Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Independent Contractor/Employee

  1. #1
    Featured Member keira0304's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,362
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 32 Times in 14 Posts

    Default Independent Contractor/Employee

    I am interested in staging a rebellion and unionizing my club. I am researching right now, I remember when I was hired at Larry Flynt's Hustler Club they gave me an option of being an independent contractor or an employee with an hourly wage- I chose independent contractor. I forgot the stipulations of the employee contract- does anyone have a copy of this? Has anyone opted for the employee status at Larry Flynt's?

    has anyone ever been in a stripper union?

    What are your thoughts on unionizing?
    "Life and death, energy and peace. If I stop today it was still worth it. Even the terrible mistakes that I made and would have unmade if I could. The pains that have burned me and scarred my soul, it was worth it, for having been allowed to walk where I've walked, which was to hell on earth, heaven on earth, back again, into, under, far in between, through it, in it, and above."

    [/URL]

  2. #2
    Featured Member saphire123456's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Philly/AC/Vegas...
    Posts
    1,507
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 129 Times in 80 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    what? i thought you "retired"
    These days I like to count my money. I like to wash it delicately and iron it. Sometimes I dry it with some bounty to make it all nice and cuddly. I love my money... did I say that out loud?

  3. #3
    Featured Member keira0304's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,362
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 32 Times in 14 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    I did. for a month, then I came back.
    "Life and death, energy and peace. If I stop today it was still worth it. Even the terrible mistakes that I made and would have unmade if I could. The pains that have burned me and scarred my soul, it was worth it, for having been allowed to walk where I've walked, which was to hell on earth, heaven on earth, back again, into, under, far in between, through it, in it, and above."

    [/URL]

  4. #4
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Lincoln England
    Posts
    230
    Thanks
    74
    Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    ^^^

    ok, im no sure thats what retiring means!

    seen so many girls slag off dancing/list all the things they don't like and say they're stopping only to show up a few weeks later! very annoying!

  5. #5
    Featured Member keira0304's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,362
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 32 Times in 14 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    This is not a discussion of retiring. Please stay on topic.

    I am asking a question- has anyone else encountered a club that offers an employment option as well as an independent contractor option when you're hired.

    As I recall, Larry Flynt's hustler club did, but I forgot the exact stipulations of the employment agreement.
    "Life and death, energy and peace. If I stop today it was still worth it. Even the terrible mistakes that I made and would have unmade if I could. The pains that have burned me and scarred my soul, it was worth it, for having been allowed to walk where I've walked, which was to hell on earth, heaven on earth, back again, into, under, far in between, through it, in it, and above."

    [/URL]

  6. #6
    God/dess Gia2608's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Miami/ Ft. Lauderdale
    Posts
    3,337
    Thanks
    4,235
    Thanked 3,664 Times in 1,451 Posts
    My Mood
    Cheerful

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    Ha ha. Meow!
    I did work at a club here that pays the girls (only whatever waitress's earn which is about $4.16 to the best of my knowledge). So that they can have proof of income and prepare taxes. I didn't work there for more than a few days so I don't have too much to offer but it's called the Pink Pony if you wanted to research.

    There is a club in WPB "Dreamgirls" that supposedly pays dancer's shiftpay and health insurance but again I don't know, just trying to point you in the right direction as best I can!
    XoXo Gia
    Danielle Fishell (the Dish): "If the Super-Star thing doesn't work out, Gia makes a great stripper name"

  7. #7
    God/dess Elvia's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,636
    Thanks
    495
    Thanked 744 Times in 433 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    Quote Originally Posted by cashing in View Post
    ^^^

    ok, im no sure thats what retiring means!

    seen so many girls slag off dancing/list all the things they don't like and say they're stopping only to show up a few weeks later! very annoying!
    Why should this annoy you? Lots of people end up coming back from retirement, especially in this economy. The flexibility of the work is one of it's major appeals. Why should other people's career decisions affect you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    As Katherine Hepburn put it so eloquently " Nature is what we were put here to rise above"

  8. #8
    Featured Member saphire123456's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Philly/AC/Vegas...
    Posts
    1,507
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 129 Times in 80 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    ^ yes, but thats not called "retirement" but "taking time off". i just find it amusing when girls go through a major huff and say they are retiring forever just to be up there shaking their ass not even a month later
    These days I like to count my money. I like to wash it delicately and iron it. Sometimes I dry it with some bounty to make it all nice and cuddly. I love my money... did I say that out loud?

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to saphire123456 For This Useful Post:


  10. #9
    Featured Member keira0304's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,362
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 32 Times in 14 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    ^well it must be nice to never get so sick of your job you declare you're through with it with emotion.

    BACK ON TOPIC:

    Mitchell Brother's O'Farrell theatre and lusty lady in san francisco are both unionized, but from what I've been reading, it takes up to a year to sue your club for back wages and declare your employee status before you can even begin unionizing and organizing and all that.
    "Life and death, energy and peace. If I stop today it was still worth it. Even the terrible mistakes that I made and would have unmade if I could. The pains that have burned me and scarred my soul, it was worth it, for having been allowed to walk where I've walked, which was to hell on earth, heaven on earth, back again, into, under, far in between, through it, in it, and above."

    [/URL]

  11. #10
    God/dess Elvia's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,636
    Thanks
    495
    Thanked 744 Times in 433 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    ^^^ What's wrong with that? A year isn't really that long in the grand scheme of things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    As Katherine Hepburn put it so eloquently " Nature is what we were put here to rise above"

  12. #11
    God/dess Elvia's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,636
    Thanks
    495
    Thanked 744 Times in 433 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    Quote Originally Posted by saphire123456 View Post
    ^ yes, but thats not called "retirement" but "taking time off". i just find it amusing when girls go through a major huff and say they are retiring forever just to be up there shaking their ass not even a month later
    Sometimes our plans don't work out as well as we'd hoped. There's no reason to throw it in someone's face. Getting out of the sex industry isn't always easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    As Katherine Hepburn put it so eloquently " Nature is what we were put here to rise above"

  13. #12
    God/dess
    Joined
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Your imagination
    Posts
    2,875
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 174 Times in 119 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    Many MBOT strippers were really really really angry the ladies who sued MBOT, because the legal stuff is what led directly to the insane housefees (they'd started housefees when the girls who sued did so, but they were very minimal).

    the lusty lady had ladies taking multiple paycuts to stay in business.

    the MBOT thing led to some cash for the women who sued, but no changes for the remaining girls who stayed (except much much much higher housefees).

    that is pretty much how it works with stripping and unions-- some money for the girls who bring suit regarding employee status (and quit working there entirely) and worse conditions for the remaining girls, or some broken model of profit-sharing where everyone makes less and less over time.

  14. #13
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Lincoln England
    Posts
    230
    Thanks
    74
    Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvia View Post
    Why should this annoy you? Lots of people end up coming back from retirement, especially in this economy. The flexibility of the work is one of it's major appeals. Why should other people's career decisions affect you?

    i just think these girls have no dignity, slagging off clubs and dancing only to come crawling back as though nothing happened.

    especialy when they say such lowly things like 'its begging i'm out of this shithole' and then they're back as though they didn't make any rude comments about dancing!

    if dancers think they might be back within the month they should keep quiet so as not to make themselves look stupid!

    and at no point did i say other dancers career decissions effect me!

  15. #14
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Lincoln England
    Posts
    230
    Thanks
    74
    Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    Quote Originally Posted by saphire123456 View Post
    ^ yes, but thats not called "retirement" but "taking time off". i just find it amusing when girls go through a major huff and say they are retiring forever just to be up there shaking their ass not even a month later
    i usualy have a month long holiday with my husband every year, i don't tell everyoe i'm retiring whilst knowing i'll almost definately be back after the month!

  16. #15
    Member
    Joined
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    67
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    Quote Originally Posted by keira0304 View Post

    I am asking a question- has anyone else encountered a club that offers an employment option as well as an independent contractor option when you're hired.

    As I recall, Larry Flynt's hustler club did, but I forgot the exact stipulations of the employment agreement.
    Do you remember any of the details? How much did they pay per hour? How much of your LD/VIP money did you get to keep if you were on employee status? Or did they take most or all of your LD money in exchange for you not having to pay house fees?

    I'm intrigued...I worked there as a waitress so obviously I was an employee, but had no idea they offered that option to the dancers. Anyone else who's danced there have any details?

  17. #16
    Featured Member keira0304's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,362
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 32 Times in 14 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    That's what I'm asking for- details. I know there was an hourly wage but i can't remember if the club took everything you made or a percentage. I also can't remember if there was a minimum number of dances you had to sell... i wish someone knew.
    "Life and death, energy and peace. If I stop today it was still worth it. Even the terrible mistakes that I made and would have unmade if I could. The pains that have burned me and scarred my soul, it was worth it, for having been allowed to walk where I've walked, which was to hell on earth, heaven on earth, back again, into, under, far in between, through it, in it, and above."

    [/URL]

  18. #17
    Member
    Joined
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    67
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    Quote Originally Posted by keira0304 View Post
    That's what I'm asking for- details. I know there was an hourly wage but i can't remember if the club took everything you made or a percentage. I also can't remember if there was a minimum number of dances you had to sell... i wish someone knew.
    I wonder if Glamazon's still on here...I know she worked there for a long time...

  19. #18
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    I know there was an hourly wage but i can't remember if the club took everything you made or a percentage. I also can't remember if there was a minimum number of dances you had to sell... i wish someone knew.
    I have experience with a handful of clubs which, due to lawsuits or IRS settlements or whatever, have been 'forced' to treat dancers as employees. Distilling down the basics goes like this ...

    Dancers are treated as 'tipped minimum wage' workers. This means receiving a 'base pay' from the club that amounts to something like $3 an hour for every hour of every scheduled shift.

    By the letter of the law, 100% of dancer tip earnings, as well as 100% of 'other' dancer earnings, are supposed to be turned over to the club - to be run through the club's payroll system. The club's payroll system is required to report total dancer earnings ( sum of tips + 'other' + base pay), and to withhold estimated income taxes on behalf of the employee dancer which are sent in to the IRS. If the state has an income tax, the club's payroll system must also withhold state estimated income taxes.

    Every state has an unemployment insurance fund and a workmen's compensation fund which provides benefits to 'employees' ... including employee dancers. While it is illegal for the club to directly charge dancers for this insurance coverage ( which may add up to 15% of gross employee earnings), the club is nonetheless required to pay these insurance premiums to the state out of its own 'employer' pocket.
    '
    Social Security and medicare tax are also withheld by the clubs payroll system with estimated tax payments sent to the IRS. This consists of two parts ... a 7.5% tax on the 'employee' dancer's total earnings, plus another 7.5% tax which must come out of the clubs own 'employer' pocket.

    Additionally, if the dancer works more than 24 hours per week, the club as the 'employer' is required to provide certain minimum benefits for 'full time' workers. These vary from state to state, and typically involve some amount of paid vacation etc. The cost of these 'full time' worker benefits also must come out of the club's own 'employer' pocket.

    Because an 'employer' clubowner is now subject to paying a $3 per hour 'tipped' minimum wage to every dancer, is now subject to paying the costs of the 'employer's share' of Social Security and medicare taxes, is now subject to paying the entire cost of unemployment and workmen's comp insurance premiums, and because the club incurrs additional expenses for processing 'employee' payroll, handling estimated tax payment money, and perhaps having to pay for mandatory 'full time' worker benefit costs, the club has a much higher level of 'expenses' to cover.

    By law an 'employer' clubowner cannot charge 'employee' dancers a fee to work ... so stage fees / house fees can no longer be leveed by the club.

    However, by the same law, the work product of an 'employee' dancer now becomes the property of the club. In the extreme, this means that dancers could be required by the club to provide private dances / VIP without receiving any additional money. Since this simply will not fly in an industry where 'independent contractor' dancers down the street get to keep all or part of their private dance / VIP sales, the usual option is for the club to pay a percentage based 'sales commission' to individual dancers in the same way that 'employee' car salesmen are paid a commision for each car they sell. Typically the 'sales commission' amounts to 50% of the individual dancers' private dance / VIP sales ... which must also be run through the club's payroll system, reported as income, and have estimated taxes withheld by the club.

    While I'm not sure that this is a legal requirement, in every instance of an 'employee' dancer club that I have seen, all customer money other than stage tips is run through the club's cash register. This means that dancers wind up receiving 'tickets' for private dances / VIP which must be purchased by the customer, rather than dancers directly receiving customer money. Dancers then turn in these 'tickets' and are eventually paid their 'sales commission'. A few clubs also instituted the use of 'funny money' for customer tipping and/or private dance / VIP purchases ... which effectively routes 100% of customer money through the club's cash register, and which allows the club's payroll system to account for every single dollar paid out to 'employee' dancers.

    And while I'm sure that this is NOT a legal requirement, in every instance of an 'employee' dancer club that I have seen, dancers are strictly scheduled. Also, dancers are usually not allowed to schedule more than three shifts per week ( presumably to avoid the club's having to deal with / pay for mandatory 'full time' employee benefit costs).

    And while I'm sure that this is NOT a legal requirement either, in every instance of an 'employee' dancer club that I have seen, dancers were held to a minimum quota of private dance / VIP sales. The club's obvious purpose is to guarantee that the club's 'cut' of every dancer's private dance / VIP sales is sufficient to cover the $3 an hour minimum wage cost plus the clubowner 'employer' cost of SSI / medicare tax, workmen's comp and unemployment insurance premiums etc. If a particular dancer was not able to meet this minimum quota, the club then had legal grounds to 'fire' her for lack of employee productivity.

    As 'employers', clubs now have much stronger 'powers' to control dancer actions. "Employer' clubs can ( and usually do ) mandate that particular dancers must only work particular days and shifts, must be ready to work at time X, cannot leave before time Y, cannot work 'overtime' beyond the end of their scheduled shift, cannot work extra days etc. Clubs can ( and usually do ) mandate particular criteria for stagewear, particular types of music be danced to etc. Clubs can also mandate that 'employee' dancers participate in all sorts of 'sales promotions', from selling drinks to selling t-shirts to selling dances at 'blue light special' prices, for which the 'employee' dancer will usually not receive additional 'sales commission' payouts.


    My personal thoughts about dancers being 'employees', dancers being unionized etc. is that I would rather have the opportunity to earn far more money as an independent contractor, and would rather have the additional scheduling freedom of an independent contractor ! In the final analysis, customers are only bringing so many dollars in through the club's front door. If, as an 'employee', a significant fraction of that money must now go to paying workmen's comp and unemployment insurance premiums that I will never get to use, if a significant fraction of that money must now go to a club accountant and payroll service, this means less take home earnings for the dancer as well as the club. And if the club manages to 'recoup' its own additional expenses out of dancers' private dance / VIP sales, that means even less take home earnings for the dancer.

    I would also add that 'high earnings potential' dancers usually don't stick around very long at a club that treats dancers as 'employees'. This only makes economic sense. For example consider the case of a dancer capable of selling twenty five $20 private dances per 8 hour shift. As an 'employee', she'll get paid $24 in tipped minimum wage pay + 50% * $500 in private dances + $ 100 in tips = $374 gross ... with perhaps $120 in taxes withheld = $254 for the shift. As an indendent contractor, she will get charged - $50 in house fee, but will earn 100% * $500 + $100 in tips = $550 ... of which she will later probably have to pay $150 in taxes = $400 for the shift. So top notch dancers usually leave 'employee' clubs quickly ... and also take their upscale customers with them. In the end, 'employee' dancer clubs seem to gravitate to having a bunch of 'mediocre' dancers and a bunch of working class customers.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 06-27-2009 at 11:21 AM.

  20. #19
    Veteran Member bella du jour's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    397
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 51 Times in 30 Posts

    Default Re: Independent Contractor/Employee

    Unionizing/ demanding benefits will only cost club owners more money, which means that club owners will look to us to make up the difference. They're not gonna sacrifice their bottom line to help us out- we'll be paying for those benefits in the form of bigger club cuts (a 40% tax on funny money, 50% of lapdance money, etc). Very few club owners look at dancers as anything other than cash cows.

    I'd rather leave things as they are and pay for my own health insurance (only $250 a month for a single woman in NJ). Making sure to pay my taxes every year also means that I'm entitled to social security benefits, ie, disability and unemployment.




    All about my boobs...

Similar Threads

  1. Are you an independent contractor?
    By LilSweetVixen in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-20-2011, 10:50 PM
  2. filing taxes as employee AND independent contractor?
    By Picaresque in forum Dollar Den
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-19-2007, 10:55 PM
  3. Be An Independant Contractor or Employee?
    By exotica17 in forum Dollar Den
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 02-15-2005, 02:16 PM
  4. Are you really an independent contractor?
    By Paris in forum Dollar Den
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 02-09-2003, 05:11 PM
  5. Are you really an independent contractor?
    By Paris in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-05-2003, 08:41 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •