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Thread: the 'migration' is starting ...

  1. #1
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default the 'migration' is starting ...

    Higher unemployment combined with lower city budgets = more temptation towards criminal activity with less cops on the beat. The natural result is a rising crime rate re robberies / break-ins / burglaries. The natural reaction is for those who have something worth robbing / stealing to start moving out of the area.


    (snip)"Officials from a venture capital capital firm in Mount Vernon have told Mayor Sheila Dixon and other city officials it's moving its offices out of the city because workers do not feel safe because of increased crime.

    Louis Citron, general counsel of New Enterprise Associates on St. Paul Street told WBAL News that 35 employees will move to a site in Timonium in mid-December.

    Citron notified city officials of the company's decision to move in an email Thursday.

    Citron told WBAL News that the decision was not made lightly, but that a number of employees had been the victims of car break-ins, and one employee was robbed at gunpoint recently.

    He added that none of the employees were seriously hurt in any of the incident. He said most of the break-ins were in cars parked in parking garages.

    Citron said the crimes occurred over a number of months, but there had been an increase recently.

    "Employees started saying we don't feel real secure walking to an from our cars to the garages, and we decided it was time to make the move," Citron told WBAL News"(snip)

    from


    I wonder how the same sort of scenario is beginning to play out for customers of strip clubs located in similar areas ?


    I also wonder about the potential 'vicious cycle' being established. As more and more businesses and their relatively high paying jobs / highly paid employees migrate out of the cities to (supposedly) escape the effects of rising crime, this results in less economic activity and tax revenue for that city ... which in turn means fewer profits / jobs at local businesses as well as even fewer cops ... which in turn increases the odds that crime rates will rise even higher ... which will motovate even more businessas and their relatively high paying jobs / highly paid employees to leave !!!

    On the other hand, rising crime rates could also merely be a convenient excuse for businesses to escape rising city taxes / regulations / costs of doing business in favor of lower cost suburbs.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-06-2009 at 06:07 AM.

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: the 'migration' is starting ...

    When people are trading stories of being robbed and having guns pointed at them, the business needs to take notice of this. Taxes are a nuisance (one merely passes them on to the customer) but when you have people saying they won't work past 6:00pm because it is unsafe - that is a problem.

    This is an example of how corruption in our government(s) has an effect. You can bet that while they were firing police officers, the bureaucrats were creating unnecessary programs, spending money on consultants over nothing, refurbishing their offices (as many have been busted for in recent months) and a list of BS spending to puff up their ego's while scaring the public into paying more taxes. Well, gladly, the public is waking up to this - or if already aware, are finally making some noise about it.

    In my younger years I went to strip clubs (late 20's early 30's) and the costs kept the riff raff out. I noticed during the .com burst clubs seemed to be filled more with gangster wanna be's, the girls were getting stupider, ya take a piss and a bathroom monkey is there with his hand out and really... I grew out of it after a few years.

    Now every time there is a shooting or a stripper attacks someone it ends up on tuscl. One never really seen this sort of thing show up over there but conversation about safety issues is on there daily now. Everything from shootings, beatings, being stolen from (the real thing as opposed to a "rip off bitch" ROB) in the parking lot to shake downs by bouncers, to clubs taking advantage of credit cards - even in these short years the scene seems to have really changed since 2000's. But, I suppose things change over ten years.

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    Senior Member achickonspeed's Avatar
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    Default Re: the 'migration' is starting ...

    I just want to add my experience.....I grew up in Baltimore - I know Baltimore - and THIS HAS ALWAYS been the case. I was robbed at gunpoint at 15 in a "safe" neighborhood. I don't think you can make assumptions and generalizations about the state of the world in crisis and make Baltimore your example. Baltimore is and always has been a sh*thole with rampant crime.

    Otherwise I think your posts are extremely insightful, Melanie!

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: the 'migration' is starting ...

    ^^^ Baltimore is no different than any other large city, in that there were areas where it was 'expected' that crime rates were high, and other areas where it was expected that crime rates were low ... with an occasional 'surprise'. As I said in my original post, I wasn't sure whether or not rising crime rates are actually occurring in previously 'safe' areas, and if so whether businesses are actually being motivated to move by rising crime or simply using it as an excuse.

    But either way, the end result is the same ... the businesses and their employees wind up relocating outside the 'beltway' ... the city loses tax revenue, city businesses lose customers ... the city is forced to lay off even more cops ... criminals become even bolder ...

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    Veteran Member StuartL's Avatar
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    Default Re: the 'migration' is starting ...

    Can you blame them for moving? Wouldn't we all try given the chance? But I think Mel is right, people that can afford to move will head towards safer places. Perhaps New York merchant banks will start heading into Nebraska or somewhere...? Ok, maybe not, but I hear the land is cheap.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: the 'migration' is starting ...

    ^^^ no chance on Wall St. Banks moving anywhere ... except out of the USA to avoid future gov't regulations / taxes / salary caps etc. LOL

    Actually, the not so secret secret about Wall St. - and for that matter most of 'lower Manhattan' - is that NYC cops are all over this area. At the same time, there are neigborhoods within 5 miles of Manhattan where the NYC cops don't dare to enter. I am told that this setup is standard procedure in Europe i.e. French police heavily patrol the Champs Elysees but don't dare enter 'Le Zone'.

    However, the area involved in the news story I posted doesn't fit either of these scenarios. Arguably, the areas now losing businesses and their highly skilled highly paid employees due to rising crime rates are the formerly 'safe' nearby suburbs of large US cities. The theory of course is that 'restless natives' from the city centers are now branching out farther and farther from their 'home turf' in search of low risk but lucrative potential targets. This is not to say that there aren't some EXTREMELY lucrative targets very close to home, i.e. Manhattan Millionaires. However going after those sort of targets involves a comparatively high degree of risk, given the level of Manhattan police protection, given the private security measures employed by the Manhattan Millionaires, etc. But moving out a few miles into the nearby suburbs results in a far lower level of ( donut eating, never shot their gun outside of the police pistol range) local police protection, far less 'prepared' potential crime victims etc. thus providing the would-be robbers and burglars with a far better risk versus reward equation.

    Going on a step, even if suburban governments weren't strapped for tax revenue cash, it is doubtful that suburban police departments have the necessary professionalism or dedication to truly deter criminal activities. Being strapped for cash guarantees that this won't happen. Thus the 'upscale' businesses and their employees are left with two basic choices ... put up with the increasing probability of being robbed / mugged / burgarized by remaining in nearby suburbs, or put some more distance between themselves and the criminals ( or more accurately, put 'different victims' between themselves and the criminals i.e. remaining residents of the nearby suburbs !)

    Of course, once beyond the 'beltway', would-be robbers / muggers / burglars experience rising risks again. To begin with, the odds of the intended victim owning a gun increases. The, shall we say, 'tenacity' of sherriff's dept's and state police is far higher than that of suburban municipal cops. And the 'sympathy towards criminals' of county courts / jails / jury members is likely to be far lower than their counterparts in 'rich, liberal' nearby suburbs.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-07-2009 at 10:54 AM.

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    Default Re: the 'migration' is starting ...

    Well come to think of it, when I lived in a really rough neighborhood in Phila. there were hardly any businesses. One laundrmat, one Mc Donalds. I had to drive all the way to Cheltenham (? can't remeber it's been so long) to go to the grocery store, about 30 minutes away and also like 20 minutes to use the ATM. So it makes perfect sense to me.
    XoXo Gia
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    Default Re: the 'migration' is starting ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ no chance on Wall St. Banks moving anywhere ... except out of the USA to avoid future gov't regulations / taxes / salary caps etc. LOL

    Actually, the not so secret secret about Wall St. - and for that matter most of 'lower Manhattan' - is that NYC cops are all over this area. At the same time, there are neigborhoods within 5 miles of Manhattan where the NYC cops don't dare to enter. I am told that this setup is standard procedure in Europe i.e. French police heavily patrol the Champs Elysees but don't dare enter 'Le Zone'.

    However, the area involved in the news story I posted doesn't fit either of these scenarios. Arguably, the areas now losing businesses and their highly skilled highly paid employees due to rising crime rates are the formerly 'safe' nearby suburbs of large US cities. The theory of course is that 'restless natives' from the city centers are now branching out farther and farther from their 'home turf' in search of low risk but lucrative potential targets. This is not to say that there aren't some EXTREMELY lucrative targets very close to home, i.e. Manhattan Millionaires. However going after those sort of targets involves a comparatively high degree of risk, given the level of Manhattan police protection, given the private security measures employed by the Manhattan Millionaires, etc. But moving out a few miles into the nearby suburbs results in a far lower level of ( donut eating, never shot their gun outside of the police pistol range) local police protection, far less 'prepared' potential crime victims etc. thus providing the would-be robbers and burglars with a far better risk versus reward equation.

    Going on a step, even if suburban governments weren't strapped for tax revenue cash, it is doubtful that suburban police departments have the necessary professionalism or dedication to truly deter criminal activities. Being strapped for cash guarantees that this won't happen. Thus the 'upscale' businesses and their employees are left with two basic choices ... put up with the increasing probability of being robbed / mugged / burgarized by remaining in nearby suburbs, or put some more distance between themselves and the criminals ( or more accurately, put 'different victims' between themselves and the criminals i.e. remaining residents of the nearby suburbs !)

    Of course, once beyond the 'beltway', would-be robbers / muggers / burglars experience rising risks again. To begin with, the odds of the intended victim owning a gun increases. The, shall we say, 'tenacity' of sherriff's dept's and state police is far higher than that of suburban municipal cops. And the 'sympathy towards criminals' of county courts / jails / jury members is likely to be far lower than their counterparts in 'rich, liberal' nearby suburbs.

    ~
    Where are these NYC neighborhoods where the NYPD fears to tread ? Are there a few areas where they don't like to go ? East New York, a few streets in the Bronx but afaik, that's about it. And they will go there in response to a call. Not alone. Maybe not even in just a pair, but they will go.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: the 'migration' is starting ...

    ^^^ the overall point in regard to rising crime rates are that these areas are not routinely patrolled. Whether it is France's 'Le Zone' or East NY or East LA for that matter, in order to actually get police to act a significant crime must have already been committed, and the police have to judge the 'incursion' into 'hostile territory' to be worth the risk they take by simply going there ! The specific point about rising crime rates in nearby suburbs is that local suburban cops are not overjoyed about exposing themselves to increasing risk either ... and they usually don't have the immediately available backup / riot gear / heavy weapons that ARE in fact available to big city police ( if the dep't chooses to use them ).

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    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
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    Default Re: the 'migration' is starting ...

    STARTING????

    This has been going on for decades. where have the editors been hiding?
    Last edited by threlayer; 06-10-2009 at 03:13 PM.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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