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Thread: Customer Violence?:'(

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    Default Customer Violence?:'(

    It has come to my attention that recently some customers have been getting rather violent with the dancers at numerous clubs around the U.S. I am wondering even though we have alot of security in clubs who are often doing there jobs if anyone has an further advice. I have seen a growing number of stragling cases ( had a customer actually take a pair of beads to my friends neck last night due to the no touching rule) and in one case a girl got her nipple bitten... OFF! Any advice ladies is appreciated.

    All I can think of is to grow some stripper eyes in the back of our heads and be ready at all times. This just needs to stop!

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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    Always keep your eyes on the customer. A lot of dancers sort of "space out" when they dance. They put their boobs in customers faces so they can space out and look over the customer's heads. They turn around and grind their bottoms on customers while spacing out. All of these are perfect times for a guy to "whip it out" or just generally harass or physically abuse a dancer. You can also use techniques like making sure that you find a lap dance spot closer to the security guy or right underneath a security camera to make sure someone is always watching.
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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylea2 View Post
    They turn around and grind their bottoms on customers while spacing out. All of these are perfect times for a guy to "whip it out" or just generally harass or physically abuse a dancer.
    Yeah, that's so true. I've done that, and it's happened to me. Now I'm much more vigilant.

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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    I'm glad that you started this trend because it does happen a little too often. I once worked with this drop-dead gorgeous girl (maybe some of you know who I am taking about) - with a gorgeous personality also, that had scars on her neck, chest, shoulders and part of her face (underneath her chin) area because a customer threw an oil candle on her and lit her on fire!!~!! They thankfully were only second degree burns (I'd guess because I've seen much worse burn scars before) but the poor girl has to walk around the rest of her life mutilated allbecause of some asshole in a strip club when she was 20.
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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    And at a club in Miami a dancer had her nose broken while she was giving a guy a lapdance because his super-psycho girlfriend walked in the front door at the exact second the dancer was table dancing for her boyfriend. It did happen very suddenly but what the hell? The club owners hire bouncers and we tip them out, but they always seem to be on the scene a little too late!
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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    Unfortunately violence in stripper violence isn't new. I've seen some very vicious acts even when I first started. I saw customers hit girls and managers doing nothing about it. Seems it's gotten worse because of a few culprits:

    1) The economy. When the economy was good, the managers could throw out troublemakers. Now though they need every penny. Previous acts that would have caused being kicked out don't. This also applies to clubs that can't (or won't) hire more or better quality bouncers.

    2) Loosening of morals. With more extra girls, and less restrictions are causing this. Many guys think extra girls are trash (and let's face it many are) so they treat them that way. Shouldn't mean they can hurt the girls, but these guys think they can. I look at a club I worked in that went from a bikini no touch to nude full touch. The guys can get away with more.

    I always tell dancers to learn self defense. I was taught how to punch by my dad and it's a valuable skill. I've punched guys when they tried to get violent with me. Also, like mentioned, NEVER take your eyes off them. During a party I always watch the guys. I don't trust any customers, no matter how nice.

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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    Also, stay SOBER!!! Girls are much more susceptible to violence or acts that are inappropriate if they are not aware of every little thing going on, which we have to be. We need to be watching at all times, even when dancing with our backs to them we have to keep them in our peripheral vision.
    I see girls all the time wasted (some I don't know how they even make it through the night...) and when they have issues either the bouncers cannot communicate with them and even if it was the customers fault, they aren't heard b/c the club writes it off as drunk drama.... Stay sober and the club will always take your side.
    We girls have to look out for each other too, if a guy is creepy or crosses the line, tell others not to go to him or tell the bouncers to keep an eye on him to avoid any other issues..

    This is such an unfortunate thing... guys drink too much and act a fool, or they come in with anger issues to take it out on a defenseless woman (mostly emotionally but obviously physically sometimes also).. I like what kelly said about self defense classes... I'm actually taking one Saturday. We cannot take on a man, but we can at least get a head start until the bouncers get there!

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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    Quote Originally Posted by Christyismyalias View Post
    Also, stay SOBER!!! Girls are much more susceptible to violence or acts that are inappropriate if they are not aware of every little thing going on, which we have to be. We need to be watching at all times, even when dancing with our backs to them we have to keep them in our peripheral vision.
    I see girls all the time wasted (some I don't know how they even make it through the night...) and when they have issues either the bouncers cannot communicate with them and even if it was the customers fault, they aren't heard b/c the club writes it off as drunk drama.... Stay sober and the club will always take your side.
    We girls have to look out for each other too, if a guy is creepy or crosses the line, tell others not to go to him or tell the bouncers to keep an eye on him to avoid any other issues..

    This is such an unfortunate thing... guys drink too much and act a fool, or they come in with anger issues to take it out on a defenseless woman (mostly emotionally but obviously physically sometimes also).. I like what kelly said about self defense classes... I'm actually taking one Saturday. We cannot take on a man, but we can at least get a head start until the bouncers get there!
    Good advice.
    xoxo

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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    That's great advice Christy!
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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    Not spacing out, staying sober, and taking self defense classes are all very good bits of advice. I'd like to add one more: LISTEN TO YOUR GUT.

    This past Saturday night, I got hurt by a guy I just KNEW in my heart of hearts was bad news. I just knew the minute I saw him that he was going to be trouble. I had an awful feeling about dancing for him, but I did it anyway, because I needed the money.

    He was awfully handsy. The more I thwarted his grabs and pokes, the more forceful he got. Finally, I took his hands in mine and pinned them at his sides. "That's it, man. The dance is over. I warned you, and you keep behaving like an asshole. We're done. So I hope you're happy with yourself." I started to slide off his lap. He broke his hands out of my grip and pulled on my leg as hard as he could, flipping me off of his lap, onto the floor. I hit my head on the table and got rug burn on my back and knee.

    As I scrambled away to get the bouncer, I heard the man and his friends saying "Who cares? She's just a stripper." and "Haha, you're a fucking CUNT!"

    Luckily, there were enough witnesses (including horrified other customers) that management decided to throw the guy and his pals out.

    But yeah, if a guy really makes you uneasy like that, listen to your lizard brain. It knows danger when it sees it.

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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    I always warn other girls to stay away from guys who have tried to cross my lines on stage or in casual conversation. Whether they tried to grab my boob while tipping me a dollar or put a hand on my ass while talking to me, etc, I make sure the next girl knows to be careful. Also if a guy is obviously too drunk or too high to behave himself, I simply won't bother selling him a dance. I might lose a little money that way, but so be it.

    I've found that the best way to control a man before having to kick him out is to hold onto one finger from each hand. If I just want to get the dance over with and he hasn't done anything to merit being thrown out yet, I grab a finger from each hand and push it up past his head and hold it there. It's not violent, but at the same time he can't move his hands or arms without pain.

    Fortunately I have never been violently accosted, but then again I'm always sober and I try to weed out the assholes.




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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    ive met some shady people. i definitely agree go with your gut. I am also selective about who i go to vip with. If anyone gives me the creepy rapist vibe, i refuse to go to the private rooms iwht them unless i am certain that i can take them if necessary. And if i feel like they might be trouble but decide to go through with it, i make sure to request that the waitress come to bring us a drink in like 10 min so they are less likely to try bullshit. Ive honestly had good luck at deterring creeps... usually they prey on the other girls.

    our job is sometimes scary. getting naked for any stranger with enough money is risky. I do wish the clubs would step up the bouncers and supervision. That way extras would be deterred and i would feel more at ease.

    in other semi related news, i came across this today: http://www.mg.co.za/article/2009-06-...ica-admit-rape
    article states 1/4 of south african men admit to raping a woman. It doesnt apply to american men in strip clubs so much, but its a pretty terrifying testament of violence against women. Men are fucked up...

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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    Man, yesterday some bastard asian guy got violent. I should have known better cause hes always drunk *he comes in the club alot so I kinda know him* and he acts silly. Im giving him a dance and when I turn around he mentions my tattoo on my back. I move my hair and bend down so he can get a better look and he just slaps the shit out of my back!!! it stung soooo bad and I was so pissed, i went to a bouncer and told him to kick this asshole out!

    If you have a bad feeling always stay on your toes...dont ever let your guard down..

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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    I encountered a friend of a friend while I was at the club. I even thought he was somewhat cute, but I knew he was a total coke head. As I was stepping down from the stage, he grabbed me by my hair really hard, like something you might see on a more degrading porn site. In comparison to some of the other stories, it was a relatively "tame" act of aggression, but my whole stripper persona is based on being in control at all times. I was more embarrassed that anyone who was watching me saw this happen. The bouncers did throw him out and he caused a big scene outside too. It totally threw off my game for the night though, and to think I was aquainted with this guy in real life.

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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    I'd like to go back to the 'spaced out' thing and address a couple things this brings up.

    If you are giving a dance, eye contact creates a sense of intimacy with the customer. Keep the eye contact for as long as possible. When you turn around, peek over your shoulder at him. This habit not only gives the sense that you are interested in him and can lead to more dances,
    but also helps you to keep your eyes on him at almost all times.

    It is possible that all of the factors that Kellydancer has mentioned have banded together to make many men have a shitty opinion of dancers (ya THINK??!) and they think we are all out just for their money and don't give a shit about them at all - in other words, the fantasy is ruined; the bloom is off the rose. But they want to believe anyway, and they want to see a naked woman up close, so they come in despite themselves. This means they come in with a serious chip on their shoudler, and if a dancer enforces the stereotype they've come to believe in any way, whether or not the dancer is aware of doing so, they get really pissed off. I think what I am trying to say is that some of these men are searching for intimacy in the really, really wrong way -not that this didn't occur before, but it speaks to the degeneration of the entertainment aspect of exotic dancing/stripping and the rise of the grind and sex/extras.

    Again, the blame ultimately lies with the owners, managers and bouncers that have allowed this slide into the lowest common denominator kind of performance. The key to a good dance is to give a sense of intimacy without being actually intimate. And when certain customers believe they have a right to a dancer being intimate with them and don't get it, they get violent. I am not saying that the men can't control themselves, nor am I saying that it's going to happen with a majority of custies, but I can see how the loosening of the standards in gentleman's clubs has trained the general customer base to expect contact and sexual intimacy, and this is the inevitable result.

    You have to actually like men in general to do this job well. Men sense if you don't want to be there or think they are beneath you. A dance is supposed to be a mutually pleasing experience: he's having a good time, and you are enjoying giving him a good time and his obvious appreciation of you.

    Please don't think I am in any way defending a man who cannot control himself so much that he becomes physical with a woman. It's utter bullshit if he is that out of control and feels he has a right to any part of a dancer. It's just that I can understand how there is a rise in this kind of behavior and am attempting to explain it. I also think that it should be a HUGE red flag to the industry about the direction we are headed and the one we are going to have to take to ensure saftey and the survival of our business in a profitable way.

    Sorry about the rambling.
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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    ^^^agree

    well said.

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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    ^^^ Previous posters have hit on a number of valid points ...

    - in a bad economy, clubowners and bouncers are reluctant to expel any customer because they badly need (their cut of) every customer's money

    - in a bad economy, customer contact expectations are higher

    however, a portion of this phenomenon is in fact a 'self-inflicted wound' ...

    - an increasing number of dancers are ready and willing to provide very high levels of contact and perform outright sex acts, making it difficult for customers to accept 'no' for an answer from a different dancer in the same club. This makes it very difficult for clubowners and bouncers to attempt to enforce one set of rules for 'clean' dancers and a different set of de-facto rules for 'dirty' dancers.

    - a significant number of dancers are still attempting to 'promise' more than they are actually willing to deliver in order to make a 'sale' ... which directly increases customer 'frustration' levels.

    - high profile publicity re the Duke Rape Case and several other cases has harmed the credibility of all 'strippers' in the minds of police / judges / juries. As a result, some customers have reached the conclusion that any 'he said - she said' situation will now probably resolved in the customer's favor. Thus customers are now willing to tale 'risks' with dancers that they would probably have been afraid to try a couple of years ago.


    As LilDreamer has already expressed with eloquence, the 'old' business model of exotic dancing being 'show business' , of private dances involving the sale of a 'fantasy' etc. is now essentially dead in the minds of many clubowners and club customers. Clubowners now expect the money without caring too much how it is being generated. Customers now expect their 'money's worth' from every dancer. As such, as painful as it may be to face up to the facts, dancers who continue to try and adhere to the 'old' business model face an increasing uphill battle with both customers and clubowners. Obviously it is dead wrong when conflict over the 'old' versus 'new' business model prompts a customer to become violent. But from the customer's viewpoint, and particularly the case if the customer is drunk / high, in their own minds at least there is probably some amount of justification i.e. they have been 'ripped off' by a dancer who failed to 'deliver'.

    Right or wrong, this represents a very real risk for dancers who continue to try and adhere to the 'old' business model ... and a risk that is likely to continue to get worse and worse as more and more dancers shift to, and more and more clubowners tolerate / encourage, the 'new' business model. The exotic dancing business has arguably already reached the point where a majority of dancers are working under the 'new' business model in most clubs ... thus there is no 'turning back' !
    -
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-22-2009 at 12:36 AM.

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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post

    however, a portion of this phenomenon is in fact a 'self-inflicted wound' ...

    - an increasing number of dancers are ready and willing to provide very high levels of contact and perform outright sex acts, making it difficult for customers to accept 'no' for an answer from a different dancer in the same club. This makes it very difficult for clubowners and bouncers to attempt to enforce one set of rules for 'clean' dancers and a different set of de-facto rules for 'dirty' dancers.
    Okay, I'm not sure if I can go with you on this or not; to be honest I'm going to have to think about that for awhile. I can see what you are saying,but I still believe that if Owners>Managers>Bouncers had held the line strong about what would be tolerated and what would not be, that things would not have gotten as out of control. But I'm willing to consider other reasoning on the subject. It's one of those 'chicken/egg' situations possibly. I just really think greed clounded their judgement so they could not see the far-reaching consequences of their actions - to the complete detriment of the business. Seems to be an epidemic these days, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    - a significant number of dancers are still attempting to 'promise' more than they are actually willing to deliver in order to make a 'sale' ... which directly increases customer 'frustration' levels.
    Yep, can't argue with that at all. I happen to be one of those 'too honest' bitches and my money does suffer because of it..but I can look at myself in the mirror. It's a trade-off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    - high profile publicity re the Duke Rape Case and several other cases has harmed the credibility of all 'strippers' in the minds of police / judges / juries. As a result, some customers have reached the conclusion that any 'he said - she said' situation will now probably resolved in the customer's favor. Thus customers are now willing to tale 'risks' with dancers that they would probably have been afraid to try a couple of years ago.
    Didn't even think of that (and I live in the same state! Duh!!). Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Right or wrong, this represents a very real risk for dancers who continue to try and adhere to the 'old' business model ... and a risk that is likely to continue to get worse and worse as more and more dancers shift to, and more and more clubowners tolerate / encourage, the 'new' business model. The exotic dancing business has arguably already reached the point where a majority of dancers are working under the 'new' business model in most clubs ... thus there is no 'turning back' !
    -
    Again, I don't know if there is any turning back or not..I think that this plays into the bigger picture of the business getting on the rocks..too many clubs, all the new laws coming down that are threatening to seriously limit or close many clubs, etc. I believe in the future we will be seeing two types of clubs: those that border on the burlesqe model of entertainment with minimal contact, and strong contact clubs. But I think there will be a smaller amount of clubs per capita in any city or area.
    So I think there will be a place that dancers who were used to the old model could perform, but I don't know when or where that will be coming..and I believe they will be few and far between. Just a few 'super clubs'.

    Of course, just MHO as usual. Sorry if this seems to have gotten the thread slightly off track, but I think it's relative.
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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    It comes down to a basic fact, one that others have touched on here. If you don't pay attention, that's when you get hurt. I ended up with anal fissures (little tears in the tissue 'round the sensitive bits) one time cuz I zoned out when I was giving a dance, and the guy grabbed my ass and pulled it apart so hard that the tissue tore back there.

    I've finally gone back on a medication for my ADD, and I'm much more aware now. I understand that some of us need to drink while we work, I am the same way. In fact, I used to be really bad with my drinking, think hot mess bad. However.... I've started watching myself more, and much less problems now.

    LISTEN TO YOUR GUT. If warning bells are going off, put him on a short ass leash. You are worth more than $20, and it's not worth being thrown around or hurt. You should NEVER be afraid to get up and walk away, just grab a bouncer and let him know what's going on. He might be able to get any money that the guy owes you, and lets face it - that's the kind of thing they're there for. If the bouncer does nothing to defend you, go to management. If management doesn't do anything, find another club. You're worth more than the price of a few dances, and lets face it - being screwed over a bit with money is waaaaaaaay better than getting hurt.

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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    Quote Originally Posted by XAnastasiaX View Post
    It has come to my attention that recently some customers have been getting rather violent with the dancers at numerous clubs around the U.S. I am wondering even though we have alot of security in clubs who are often doing there jobs if anyone has an further advice. I have seen a growing number of stragling cases ( had a customer actually take a pair of beads to my friends neck last night due to the no touching rule) and in one case a girl got her nipple bitten... OFF! Any advice ladies is appreciated.

    All I can think of is to grow some stripper eyes in the back of our heads and be ready at all times. This just needs to stop!
    That's just horrible. I actually posted last year about a series of days I went through in which almost every custie I danced for had a sort of violent agennda.

    I now carry a weapon, in my purse. Oh yeah, it's on me while giving a lap dance. If I get fired, so be it. My body being intact and my life is way more important.
    (Formerly known as 'Korina')

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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    Be safe girls. I remember an incident where I had a customer choke me until I turned purple. I too had a bad feeling about him but he put 100 in my hand and pulled me over. The club's security did nothing about it and told me " a girl of your size and stature can handle herself so unless you make a scene we leave you alone" that was the last day I worked at that club. I want to add if you feel a bad feeling about the club itself DO NOT work there!!

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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    ^^^ I've also noticed that the security in clubs is really starting to lack.

    I'm checking into dancing privately for more parties and hiring my own security people. I'm getting to the point where unless the security is in the same room and not buddy buddy with everyone, I don't feel particularly safe.
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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    Get in good "social capital" with your club's management, bouncers, owners, waitstaff, kitchenstaff, DJ...anyone and everyone!! Tip them well, get to know them during downtime. It may help you down the line when it comes to this kind of thing. Not always, but it doesn't hurt. My club staff has taken good care of me when custies became incorrigible, just because they knew made and had a sense of loyalty towards me.

    Not a panacea to prevent violence, but every bit helps.

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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    ^^^ That's great advice for dancers sticking to a single club. In the case of traveling dancers we sometimes can't establish those relationships as quickly, so we need to know that where we work people will do be doing their job regardless of how well they know the dancer or what she tips.
    Don't you ever sleep?
    Not at night...that's when the stars have rather better things to do. They're coming out, shining, that sort of thing.
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  27. #25
    Featured Member jasmine22's Avatar
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    Default Re: Customer Violence?:'(

    I left my last club bc it was extremely unsafe. nobody should compromise their safety for any amount of $$. Im so happy that I work in a safe secure enviroment with good management/bouncers.

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