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Thread: Question for the customers

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Question for the customers

    How would you feel about visiting a club that had an instituted a low hustle atmosphere? For instance, a club that mandated that the girls use a soft sell method and paid the dancers an hourly wage instead and no house fees to take the financial pressure off them and allow them to relax while working.

    Of course, I recognize there may be a problem with dancers getting lazy and just hiding out between stage sets, but if there was a way to overcome that issue, would you prefer a soft sell to a strong hustle? I can see the appeal of the strong come-on by many dancers as well.

    What would be your ideal (legal, of course) club experience? Do you like the girls basically fighting for your $$attentions$$ or would you rather a more mellow club experience?


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post

    What would be your ideal (legal, of course) club experience? Do you like the girls basically fighting for your $$attentions$$ or would you rather a more mellow club experience?
    I would not go to New Jersey clubs if everything were legal.

    This from the New Jersey Alcoholic Beverage Control Handbook.

    WHAT ARE THE RESTRICTIONS ON GO-GO DANCING?
    Such lewd or immoral activity generally involves the lack of attire or covering on genitals or “private parts,” as well as female
    breasts. See-through garments and the use of “pasties” are not considered sufficient covering. Simulation
    of sexual activity, even if clothed, is also prohibited. Dancers are not permitted to touch or be touched by
    patrons, and this includes the placing of tips in the costume of the dancer.

  3. #3
    Raysworld
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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    How would you feel about visiting a club that had an instituted a low hustle atmosphere? For instance, a club that mandated that the girls use a soft sell method and paid the dancers an hourly wage instead and no house fees to take the financial pressure off them and allow them to relax while working.

    Of course, I recognize there may be a problem with dancers getting lazy and just hiding out between stage sets, but if there was a way to overcome that issue, would you prefer a soft sell to a strong hustle? I can see the appeal of the strong come-on by many dancers as well.

    What would be your ideal (legal, of course) club experience? Do you like the girls basically fighting for your $$attentions$$ or would you rather a more mellow club experience?
    This would be an ideal experience, and would be more inclined to go to SCs.

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    Featured Member minnow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Although I prefer a lower hustle atmosphere over an intense high-pressure one, that factor alone would not nec. be a "deal maker" for me, as I weigh several other factors besides "hustle" when choosing one club over another. To further elaborate, I consider hustle factors to include pressure to buy dancer drinks and how much club leans on "gimickry" (2fers, merchandise giveaways, etc). The more "annoyances" that can be eliminated, the better for me. Ideally, would like to feel as though I've wandered into a sorority house, and the girls (er, women) are glad to see me. Yet, if things like dancer attractiveness, etc. don't measure up to other clubs, mellow atmosphere isn't going to clinch the deal.

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Hmmm, these are interesting responses. I'm in Oregon, so the legal fun here is a lot more realistic than it is in NJ, Earl. We've got full bar with full nudity here, as well as legal live sex shows. It's nice to have a vague 1st amendment in our state constitution. Apparently, dildo shows are "protected free speech" in Oregon.

    I'm working on a business plan, and trying to gauge how strip club customers feel about the sales pressure. I'd like to create an atmosphere where a customer can feel comfortable walking in with $50 or less and still have an enjoyable time. I feel that most club business models today are geared more toward being expensive, once-in-a-while indulgences. I'd like to bring strip clubs into the mainstream and have customers feel more relaxed at a strip club like they would in a club that featured musicians or other forms of entertainment.

    Any suggestions on how to create that kind of relaxed atmosphere, without making the club so mainstream that it quickly becomes a hang-out spot after work?


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Featured Member lopaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Actually - what would be so bad about a SC being more mainstream and attracting the after-work crowd? Assuming that the happy hour people are willing to spend some $$$, of course.

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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    ^^^that's how I treat my club. I go for lunch regularly, and occasionally after work. Come to think of it, I get the low hustle treatment all the time as well. It's very pleasant.

    Good idea Paris.

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Quote Originally Posted by lopaw View Post
    Actually - what would be so bad about a SC being more mainstream and attracting the after-work crowd? Assuming that the happy hour people are willing to spend some $$$, of course.
    It's still gotta be a little bit on the taboo side of the entertainment scale. That's what makes it appealing (aside from beautiful naked girls, of course!). Having a club that is so comfortable and mainstream would be a problem for guys wanting to just relax without a meat market feel to the bar. I would assume that the low hustle atmosphere would definately take on a mainstream crowd on the weekends, but I'm concerned about that happening 7 days a week. Gotta keep some things taboo, and therefore interesting and mysterious.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Maybe it's just because I've only been to upmarket clubs but I enjoy the dancers trying to hustle me and vie for my attention. It takes all the pressure off me and I can relax while they do the hard work.

    Some of the girls get overly pushy or desperate but it has never been a major issue for me.

    I say leave things as they are.

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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    Hmmm, these are interesting responses. I'm in Oregon, so the legal fun here is a lot more realistic than it is in NJ, Earl. We've got full bar with full nudity here, as well as legal live sex shows. It's nice to have a vague 1st amendment in our state constitution. Apparently, dildo shows are "protected free speech" in Oregon.

    I'm working on a business plan, and trying to gauge how strip club customers feel about the sales pressure. I'd like to create an atmosphere where a customer can feel comfortable walking in with $50 or less and still have an enjoyable time. I feel that most club business models today are geared more toward being expensive, once-in-a-while indulgences. I'd like to bring strip clubs into the mainstream and have customers feel more relaxed at a strip club like they would in a club that featured musicians or other forms of entertainment.

    Any suggestions on how to create that kind of relaxed atmosphere, without making the club so mainstream that it quickly becomes a hang-out spot after work?
    I like the idea of burlesque clubs, even though I haven't been to one because we don't have them here in Houston... Sexy costumes, lingerie, fetish wear, goth wear, etc., combined with more "artsy", "smart" and satirical performances really appeals to me... I want to see shows that mix avante-gaard music and performing arts with sensuality and eroticism. I think people would spend more money on a cover charge if there is a real show to see. This would also be more relaxing and appeal to the more educated and arts-oriented "mainstream" crowd. You just need to make the show a little "shocking" and "scandalous" to maintain the taboo element.

    I definitely like a low-hustle environment,... I feel bad rejecting dancers, but I'm very picky.... I'd rather select the one I like and approach her,... instead of having to tell dancers "no thank you"... like, every five minutes... Some guys may be shy, though, so they will not buy dances unless they are hustled...
    Last edited by jack0177057; 05-08-2009 at 02:25 PM.

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    Featured Member gameover's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    How would you feel about visiting a club that had an instituted a low hustle atmosphere? For instance, a club that mandated that the girls use a soft sell method and paid the dancers an hourly wage instead and no house fees to take the financial pressure off them and allow them to relax while working.

    Of course, I recognize there may be a problem with dancers getting lazy and just hiding out between stage sets, but if there was a way to overcome that issue, would you prefer a soft sell to a strong hustle? I can see the appeal of the strong come-on by many dancers as well.

    What would be your ideal (legal, of course) club experience? Do you like the girls basically fighting for your $$attentions$$ or would you rather a more mellow club experience?
    I'd hate to see a club pay hourly wages to dancers, because I think you'd end up with a lot of out of shape, lazy dancers. Nothing can kill the fantasy in a club faster than an overweight dancer. Hey, I'm paying good money, I want want to see hot dancers.

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    I'd hate to see a club pay hourly wages to dancers, because I think you'd end up with a lot of out of shape, lazy dancers. Nothing can kill the fantasy in a club faster than an overweight dancer. Hey, I'm paying good money, I want want to see hot dancers.
    I wasn't so concerned with overweight dancers as I was dancers that hid out in the dressing room all night. It is easy enough to control a schedule with week to week bookings. That and I'd be willing to bet there would be no problem finding dancers that want to get paid for their time to replace those that are sub-par.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Veteran Member dreamer1980's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    a low hustle club would be awesome! it would be more relaxing for both the customer and (probably) the dancer. although, as Paris pointed out, some dancers might become lazy.

    i prefer a more mellow atmosphere, rather than being hit up every few minutes for a dance.

  14. #14
    Raysworld
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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    I wasn't so concerned with overweight dancers as I was dancers that hid out in the dressing room all night. It is easy enough to control a schedule with week to week bookings. That and I'd be willing to bet there would be no problem finding dancers that want to get paid for their time to replace those that are sub-par.
    With a stripper working as a private contractor, you are more likely to have the girls "hustle". From what I understand, if a dance is 500$, the house gets 300$ and the girl gets 200$ + tips. That is a lot of money. On avg. a girl is probably taking home 3-400$ a night. I could be completely wrong but this is what I've been told.

    When you have dancers on a payroll you are less likely to run into trouble in terms of theft and dissatisfied customers/dancers. However, would you be able to give enough insentive to a stripper to work for an hrly wage?

    Also, you are required to give benifits to employees when your business exceeds X number of employees. X varies from state to state i believe.

    I think an hrly thing could work, but you would have to come up with a creative business model, and or deviate from the traditional SC.

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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    I wasn't so concerned with overweight dancers as I was dancers that hid out in the dressing room all night. It is easy enough to control a schedule with week to week bookings. That and I'd be willing to bet there would be no problem finding dancers that want to get paid for their time to replace those that are sub-par.
    You may not be concerned, but I am.

    The problem is, if you pay them, then they are employees, and they can't be easily fired.

    When dancers work for tips, they have incentive to bring their A-game. And if they get lazy or overweight, then the market handles the problem, because the house fees kill them, and they move on to a different line of work.

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    Raysworld
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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    You may not be concerned, but I am.

    The problem is, if you pay them, then they are employees, and they can't be easily fired.

    When dancers work for tips, they have incentive to bring their A-game. And if they get lazy or overweight, then the market handles the problem, because the house fees kill them, and they move on to a different line of work.

    what are you talking about?

    you hire them as models. have your lawyer write up a contract with a "staying fit" clause.

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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Raysworld View Post
    what are you talking about?

    you hire them as models. have your lawyer write up a contract with a "staying fit" clause.
    well good luck with that. What does "fit" mean? Plus that doesn't address lazy. Or attitude. Who do you tihnk works harder? Someone on straight salary, or someone who's income is totally driven by how hard/well they work?

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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    As was discussed in another thread about "Fairness", there are many pros and cons to making the dancers employees instead of independent contractors... I think, overall, the dancers would get a lot of protection and benefits... But, the cost and burdens to the club would increase exponentially... Furthermore, Obama is trying to pass legislation that would make unionization very easy... If dancer could unionize under this legislation, that would be great for them (they'd have a lot of power),... but very detrimental to the clubs...

    There are also liability reasons why making the dancer an employee is a bad idea for the club: (1) any violation of the law committed by the dancer will be attributable to the club and expose the club (and its managers) to criminal and civil liability, (2) the club will have to provide a "safe" working environment for the dancers and become liable for any injury caused by an "unsafe" work conditions and (3) the club will have to comply with anti-discrimination and employee protection laws - for example, it would not be able to fire a dancer for getting pregnant, and may even be required to give her paid leave.

    So, if you're a dancer,... this is good news. But, if you are planning to be the clubowner, this is a lot of expense, responsibility and exposure...

  19. #19
    Raysworld
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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    jack, it is possible to hire stippers as models, and fire them based on appearance right?

    alot of alcoholic vendors do this.

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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Quote Originally Posted by jack0177057 View Post
    Furthermore, Obama is trying to pass legislation that would make unionization very easy... If dancer could unionize under this legislation, that would be great for them (they'd have a lot of power),... but very detrimental to the clubs...
    I have so often talked to dancers about unionizing. That woild be the most powerful union in the world.
    I would like to see management do their job during a strike.

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Raysworld View Post
    Also, you are required to give benifits to employees when your business exceeds X number of employees. X varies from state to state i believe.
    I think this is flawed information. Wal Mart doesn't provide any benefits for their employees and they are the largest employer in the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by gameover View Post
    You may not be concerned, but I am.

    The problem is, if you pay them, then they are employees, and they can't be easily fired.

    When dancers work for tips, they have incentive to bring their A-game. And if they get lazy or overweight, then the market handles the problem, because the house fees kill them, and they move on to a different line of work.
    I actually already have a solution to the employee/ independent contractor conundrum, so no worries there.

    What I'm more concerned with is how to bring a more low hustle model to the strip club business. I want customers to feel comfortable, and I'm seeking feedback as to what would work best to keep you happy. Striking a balance is going to be a challenge between what dancers want and what customers want, but I've always enjoyed a challenge.

    So far, what I'm hearing is:
    1. Low hustle is good if there is some other kind of entertainment going on. ie; awesome stage performances with stunningly beautiful girls.
    2. You still want the girls to approach you and ask for dances, but not be pushy. Maybe even take their time engaging in conversation and flirting before leading into the lap dance question.
    3. You have concerns that clubs that pay their dancers as employees will breed bad attitudes and laziness. This may lead to girls "letting themselves go" and reduced quality of performers in the club.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Raysworld View Post
    jack, it is possible to hire stippers as models, and fire them based on appearance right?

    alot of alcoholic vendors do this.
    It mostly depends on state law (if no employee contract is in effect)... In Texas, you can fire an employee for any reason at all, or no reason, as long as you are not commiting unconstitutional discrimination (e.g., based on race, ethnicity, gender, etc.) or unlawfully rataliating against them (e.g., for filing a worker's comp. claim, reporting criminal activity, etc.)

    It would be interesting to see how Hooters handles this... They've dealt with a lot of litigation regarding employee issues... They were sued once by a guy who wanted to be Hooters waiter but was "discriminated" against because he was a male...

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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    There is a BFOQ defense to firing or not hiring a class of people.

    BONA FIDE OCCUPATIONAL QUALIFICATION - To establish the defense of bona fide occupational qualification the defendant has the burden of proving that a definable group/class of employees would be unable to perform the job safely and efficiently or that it was impossible or highly impractical to consider the qualifications of each such employee and that the bona fide occupational qualification is reasonably necessary to the operation of the business.

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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Earl_the_Pearl View Post
    There is a BFOQ defense to firing or not hiring a class of people.

    BONA FIDE OCCUPATIONAL QUALIFICATION - To establish the defense of bona fide occupational qualification the defendant has the burden of proving that a definable group/class of employees would be unable to perform the job safely and efficiently or that it was impossible or highly impractical to consider the qualifications of each such employee and that the bona fide occupational qualification is reasonably necessary to the operation of the business.
    I don't know about this exception, but I am sure it applies in only extremely limited circumstances... Otherwise, it would have been used against women in the military, police, fire department and other male-dominated occupations that have traditionally been considered to require "masculine strength".

  25. #25
    Raysworld
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    Default Re: Question for the customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    I think this is flawed information. Wal Mart doesn't provide any benefits for their employees and they are the largest employer in the US.
    where on earth did you hear that?

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