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Thread: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvia View Post
    Because whatever her personal views, PP does good work. They are not force sterilizing people against their will. If this was just a matter of one Bishop's opinion, that would be a different story. But it's been acted on, people have been excommunicated.

    I already had a dim view of the Catholic Church, largely due to the "Magdalene Asylums" that kept young women against their will and forced them to work in laundries as slave labor, often for many many years or even the duration of their life, all for the "crimes" of having premarital sex, or even the suspicion of it, or for no reason at all. And have they had to answer for it? Or apologize for it? Or give reparations for it? NO. And this was going on into the 1990's.

    If the same can be said of other groups, then let it be said. If it's true, then outrage is warranted there too.

    I have nothing good to say about a primitive, chauvanistic organization like the CC. They don't value women, and their actions continue to show it. If the CC doesn't want to be seen in that light, then they should reverse the decision. Until they do, I see no reason to excuse them. They don't give a fuck what happens to a raped 9 year old, and they're all going to stick together and support this kind of nonsense.

    PP does good work, well, so does the CC.

    PP also has allowed statutory rapes to continue by not reporting crimes. PP doesn't give a fuck about anyone except themselves (to allow unrestricted abortions).

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...w&pageId=64812
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
    Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness
    The note that began all can also destroy

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by glambman View Post
    PP doesn't give a fuck about anyone except themselves (to allow unrestricted abortions).

    OK...all I'm seeing here is your personal views on abortion. I don't have moral objections to abortions so we've really nothing to discuss here. You're free to feel what you will about PP, I'm free to feel what I feel about the Catholic Church. But to say they don't help anyone, just because you have personal religious objections to the kind of help they offer, is absurd.

    And actually, I've long since been aware of PP's position on not reporting all "statutory rapes." That policy has benefited me. When I was 17 I was involved with a college boy. I was able to be open with counselors at PP (and other health organizations) about that without fear. If I couldn't expect that confidentiality (in regards a consensual relationship that really harmed no one) it would have been much more difficult for me to utilize the services they offer.

    Personally, I think the CC does far more harm than good. But I'm free to give my money to an organization that provides birth control and abortions to those who want and need them, just as you are free to support an organization that has utilized slave labor without apology or reparations, dealt with pedophilia by simply shuffling predators around to cover their own ass, and is willing to let women and small children die so fetuses can live.

    Hmmm. Really seems like an awkward comparison now, doesn't it?
    Last edited by Elvia; 03-11-2009 at 07:08 PM.
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    As Katherine Hepburn put it so eloquently " Nature is what we were put here to rise above"

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    FUCK the Catholic Church. They are right up there with the Nazis, imho.
    I don't know about Nazi's, but I agree that's pretty messed up. Makes me lose all respect for the catholic church.

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    ^ dude, the Nazis and Catholic Church were thisclose in WWII. Seriously. They were buddies.

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by glambman View Post
    Organization.......group.........there really is no difference except organization (lol). And even then, there are Catholic churches that are not part of the CC.
    yes but the catholic church, like many other organized religions, is putting forwards it's ideology as "right" and telling people to follow it. When the pope gets up on a soapbox and tells people that using condoms is morally wrong, he is trying to influence the decisions of millions of people in favor of what he/ the catholic church thinks is right, regardless of the consequences such an action may have on those who follow it, especially in light of the aids crisis. in my view that is hardly comparable to one perv raping his kid or a stripper stealing from a customer.

    As for margaret sanger, although her views were extreme at some point, they were born of her experience nursing poor women who had illegal abortions, and seeing poor children living in horrible conditions. not a dogmatic, pie in the sky idea of right and wrong.

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    ^ dude, the Nazis and Catholic Church were thisclose in WWII. Seriously. They were buddies.

    True. I remember reading on how the Vatican looked the other way. It's also been known that many (if not most) of the Nazi's were Roman Catholic (including Hitler). Could all be coincidence, or much more sinister.

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    ^ dude, the Nazis and Catholic Church were thisclose in WWII. Seriously. They were buddies.
    Yep..its even been said many times that Pope Pius XII was in cahoots with the Nazis. The CC/Nazi connection has never been fully proven or disproven and probably never will. Historians believe that many high members of the Reich were even hidden in the Vatican to avoid the law after the war.But the fact that Pope Pius XII never came out in opposition and did not excommunicate one member of the Nazi party (when the CC LOVES to excommunicate people...as the OP shows) says volumes..at least to me.

    I was raised Irish Catholic. I was 14 when I saw the inherent hypocrisy in the CC and refused to participate in it any longer. Broke my VERY devout fathers heart...but I just couldnt continue to support an organization I wholeheartedly did not believe in anymore.

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    ^ the CC loved the Nazis because they're both anti Semitic!

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvia View Post
    OK...all I'm seeing here is your personal views on abortion. I don't have moral objections to abortions so we've really nothing to discuss here. You're free to feel what you will about PP, I'm free to feel what I feel about the Catholic Church. But to say they don't help anyone, just because you have personal religious objections to the kind of help they offer, is absurd.

    And actually, I've long since been aware of PP's position on not reporting all "statutory rapes." That policy has benefited me. When I was 17 I was involved with a college boy. I was able to be open with counselors at PP (and other health organizations) about that without fear. If I couldn't expect that confidentiality (in regards a consensual relationship that really harmed no one) it would have been much more difficult for me to utilize the services they offer.

    Personally, I think the CC does far more harm than good. But I'm free to give my money to an organization that provides birth control and abortions to those who want and need them, just as you are free to support an organization that has utilized slave labor without apology or reparations, dealt with pedophilia by simply shuffling predators around to cover their own ass, and is willing to let women and small children die so fetuses can live.

    Hmmm. Really seems like an awkward comparison now, doesn't it?
    I got my views on abortion when I was younger. I was not brought up in a religious home, or under any religious influence. So, religion has nothing to do with my views on abortion.

    Nope, not an awkward comparo. Allowing crimes (felonies) to go unreported is as bad as your last paragraph.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
    Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness
    The note that began all can also destroy

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    yes but the catholic church, like many other organized religions, is putting forwards it's ideology as "right" and telling people to follow it. When the pope gets up on a soapbox and tells people that using condoms is morally wrong, he is trying to influence the decisions of millions of people in favor of what he/ the catholic church thinks is right, regardless of the consequences such an action may have on those who follow it, especially in light of the aids crisis. in my view that is hardly comparable to one perv raping his kid or a stripper stealing from a customer.

    As for margaret sanger, although her views were extreme at some point, they were born of her experience nursing poor women who had illegal abortions, and seeing poor children living in horrible conditions. not a dogmatic, pie in the sky idea of right and wrong.
    Everyone is putting forth their ideology as being "right".

    MSnager was a racist bigot. If she were right wing, you would affiliate her with the KKK.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
    Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness
    The note that began all can also destroy

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by CKXXX View Post
    Yep..its even been said many times that Pope Pius XII was in cahoots with the Nazis. The CC/Nazi connection has never been fully proven or disproven and probably never will. Historians believe that many high members of the Reich were even hidden in the Vatican to avoid the law after the war.But the fact that Pope Pius XII never came out in opposition and did not excommunicate one member of the Nazi party (when the CC LOVES to excommunicate people...as the OP shows) says volumes..at least to me.

    I was raised Irish Catholic. I was 14 when I saw the inherent hypocrisy in the CC and refused to participate in it any longer. Broke my VERY devout fathers heart...but I just couldnt continue to support an organization I wholeheartedly did not believe in anymore.
    As you said, no credible evidence linking the Vatican to Nazis. Also, you say "neither proven nor disproved". That's faulty logic, it's not anyones place to prove their innocence, but to be proven guilty.

    Quote Originally Posted by ViolaStrings View Post
    ^ the CC loved the Nazis because they're both anti Semitic!
    Yes, the CC had a history of antisemitism. Yes, some priests helped the Nazi's (even to escape after the war in order to prevent them being arrested for war crimes). Yes, some priests helped Jews escape, before, during and after the Nazi regime.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
    Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness
    The note that began all can also destroy

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    I'm a "recovering Catholic". Once I could think for myself, I rejected ALL religions as a bunch of superstitious b.s. designed to control people. It's the main reason the Roman Emperor Constantine made Christianity the Official Religion of the Roman Empire. The Empire's subjects could be threatened with death and eternal damnation if they failed to toe the line.

    The Catholic Church has a long list of sins and shortcomings to answer for : The Crusades; The Inquisition; Anti-Semitism; Corruption; reaching accomodations with Hitler and Mussolini; actively supporting Franco ; banking fraud; tolerating child abuse and now this latest.

    It's not surprising that they haven't condemned the "father" of the aborted. How could they ?
    So many priests are guilty of the same or similar.

    On top of everything else, the pregnancy was a serious risk to the LIFE of that poor girl. A NINE year old trying to bear twins ???? Well, medical and other realities rarely interfere with the dogma of "Vatican City Enterprises". When you think about it, so many things about the Catholic Church just fly in the face of simple, basic reality.

    I'm generally pro-Life but recognize that some abortions are Medically NECESSARY. This was a clear cut case of MEDICAL necessity. When religion clashes with SCIENCE it loses every time. As it should.

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post

    The Catholic Church has a long list of sins and shortcomings to answer for : The Crusades; The Inquisition; Anti-Semitism; Corruption; reaching accomodations with Hitler and Mussolini; actively supporting Franco ; banking fraud; tolerating child abuse and now this latest.
    .
    While I agree with most parts, I disagree about the Crusades. They were merely reactionary to the Islamic invasion of Europe that began in 711. They occupied parts until 1492 when Columbus sailed the ocean blue.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
    Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness
    The note that began all can also destroy

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by glambman View Post
    While I agree with most parts, I disagree about the Crusades. They were merely reactionary to the Islamic invasion of Europe that began in 711. They occupied parts until 1492 when Columbus sailed the ocean blue.
    Sorry but their prime purpose was to "Free the Holy Land" from the "infidels".
    While the "get into Heaven FREE" tickets offered by Pope Urban ( ? ) were an enticement for many, so was plain old-fashioneed greed and politics. Many kings , princes and dukes leapt at the chance to get rid of some of their troublesome knights and send them off to Palestine.

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Sorry but their prime purpose was to "Free the Holy Land" from the "infidels".
    While the "get into Heaven FREE" tickets offered by Pope Urban ( ? ) were an enticement for many, so was plain old-fashioneed greed and politics. Many kings , princes and dukes leapt at the chance to get rid of some of their troublesome knights and send them off to Palestine.
    No different than the reasons the Islamists invaded Europe. Greed, politics, religion.

    The "get into heaven free" is a joke, just like the whole "the Pope is infallible" nonsense.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
    Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness
    The note that began all can also destroy

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    This is exactly why I left the Catholic Church. I used to be a very devout Catholic until I saw things like this happen. They won't allow women to become priests, but will accept pedophiles because there's a shortage. They claim to be for the poor, but sent my mother a very nasty letter because she wasn't giving much to the plate (because my dad just lost his job and my mom didn't make much). They give money to various anti abortion organizations. I could go on, but it makes me sick.
    interesting kelly, but i went against the church as a young girl when i saw that women couldnt become priests. i read stories about women like nellie bly and harriet tubman when i was young. so to be somewhere where women do not have equal rights bothered me (as well as other aspects of the religion). it's interesting how many people are not bothered by that element. it upset my parents, since they were raised catholic, but once i got a bit older they agreed with me. we are not catholic. i am not christian.

    i always felt the church was a miserable cold place. mass was a horrid bore and no one seemed happy. how are you better for sitting in a freezing church for one hour every sunday? jesus did not sit on his ass- he went out and helped people! (sorry if that offends anyone)

    i am disgusted by that article. that is so horrid that anyone could possibly think that it is reasonable for that poor little girl to give birth to a baby under those circumstances!

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    glambman,

    Don't you know anything about the Crusades? The first thing the Crusaders did after entering the city of Jerusalem was slaughter the Jewish women and children to "avenge Christ's death".

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by alice_island View Post
    interesting kelly, but i went against the church as a young girl when i saw that women couldnt become priests. i read stories about women like nellie bly and harriet tubman when i was young. so to be somewhere where women do not have equal rights bothered me (as well as other aspects of the religion). it's interesting how many people are not bothered by that element. it upset my parents, since they were raised catholic, but once i got a bit older they agreed with me. we are not catholic. i am not christian.

    i always felt the church was a miserable cold place. mass was a horrid bore and no one seemed happy. how are you better for sitting in a freezing church for one hour every sunday? jesus did not sit on his ass- he went out and helped people! (sorry if that offends anyone)

    i am disgusted by that article. that is so horrid that anyone could possibly think that it is reasonable for that poor little girl to give birth to a baby under those circumstances!

    I have a feeling I was sort of brainwashed and didn't give men only priests much thought. When I was in Catholic youth groups, I just felt things were the way they've always been. My family was Catholic so I think it was part of I had to be a good Catholic. A few years later I realized it did bother me. Even seeing how they gave money to very anti abortion groups bothered me, but didn't early on because "they've always been like that".

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by glambman View Post
    Everyone is putting forth their ideology as being "right".

    MSnager was a racist bigot. If she were right wing, you would affiliate her with the KKK.
    Regardless of some of Margaret Sanger's personal views, she helped millions of women become educated about, and gain access to contraception. Do you think this is a bad thing?

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by glambman View Post
    Everyone is putting forth their ideology as being "right".

    MSnager was a racist bigot. If she were right wing, you would affiliate her with the KKK.
    yeah, most people do think they are right. some people consider the possibility that they could be wrong, some think that their views come directly from "god" and therefore feel immune to criticism.

    ways of dealing with other people vary too. i disagree with practically everything you have said in this thread yet i am not calling you a "sinner" or repeating over and over that you will go to hell unless you renounce your views and adopt mine.

    also, the KKK is a very specific organisation, i would not affiliate just any person with them because that person held (unfortunately very common) racist beliefs, but thank you for assuming my political orientation.
    Last edited by rayna; 03-12-2009 at 09:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by glambman View Post
    I got my views on abortion when I was younger. I was not brought up in a religious home, or under any religious influence. So, religion has nothing to do with my views on abortion.
    That's nice of you to share, but I don't think I said anything that suggested otherwise.
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    As Katherine Hepburn put it so eloquently " Nature is what we were put here to rise above"

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by glambman View Post
    No it's not. You're blaming the CC as being an entirely evil group. Yes, they do have antiquated views that are based on man's ideas, and sure, they have done evil, but the same can be said about other groups and organizations.

    Just look at Planned Parenthood and its founder M Sanger. Go read her own book, her own speeches. SHe supported Hitlers eugenics plan, she didn't want blacks (poor) to reproduce. Why no decrying her organization like you are the CC.
    BC, whether or not she was a racist, it doesn't change the fact that PP has been giving care to women in need for close to 100 yrs. While the Catholic church has been condemning those same people for needing the care. Somehow I think, regardless of her thinking in the beginning, or what she may have meant to do, PP does way more good.

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    What makes me sick is that people associate these disgusting people and their organizations with the message of Jesus Christ. His teachings are so entirely opposite everything that spews from most churches. Yet people will read stories like this and come in contact with people like this, and will respond by tossing out the possibility that Christ's message has a lot to teach them... because the churches have dragged Him through the mud and twisted everything He ever said, in order to gain power and exploit people through fear and control.

    It's beyond sad to me, that a valuable message of peace and love is being so twisted and mangled by the churches. And that people are less inclined to give Christ's teachings a real consideration b/c all they can see are the disgusting actions of people who parade around doing all sorts of horrible things and claiming that it's for God's sake...and all they hear are mangled versions and outrageous interpretations of Bible passages from these same people.

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by sorsi View Post
    What makes me sick is that people associate these disgusting people and their organizations with the message of Jesus Christ. His teachings are so entirely opposite everything that spews from most churches. Yet people will read stories like this and come in contact with people like this, and will respond by tossing out the possibility that Christ's message has a lot to teach them... because the churches have dragged Him through the mud and twisted everything He ever said, in order to gain power and exploit people through fear and control.

    It's beyond sad to me, that a valuable message of peace and love is being so twisted and mangled by the churches. And that people are less inclined to give Christ's teachings a real consideration b/c all they can see are the disgusting actions of people who parade around doing all sorts of horrible things and claiming that it's for God's sake...and all they hear are mangled versions and outrageous interpretations of Bible passages from these same people.
    That is one of many reasons why the only reasons I've gone to mass over the past 30 years or so was for someone's wedding, baptism, First Holy Communion or funeral mass. Other than to be polite, I just can't be bothered.

    Why do you think the Vatican is so secretive ? What do you think would happen if the "faithful" KNEW what really went on there ? How they are spoken about behind closed doors ?

    I don't have a problem with Christ's PHILOSOPHY. That is it's ONLY value afaic.
    The whole "Son of Man" thing ? Keep it. "Born of a virgin ? ". Uh huh.

    Btw, if the world, particularly Palestine was so fucked up back around 6 B.C. or so that God had to send his only begotten son to come to Earth and straighten things out; where the hell has he been lately ? Why not NOW ? Where has he been ? What has he been doing ? He's been too busy ? If he spoke to all those folks in the Bible - Abraham, Noah, Daniel, Joseph, Mary, Elizabeth etc. etc.; why hasn't he chatted with anyone for the last 2,000 years or so ? Except for Bernadette and Jean D'Arc of course. How did the French get to be the new "chosen people" ? He can't get a dial tone ? Just wondering.

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    Default Re: Vatican: Abortion for rape -victim worse than raping a 9-year old

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    glambman,

    Don't you know anything about the Crusades? The first thing the Crusaders did after entering the city of Jerusalem was slaughter the Jewish women and children to "avenge Christ's death".
    What they did was no different than what other groups had done, were doing, and doing after. So what if they had a different rationale. While we can all agree (I hope) that slavery is wrong, but it is unfair to condemn a society because society is different now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    I have a feeling I was sort of brainwashed and didn't give men only priests much thought. When I was in Catholic youth groups, I just felt things were the way they've always been. My family was Catholic so I think it was part of I had to be a good Catholic. A few years later I realized it did bother me. Even seeing how they gave money to very anti abortion groups bothered me, but didn't early on because "they've always been like that".
    PETA has supported ELF. So what if the CC supports anti-abortion groups, do you not think that PP supports pro-abortion groups. Why is one wrong and not the other?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Regardless of some of Margaret Sanger's personal views, she helped millions of women become educated about, and gain access to contraception. Do you think this is a bad thing?
    And regardless of the CC's view, they have supported and provided resources that have helped many people. Geeez, I'm not even Catholic and I don't agree with 99% of their crap, but come on.

    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    yeah, most people do think they are right. some people consider the possibility that they could be wrong, some think that their views come directly from "god" and therefore feel immune to criticism.

    ways of dealing with other people vary too. i disagree with practically everything you have said in this thread yet i am not calling you a "sinner" or repeating over and over that you will go to hell unless you renounce your views and adopt mine.

    also, the KKK is a very specific organisation, i would not affiliate just any person with them because that person held (unfortunately very common) racist beliefs, but thank you for assuming my political orientation.
    I meant "you" as a general term, not 'you' specifically. Sorry.

    But the thing is, is that PP was started because of racist views.

    I'm not condemning anyone here, I mean I do sin too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvia View Post
    That's nice of you to share, but I don't think I said anything that suggested otherwise.
    Just wanted to be sure I don't don't get called a Catholic.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayATee View Post
    BC, whether or not she was a racist, it doesn't change the fact that PP has been giving care to women in need for close to 100 yrs. While the Catholic church has been condemning those same people for needing the care. Somehow I think, regardless of her thinking in the beginning, or what she may have meant to do, PP does way more good.
    And whether or not the CC has antiquated beliefs doesn't change the fact that the CC has helped many people (longer than PPs 100 years).

    And regardless of the CC views and nonsense (OP) they have done more good too.

    Quote Originally Posted by sorsi View Post
    What makes me sick is that people associate these disgusting people and their organizations with the message of Jesus Christ. His teachings are so entirely opposite everything that spews from most churches. Yet people will read stories like this and come in contact with people like this, and will respond by tossing out the possibility that Christ's message has a lot to teach them... because the churches have dragged Him through the mud and twisted everything He ever said, in order to gain power and exploit people through fear and control.

    It's beyond sad to me, that a valuable message of peace and love is being so twisted and mangled by the churches. And that people are less inclined to give Christ's teachings a real consideration b/c all they can see are the disgusting actions of people who parade around doing all sorts of horrible things and claiming that it's for God's sake...and all they hear are mangled versions and outrageous interpretations of Bible passages from these same people.
    +1

    I especially liked when the CC opposed Bible translations into 'other' languages. It does keep people from learning what the Bible actually says, and keeps them sheeples.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    That is one of many reasons why the only reasons I've gone to mass over the past 30 years or so was for someone's wedding, baptism, First Holy Communion or funeral mass. Other than to be polite, I just can't be bothered.

    Why do you think the Vatican is so secretive ? What do you think would happen if the "faithful" KNEW what really went on there ? How they are spoken about behind closed doors ?

    I don't have a problem with Christ's PHILOSOPHY. That is it's ONLY value afaic.
    The whole "Son of Man" thing ? Keep it. "Born of a virgin ? ". Uh huh.

    Btw, if the world, particularly Palestine was so fucked up back around 6 B.C. or so that God had to send his only begotten son to come to Earth and straighten things out; where the hell has he been lately ? Why not NOW ? Where has he been ? What has he been doing ? He's been too busy ? If he spoke to all those folks in the Bible - Abraham, Noah, Daniel, Joseph, Mary, Elizabeth etc. etc.; why hasn't he chatted with anyone for the last 2,000 years or so ? Except for Bernadette and Jean D'Arc of course. How did the French get to be the new "chosen people" ? He can't get a dial tone ? Just wondering.
    Yes, there are things going on with them, but secrecy breeds speculations.
    Last edited by glambman; 03-13-2009 at 01:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
    Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness
    The note that began all can also destroy

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