instead of creating new tax revenue from private sector activity. Arguably this is the 'fatal flaw' of FDResque public spending stimulus efforts ... because no new 'wealth' is created by the expanded public sector while those private sector business activities that ARE creating wealth are saddled with an additional burden.


    hopefully most of america will not be dumb with thier stimulus check and will use the money to pay off thier debts. Like credit card debts (from american companies) and tuition loans. I kno i am
    I agree that this is a very sound policy. However, this is exactly what the gov't does NOT want to happen, since money spent paying off debts does not create new demand and thus does not stimulate new business activity. Money spent paying off debts merely flows to the big banks ... who in turn refuse to lend it out for risky personal or business loans ... and probably winds up being invested in Treasury bills which create an additional (interest payment) burden on US taxpayers !

  22. #22
    Featured Member
    Joined
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    961
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    You will note, however, that if Clinton's economic policies were followed by the next administration, they resultant cumulative government surplus would have covered all this spending. That is, if such a foolish disaster had been allowed to occur in the first place.

    We never had a real surplus. Go to the Treasury Dept's website, and you will see debt for each of those years. The only way to show a surplus, was by doing creative accounting, ala WorldCom and Enron (which both happened under the Creative Accountants reign).

    Also, by your logic, Dubya shouldn't have responded to 9/11, ala Clinton in 3/93, and many more instances during his admin.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
    Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness
    The note that began all can also destroy

  23. #23
    Featured Member Vamp's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,111
    Thanks
    271
    Thanked 757 Times in 289 Posts

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    ...."the stimulus package does little or nothing to help American companies become more profitable, with the exception of those specific companies who will receive specifically targeted gov't subsidies i.e. alternative energy and 'prevailing wage' construction contractors."


    So the 600 million for Small Business grants and loans will do nothing to help make American companies more profitable? The requirement that if the funds are used for construction projects, labor and materials need to be from American labor and materials, will not make any profits for American companies?

    If anyone wants to see the Stimulus Bill here is a link to it
    http://www.rules.house.gov/111/LegText/111_hr1_text.pdf

    It is easy to generlize when the facts arent known.
    Nature knows no indecencies; man invents them. ~ Mark Twain


  24. #24
    God/dess Paris's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    6,345
    Thanks
    168
    Thanked 801 Times in 419 Posts

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Mia Roberts View Post
    hopefully most of america will not be dumb with thier stimulus check and will use the money to pay off thier debts. Like credit card debts (from american companies) and tuition loans.

    I kno i am

    then they can become consumers...
    Actually, the fact that people are paying down debt and increasing their savings is part of the problem.

    I think the whole mess is sardonically amusing. As if any society larger than the population of a monastery that is isolated in Tibet would be self policing, much less the financial behemoths of Wall Street. Our elected officials (on both sides of the aisle) are financially illiterate and therefore keep throwing cash at a problem that is bigger than most people can understand.

    It will get worse before it gets better. Look at what is happening in Japan! The current stimulus plan is a band aid, and the economic crisis is a sucking chest wound. Ultimately, we are going to have to nationalize our banking system, probably permanently this time. The party is over, and it ain't likely that the banks will be given the opportunity to fuck up the country again.

    We just have to face up to the problem that if left to their own devices, people will choose greed over altruism every time. I'm sick of the cycle of bubbles, and I think most of the world is sick of the bubble cycle, as well. After every bubble, we are just a little bit worse off than before. This time is bad. Very bad.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


  25. #25
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: Stimulus Package explained ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ good question ... and very deserving of a good answer.
    My consideration and comments later.

    As to the 'trickle down' theory, yes jobs will be created or preserved. But these are public sector jobs administering gov't programs or publicly funded private sector construction jobs ... both of which merely recycle tax money instead of creating new tax revenue from private sector activity. Arguably this is the 'fatal flaw' of FDResque public spending stimulus efforts ... because no new 'wealth' is created by the expanded public sector while those private sector business activities that ARE creating wealth are saddled with an additional burden.
    Govt administration is certainbly overhead to the GNP/GDP etc. However, you neglect to consider that the infrastucture jobs, for instance, require that actual work be done, producing tangible, lasting results. Govt oversight of that will be no more than it has been previously. Products created and paid for are 'wealth.' If you mean by wealth that it increases someone's investment account, well, that is not producing anything at that time. Yeah, the financial industry can take that money and spend it on something (office furniture) or reinvest it into another company's capital needs, or they can spend their profit on junkets, unless they took the TARP money. So some of that could be productive. Money in itself is not wealth; products and the ability to spend money for products is wealth because they are durable and tangible. Theoretically one could invest in, say iridium (which is a product), which say is costly now; but if iridium becomes very cheap, your money is gone; you then have no pseudo-wealth.

    I agree that this is a very sound policy. However, this is exactly what the gov't does NOT want to happen, since money spent paying off debts does not create new demand and thus does not stimulate new business activity....to the big banks ... who in turn refuse to lend it out for risky personal or business loans .... !
    True, that. and that is why previous stimulus tax 'refunds' did so little good, as will this wimpy one too. Yerah, I know you are cynical about the small-fry getting anything from the government. However, if you were one who lost your job or are seriously worried, every little bit helps, even if only a little.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-13-2010, 08:21 PM
  2. Krugman and Stimulus Package
    By NWoD in forum Dollar Den
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 11-01-2009, 02:00 PM
  3. Bailout Explained
    By xanfiles1 in forum Dollar Den
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-03-2008, 12:58 PM
  4. I explained it like this.
    By Mare in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-20-2008, 02:47 AM
  5. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 06-06-2008, 02:48 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •