Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34

Thread: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

  1. #1
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    236
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 17 Times in 13 Posts
    Blog Entries
    36
    My Mood
    Amused

    Default No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/...aw-174765.html

    Judge in Ohio upholds "no touch" strip club law




    The Associated Press Updated 3:21 PM Tuesday, June 23, 2009
    CLEVELAND — A federal judge has upheld Ohio's "no-touch" law for strip clubs.
    U.S. District Judge Solomon Oliver Jr. in Cleveland says the state law that bans exotic dancers from touching patrons or each other does not violate First Amendment or other constitutional rights of the business owners.
    The Buckeye Association of Club Executives, a trade group that represents cabarets and adult bookstores, sought to overturn the 2007 law, saying the ban is overly broad and could be applied to ballet dancers or other mainstream theatrical performers.
    Oliver disagreed in his ruling Monday.
    There was no immediate response from a lawyer who represented the adult businesses in the lawsuit.
    ___
    Information from: Akron Beacon Journal, http://www.ohio.com
    ___
    June 23, 2009 - 2:17 p.m. EST
    Copyright 2009, The Associated Press.
    My Blog:

  2. #2
    Banned
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    With the luggage NJ
    Posts
    2,995
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 115 Times in 98 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    And this is a good thing as dancers dance and only dance. Why is touching even an issue?

  3. #3
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    ^^^ because none of the Ohio dancers or clubs can financially 'survive' if customer contact is totally banned !!! Customers are simply not willing to spend money on 'air dances' in today's economy ... period.

    because if economic 'survival' forces Ohio dancers to illegally provide some degree of contact in violation of the law, if busted the law effectively makes no distinction in severity / penalty between a dancer brushing a customer's arm or giving the customer a HJ / BJ.

    Put another way, the law creates a 'moral hazard' whereby dancers busted for outright acts of prostitution are not subjected to legal consequences that are any more severe than other dancers being busted for touching a customer's arm or leg. Even more ironic, dancers busted for touching a customer's arm or leg are not likely to have earnings levels that allow for effective private legal counsel / court representation, whereas dancers busted for prostitution can probably afford the best attorney available. This will translate into a much lower conviction rate for dancers performing acts of prostitution and a much higher conviction rate for dancers merely trying to 'survive' economically.

  4. #4
    Banned
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    With the luggage NJ
    Posts
    2,995
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 115 Times in 98 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    Feminists and bible thumpers make strange bedfellows.

    Ohios's new statewide strip club laws ban lap dancing and will jail any patron or dancer who physically come in contact with one another.

    A touch would be a fourth-degree misdemeanor punishable by up to 30 days in jail and a $250 fine. If the touch involves a "specified anatomical area'' - defined as the genitals, pubic region, or female breast - the crime would escalate to a first-degree misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine. The law also requires strip clubs and other "sexually oriented businesses'' to close between midnight and 6 A.M. Regular dance clubs may remain opend until 2 A.M. Citizens for Community Values, a Cincinnati organization, pressured the state to enact the law which could spread to other states. Ohio's new strip club regulations are almost identical to those enacted last year by Prince George's County Maryland as a result of feminist political pressure. The feminist sponsored law, however, was overthrown in the summer of 2007.

    Citizens for Community Values claims the laws are needed to protect community values and decrease crime.

  5. #5
    God/dess Athenathefabulous's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Istanbul, Turkey
    Posts
    3,724
    Thanks
    1,381
    Thanked 2,975 Times in 1,158 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    fortunately this law is not enforced in all parts of ohio. It is left up to the local police to enforce it, so different towns enforce this to varying degrees.

    Where i work its not enforced at all. However, Brookpark ohio has a whole section of undercover cops that frequent the tittie bars to make sure there is no contact and that girls wear latex over their nipples. Basically they are the nipple police. A large portion of girls i know who worked there wound up with fines. They are also very unforgiving; one time an undercover gave a girl a ticket when she was giving him an airdance and tripped and grabbed his shoulder to stop his fall.

    I agree that this does seem to promote prostitution. If a girl has no moral qualms about prostitution and realizes that she will get almost identical penalties for shaking a hand and sucking dick for money, then there goes one other incentive to keep extras out of clubs. Why penalize the clean dancers? Its obnoxious that i have to worry about this... Im just trying to make my money to get through college. And if i end up with a stupid mark saying im a hooker on my record, it might hurt my chances of getting a 9-5 job later in life. Way to promote unemployment. Also, in this economy, I dont think we should be trying to put anyone out of jobs. How about ohios government spend money on trying to fix the very abundant problems that are here already? Like the excessive violent crime and the overwhelming poverty....

    Also, in cases where this is enforced, im pretty sure only the dancers get in trouble, even though the law says the patron and dancer are at fault.

    How the hell this is supposed to prevent violent crime? I dont know. I wish these people would listen to themselves sometimes and realize how retarded they sound...

  6. #6
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    even though the law says the patron and dancer are at fault.
    If this is true it will certainly make a lot of strip club customers think twice about continuing to patronize the clubs ... considering that if a dancer slips and rebalances herself on the customer that the customer's name and bust will appear in local news media !!!!

    If the touch involves a "specified anatomical area'' - defined as the genitals, pubic region, or female breast - the crime would escalate to a first-degree misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine.
    identical to a prostitution bust !!!

  7. #7
    Banned
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    With the luggage NJ
    Posts
    2,995
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 115 Times in 98 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenathefabulous View Post
    fortunately this law is not enforced in all parts of ohio.
    New Jersey has an Alcohol Beverage Control rule that states no tips are to be placed in a dancer's costume that is universally ignored.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    With the luggage NJ
    Posts
    2,995
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 115 Times in 98 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post



    identical to a prostitution bust !!!
    A touch to a non sexual part would be a fourth-degree misdemeanor punishable by up to 30 days in jail and a $250 fine. Not prostitution.

    A touch for money involving the genitals, pubic region, or female breast could be prosecuted for prostitution in most states. If no money is involved there can be no prostitution even in Ohio but the no touch law would apply.

  9. #9
    God/dess Athenathefabulous's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Istanbul, Turkey
    Posts
    3,724
    Thanks
    1,381
    Thanked 2,975 Times in 1,158 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    If this is true it will certainly make a lot of strip club customers think twice about continuing to patronize the clubs ... considering that if a dancer slips and rebalances herself on the customer that the customer's name and bust will appear in local news media !!!!


    Yep, i guess its a good thing that only the dancers get in trouble, though i would rather see nobody get in trouble for something this silly. However, i would think its whoever does the touching... i.e. if a dancer rubs her breasts in a customers face its her fault, if a customer grabs a dancers ass its his fault, and if the customer and dancer shake hands that would be both of their fault. Then again i might be wrong... i remember when i read the exact law it was phrased very vaguely. It was actually unclear from the law whether contact while the dancer was wearing clothing is allowed, which is why it was left up to the local police departments to interpret and enforce the law.

    The dancer falling on the customer is rare... and the customer was an undercover. Brookpark is just exceptionally strict about the law. most local police departments dont give a shit about this stupid law and dont waste time and money enforcing it. that and some of the clubs are in good with the police im sure.

  10. #10
    God/dess Athenathefabulous's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Istanbul, Turkey
    Posts
    3,724
    Thanks
    1,381
    Thanked 2,975 Times in 1,158 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    after much searching... i found the law. it amazes me how hard it is to find a written law available to the public. i couldnt even find it on ohios site, i found it on another site that as far as i know is credible: http://www.smartvoter.org/2007/11/06/oh/state/issue/1/


    Shall Substitute Senate Bill No. 16, be approved? (Please vote "Yes" if you are in favor of the bill. Please vote "No" if you are not in favor of the bill. The bill is explained below.)

    Substitute Senate Bill No. 16 would make certain changes to state law that regulates the operation of sexually oriented businesses and adult entertainment establishments. These changes include:

    Requiring the State of Ohio to compensate local governments (townships, cities and villages) who enforce local laws regulating adult entertainment establishments when those local laws have been adopted with the guidance of the Ohio Attorney General and when those laws are found unconstitutional or invalid by a court, with certain exceptions for payment of such compensation,

    Preempting local laws that are found by a court to be in conflict with the proposed state law regulating adult entertainment establishments,

    Prohibiting sexually oriented businesses from being open for business between midnight and 6 a.m., except that sexually oriented businesses with a liquor permit may remain open until the hours specified in the permit if they do not conduct, offer, or allow, sexually oriented entertainment activity in which the performers appear nude,

    Prohibiting customers and employees of sexually oriented businesses who are not immediate family members from touching each other while on the premises of that business and while the employee is nude or seminude, and

    Creating misdemeanor criminal offenses relating to hours of operation and for customers and employees who violate the no touch provisions of the law, setting the penalty at a fourth degree misdemeanor, except when the touching is in specified anatomical areas, in which case, the penalty is a first degree misdemeanor.

    If Substitute Senate Bill No. 16 is approved, it shall become law.

    PASSAGE OF THIS LAW REQUIRES A MAJORITY VOTE OF YES. SHALL THE LAW BE APPROVED?

    YES (To approve the law)

    NO (To reject the law)

  11. #11
    Banned
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    With the luggage NJ
    Posts
    2,995
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 115 Times in 98 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    That is not the letter of the law but the referendum that was put before the voters. So the people of Ohio approved this law.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member NREXM's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2009
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    328
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 147 Times in 82 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    Well I know now to stay away from Ohio. It's the same kind of deal that they are trying to enforce in Washington state. You honestly believe that girls can make bank from a complete no-touching dance? What guy would be willing to pay $20-$30 for three minutes of a non contact air dance? If anyone doesn't see how this drastically effects their income then they must have not been making much to begin with.

    I think no contact rules should apply to obvious prostitution initiatives such as touching genitals. Arms and legs are non sexual zones therefore should NOT be punishable. It doesn't protect the dancers--it makes everyone miserable.

  13. #13
    Featured Member WiseGuy_TX's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston,Tx
    Posts
    1,522
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 136 Times in 79 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    ...if "no touch" dancing is the only game in town then customers will still come. They may want more but having "no touch" to see is better than seeing nothing. I agree the volume of customers/money may be less. In the long run, it merely gives more reasons for the city/cops to slap a legal infraction fine on someone or close down a club. It does nothing to stop touching or change morals or prevent STD's or increase surrounding property values or decrease crime. Random visits by undercover vice, sensationalizing their arrests on the local TV news station, stroking the Politicians so to keep more tax money allocated to their department for staff increases and raises, ...does nothing. However, if G_R was to put his shiny cop uniform on and randomly visit the club a few times a week and waltz around for a minute then leave, that would create such paranoia that the club would police them selves better.

    They can pass all the speeding laws they want but you will still speed down the road. But if you think there is a visible cop with a radar around then you are going to slow down more often.
    "Peter, did you take Stewie to a strip-club? He smells like sweat and fear." - Lois and Stewie (Family Guy) ... "Through early morning fog I see, Visions of the things to be, The pains that are withheld for me, I realize and I can see..."

  14. #14
    God/dess FBR's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2003
    Posts
    8,351
    Thanks
    85
    Thanked 342 Times in 244 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Mellow

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    Political claptrap. Touching is alive and well.

    FBR
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

  15. #15
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    if "no touch" dancing is the only game in town then customers will still come. They may want more but having "no touch" to see is better than seeing nothing.
    In areas that have actually enforced no-touch laws, fewer customers come into the clubs. However a much more important aspect from the dancers' standpoint is if the customers can 'see but not touch' stageside for a couple of dollars worth of tips, they are far less likely to also 'see but not touch' in a private dance area at a $20 per dance price tag ! Thus in areas where no touch laws are enforced, dancers and clubowners who actually obey the law wind up 'starving to death'.

    What usually winds up happening in areas that have actually enforced no-touch laws is that clubowners, customers and dancers all realize that dancers need to 'break the law' in order to survive financially. They also realize that the legal risk of a dancer giving a 'standard' contact lap dance is exactly the same as the dancer giving a HJ or BJ, and that the de-facto legal risk to clubowners or customers if dancers do give HJ's and BJ's is essentially zero . Thus in areas where no touch laws are actually enforced, the clubs actually wind up being 'dirtier' than before the no touch law was passed. Busts are occasionally made. Comparatively 'clean' dancers are found guilty, while dancers doing HJ's and BJ's are often acquitted ( thanks to being able to afford their own attorney rather than using the club's attorney). Clubowners are acquitted ( thanks to the club's attorney delivering 'clean' dancer plea bargains to the DA in exchange for dropping charges against the clubowner). Customers are never charged to begin with, since doing so might open a potential Pandora's Box of backlash (i.e. the busted customer was probably a political contributor / local businessman / related to the local chief of police etc.). The DA and politicians get their news story. The court system gets its fine money. Club business resumes as usual !

  16. #16
    Banned
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    With the luggage NJ
    Posts
    2,995
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 115 Times in 98 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    They also realize that the legal risk of a dancer giving a 'standard' contact lap dance is exactly the same as the dancer giving a HJ or BJ, and that the de-facto legal risk to clubowners or customers if dancers do give HJ's and BJ's is essentially zero .
    I haven't found the letter of the law but I ass/u/me that the charge would be touching and not prostitution as prostitution is much harder to prove with a specific amount of money having to be offered for a specific sex act. A touch is just a touch and can be seen across the room.

    Don't the dancers have to be nude or semi nude for the no touch law to be in effect? In New Jersey if alcohol is served dancers must be in a bikini. I find that there is much more touching in bikini clubs as opposed to the nude clubs even though in nude clubs the dancers put on bikinis for a private dance.

  17. #17
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    I haven't found the letter of the law but I ass/u/me that the charge would be touching and not prostitution as prostitution is much harder to prove with a specific amount of money having to be offered for a specific sex act. A touch is just a touch and can be seen across the room.
    Again this is the basic point ... that a dancer can much more easily be busted for 'brushing up against' breasts / laps, but that the legal penalty and fine for 'brushing up against' a customer are essentially of the same severity as being busted for giving a HJ or BJ ! Or put another way, under these circumstances, dancers have nothing additional to lose and a whole lot to gain (financially speaking) from giving HJ's and BJ's !!!!

  18. #18
    Banned
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    With the luggage NJ
    Posts
    2,995
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 115 Times in 98 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Or put another way, under these circumstances, dancers have nothing additional to lose and a whole lot to gain (financially speaking) from giving HJ's and BJ's !!!!
    The difference is the record will show prostitution; that may or may not matter to some.

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Christyismyalias's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    641
    Thanks
    367
    Thanked 218 Times in 124 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    Quote Originally Posted by NREXM View Post
    Well I know now to stay away from Ohio. It's the same kind of deal that they are trying to enforce in Washington state. You honestly believe that girls can make bank from a complete no-touching dance? What guy would be willing to pay $20-$30 for three minutes of a non contact air dance? If anyone doesn't see how this drastically effects their income then they must have not been making much to begin with.

    I think no contact rules should apply to obvious prostitution initiatives such as touching genitals. Arms and legs are non sexual zones therefore should NOT be punishable. It doesn't protect the dancers--it makes everyone miserable.

    I disagree with this 100%. My club is no contact and we all make money. Even in competition with other clubs in the area that do have grinding/touching our club is always full and people always spend money.
    I think no touch rules are great and should be the standard in SC. Just as Earl said "And this is a good thing as dancers dance and only dance. Why is touching even an issue?"

    The more that is allowed, the more is expected and it makes it harder for everyone.
    Last edited by Christyismyalias; 10-16-2009 at 03:37 AM.

  20. #20
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    ^^^ I've been in lots of Atlanta area clubs, and yes there are a handful that are 'no touch'. However, there are also many other clubs that allow a LOT of touching. There are many fundamental differences compared to a state-wide 'no-touch' situation ...

    - There will always be some percentage of customers who are willing to spend money on top shelf 'no touch' entertainment. But this small segment of customers cannot finance an area's entire strip club industry. In a large city without a 'no touch' law, these customers can be funneled to a handful of clubs, while the majority of customers can find what they're looking for in other clubs.

    - Atlanta in particular has a customer base consisting of a large segment of out-of-town businessmen, who utilize strip clubs for promoting business deals to clients. In that sort of situation, low / no contact is 'safe' for the businessman as an initial offering. If his client indicates that he is interested in higher contact, the businessman can certainly arrange that as a second step. But if his client indicates that contact makes him uncomfortable / offends him, then no harm has been done.



    -

  21. #21
    Banned
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    With the luggage NJ
    Posts
    2,995
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 115 Times in 98 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    There will always be some percentage of customers who are willing to spend money on top shelf 'no touch' entertainment. But this small segment of customers cannot finance an area's entire strip club industry.
    In New Jersey there are 100% no extra clubs but non sexual touching is permitted. These clubs have dancers 18 to 24 years old all 8's and above no tattoos Stepford Wives types.

    My kind of club out numbers them 20 to 1.

  22. #22
    God/dess verfolgung's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    2,143
    Thanks
    48
    Thanked 259 Times in 191 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenathefabulous View Post
    ... Prohibiting customers and employees of sexually oriented businesses who are not immediate family members from touching each other while on the premises of that business and while the employee is nude or seminude, and ...

    Officer: "Miss, you are under arrest for touching that customer."

    Dancer: "Oh but officer, he's my brother."

    Officer: "Oh, okay then. Carry on."

    Customer: "Right on! Incest is best, if you can't keep in your pants, keep it in the family!"

    If you can't win. Make the fellow in front of you break the record.


  23. #23
    God/dess Athenathefabulous's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Istanbul, Turkey
    Posts
    3,724
    Thanks
    1,381
    Thanked 2,975 Times in 1,158 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    yea im a little disturbed by that section of the law too.... go ohio!

    As for the no contact should be universal... I think light contact should. But busting people for shaking hands is ridiculous. You are allowed to shake hands in a business meeting... it should be no different at the SC. Physical contact can very much be intertwined with body language. Perhaps grinding on a guys dick isnt, but I feel like a light touch on the cheek is very much part of my entertainment routine. Getting arrested for that is fucking stupid.
    The best thing i have heard in a strip club to date:
    customer: we should get married right now! we should get a shotgun marriage!
    me: uhh... i think you are misunderstanding what a shotgun marriage means. A shotgun marriage means you knock me up and my daddy shows up at your door with a gun and forces you to marry me and raise the baby. You mean elope.
    customer: hmm... nah actually i will take the shotgun marriage. At least then we would be having sex.


  24. #24
    Featured Member Otoki's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2008
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    1,743
    Thanks
    227
    Thanked 224 Times in 136 Posts

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenathefabulous View Post
    yea im a little disturbed by that section of the law too.... go ohio!

    As for the no contact should be universal... I think light contact should. But busting people for shaking hands is ridiculous. You are allowed to shake hands in a business meeting... it should be no different at the SC. Physical contact can very much be intertwined with body language. Perhaps grinding on a guys dick isnt, but I feel like a light touch on the cheek is very much part of my entertainment routine. Getting arrested for that is fucking stupid.
    Agreed. I love love love light contact. I think no-contact would be sort of awkward, like you may as well just be on stage. I also like not grinding. Light contact is still sexy and intimate.

  25. #25
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: No Touch Law in Ohio Upheld

    ^^^ perhaps more importantly, no-contact is simply insufficient to motivate enough customers to spend enough money to keep a no-contact club business model economically viable.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. prop 52 ohio law
    By jasmine22 in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-15-2010, 08:44 PM
  2. ohio law....being enforced?
    By jasmine22 in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-13-2009, 02:41 AM
  3. Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-13-2008, 05:31 PM
  4. Ohio Law.
    By MojoRisin22 in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 08-20-2007, 06:16 AM
  5. 6 foot law in ohio?
    By Dazied666 in forum Club Chat
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-08-2007, 07:35 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •