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Thread: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

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    Featured Member Kaiyla's Avatar
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    Default Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    ve been with my guy for four years. We've been through a lot together and have overcome a lot of issues as well...except for one issue; he is not sure he ever wants to get married. I've had an "idea" about this for years, but he confirmed it verbally last weekend ("I'm not sure I'll EVER want to get married."). To some degree, I understand this. We are both products of divorced families, with his Mom being divorced three times. Since moving to L.A. together, we have no friends around us that are happily married, but it seems that everyone around us is getting a divorce, including his sister. Fucking figures, of course. So there's not a lot of "happy vibes" about marriage going on around us right now.
    My guy is hell bent on NEVER having to go through a divorce. That's what he says is at the core of this issue for him.

    I do want to get married. I'm 30..not sure if I ever want kids, but am a total sap. Marriage is such a romantic gesture; the thought of someone asking you to spend the rest of your life with them is really beautiful. I do want that. The thing is, do I want it bad enough to end a relationship that is really great, otherwise? He does not seem like he is going to budge on this, and says the probability of him proposing within a year or two is unlikely. Could happen, but unlikely.

    The thing that hurts is that he actually suggested that we should "go look at rings," a few months ago. Now he doesn't know if he ever wants to get married. I have an idea that this change of heart might have been because I was too pushy about marriage in between then and now. Plus, I'm not the easiest person to live with; I have my quirks and difficulties. Maybe the combo of these two things scared him off of it. Still, the change of heart hurts, and I'd be lying if I said I was not feeling some resentment toward him right now. He never should have said anything about looking for rings. it feels like a betrayal in some way.

    I feel it's worth mentioning again, this issue aside; this guy is really great; supportive, loving, genuinely caring, and is bent on making sure that I am happy. I don't want to leave him, but I'm scared that eventually I will want to get married badly, and what if he's still not there yet? What would you guys do?

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    Featured Member Kaiyla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    wow..no one?

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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    Tell him you'd like to have an open relationship instead. That way you could see other guys/girls whatever, and perhaps meet a more suitable partner.

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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    Even though your partner can't commit to marrying you, it seems he's committed to you in every other way as described by you. There are many couples, married or not, who don't reach that level of commitment. Best wishes!

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    Featured Member vivianbear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    I don't think fear of divorce is a good enough excuse to refuse to be married. If you have a fear of divorce, see a councilor or learn to problem-solve better. Not every little fight a couple has will lead to divorce.
    I hope you get what you want. I got married very quickly to my husband (five weeks after we met) and haven't had a day of regret. I now feel sorry for friends of mine who seem trapped in relationships with a partner who has no intention of committing to marriage even though that's ultimately what the other inevitably wants (and is waiting for). Remember, its your life, too. Don't let his insecurities get in the way of your path to happiness.
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    Moderator charlie61's Avatar
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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    I have a plethora of reasons for being personally against marriage...including the fact that it's a discriminatory institution that I feel no desire to endorse or even participate in (why again can't gay people get married?).

    Your problem comes down to two options.

    1) You love him enough to stay with him and compromise based on both of your belief systems (you wanting to get married is no more valid than his desire to NOT get married).
    or
    2) You put so much weight on a piece of paper that you must find another love of your life to replace him just so you can officially declare your love.

    The choice is clear, yes?

    I'd respectfully encourage you to re-examine your motives for getting married. Why not hold a commitment ceremony or something instead? Why is it that you place so much value on involving the law in your relationship? Could you just buy rings, pledge your love privately to one another, and be happy? Could you stage a wedding but not involve the state? Find out what it is he's afraid of.

    You don't seem to value his reasons for avoiding marriage--but there are SO many people who hold his same opinion. Talk to the man! Communication is key here. :o)

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    Featured Member Brooke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    It seems to me that you have a good man who is genuinely committed to loving you. Here's what I would do if I were you: pretend that you KNEW without a shadow of a doubt that you would never be married. (Honestly, I read your post, and that seems like the truth you don't want to believe.) When you think of your life if he never marries you, think about the possible outcomes. Is that a long-term loving relationship with out the legalities? Is that a year or two more before you can break up without the hassle of a divorce? What if you have children together? Think about your life together NOT married, and see how you feel. If you still think its a pretty good life together, I think that answers your question. If you see missing out on things that are important to you, that's your answer.

    At this time, all the information you have is that he doesn't want to get married ever. If you twist that into something more palettable, you are not making a decision based upon the right criteria. If you made the decision based upon a hope he will feel differently in a few years, you are setting yourself up for failure. Make a decision based upon the facts and you are more likely to make the best decision for you. We all know that we can't change people. Can you accept a life with him the way he is?

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    Featured Member Brooke's Avatar
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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    Marriage is NOT just a piece of paper. Its a legally binding contract that everyone else has to respect as well - judges, medical professionals, life insurance, etc. And varying by state to state its more or less important. So let's just get that out on the table... its not about a piece of paper.

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    Moderator charlie61's Avatar
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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    ^^ No no no you misunderstood me. I wasn't belittling marriage...I was emphasizing the whole "bringing the law into the bedroom" part of it.

    I'm currently dating someone who is going through a divorce AND has children. I am definitely, definitely aware that marriage is much more than a piece of paper! Thanks for catching that though.

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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    Ok, so i have an idea. IF you want to get married but he doesn't want to go through a divorce, why don't you guys have a ceremony or a hand fasting but not sign any legal papers? Its like being married, but you are not on paper.




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    Featured Member Kaiyla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    These are all really great responses. This is so tough, probably one of the biggest decisions I'll ever make. I would be lying if I said that I am not hoping that in a year or two, he will change his mind. He always tells me how "so and so dated for___years before they were married." Meaning, he wants to "court" for a long time definitely.
    He told me that we can do all of the things that married people do, he wants to continue to progress forward.
    He suggested that maybe he could see a professional to try to work out his marriage issues. I thought this was a good idea.
    More later, he just walked in.

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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    ^ Before going to a professional, I'd encourage you to try to talk him through his problems. Which part is he afraid of? The legal aspect of it? If so, that's completely understandable--divorce can suck some couples dry if things go wrong. The formality of it? That's also reasonable--sometimes the formality of marriage can change relationships in negative ways. Etc, Etc, Etc...

    There are so many reasons he could be feeling this way! Try not to approach him with the mindset that your way of thinking is the right way. Try to get inside his head and understand him!

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    Featured Member Kaiyla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    Brooke, you're right, he really is a good man. That's why this decision is so tough. If I pretend like we'll never get married, it's actually okay...up until a point. Whether I reach that point in two years, four years, whatever. Not being married to him eventually is going to hurt me and probably breed more resentment. I don't mind not being married in a year or what not, but I know it's something that I'll eventually want. I just really was looking forward to it with him.
    Charlie, I'm going to do what you said and really try to get into his head. From what I know so far, he says that it's the concept of marriage and how you make a promise, but then when there is divorce, "the promise means nothing." He also feels like he is not where he wants to be right now, and it doesn't make him feel like making other drastic moves in his life. We moved to L.A. so he could try to break into acting. If I wait until he's successful and is finally feeling "great" about himself, who knows how long that will take. He also says divorce is "messy." Well no kidding. Messy kind of like me moving to L.A. with no job, no future prospects, and a brother resenting me for leaving our ill father. Life is messy, so that excuse isn't good enough....for me.
    I just wish I could look down the line and see if we gave it more time, if he'd be ready someday. If not, I don't know if I can do this. After 4 years, that really hurts too.

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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    ^ Sounds like a good plan.

    While you're at it, perhaps you should also re-examine why it is you want to get married. What does marriage mean to you?

    When it comes down to it, marriage is just the involvement of the law in your personal relationship...which isn't exactly romantic. Are there other ways you two could pledge your commitment to each other without involving this institution?

    Furthermore, it's possible that you two are speaking different languages here. You see his avoidance of marriage as a lack of commitment on his part, whereas in all actuality, it may have little to do with that. And he may see your insistence upon marriage as a way of legalizing what you already have, whereas you see it as a romantic gesture of commitment. Do you see what I'm saying? It sounds like you're both operating on different levels when it comes to marriage.

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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    I'm in a similar situation. I'm 29 and been with bf for ( gulp ) ..... 6 years. This is unheard of in my home area where marriages happen fast and it's not uncommon for women to bail within 6 months if there aren't promises of a ring soon. So .... I'm also figuring out what to do. I never really wanted to be married in my 20's .... but I didn't really "See " myself unmarried in my 30's either.
    I don't know what to recommend because I'm trying to figure this stuff out myself .

    I KNOW what you mean about wanting to have him WANT to commit to you for life. The gesture ( life commitment ) and him saying it means a lot . I don't want a big wedding and the whole idea does seem a little old fashioned, but I DO want a partner who wants me for life.

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    Featured Member Kaiyla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    Pookie, that sounds like an idea that I might have to go with, if we are to never marry. I shouldn't make it sounds negative, because it's a celebration of love, and that should be a positive thing...it's just that I always envisioned the real deal. blahhh...
    Carmen, I sympathize with you..keep us updated on your situation.

    I wrote him a letter while I was at work this morning, letting him know that I do want to get married someday, but that I will try to exercise patience in the meantime. I just pray that he will want marriage someday, otherwise I'm going to be brokenhearted...not to mention like 35, single, with my cute years fading quickly, while all the other good men are taken. Ugh..I know that was melodramatic.

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    Featured Member aviendha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    I think it's a mistake to assume that he has some kind of psychological issue because he doesn't want to get married. He doesn't want to marry you, you want to marry him, it's that simple. You have a choice: wait for him to change his mind (which, in my opinion, is a mistake, because he has told you flat-out he has no plans to marry you), or leave. If I were you, I would just cut my losses.

    And speaking as someone who really doesn't find the prospect of marriage appealing, but who keeps an open mind in case the most awesome person ever comes along, I will say this: if I'm dating someone, and the subject of marriage comes up (which it thankfully rarely does), if I tell them I have no interest in getting married, it is definitely because I already know I won't be marrying THEM.

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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    I was thinking about this thread recently. Are you totally in love with him ? I don't want to thread jack, but it's a basic question and I ( don't think ) you answered it yet. I'll give more info abouto my own situation in another thread or after you answer.

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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    Quote Originally Posted by aviendha View Post
    I think it's a mistake to assume that he has some kind of psychological issue because he doesn't want to get married. He doesn't want to marry you, you want to marry him, it's that simple. You have a choice: wait for him to change his mind (which, in my opinion, is a mistake, because he has told you flat-out he has no plans to marry you), or leave. If I were you, I would just cut my losses.

    And speaking as someone who really doesn't find the prospect of marriage appealing, but who keeps an open mind in case the most awesome person ever comes along, I will say this: if I'm dating someone, and the subject of marriage comes up (which it thankfully rarely does), if I tell them I have no interest in getting married, it is definitely because I already know I won't be marrying THEM.
    Exactly!!! Soooo true.

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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    Someone mentioned, well several people mentioned the legality of marriage -

    Have you thought of what sort of legal benefits marriage has? Taxes, Insurance.. etc.
    What happens if he ( or yourself ) dies. Then what.. God forbid that ever happens. I'm just playing devils advocate here. It is something to consider.

    Love is wonderful, romance should always be in a relationship. Then again, the hard cold truth is that promises of love wont feed you.

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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    I'm in a similar boat. It sucks because I know I want to even though I totally get the objection side too. I too need to examine my own marriage fantasy before questioning his allergy to the concept.
    omg he's so not 'playing the field' or a player or anything either. he's so great.
    i'm a sap kinda too.
    I don't know what to tell you except something I thought of; so if you get married, what changes for the better?
    Is it for reassurance?
    Romance?
    Convention?
    Status?
    I haven't unraveled why I entertain the idea of marriage but I do, I want a ring, I dunno why.
    Does it seem like kind of a 'game'? Like, if you lost interest he'd be into it again? I feel like thats a tiny part of the psyche of my thing. Not a big part, thankfully, because I'm over mind games. I think it's just basic human psychology though.

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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    It sounds like you're going off random things he's said, and while that letter you wrote him is definitely a good way to bring this up, I think it'd be really important for you two to sit down and discuss marriage. Find out, in his words, why he is so against marriage, and explain why it's so important to you - not in a 'trying to convince' him way, but just matter of fact 'this is why I want to get married one day.' Then go from there. There are plenty of other options as illustrated above, so maybe something else can work for your relationship and make you both happy, but you won't know that until you two talk and figure it out together. I can't imagine it'll be an easy talk because it can go a lot of ways you may not want it to, but if marriage is something that's important to you, and if this relationship is something you would consider marriage material, then it's crucial to get it out in the open and work together.

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    God/dess Mr Hyde's Avatar
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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    I'm gonna say something that not a lot here will agree with, but you need to tell him to make a decision.

    I think it's BS when guys say things "I'm not sure if I want to get married" to a girl they've been dating as long you have.

    Be a fucking man. Make a move.

    As much as I decry idiots who run off and get married at 18, I also don't think it's mature to just "date" forever. That screams out insecurity and immaturity to me.

    So my honest advice would to give him an ultimatum, if being married is what you really want. You're not old, but you're not getting any younger, and I'd guess you'll be right where you are in 5 years if you let HIM call the shots.

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    Featured Member Jessica1001's Avatar
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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    Please, GET THIS BOOK: "Unmarried to each other".

    http://www.amazon.com/Unmarried-Each...2431799&sr=8-1

    It helped ME clarify some of my feelings about marriage and relationships.... I would BUY THIS BOOK FOR YOU, if I knew where to ship it... that's how great I think it is. ;-)

    In it, the authors take you through all sorts of relationship 'philosophies'.... they dont necessarily push one way of living over another, but they do really delve into WHY you might be feeling so strongly about "Getting Married", and other ways that you can create that committment, without necessarily tying the knot in the legal sense. For instance, it talks about people who have been in monogamous, committed relationships for 50 YEARS, have never legally married for whatever reason, but whose relationships are stronger and more loving and committed that most of the married folks out there. But if legal marriage IS the be-all, end-all (nothing wrong with that... you just have to figure out WHY you feel the way you feel), the book also helps you figure out how to deal with a partner who is not on board, and helps you decide whether it's time to move on, change your perspective, change the way you talk to him about it, or whatever.

    It goes over SO MANY potentially hairy situations (gay couples.... foster kids... kids from previous marriage.. home ownership... inheritances... making a will), and describes how other couples have found solutions. For instance... couples who are 100% committed, but where one partner would lose health insurance if they went through with a legal marriage. Or... couples who don't want to get legally married, but want to have all their bases covered in terms of taking care of the kids..... there are a million possible ways to draw up contracts for this sort of thing, that PROTECT both partners, and wouldn't leave you high and dry if you decided to be the stay-at-home parent and then something happened to your partner, for example...

    It really opened up my eyes as to the whole concept of marriage, and committment..... the bottom line really IS that it's all about COMMUNICATION, and understanding what your partner's expectations are. It WOULD be pretty silly to throw away an amazing relationship because of the guy's refusal to sign a piece of paper, wouldn't it? This book will help you figure out HOW to talk to your man, to learn exactly WHAT his fears are, what his goals are, and how you figure into his life. I cannot recommend this book enough.... for people who KNOW they want to get married, for people who know they NEVER do, and for everyone in between. It's about making YOUR RELATIONSHIP WORK FOR YOU.... creating a custom-made union .... not about fitting into society's mold of 'what age should a woman get married', 'how long to wait for the ring', and 'when to give him the ultimatum'. All that stuff is artificial BS.

    I read this book right before making the big step of moving in with my man.... something I was a bit uncomfortable with, having sworn my whole life that "If I am good enough to live with, I am good enough to marry." It really opened my eyes, and I realized "Holy shit... this man does this and this, and says this and this, and it is clear from his ACTIONS that this man IS committed to me. The important people in this relationship are ME and HIM... not the fucking wedding magazines who keep telling me I should be tapping my foot, impatiently waiting for The Ring."

    Seriously... it has made ME so much more confident in where I am in my relationship... and it has made me less jealous, less resentful, and less.... insecure. You sound like you are kinda in the same place *I* was..... please please please get this book!!!

    Best of luck....

    -Jessica

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    Default Re: Myself and the marriage-phobic love of my life

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Hyde View Post
    I'm gonna say something that not a lot here will agree with, but you need to tell him to make a decision.

    I think it's BS when guys say things "I'm not sure if I want to get married" to a girl they've been dating as long you have.

    Be a fucking man. Make a move.

    As much as I decry idiots who run off and get married at 18, I also don't think it's mature to just "date" forever. That screams out insecurity and immaturity to me.

    So my honest advice would to give him an ultimatum, if being married is what you really want. You're not old, but you're not getting any younger, and I'd guess you'll be right where you are in 5 years if you let HIM call the shots.
    I agree with the ultimatum thing, but be prepared to leave because the man will not always comply. I left a 5 year relationship because I got tired of waiting for him. I don't regret leaving and wish I had left sooner. Many men have no problem wasting your time, and will push it as long as they can. You don't have to psyche yourself out of wanting to be married to accomodate him. You just have to act in your best interest and find someone on the same page as you.

    My current boyfriend got offered a job in another state and asked me to drop everything to move with him. I say "No I'm not relocating across the country for some boyfriend." Then he says he thinks we are not just boyfriend and girlfriend. That we are more than that. So he has created his own special status that lies between girlfriend and fiance! Nice try. I told him he can either get engaged to me or move alone. I'm not holding my breath, but it feels good to stand up for myself.

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