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Thread: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

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    Default Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    ... this is actually a 'prequel' to attempts by other states, notably New York, New Jersey and California, to balance their budgets via enacting large state / local income tax increases which will 'supposedly' only affect highest income state residents.


    (snip)Here's a two-minute drill in soak-the-rich economics:

    Maryland couldn't balance its budget last year, so the state tried to close the shortfall by fleecing the wealthy. Politicians in Annapolis created a millionaire tax bracket, raising the top marginal income-tax rate to 6.25%. And because cities such as Baltimore and Bethesda also impose income taxes, the state-local tax rate can go as high as 9.45%. Governor Martin O'Malley, a dedicated class warrior, declared that these richest 0.3% of filers were "willing and able to pay their fair share." The Baltimore Sun predicted the rich would "grin and bear it."

    One year later, nobody's grinning. One-third of the millionaires have disappeared from Maryland tax rolls. In 2008 roughly 3,000 million-dollar income tax returns were filed by the end of April. This year there were 2,000, which the state comptroller's office concedes is a "substantial decline." On those missing returns, the government collects 6.25% of nothing. Instead of the state coffers gaining the extra $106 million the politicians predicted, millionaires paid $100 million less in taxes than they did last year -- even at higher rates.

    No doubt the majority of that loss in millionaire filings results from the recession. However, this is one reason that depending on the rich to finance government is so ill-advised: Progressive tax rates create mountains of cash during good times that vanish during recessions. For evidence, consult California, New York and New Jersey (see here).

    The Maryland state revenue office says it's "way too early" to tell how many millionaires moved out of the state when the tax rates rose. But no one disputes that some rich filers did leave. It's easier than the redistributionists think. Christopher Summers, president of the Maryland Public Policy Institute, notes: "Marylanders with high incomes typically own second homes in tax friendlier states like Florida, Delaware, South Carolina and Virginia. So it's easy for them to change their residency."

    All of this means that the burden of paying for bloated government in Annapolis will fall on the middle class. Thanks to the futility of soaking the rich, these working families will now pay Mr. O'Malley's "fair share."(snip)

    from

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    lolololol There was an article last week dealing with unemployment stats. The Democratic controlled areas had a rate 20% higher then nonDemocrat areas.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ... this is actually a 'prequel' to attempts by other states, notably New York, New Jersey and California, to balance their budgets via enacting large state / local income tax increases which will 'supposedly' only affect highest income state residents.


    (snip)Here's a two-minute drill in soak-the-rich economics:

    Maryland couldn't balance its budget last year, so the state tried to close the shortfall by fleecing the wealthy. Politicians in Annapolis created a millionaire tax bracket, raising the top marginal income-tax rate to 6.25%. And because cities such as Baltimore and Bethesda also impose income taxes, the state-local tax rate can go as high as 9.45%. Governor Martin O'Malley, a dedicated class warrior, declared that these richest 0.3% of filers were "willing and able to pay their fair share." The Baltimore Sun predicted the rich would "grin and bear it."

    One year later, nobody's grinning. One-third of the millionaires have disappeared from Maryland tax rolls. In 2008 roughly 3,000 million-dollar income tax returns were filed by the end of April. This year there were 2,000, which the state comptroller's office concedes is a "substantial decline." On those missing returns, the government collects 6.25% of nothing. Instead of the state coffers gaining the extra $106 million the politicians predicted, millionaires paid $100 million less in taxes than they did last year -- even at higher rates.

    No doubt the majority of that loss in millionaire filings results from the recession. However, this is one reason that depending on the rich to finance government is so ill-advised: Progressive tax rates create mountains of cash during good times that vanish during recessions. For evidence, consult California, New York and New Jersey (see here).

    The Maryland state revenue office says it's "way too early" to tell how many millionaires moved out of the state when the tax rates rose. But no one disputes that some rich filers did leave. It's easier than the redistributionists think. Christopher Summers, president of the Maryland Public Policy Institute, notes: "Marylanders with high incomes typically own second homes in tax friendlier states like Florida, Delaware, South Carolina and Virginia. So it's easy for them to change their residency."

    All of this means that the burden of paying for bloated government in Annapolis will fall on the middle class. Thanks to the futility of soaking the rich, these working families will now pay Mr. O'Malley's "fair share."(snip)

    from http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124329282377252471.html
    There are a number of reasons for this phenomenon :

    1. The "rich" did not make a lot of money last year because of the Market Crash and Financial Crisis.

    2. A LOT of "rich" people live in Maryland BUT for tax purposes they are residents of another state. Some of the worst offenders are Democrat Congresspeople and Senators along with a LOT of highly paid appointees, bureaucrats and lobbyists.
    George H.W. Bush lived in Washington, D.C. for 12 years but for tax purposes he was a Texas resident. Bill and Hill were residents of Arkansas; Gore, Tennessee; Nixon and Reagan, California ( before fiscal madness set in ), G.W., Texas; Cheney, Wyoming ;etc. etc.

    3. The tax lawyers and CPA's of America should send a gigantic Thank You Note and at least a dozen big fruit baskets to the Maryland Legislature. They were working overtime minimizing income; maximizing losses and deductions and using all sorts of other legal means to reduce taxable income for Maryland 's wealthier residents.
    What was it Fitzgerald and Hemingway supposedly said : " The rich are different from you and I " - "Yes. They have more money." And now we can add : "They have better lawyers and accountants."

    4. Two of the four wealthiest counties in the U.S. are in Maryland. Howard and Montgomery Counties are both suburbs of D.C. As are the other two: Fairfax and Loudon Counties in Virginia.

    5. The MOST important reason : Money and PEOPLE are mobile.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 05-27-2009 at 11:24 AM.
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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Not everyone gets mad at taxes and runs away to another country Mel....as much as you might like to think they would. Some people see value in the services they pay for.

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Those poor oppressed millionaires! They should have a tea party by dumping their gold bars into the ocean in whatever banana republic they live. That'll teach those democrats.

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeybobby View Post
    Not everyone gets mad at taxes and runs away to another country Mel....as much as you might like to think they would. Some people see value in the services they pay for.
    You continually miss the obvious: People are assuaged when paying taxes when they, THEMSELVES, can see a benefit from same. What they don't like and don't want to pay for is having their money taken away to be given to somebody else who is supposedly more "worthy".
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by rlams2000 View Post
    Those poor oppressed millionaires! They should have a tea party by dumping their gold bars into the ocean in whatever banana republic they live. That'll teach those democrats.
    This is the sort of superficial thinking and class envy that breeds disastrous policy.
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    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    "Maryland couldn't balance its budget last year, so the state tried to close the shortfall by fleecing the wealthy. Politicians in Annapolis created a millionaire tax bracket, raising the top marginal income-tax rate to 6.25%..."

    "One year later, nobody's grinning. One-third of the millionaires have disappeared from Maryland tax rolls. In 2008 roughly 3,000 million-dollar income tax returns were filed by the end of April. This year there were 2,000, which the state comptroller's office concedes is a "substantial decline...."

    "No doubt the majority of that loss in millionaire filings results from the recession. However, this is one reason that depending on the rich to finance government is so ill-advised..."
    Since the uber-rich have plenty money to hire experts in tax-avoidance techniques, perhaps they have gotten busy doing that.

    In any case the progressive marginal tax rate system is due for a huge overhaul with even lower rates reaching a bit fartyher down inincome and higher rates reaching farther up into higher incomes, with fewer loopholes, meaning a LOT of simplification.

    There are plenty of cases where lower-middle class people are taxed into the poor class. And many of cases where the uber-rich place greater burdens on the system, especially of local/state resources, than any equivalent (in taxes) collection of the poor ever could.

    I'm sure everyone who is in the rich class has made their choices of places to reside, ad where they have their second,third etc homes. They are not going to find any better places to live than in the USA, unless their lifestyles have extenuating circumstances. And if they do, it's probably better that way.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    In any case I believe the progressive marginal tax rate system for both federal and state taxes must be greatly modified. I'd like to see, on the low end, greater penetration of even lower tax rates (not stopping at 10%) with more realistic considerations of the cost of the essentials of life (food, healthcare, shelter, work expenses). And I'd like to see a much greater increase in marginal rates, but at a lower acceleration, at higher incomes, with vastly fewer loopholes and simplifications.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    You continually miss the obvious: People are assuaged when paying taxes when they, THEMSELVES, can see a benefit from same. What they don't like and don't want to pay for is having their money taken away to be given to somebody else who is supposedly more "worthy".
    You miss the point Eric. "Worthy" has got nothing to do with it. Pitching in and helping fellow citizens who need help is only one part of what taxes can do in the best countries. Most of it goes towards services that everyone needs, including the rich.

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeybobby View Post
    You miss the point Eric. "Worthy" has got nothing to do with it. Pitching in and helping fellow citizens who need help is only one part of what taxes can do in the best countries. Most of it goes towards services that everyone needs, including the rich.
    There is a kernel of truth to that. People generally ARE willing to pay higher taxes for BETTER services. Not higher for the same and certainly not more for less.
    A
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    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeybobby View Post
    Not everyone gets mad at taxes and runs away to another country Mel....as much as you might like to think they would. Some people see value in the services they pay for.
    Only in Canada.

    In the US, they will tax you for a new road and then stick a toll booth on it.

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by rlams2000 View Post
    Those poor oppressed millionaires! They should have a tea party by dumping their gold bars into the ocean in whatever banana republic they live. That'll teach those democrats.
    Democratically controlled areas have the highest unemployment rates and asset deflation.

    I would say they are getting a lesson already.

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol View Post
    Democratically controlled areas have the highest unemployment rates
    I read an article earlier this week about this, unemployment is 20% higher in Democratic controlled areas.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Snark View Post
    But then I suppose the sort of people who write this kind of crap generally don't allow their opinions to be tainted by things like "facts" and "reality".
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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by glambman View Post
    I read an article earlier this week about this, unemployment is 20% higher in Democratic controlled areas.
    Democratic areas are blue collar working class so of course they would be hit the hardest. It is the horse and sparrow trickle down economics; the horse doesn't have as much hay.

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by Earl_the_Pearl View Post
    Democratic areas are blue collar working class so of course they would be hit the hardest. It is the horse and sparrow trickle down economics; the horse doesn't have as much hay.
    Oh ? How about high tax, high tech, "white collar" states like N.Y., N.J. and of course, C A L I F O R N I A ?
    A
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    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Oh ? How about high tax, high tech, "white collar" states like N.Y., N.J. and of course, C A L I F O R N I A ?
    I don't know as I did not read the article; I was just making a little joke. Very little; poof there it gos.

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol View Post
    Democratically controlled areas have the highest unemployment rates and asset deflation.

    I would say they are getting a lesson already.
    Those 'Democratically controlled areas' are the large cities, where the poor tend to congregate, since they cannot make it in the country and can't find places to live in the suburbs. Due to mass exodus a generation or three ago, the cheaper places to live are largely rented out, often by slumlords.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    Those 'Democratically controlled areas' are the large cities, where the poor tend to congregate, since they cannot make it in the country and can't find places to live in the suburbs. Due to mass exodus a generation or three ago, the cheaper places to live are largely rented out, often by slumlords.
    And WHO created the policies that attracted all those poor people and kept them poor ?
    Who disincentivized work and incentivized illegitimacy ?
    Who created, maintained and defended a school system that perpetuated illiteracy and lack of English proficiency ?
    Who taxed, regulated and zoned many employers out of business or into re-locating ?
    A
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena... who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither.
    Teddy Roosevelt

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    And WHO created the policies that attracted all those poor people and kept them poor ?
    It was the people that settled the Americas.

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    And WHO created the policies that attracted all those poor people and kept them poor ?
    Who disincentivized work and incentivized illegitimacy ?
    Who created, maintained and defended a school system that perpetuated illiteracy and lack of English proficiency ?
    Who taxed, regulated and zoned many employers out of business or into re-locating ?
    Blaming all the poor and uneducated people on Democrats?

    That's....rich! lol

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    ^^^ ahhh ... if only the Canadian gov't would allow the immigration of 'poor' Americans, as well as international refugees, maybe I wouldn't have been pushed to move out of New York !



    For a fact, Canada is much more difficult to immigrate to than the USA ... at least in the case where the would-be immigrant has low level skills. This is of course a logical development in a country that has very generous social welfare benefits and comparatively high tax rates necessary to fund those benefits. In other words, by denying international refugees entry into Canada, and thus forcing the US to 'take up the slack', middle class Canadian taxpayers are spared the expense of providing social welfare benefits to said refugees ... while US / New York taxpayers do NOT escape such expense. Does that make Canada smart or selfish ?

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ ahhh ... if only the Canadian gov't would allow the immigration of 'poor' Americans, as well as international refugees, maybe I wouldn't have been pushed to move out of New York !
    Did you read my comment on who brought the poor to the US of A?

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    It was the people that settled the Americas
    There's a major flaw in your 'history'. Again not wanting to swing too far away from the economics and toward the politics, but for a fact the people that settled the Americas did not enact policies that KEPT poor immigrants poor !!! Prior to the 1930's at least ... and prior to the 1960's for certain, 'poor' people living in America had a strong incentive to work their way out of poverty. This began to change under FDR ... and changed in a big way under LBJ ... because they both enacted policies which created a 'moral hazard' for poor Americans who chose to work their asses off ! That 'moral hazard' took the form of an increasing paycheck resulting in a direct loss of social welfare benefits.

    Put another way, thanks to FDR / LBJ social welfare programs, the 'compassion' of generous gov't benefits was directly juxtaposed against previous incentives towards hard work. As Stoner has already pointed out, it was these policies which resulted in fatherless families (i.e. single mom is eligible for social welfare benefits but mom & dad household is not). It was these policies which resulted in many 'poor' Americans refusing to work at minimum wage ( or close to minimum wage) jobs, because the resulting after tax paycheck does not offset the lost cash value of subsidized rent, subsidized utilities, medicaid, food stamps, and other lost social welfare benefits once their earnings exceed the $21k per year threshold for full eligibility.

    This 'moral hazard' situation regarding social welfare benefit generosity and eligibility is a 'recent' development i.e. it post-dates your American settlers by at least 150 years ! However, the LBJ 'great society' programs and their descendants have been around for three generations now. Arguably, these generous social welfare programs have strongly contributed towards poor Americans remaining poor ... via the culture of public housing, via the culture of fatherless families, by 'penalizing' the work efforts of the poor ( i.e. standard of living will not improve between $21k income level and $35k income level due to loss of gov't benefits which must now be paid for out of pocket), by the lack of a 'work ethic' example in many poor families, by low expectations / low quality education in urban schools with a high concentration of students from poor families, etc. And like it or not, like 'grandfather' FDR and 'father' LBJ, the architects of these generous social welfare programs, public housing programs, urban school systems etc. are almost without exception Democrats !

    ~

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    Default Re: Maryland TRIED raising taxes on the 'rich' ... but the Rich Go Missing !

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    There's a major flaw in your 'history'. Again not wanting to swing too far away from the economics and toward the politics, but for a fact the people that settled the Americas did not enact policies that KEPT poor immigrants poor !!!
    I will not go into it in an open form. Chech P.M.

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