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Thread: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

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    Default This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    Ex-stripper with AIDS fights ouster


    Thai woman jailed for giving husband HIV pleads for lesser sentence to stave off deportation

    A former stripper with advanced AIDS who faces deportation to her native Thailand is asking the Ontario Court of Appeal to reduce her prison sentence by even just one day, saying it could mean the difference between life and death.

    "I'm really scared," said Suwalee Iamkhong, 39, who was convicted and sentenced to two years in a penitentiary in 2007 for transmitting HIV to her husband, Percy Whiteman, whom she met while dancing at Toronto's Zanzibar Tavern.

    She was ordered deported on Dec. 16 but remains entangled in a complex web of legal proceedings, where timing is everything.

    As long as Iamkhong's sentence remains two years or longer, she is considered, under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, to have been convicted of "serious criminality" with no right to appeal the deportation order.

    Had her sentence been just 24 hours shorter two years less a day in a provincial institution she would have a right of appeal.

    In an interview with the Star, Iamkhong, who has also been stripped of permanent residency status, said she's afraid she will not obtain specialized AIDS medication in Thailand and will be ostracized in her village.

    Her lawyers are expecting a decision today from the Immigration and Refugee Board on whether she can be free until a date is set for her deportation

    Iamkhong's appeal from her conviction and sentence is scheduled for March 24, but she could be removed from Canada as soon as citizenship documents are obtained from the Thai government, said her lawyer, Elizabeth Long.

    Meanwhile, Whiteman is suing Iamkhong and the federal government for allowing her into Canada. The lawsuit may be in jeopardy if she's kicked out.

    Before the appeals court, Philip Campbell, Iamkhong's criminal lawyer, is seeking either a stay of the charges, a new trial or a sentence reduction of at least one day. The trial judge, Todd Ducharme, engaged in "circular reasoning" and misunderstood the evidence, he argues in court documents.

    Campbell's client, who arrived in Canada on a work visa in 1995, was skeptical of a test previously conducted in a "ramshackle" Hong Kong lab showing she was HIV positive and concluded she did not have HIV after undergoing blood tests in Canada for her visa renewal.

    At the trial, Ducharme didn't believe Iamkhong thought she was HIV negative, saying anyone faced with conflicting results would have had more tests.

    But Ducharme's conclusions about how a normal person would behave was based on his belief Iamkhong was in doubt about the results, when in fact she was confident she didn't have the virus, Campbell said.

  2. #2
    SpeakngEZ
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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    I don't know why they had to mention that she had been a stripper. That's kind of irrelevant. . . .

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    Veteran Member justifymylove's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    Quote Originally Posted by SpeakngEZ View Post
    I don't know why they had to mention that she had been a stripper. That's kind of irrelevant. . . .
    ^^ Exactly. The case really has nothing to do with her FORMER job except that they met at the club, but saying she's an ex-stripper adds the extra layer of salaciousness that makes the story enticing and gives people an easy explanation of her supposed character. Yeesh. I wonder how long you have to be 'retired' from the job before you stop being defined by it??

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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    mentioning that it's how they met, to me, just makes him look like an asshole taking advantage of a foreign woman. he was looking for a stereotypical asian wife. oops. fuck him.
    -love everyone but keep them far from your soul-

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    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    ^^ She did, and he got it....

    The problem is hers. But the article didn't state that she knew, or should have known, that she was infected before they fucked. Maybe the court knows, but that article is not ocmplete. Just a nit-picking point.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Veteran Member justifymylove's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    ^^ She did, and he got it....

    The problem is hers. But the article didn't state that she knew, or should have known, that she was infected before they fucked. Maybe the court knows, but that article is not ocmplete. Just a nit-picking point.
    You're right, the article is a little unclear. The ruling was based on this: she tested HIV-positive in a lab in Hong Kong, but did not believe the results. Then she assumed that she had been tested for HIV for immigration purposes, and when she didn't hear anything, she assumed she was in the clear. However, this was well before Canada started screening for HIV so the story is a little suspect- even if she had tested negative in a subsequent test (so the judge ruled), it is unreasonable to assume that conflicting results mean that you are HIV-free.

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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    I dont see how being a stripper is related to the incident

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    God/dess velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    yea well check out the op's screen name.
    As quoted by Luckyone:
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    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    Quote Originally Posted by Cartwright View Post
    I dont see how being a stripper is related to the incident
    The connection is to drag out some more money from the papers' possible customers. And that's it. Nada.

    There are lots of things that give stripping a bad name to the general populace, but that's not one of them. Streetwalkers, maybe, but not dancers.
    Last edited by threlayer; 02-24-2009 at 11:50 AM.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    It looks like she came to Canada in 2005 and tested positive around then.
    She was still stripping in 2007 when she met her boyfriend and infected him.
    Don't know when she stopped, other than in the last two years and since then has advanced AIDS.

    I posted this as this is probably the only thing in that paper about strippers, and if this is all people see......

    The more important question is how do you get articles that give stripping a good name published.

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    [quote=hasnosweatpants;1782704
    The more important question is how do you get articles that give stripping a good name published.[/quote]

    It is definately difficult. That is on par with getting good stories about cannabis published. Sure medical marijuana is helping a lot of sick people, but you only ever hear about drug cartels, kids getting busted smoking pot and gang violence around pot.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    ^^ So tell me how medical stripping will help me.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Featured Member Otoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    My only response to this article was rolling my eyes. Apparently you can get AIDS from being a stripper. That must be the connection they're making, because otherwise it's completely irrelevant and...

    Sigh.

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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    Maybe they're trying to say that all strippers have AIDS and that's where the epidemic is coming from. *shrug* either way its an ignorant article.


    The club I used to work for would raise almost $100k every year for MS research and relief. Never once did it make the paper. The night the one dancer ran over a guy in the parking lot of the bar down the street it was on every front page in the state. *shrugs* The supposed "Liberal" media doesn't treat strippers as contributing members of society but as parasites, like gang members, who need to be eradicated before we influence their precious children to believe women are sexy and sex is okay, because sex leads to AIDS.

    ~K

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    God/dess Golden_Rule's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    Quote Originally Posted by SpeakngEZ View Post
    I don't know why they had to mention that she had been a stripper. That's kind of irrelevant. . . .
    As the article states, they met in a strip-club.

    If they had met at a grocery they might very well have said, "he met the former grocery clerk at Shopwell..."

    Besides, it is factual while also being titillating. I never met a newspaper or television news editor yet that didn't eat that sort of shit up with a spoon.
    Fiat justitia, pereat mundus.


    BTW, while we are on the subject, is it needed to point out the obvious: That it is just possible that if you are willing to judge the worth of someone simply by what you read on a website about them it might say a whole hell of a lot more about you than it says about the person you are judging?

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    Featured Member Otoki's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden_Rule View Post
    As the article states, they met in a strip-club.

    If they had met at a grocery they might very well have said, "he met the former grocery clerk at Shopwell..."

    Besides, it is factual while also being titillating. I never met a newspaper or television news editor yet that didn't eat that sort of shit up with a spoon.
    I highly doubt that if they'd met somewhere as mundane as a grocery store that the article would have mentioned it. While a stripclub itself can be titillating as an idea, I definitely thing there's a bit of "see how irresponsible/inconsiderate/selfish strippers are?" vibe in this article.

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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    The Zanzibar strip club is one of the clubs in Toronto with the worst reputation in the city, having worked in this city for two years, I have heard remarkable stories from former customers and dancers about how disrespectful the management and staff are towards the patrons and employees. I have also experienced first hand the same rudeness and low life behaviour of management. This conservative minded reporter writing this article for the paper is using the scumiest club in the city as pure ammunition for their private hatred for all the industry, maybe they need a raise and a little a self esteem boast...lol.

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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    This article is no real surprise, as it is a fine example of how the media, and public in general perceive this industry. It is a sex business, and as such, it is treated as taboo. There are no bad or worse taboos, just taboos. Porn, stripping and drug use all effect the same response from readers - it's bad.
    Nevermind that dancers have been treated as less than human-beings for some time now. But, what makes it worse is that they are treated like less-than-equals by the DJs (I'll link to an article backing myself up on this), the bouncers (of which I was one), and by the male managers (This doesn't necessarily always seem to be the case when there are female managers, but I've seen good and bad.
    I've not been in the industry for years now (2001 was my last job in the clubs) but my wife has just started as a dancer, and I have been trying my best to help her keep a clear picture in her mind about what she's doing. She's not breaking any laws, she's making money, meeting new people and having a lot of fun along the way. What's wrong with that?
    We live in Upstate, SC, and are close to bob Jones University. Those of you who are not from the South probably don't know about Dr. Bob Jones IV, but he is the head of the Southern Baptist Coalition, and is the most conservative religious leader who actually has a voice in the government. This is one reason why the south is called the Bible Belt, and Bob Jones University is the buckle. In this very conservative setting, the clubs are run and treated differently than some of the other towns in which I have worked, such as Louisville, KY. Here, if you serve alcohol, you can't have a fully nude club; you are strictly mandated; and are constantly living under the threat of having an undercover SLED officer coming in and trying to set you up to do something stupid. The clubs here are dark, are commonly hidden from the eye, and are not spoken about. You see no advertisements, only hear radio ads on the most progressive of rock stations, and only see them on TV if they are in trouble.

    The thing that causes us a problem is the people who do come in and cause issues. The sexual deviants who are only looking to find an easy "target", the girls who use and sell any kind of illegal drugs they can find right in the club, and the husbands of women who don't understand that their husbands AREN'T there to have sex, but to indulge in fantasies that they will never get to have in real life, and that having that fantasy acted out actually keeps many of them from cheating.... not all of them, but many.
    After I left the industry, I went into restaurant management. I had a habit of hiring former dancers, regardless of the other server's opinions. They though that they were "bad girls" and it was spoken about quietly and as if they had the plague. I explained my actions like this, always: "In the restaurant industry, we sell food. As servers, you have to sell yourself to your customers. They need to think that you are their main focus of attention, and that their needs will be taken care of. Dancers are the world's best salespeople. They have to be whatever their customer wants them to be. The sell themselves to 50 customers a night, and make more money there in a night than any of you here make in a week. They are consummate sales persons, and I personally think them more capable of doing this job than 99% of the servers who walk through these doors everyday." Funny thing is, I usually end up being right. They outsell the established servers within their first month.
    A lot of dancers are mothers and students. They don't do drugs, and are working there because they can't find a job anywhere else that is going to pay them fairly. Women have to take jobs making less than men for doing the same, and often times more, work. They get treated like objects, and like they are there just to be looked at. Their opinions are overlooked and scoffed at. Most of them have more common sense about raising children than people in so-called "regular" jobs. I've seen Nanny 911 several times. I've never seen an episode where the mother was a dancer.
    It's probably wishful thinking that dance clubs will ever be treated as a respectable business, and their employees treated as working-class citizens. Sure, many of the bouncers, DJs and male Managers are f*tards, but the women there can work circles around most anyone, and are better parents and people than most of the other people I've worked with.

    I'm sorry that you ladies have to constantly endure this kind of criticism.

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    Member Ryleigh's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    everyone, this is my hubby. he's kinda long-winded lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysondra View Post
    Hey, lapdances cost at LEAST 5 chickens. If you be offering them for one chicken, you be lowballin' girl.
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    I just like to be able to point out that my heels are probably bigger than a guy's penis if I get provoked...

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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    ^^ He seems pretty knowledgeable about the club scene but not so much in the real world (strip clubs are not the real world). Hopefully his conversation with his server staff while he was a manager and subject to many laws was much more vague and allegorical and was stated as such. I mean, in the real world those sort of statements could potentially set you up for discrimination, sexual harassment and all sorts of other law suits.

    FBR
    Last edited by FBR; 03-22-2009 at 02:52 PM.
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    Veteran Member bexxx's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    I kind of feel sorry for her, I dont know..she doesnt deserve death?..prison though probably.

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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    In my opinion, Strips clubs are very much the real world. The world is obsessed with sex, and sex sells, period. As far as sexual harassment, no. I would never say anything to an employee that would create a hostile work environment. My statements to the servers were more to make them realize that their position wasn't just taking orders and refilling drinks, but SELLING stuff. They sell larger dinners, drinks from the bar and deserts. We all sell ourselves everyday. It's what makes us money. Either you're going to have the reputation of a great, good, average or bad employee, a fair or unfair businessman, etc.

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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    Cap, I'm sure you wouldn't. My point was just an observation and admitted surprise that as a manager (and considering the legal restraints management and business owners operate under) you would gather up a group of civilian servers and even hint that they should be more like strippers and have the same hustle. Way too many legal sticker bushes. I actually agree with you philosophically in terms of the work ethic but I would never be as bold as you to just say it. Any who, good post and carry on.

    FBR
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    new update on the story

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    Default Re: This is the kind of thing that gives strippers a bad name

    Ooh don't go to Zanzibar's on Yonge St. You;ll get AIDS from the strippers there.

    *rollseyes*

    ~K

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