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Thread: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

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    Default The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    The excessive borrowing and spending by Obama and the Dem Congress is exactly how Barack and Michelle lived for several years.

    Based on their financial disclosures, the Obamas lived off lines of credit until 2005 when 1. Obama's book royalties came through 2. Michelle got a 260% pay raise at the University of chicago and 3. Obama started serving in the U.S. Senate.

    In April, 1999 they bought a condo with a mortgage for $159,000. In May, 1999 they took out a $20,000 line of credit. In 2002, they refinanced with a $210,000 mortgage and in 2004 they took out a $100,000 line of credit. By 2004 they owed
    $240,000 on a condo they bought for $160,000. From 2000 to 2004 they had an adjusted gross income averaging a little over $250,000. They had little or no savings because they reported virtually no taxable interest.

    Without his book royalties pouring in starting in 2005 ( Michelle said it was like "Jack and his magic beans" ) the Obamas would have suffered the consequences of too much debt.

    Obama's first 100 days have been distressingly similar. He gave Congress free rein in writing the stimulus bill. He made no effort to control spending or reduce debt. As in his private life when he borrowed more and more to finance a lifestyle beyond his means until the "magic beans" arrived, Obama is doing the same thing with the Federal budget. The question is : Who is the Federal "Jack" and what are the "magic beans" supposed to be ?

    Um, Melonie ? Do you need a houseboy ? Maybe have a couch I could sleep on ?

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    This sounds pretty typical of a young American family. Most people today leave college with a sizable debt load and then don't start realizing maximum earning potential until their 40's.

    Obama wasn't born wealthy. I'd be willing to bet Reagan had a similar story to tell of his financial past. Being an actor in Hollywood during the great depression was no walk in the park.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Um, Melonie ? Do you need a houseboy ? Maybe have a couch I could sleep on ?
    Unfortunately, after Obama's announcement today that he is going to double gov't funding for IRS tax enforcement re un(der)reported income, with particular attention on Americans' 'offshore' assets, it's going to start to get more crowded down here with every passing day !




    The question is : Who is the Federal "Jack" and what are the "magic beans" supposed to be ?
    Jack is Hu Jin Tao, and the 'magic beans' are freshly printed US dollars / US Treasury bills ... which are also green and, when piled upon each other, would reach even higher than the magic beanstalk LOL !!!

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-07-2009 at 08:12 PM.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Unfortunately, after Obama's announcement today that he is going to double gov't funding for IRS tax enforcement re un(der)reported income, with particular attention on Americans' 'offshore' assets, it's going to start to get more crowded down here with every passing day !
    I don't consider that BAD. Every working American should pay theirfair share of taxes. People working under the table just cost the rest of us immeasurable more to support their portion of taxes.

    Saying that.... I don't think the current tax system is anywhere near fair and equitable. But what is even worse is people dodging their responsibilities and STEALING money in effect from all others of us. And that's exactly what it is--theft.

    Along with that Obama initiative, tax policies allowing American companies to export our jobs is up for revision also. I'm sure lobbying efforts by big business and ultra-conservatives will try to stymie that. In my opinion those efforts are traitorous.

    What's worse than stealing money (see above) from us is stealing our JOBS too.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    I don't consider that BAD. Every working American should pay theirfair share of taxes. People working under the table just cost the rest of us immeasurable more to support their portion of taxes.

    Saying that.... I don't think the current tax system is anywhere near fair and equitable. But what is even worse is people dodging their responsibilities and STEALING money in effect from all others of us. And that's exactly what it is--theft.

    Along with that Obama initiative, tax policies allowing American companies to export our jobs is up for revision also. I'm sure lobbying efforts by big business and ultra-conservatives will try to stymie that. In my opinion those efforts are traitorous.

    What's worse than stealing money (see above) from us is stealing our JOBS too.
    Boy do you have it BACKWARDS !

    Neither Melonie nor Obama are talking about money made "under the table". A lot of what Obama is trying to reach are profits LEGALLY made by American Corporations in other countries TAXED by those countries. One thing that keeps that money off shore and discourages repatriation of those funds is a Corporate Tax Rate of 35% compared to much lower rates everywhere else except Japan. And we know about Japan's "lost decade" despite record government stimulation and pump-priming.

    Your response makes it clear that you buy into the nonsense that tax revenues are the "government's money". That it belongs to them and NOT the people that earned it ; saved it; invested it; took risks with it etc.

    Every country that has tried Obama's proposed restrictions on off-shore earnings and tried to restrict exporting jobs has failed miserably. Other countries can and will retaliate and we'll have a repeat of the Trade and Money Wars of the 1930's.

    The solution is to make investment in the U.S. more attractive; not less. Since corporations do not really pay taxes; they just pass them along in reduced wages, bonuses and dividends and factor them into the prices charged, we ought to CUT our corporate tax rates; INCREASE legitimate investment deductions and CUT capital gains tax rates. We will see a flood of money coming into the U.S.

    Btw, I favor EVERYONE paying their "fair share" which is why we ought to keep inheritance taxes ( within reason to avoid the British disaster of the 70's ) and institute a flat or at least a flatter tax system.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    This sounds pretty typical of a young American family. Most people today leave college with a sizable debt load and then don't start realizing maximum earning potential until their 40's.

    Obama wasn't born wealthy. I'd be willing to bet Reagan had a similar story to tell of his financial past. Being an actor in Hollywood during the great depression was no walk in the park.
    Obama were NOT paying back student loans. They were living a lifestyle that they could not really afford ON CREDIT. What saved them was "Jack and his magic beans" as Michelle put it. An atypical, rapid and radical increase in income.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    ^^^ Technically speaking, Obama's proposal to try and force foreign banks and brokerage houses to automatically report the interest and dividend incomes of American account holders to the IRS is intended to catch 'under the table' offshore earnings.

    Just to make sure everyone understands the IRS distinction, a tax exemption exists for the first $91k per year of an American citizen's foreign earnings .... PROVIDED that they also reside in a foreign country for at least 330 days per year. There is logic behind this i.e. if a person doesn't live in America then they aren't consuming public services. Above the $91k exempt amount, any additional foreign income IS subject to full taxation even though the person is not residing in the USA and their income is not being derived from within the USA ... which basically amounts to a 'windfall profits' tax on holders of US passports. This is now my own situation.

    But if an American citizen still resides within the USA then ALL of their foreign income is just as taxable as their US income. The same sort of logic says that, while still living in America, they are still consuming public services and should be taxed to pay for them. Unfortunately for Obama, this latter group arguably includes a whole bunch of his 'rich' political supporters (who were under the usual impression that any campaign promises to raise taxes on the rich could still be avoided by anonymous offshore banking / investing with the resulting foreign earnings remaining 'under the table').


    On the subject of US business climate being further degraded by Obama's proposed attempts to tax the offshore earnings of US based corporations, short of 'locking down the border' in regard to imported goods this strategy is doomed to failure. FDR halfway succeeded with this strategy in the 1930's by enacting stiff tariffs on imported goods - which in turn allowed remaining US industries to pay higher taxes and higher wages based on a higher price of goods sold (actually these wages and prices were more or less gov't controlled at the time) ... which helped union workers and unionized business owners / investors, but which also hurt non-union workers, independent business persons, and the unemployed.

    Short of Obama abrogating the NAFTA treaty and telling the WTO to pound salt re the enactment of tariffs and quotas on imported products, which in turn would allow America's economy to return to an FDResque level of 'domestic' wage and price controls, an even greater imbalance between US corporate tax rates and foreign corporate tax rates will produce just one result. They will cause US registered corporations to 'move' their legal residence to a foreign country ! This in turn will cost the US white collar jobs left and right as every front office function from R&D to accounting to legal will move offshore along with the corporate headquarters !

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ Technically speaking, Obama's proposal to try and force foreign banks and brokerage houses to automatically report the interest and dividend incomes of American account holders to the IRS is intended to catch 'under the table' offshore earnings.

    Just to make sure everyone understands the IRS distinction, a tax exemption exists for the first $91k per year of an American citizen's foreign earnings .... PROVIDED that they also reside in a foreign country for at least 330 days per year. There is logic behind this i.e. if a person doesn't live in America then they aren't consuming public services. Above the $91k exempt amount, any additional foreign income IS subject to full taxation even though the person is not residing in the USA and their income is not being derived from within the USA ... which basically amounts to a 'windfall profits' tax on holders of US passports. This is now my own situation.

    But if an American citizen still resides within the USA then ALL of their foreign income is just as taxable as their US income. The same sort of logic says that, while still living in America, they are still consuming public services and should be taxed to pay for them. Unfortunately for Obama, this latter group arguably includes a whole bunch of his 'rich' political supporters (who were under the usual impression that any campaign promises to raise taxes on the rich could still be avoided by anonymous offshore banking / investing with the resulting foreign earnings remaining 'under the table').


    On the subject of US business climate being further degraded by Obama's proposed attempts to tax the offshore earnings of US based corporations, short of 'locking down the border' in regard to imported goods this strategy is doomed to failure. FDR halfway succeeded with this strategy in the 1930's by enacting stiff tariffs on imported goods - which in turn allowed remaining US industries to pay higher taxes and higher wages based on a higher price of goods sold (actually these wages and prices were more or less gov't controlled at the time) ... which helped union workers and unionized business owners / investors, but which also hurt non-union workers, independent business persons, and the unemployed.

    Short of Obama abrogating the NAFTA treaty and telling the WTO to pound salt re the enactment of tariffs and quotas on imported products, which in turn would allow America's economy to return to an FDResque level of 'domestic' wage and price controls, an even greater imbalance between US corporate tax rates and foreign corporate tax rates will produce just one result. They will cause US registered corporations to 'move' their legal residence to a foreign country ! This in turn will cost the US white collar jobs left and right as every front office function from R&D to accounting to legal will move offshore along with the corporate headquarters !
    MELONIE ! You of all people garbling the facts !

    FDR did continue most of the disastrous Smoot- Hawley tariffs. And what happened ? There was no recovery. After a short rebound, we had the Recession of 1938. Foreign trade, both imports and exports, stayed stuck in the toilet until late 1939. The only ones who were "helped", as you point out , were a few existing industries and a few workers who hadn't lost their jobs.

    Just having having an offshore account is NOT criminal. Not reporting the income ( interest and/or investment ) is illegal and the IRS has stepped up enforcement of such criminal tax evasion. There is a common misconception that if the money stays offshore i.e. is not brought into the U.S. that it is not taxable and doesn't have to be reported. WRONG ! It is taxable and does have to be reported. U.S. banks and other finacial institutions handling transfers from foreign banks have to report certain transactions. The Swiss have revised their banking secrecy laws. What we might see happen is an increase in American tax exiles who live full time in another country.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 05-08-2009 at 10:00 AM.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Your response makes it clear that you buy into the nonsense that tax revenues are the "government's money". That it belongs to them and NOT the people that earned it ; saved it; invested it; took risks with it etc.
    Well, now that's just RIDICULOUS. It's a common pool of money to provide services to Americans as directed by Congress, or it's supposed to be. Where did you get that idea? It's just stupid to think that.

    In any case I was responding to Mel's post.
    Last edited by threlayer; 05-08-2009 at 03:42 PM.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    What we have now is a system where an American company is faced with a 35% tax rate, plus a plethora of loopholes, credits and other dodges which are not there in other countries. Tha company opens another plant in a lower tax foreign country. That plant is designed and equipped by resources developed in ther US and may be funded at least partially by a US finance house.

    That company is now taxed at a 10% rate, say. Using technologies and expertise developed in the US they are now making big profits by using much cheaper foreign labor. They then plow those enhanced profits back into their foreign operations to build now foreign plants. Funny thing is they are using only cheaper foreign labor and they decide to close their US plants. US Politicians give them local and state tax/loan incentives belatedly not to close it, so they make greater profits for a while in the US and then use that to increase their foreign plant operations. So they are gradually shifting resources into foreign operations and exporting US jobs.

    The govt wants, under US labor pressures, to stem the labor drain using tax incentives and dis-incentives in existing tax laws. I see nothing wrong with that, other than it's about 25 years too late.
    Last edited by threlayer; 05-10-2009 at 09:32 PM. Reason: clarify 2nd para
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    FDR did continue most of the disastrous Smoot- Hawley tariffs. And what happened ? There was no recovery. After a short rebound, we had the Recession of 1938. Foreign trade, both imports and exports, stayed stuck in the toilet until late 1939. The only ones who were "helped", as you point out , were a few existing industries and a few workers who hadn't lost their jobs.
    Yes this was precisely my point about the FDR years versus events that are shaping up in the present. Back in the thirties, lots of 'independent' non-union companies were forced into bankruptcy because they were caught between the 'rock' of gov't mandates re employee pay scales and the 'hard place' of no gov't assistance / contracts and no (or ridiculously expensive) private capital. This was responsible in large part for the eventual dominance of Ford-Chevy-Chrysler and the demise of arguably better 'independent' carmakers like Deusenberg-Pierce-Franklin. Similarly, this was responsible in large part for the dominance of Goodyear-Firestone and the demise of US sales of the arguably better foreign tire makers Michelin (tubeless) and Semperit (synthetic rubber) ... to name just one other industry example.

    The conspiracy theorists would tell you that the same sort of general relationship between the gov't and certain selected companies that are the beneficiaries of gov't assistance and gov't contracts (and de-facto partners given the govt's de-facto ownership of equity in these companies ) may lead to a reprise of the 1930's FDR economic / protectionist model.

    Just to eliminate any confusion, the people that I claimed were 'hurt' by such a model were the unemployed ( who were forced to pay higher prices and also deprived of the opportunity of taking a lower paying non-union job as the independent companies that had offered such jobs were squeezed out of existance), the poor (who were forced to pay gov't mandated higher prices and deprived of access to lower cost imported goods the Smoot Hawley tariff stopped at the border). Arguably even the 'rich' were harmed since they lost the opportunity to purchase 'superior' products from 'independent' US companies and foreign companies. The people that I claimed were 'helped' by such a model were union workers, investors in gov't 'supported' major companies, and gov't employees who were added to the payroll to administer the tariffs and wage / price controls.
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-08-2009 at 08:18 PM.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Uhhh."This was responsible in large part for the eventual dominance of Ford-Chevy-Chrysler and the demise of arguably better 'independent' carmakers like Deusenberg-Pierce-Franklin." Those companies went out in the very early 30s during the height of the Great Depression.

    In any case it is the epitome of consumer foolishness to buy foreign products if domestic products are equivalent quality- and price-wise. Some bonehead foreign-bought Ameriucan marketer seems to convince people of the mystique of 'quality' of foreign-made goods (often by manufacturers with limited real experience). And then, after a few years of mis-directed (foreign-bound) consumer dollars, their profits and experience mount up so that often foreign goods do become higher quality--often due to industrial espionage. And at the same time foreign manufacturers begin dumping product in the US to drive out existing manufacturing businesses.

    I have witnessed this procedure in several facets of the US electronic, automobile, steel, and power industries.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    Well, now that's just RIDICULOUS. It's a common pool of money to provide services to Americans as directed by Congress, or it's supposed to be. Where did you get that idea? It's just stupid to think that.

    In any case I was responding to Mel's post.
    I'm very sorry but the philosophy you espouse says in effect that taxpayer money does NOT belong to the taxpayer but instead is "government property".

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    Uhhh."This was responsible in large part for the eventual dominance of Ford-Chevy-Chrysler and the demise of arguably better 'independent' carmakers like Deusenberg-Pierce-Franklin." Those companies went out in the very early 30s during the height of the Great Depression.

    In any case it is the epitome of consumer foolishness to buy foreign products if domestic products are equivalent quality- and price-wise. Some bonehead foreign-bought Ameriucan marketer seems to convince people of the mystique of 'quality' of foreign-made goods (often by manufacturers with limited real experience). And then, after a few years of mis-directed (foreign-bound) consumer dollars, their profits and experience mount up so that often foreign goods do become higher quality--often due to industrial espionage. And at the same time foreign manufacturers begin dumping product in the US to drive out existing manufacturing businesses.

    I have witnessed this procedure in several facets of the US electronic, automobile, steel, and power industries.
    Deusenberg- Pierce- ARROW ! made high quality cars that sold for top dollar a la Rolls Royce. The Depression coupled with ruinous tax hikes by both Hoover and FDR damaged or killed a LOT of American luxury manufacturers. Which of course resulted in large lay-offs in both manufacture and sales of same.

    What helped save Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, Boeing and various shipbuilders was gradually increasing defense budgets under FDR.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    I'm very sorry but the philosophy you espouse says in effect that taxpayer money does NOT belong to the taxpayer but instead is "government property".
    I don't know how wrong a person can be when trying to figure out the motives of another person. But you must be very close to the top.

    When I see "STAY OUT GOVERNMENT PROPERTY", or the American flag at ceremonies as belonging the the government or military, or the government wasting taxpayer dollars on boondoggles that enrich a very few people (such as the 'bridge to nowhere'), or the local policeman being caught thieving, or drunkdriving prosecutors hiding 'discovery' evidence, I... well, you should see my facial expression or hear the words I say. My friends all know that and even joke about it. The flag, the property, and the money all belong to the people, not the government. Government thinks they are special and can pretty much do what they can get away with. Instead they should be held to a higher level of responsibility than most all others. And they should be more severely punished when they are caught doing wrong with public property or public trust. If you are going to manage our resources or our lives, you'd better be honest and competent about it.

    You really have NO clue.
    Last edited by threlayer; 05-12-2009 at 06:43 AM.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Deusenberg- Pierce- ARROW ! made high quality cars that sold for top dollar a la Rolls Royce. The Depression coupled with ruinous tax hikes by both Hoover and FDR damaged or killed a LOT of American luxury manufacturers. Which of course resulted in large lay-offs in both manufacture and sales of same.
    And here all along I thought it was because people didn't buy their products any more, rather than them being taxed to death. Certainly Hoover was wrong in his typical conservative style. I have to suppose Roosevelt didn't spend enough before the War. Hoover constricted the money arteries closed by president Coolidge's profilgacy, and Roosevelt's medicine didn't loosen them up enough until the 'fear response' opened them up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    What helped save Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, Boeing and various shipbuilders was gradually increasing defense budgets under FDR.
    Yes. Government spending did it for those under government contract. Salaries and jobs went up, and many things then could be bought by consumers except those under rationing. It certainly wasn't just direct payments for military goods that ended the Depression and its subsequent continual recession.

    Yeah, I know you don't want to hear that.
    Last edited by threlayer; 05-11-2009 at 09:25 AM.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    What helped save Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, Boeing and various shipbuilders was gradually increasing defense budgets under FDR.
    True, and you can add Firestone, 3M, Dow Chemical etc. In point of fact, the gov't assistance that 'saved' these companies was two-fold. Indeed they were guaranteed a significant amount of business via gov't contracts. But what is little publicized is the effect of FDR's wage and price controls ... which dictated that every automaker employee (for example) was to be paid an hourly rate that was somewhere around 50% above the worldwide average. The gov't contracts purchased products from these companies at price levels which allowed them to cover this high mandatory labor cost. However competing companies, who were forced to sell products into the open market at prices the market would bear (versus inflated gov't contract prices), were also required to pay their workers the same high mandatory labor cost. This created a huge profit squeeze on every 'independent' US company and precipitated a huge round of bankruptcies - which actually lowered overall private sector employment.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    And here all along I thought it was because people didn't buy their products any more, rather than them being taxed to death. Certainly Hoover was wrong in his typical conservative style. I have to suppose Roosevelt didn't spend enough before the War. Hoover constricted the money arteries closed by president Coolidge's profilgacy, and Roosevelt's medicine didn't loosen them up enough until the 'fear response' opened them up.

    Yes. Government spending did it for those under government contract. Salaries and jobs went up, and many things then could be bought by consumers except those under rationing. It certainly wasn't just direct payments for military goods that ended the Depression and its subsequent continual recession.

    Yeah, I know you don't want to hear that.
    "Coolidge's profilagcy" ? "Hoover constricted the money arteries" ?? " Roosevelt's 'medicine' " ??? 'fear response" ????

    Clearly, you are making it up as you go along.

    Coolidge had balanced budgets. It was Hoover AND FDR chained to the concept of balanced budgets plus the Fed's irrational fear of inflation that motivated disastrous Federal policy.

    Hoover and FDR raised taxes when the thing to do was cut them.

    The Fed refused to bail out major banks ; raised interest rates and pursued other policies that radically reduced the money supply when it ought to have done the opposite.

    Actually it WAS a radically increased defense budget including "hiring" 15 million people into the military and buying thousands of planes and tanks, millions of small arms, hundreds of ships, millions of uniforms, knapsacks and canteens etc.etc. that in fact ended the Depression. Everything up until then had FAILED.

    During the war, NOBODY could buy anything. NO cars were sold. NO appliances. Even new clothing was rationed. The only things people could buy besides the necessities were War Bonds.

    Gasoline was rationed and civilians generally couldn't fly and military traffic jammed the rail lines so nobody could go away on vacation. Miami Beach would have died were it not for the military filling the hotels.

    It's all there in the history books. Please READ IT !

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    True, and you can add Firestone, 3M, Dow Chemical etc. In point of fact, the gov't assistance that 'saved' these companies was two-fold. Indeed they were guaranteed a significant amount of business via gov't contracts. But what is little publicized is the effect of FDR's wage and price controls ... which dictated that every automaker employee (for example) was to be paid an hourly rate that was somewhere around 50% above the worldwide average. The gov't contracts purchased products from these companies at price levels which allowed them to cover this high mandatory labor cost. However competing companies, who were forced to sell products into the open market at prices the market would bear (versus inflated gov't contract prices), were also required to pay their workers the same high mandatory labor cost. This created a huge profit squeeze on every 'independent' US company and precipitated a huge round of bankruptcies - which actually lowered overall private sector employment.
    Most of FDR's NRA policies were overturned by the Supreme Court. (If only they hadn't lost their nerve and stuck to their Constitutional guns ! ) While some bankruptcies resulted, most occurred because of the dramatic shrinkage of the money supply and collapse of the credit markets. Access to capital was dramatically restricted. It's a major reason why W.W. II FINALLY ended the Depression. A lot of people forget that the U.S. was the last, major industrial nation to emerge from the Depression mostly thanks to the Fed and FDR and their idiotic policies. They caused the Recession of 1938 by raising interest rates and raising taxes (and cutting spending) respectively.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Wage and Price controls are a product of an over-regulating government coupled with an exploitative business and labor market (but not simultaneous). When products become scarce due to wartime rationing, embargoes etc, businesses increase prices because of the opportunity to increase incomes. In order to protect consumers from price gouging temporary measures such as price controls are put into place. It is well known that contralized controls of prices are ineffective in the long run, and are necessary only to protect consumers from exploitative manufacturers, distributors etc. In fact centralized price and supply controls are the mark of totalitarian governments and socialist governments as well. This is an inefficient way to run a country. On thre other hand exploitative businesses taking advantage of socially unfortunate circumstances is corrupt to way to run a society.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    "Coolidge's profilagcy" ? "Hoover constricted the money arteries" ?? " Roosevelt's 'medicine' " ??? 'fear response" ????

    <then a poorly thought-out comment based on knee-jerk reaction against non-regressive thoughts>

    Coolidge had balanced budgets. It was Hoover AND FDR chained to the concept of balanced budgets plus the Fed's irrational fear of inflation that motivated disastrous Federal policy.
    A balanced budget does not make a wealthy society. As Coolidge and his cronies were soon to learn. Coolidge set the stage by allowing financials to run amok. Sound familiar to anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Hoover and FDR raised taxes when the thing to do was cut them.

    The Fed refused to bail out major banks ; raised interest rates and pursued other policies that radically reduced the money supply when it ought to have done the opposite.
    Isn't that what Obama is doing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Actually it WAS a radically increased defense budget including "hiring" 15 million people into the military and buying thousands of planes and tanks, millions of small arms, hundreds of ships, millions of uniforms, knapsacks and canteens etc.etc. that in fact ended the Depression. Everything up until then had FAILED.
    Because it was inadequate; persistent worries about inflation kept the effort down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    During the war, NOBODY could buy anything. NO cars were sold. NO appliances. Even new clothing was rationed. The only things people could buy besides the necessities were War Bonds...
    I know about that. I lived through part of it.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    A balanced budget does not make a wealthy society. As Coolidge and his cronies were soon to learn. Coolidge set the stage by allowing financials to run amok. Sound familiar to anyone?

    Isn't that what Obama is doing?

    Because it was inadequate; persistent worries about inflation kept the effort down.

    I know about that. I lived through part of it.
    We AGREE ! Alert the media ! Pass out the champagne !

    Ironically it was Commerce Secretary Hoover who went to Coolidge and suggested that curbs be imposed on the Stock Market such as increasing margin requirements and imposing an "uptick rule" to control short-selling. Coolidge refused. However it was NOT the Crash that caused the Depression. It was the Fed. And Hoover. And FDR.

    Except for some necessary regulation, most of what FDR did was unecessary and often counter-productive.

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    I'm very sorry but the philosophy you espouse says in effect that taxpayer money does NOT belong to the taxpayer but instead is "government property".
    youtube your self burning a pile of cash and see who comes to visit you with guns and cuffs!

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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol View Post
    youtube your self burning a pile of cash and see who comes to visit you with guns and cuffs!
    It's against the law to burn my OWN money ?

  26. #25
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    Default Re: The Obama Household Model for the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    It's against the law to burn my OWN money ?



    The Federal Reserve owns it all, brother! Know the power of the central bank!

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