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Thread: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

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    Default 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    (snip)He said: "The G20 meeting is make or break because unless they do something for developing world there will be serious collapse in that part of the world.

    "I'm using phrase depression because unless we take the right measures we're liable to end up there.

    If countries start doing it [engineering a new financial world order] bilaterally instead of multilaterally, the system will fall apart and we'll end up in depression."

    He also said the rebuilding meant the previous economic system had to be scrapped."(snip)


    (snip)He added: "The International financial system has collapsed and cannot be restored in its current form. It will have to be restructured because it was flawed and collapsed under its own weight."

    In May last year, Mr Soros was interviewed by the BBC's business editor Robert Peston and said he was worried about the US and UK's ability to deal with the downturn because of their reliance on credit.

    Mr Soros urged wealthy nations to give their allocations of the IMF's internal currency, called Special Drawing Rights, to poorer ones because developing countries were not in a position to bail out their own failing banks.

    George Soros famously made his name - and $1bn - when he bet that sterling would have to withdraw from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism in 1992. He's also said to have accurately predicted and profited from the Asian financial crisis in 1997. "(snip)


    - observation 1 ... Soros is now calling for the use of IMF SDR's as a new international currency, right along with China, Russia etc.

    - observation 2 ... one wonders how much of Mr. Soros' past success in the way of predicting financial calamities is related to passive 'crystal ball gazing' versus active 'hidden hand' financial manipulations.

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    ^^^ with some 'reaction' ...

    (snip)We love America, but these days, America does not love us back. It takes without giving and squelches free enterprise. These days, America is no longer the land of the free, especially when it comes to the market.

    Just look at the headlines, seemingly ripped from the pages of Atlas Shrugged: Unconscionably large bank bailouts. Punishing regulations and tax requirements. An arctic business climate. Government money bombs. Riots and protests. Slowing trade. Protectionist rhetoric. Demonized corporate executives. Even pirates hijacking cargo ships. One can guess what will happen next.

    We predict the next several years will usher in larger, more obtrusive governments, resulting in a decline of personal liberty and financial privacy. The world will become increasingly polarized between two groups: those who consider government intervention a great idea, and the rest of us who happen to be sane.

    As such, you can bet your last falling dollar on some absolute certainties: bank nationalization is a given, at least de facto if not de jure; taxes are going up on those of us with any money left; the Fed's money blitzkriegs will spark a blaze of inflation; and financial privacy will be a thing of the past in the United States.

    The obvious and necessary solution is to position one's finances outside of the United States, and to do so now, while the narrow and finite window of opportunity is still open.

    To be clear, evading (or even avoiding) taxes at this point is not a wise move, given the size and scope of the ever-growing IRS. But there are significant advantages to expatriating your capital now:

    For starters, you will actually have control of your own money. Yes, in certain instances you'll be obliged to tell the IRS exactly where it is and what you're doing with it, but no government agency will have the authority to reach into your overseas pocket and freeze or expropriate (read: steal) on a whim just so Team Obama can give it away to pay for someone else's McMansion. Plus, when exchange controls are implemented and Americans are forbidden from wiring money overseas, your capital will already be secured in another jurisdiction, where you will be free to do what you want with it.

    Secondly, you will no longer have to assume the risk of insolvent banks or go through the hassle of petitioning the government to get your FDIC insurance bailout. Many overseas banks are far better capitalized than those in the United States, and some of them are in jurisdictions with constitutionally protected banking privacy.

    Lastly, and probably most importantly, moving money overseas gives you a last chance at diversifying out of the dollar, which, in a very short period of time, will barely be worth the paper on which it's printed."(snip)

    from


    The latter point about an impending US dollar collapse is directly tied to any potential shift away from the US dollar as the world's 'reserve currency' i.e. the introduction of an IMF based global currency for international trade.

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    George Soros famously made his name - and $1bn - when he bet that sterling would have to withdraw from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism in 1992. He's also said to have accurately predicted and profited from the Asian financial crisis in 1997. "(snip)
    Currency manipulation. He is the reason the Brits pulled its currency from the Euro Xchange. He is the reason there was an Asian financial crisis. After the A Crisis, he offered to consult the countries in order to set up new rules to prevent what he did from being done again.

    Soros is a left wing nut job. He "hedged" his bets in E Europe by funding all the old left.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
    Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness
    The note that began all can also destroy

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    (snip)"A UN panel of expert economists pressed Thursday for a new global currency reserve scheme to replace the volatile, dollar-based system and for coordinated steps by rich countries to stimulate their economies.

    "A new Global Reserve System -- what may be viewed as a greatly expanded SDR (Special Drawing Rights), with regular or cyclically adjusted emissions calibrated to the size of reserve accumulations, could contribute to global stability, economic strength and global equity," the panel said. "(snip)

    (snip)"The commission, led by US economist Joseph Stiglitz, a frequent critic of globalization and unbridled free markets, is primarily aimed at finding solutions for developing countries.

    On the monetary front, Stiglitz, the 2001 Nobel economics laureate, told a press conference here there was "a growing consensus that there are problems with the dollar reserve system.

    He noted that such a system was "relatively volatile, deflationary, unstable and (had) inequity associated with it."

    "Developing countries are lending the United States trillions dollars at almost zero interest rates when they have huge needs themselves," Stiglitz noted. "It's indicative of the nature of the problem. It's a net transfer, in a sense, to the United States, a form of foreign aid."

    This week, China's central bank chief Zhou Xiaochuan suggested the dollar could be replaced as a reserve currency by an International Monetary Fund (IMF) basket comprising dollars, euros, sterling and yen, saying it would not be easily influenced by individual countries.

    But the UN panel warned that a two (or three) country reserve system "may be equally unstable."

    It said a new Global Reserve "is feasible, non-inflationary and could be easily implemented, including in ways which mitigate the difficulties caused by asymmetric adjustment between surplus and deficit countries."

    Stiglitz said his panel's experts were currently trying "to lay out the conceptual framework of how this might be done."

    The issue of the world currency reserve is expected to be raised at the April 2 summit of the G20 club of developed and emerging economies.

    On Wednesday IMF managing director Dominique Strauss-Kahn said that talks on a new global reserve currency to replace the US dollar were "legitimate" and could take place "in the coming months." (snip)


    Not wanting to be overly political in Dollar Den, but is it possible that Soros has been funding 'new left' politicians in the US / UK for the same reason he funded 'old left' politicians in the newly 'liberated' eastern european countries, i.e. to earn yet more billions by being short the US dollar and UK pound those politicians are virtually guaranteed to destroy ?

    If so, this strongly implies that Soros will be long the Swiss Franc ( which will play a much stronger international role if an IMF based new global currency emerges) ?

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Not wanting to be overly political in Dollar Den, but is it possible that Soros has been funding 'new left' politicians in the US / UK for the same reason he funded 'old left' politicians in the newly 'liberated' eastern european countries, i.e. to earn yet more billions by being short the US dollar and UK pound those politicians are virtually guaranteed to destroy ?
    Yes, for money, including from the countries that he is funding the old guard.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
    Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness
    The note that began all can also destroy

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    What is a "money bomb" and how can I be near one when it detonates?


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    What is a "money bomb" ?
    'Makin it rain' to the 1,000th power.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
    Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness
    The note that began all can also destroy

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    Soros is a "rain maker." He wants your money to make it rain. If it rains, he claims credit for it. If it doesn't, he says he needs more money to make it rain.


    Z

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    This forum should be renamed "Dollar Den of Doom"

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    ^^^ we're not creating or promoting Doom ... just pointing out economic facts ! And the facts arguably indicate that, in general, the US dollar and US middle class standard of living ARE doomed !

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    Melonie, do you think some other countries will be better off than we are? If so, which ones?

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    ^^^ Monaco, Lichtenstein, Andorra, certain central american countries ... who will gain capital 'investment' via the flight of 'undocumented' tax haven accounts that are in increasing danger of exposure ...



    (snip)"The arrest of the Boca Raton chartered accountant came as world leaders of the G20 nations, meeting in London, agreed to crack down on countries serving as tax havens.

    But in Zurich, Swiss Economy Minister Doris Leuthard said Switzerland would keep defending its strict banking secrecy after making some concessions, but she expected more pressure on her country over the issue of tax havens.

    "Because in difficult years every finance minister cares about the hair-shirt of their own tax payer, we cannot assume that we will now be left in peace," she said.

    The IRS complaint accused Rubinstein of using his South African passport to open UBS accounts in the name of a nominee British Virgin Islands company, Hybridge International Ltd.

    Prosecutors allege that from 2001 through 2008, Rubinstein communicated with UBS bankers about the purchase and sale of securities worth more than 4.5 million Swiss francs, moving investments from U.S. dollars to British pounds and bringing some $3 million into the United States to buy property.

    "By opening the accounts in the name of the nominee entity, Steven Michael Rubinstein attempted to conceal his offshore assets and income from the IRS," the IRS affidavit said."(snip)

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    A couple of weeks ago I arranged an interview with Paul Krugman while he was in Brussels. It wasn't me asking the questions, but the interviewer didn't know much about food security - the conference topic - so I suggested a couple of topics based on his speech...

    How many times does he use the word 'depression' in the interview?

    http://blog.stockexchangesecrets.com.../paul-krugman/

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    Hi Stuart ! All I can say is that it appears you've been 'moving up in the world'.

    While the issue of food security is generally sloughed off in North America and Western Europe, for a fact it could constitute a 'catalyst' for not only a whole lot of internal hate and discontent stemming from 'poor' citizens, but a foreign 'onslaught' as well. As you point out at your link, the larger destabilizing potential stems from hungry Africans storming European borders and hungry Central / South Americans storming the US border in huge numbers in search of basic survival.

    The odds of this happening are growing steadily. Issue #1 is that farmers in Africa and Central / South America are also falling victim to the worldwide credit crunch ... i.e. few lenders are willing to put up front money for loans that would allow these farmers to purchase highly productive seeds / fertilizers / pesticides necessary to produce crop yields equal to those of the past few years. As such, some experts are already predicting harvests this year that will only be 1/2 as large as those of recent years.

    Issue #2 is the fact that, thanks to US and European gov't regulations which have increased 'domestic' farm labor costs / taxes etc. to the point where some 'domestic' producers have folded, both the US and Western Europe are more dependent than ever on the importation of additional foods from foreign countries. To make matters even worse, a fair portion of the foreign food producers now 'feeding' Western Europe and the USA are located in countries that are either directly subject to their own hungry populations (i.e. food is being grown there but the 'poor' local population cannot afford to buy it), or are directly in the migration path of potential 'starving' people who will be moving north in search of food. As such, these foreign food supplies that the USA and Western Europe increasingly depend upon are potentially subject to 'confiscation' by the foreign gov't or 'looting' by its citizens (or those of countries farther south who are moving north to avoid starvation).

    Obviously any Western European or American that has sufficient cash will always be able to find an available source of food - from domestically grown organic produce to domestically raised sirloin steak. However, those that are short of cash may not be so lucky, since those 'vulnerable' imported food supplies are also the only food supplies that are 'reasonably' priced. And as you indirectly point out, world market basic food prices are already creeping up again i.e. 'beans in the teens'.

    (snip)" Good's comments came as he reviewed soybean prices. Soybean futures contracts for the 2008 crop sunk to contract lows in early December 2008, and the average spot cash price in central Illinois dropped under $8 per bushel. Prices rallied sharply into early January 2009, with the central Illinois cash price moving above $10. Prices collapsed again in early March with the cash price dropping to about $8.35, but rebounded sharply last week with the central Illinois spot cash bid ending the week at $9.38.

    "Much of last week's rally in prices was associated with higher energy prices, a rally in financial markets, and a weaker U.S. dollar," he said. "These markets, in turn, were influenced by U.S. monetary policy that ignited expectations of an upcoming period of rapid inflation in the U.S. economy. "(snip) from

    Of course, a couple of embedded points in the above quote apply equally to Western Europe as well as North America. All basic foods are world market priced commodities. Thus as governments continue to 'debase' the exchange rate values of their currencies as a result of massive gov't spending and money printing, these prices will automatically increase even if there is no change in supply / demand. Throwing in an anticipated reduction in supply due to the inability of small / 3rd world farmers to obtain credit with which to fertilize / pesticide this year's crop only aggravates the trend. Throw in a second reduction in supply due to the diversion of fertile land away from human food crops and toward 'alternative energy' crops ( cow corn, cuphea, whatever that oil bearing African fruit is that Europe imports by the megaton etc.) and the situation gets even worse.

    Circling back on topic, food security was certainly absent at the G20 discussions ! Their primary interests seemed to revolve around printing up more money, giving lip service to a 'halt' in competitive currency devaluations, and quietly taking steps toward a 'new world order' where an IMF backed international currency will displace the US Dollar as the de-facto world's reserve currency.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 04-03-2009 at 03:46 PM.

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    I wasn't trying to hijack this thread to make it about food security, sorry. However, now that I have spoken to about 30 experts on the topic, I know that it is pretty bloody scary.

    The world is changing very quickly and the only way to survive - individually - is be wealthy enough to pay for what you need. GET EARNING RIGHT NOW!!!!

    But some of your points above are right on. Damn. Are you always the most informed person in the room??? lol

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    ^^^ actually, the issue of food security helped guide my decision regarding the choice of a new 'tax' home. While my 'adopted' country is short on domestic red meat supply, there is a never-ending supply of salt water fish, fruits, and most vegetables.

    Back to the G20, by my read the worlds political and economic leaders seem to be setting up an increased 'transfer of wealth' from rich countries to poor countries. Such a development would help my 'adopted' country greatly. Your thoughts, Stuart or anybody ?

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    Honestly, I'm not sure. I agree with the above thoughts that there seems to be something in the air that might create a new world currency and - we have heard this before - a new world order.

    I do think that there is a massive power grab going on right now. The political classes around the world are doing their best to wrest control of the world back into government hands from the grasps of capitalism. Milton Friedman must be turning in his grave! Masters of the Universe no longer.

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    ^^^ probably the most significant 'side subject' of the G20 were the actions by the Chinese gov't to enter into currency swaps with additional countries such as Argentina, Hong Kong, South Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia etc. The existance of these new currency swap agreements now makes it possible for the Chinese to import / export to these countries without a need for US dollar foreign exchange reserves or an intermediate currency conversion involving US dollars. This does not bode well for the USA because ...

    A. the bypassing of the US dollar as the 'common medium of exchange' cuts the US gov't out of seignorage 'income' - see

    B. if these countries no longer need to hold as large of an amount of US dollar reserves since dollars are no longer needed to settle Chinese trade, these countries will be less inclined to buy US Treasuries in the future (at a time when the US gov't badly needs to sell newly issued Treasury bonds in order to fund Obama's stimulus spending)

    C. since the Yuan is not freely convertible outside of China, the countries signing onto the Yuan swap agreements cannot use the billions in new swap 'credits' advanced by the Chinese to buy products from any other country except China or other countries with similar Yuan swap agreements in place with China.

    D. a strong precedent is being set which will quickly 'suck' the other BRIC countries into using Yuan based foreign trade in place of the US dollar (with similar de-facto preference being extended to Chinese products versus US / EU / Japanese products which cannot be purchased with Yuan 'credits', and with similar future declines in US Treasury bond purchases)

    E. this also serves as a very strong incentive for China to finally allow the Yuan to be freely exchanged outside of China, which will also mean a world market driven Yuan exchange rate thus a potential rapid decline in the US dollar exchange rate
    Last edited by Melonie; 04-04-2009 at 02:10 PM.

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    Default Re: 'G20 Make or Break, Soros Says'

    I'd not spotted that bit of news. Very interesting. Thanks.

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