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Thread: Getting Ready before a Dance

  1. #126
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    Default Re: Getting Ready before a Dance

    Quote Originally Posted by xdamage View Post
    There are some dram laws that hold bar owners semi responsible for how much they serve patrons, but that is responsibility in-addition to the responsibility held by the drinker, not in-lieu of. Those dram laws are intended to allow victims of drinkers to recover damages both from the drinker and from the server, not to remove responsibility from the drinker.
    In the absence of a dramshop law the tavern owner/operator is not liable for the torts of drunken customers. A dramshop law imposes liability. The purpose of dram shop laws is to make money for plaintiffs lawyers.

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    Default Re: Getting Ready before a Dance

    Quote Originally Posted by princessjas View Post
    Earl seriously, be fucking realistic. Unless you are too damn drunk to stand up you know good and fucking well that assaulting someone is wrong. Culpability shouldn't even be brought into it. The bartenders frequently drink and I've never been assaulted by one. Same with the managers and 1000's of other men over the years. They manage to control themselves, so can everyfuckingbody else.

    Time to find your balls and take some personal responsibility.
    I sat on a jury; the trial was about a bar fight. A younger man hit an older man in the face with a table shuffleboard weight. The older man lost an eye and was suing the younger man and the bar owner.

    All twelve of us assigned 80% responsibility to the bar owner for not running an orderly house. The consensus was if one makes money selling alcohol she is held to a standard.
    So as you can see a time may come when Earl the Pearl and eleven other good people decide what the law says.

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    Default Re: Getting Ready before a Dance

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil-W View Post
    ^^^

    Eh.... Earl, why have you got a fly crawling about in your signature?

    Just curious.....

    Phil.
    I can't get it out; I think it is on the inside.

  4. #129
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    Default Re: Getting Ready before a Dance

    Quote Originally Posted by Earl_the_Pearl View Post
    I sat on a jury; the trial was about a bar fight. A younger man hit an older man in the face with a table shuffleboard weight. The older man lost an eye and was suing the younger man and the bar owner.

    All twelve of us assigned 80% responsibility to the bar owner for not running an orderly house. The consensus was if one makes money selling alcohol she is held to a standard.
    So as you can see a time may come when Earl the Pearl and eleven other good people decide what the law says.
    You are a rational person. Therefore any accused who finds you on his jury should thank his stars. Just imagine the kind of idiots who can and do make it to the jury duty on a daily basis.

  5. #130
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    Default Re: Getting Ready before a Dance

    I'm good with whatever laws our societies want in regards to bars and serving alcohol in public, but I wish people would form their opinions thinking more then one move ahead.

    Societies, economics, complex systems in general work in the ways they do because of give and take. If you want someone else to give you more of something, there is bound to be some taking too, some way in which some one else pays for it.

    btw before continuing... the bars may close and put everyone out of work too:

    http://www.setexasrecord.com/news/21...rockett-street

    Many have argued that while individually large settlement health care lawsuits have had no impact, that collectively we are all paying for them in the form of higher health care insurance. Also some specialists working with low probability procedures and high risks (e.g., child birth) increasingly are changing specialties, leaving the remainder to charge much higher fees.

    This is the way economics works. Someone receives and someone pays, even if it just means insurance companies laying people off work to cover lost profits due to paying out settlements.

    There are always gives and takes and looking ahead a move or two is not super hard. Just ask, if this becomes a trend, what are the long term possible outcomes of dram shop laws and settlements that make bar owners increasingly responsible?

    Maybe that they can't serve more then one well metered drink every hour. Want a second? Tough. Law says no, even if you are not driving, because you MIGHT act like an ass later, hurt someone, and the bar owner is 80% responsible if you do. Neato.

    Maybe we will see fewer stand-alone a bars because none can afford the risk of just serving drinks at the rate they need to serve to be profitable. A trend I've already seen, bars exist within other venues (restaurants, strip clubs, casinos) and drinks become supplemental income rather then the main source of income.

    Maybe bars start charging 2x-3x as much for a drink to pay for insurance plans to cover lawsuits?

    Maybe that more restaurants just stop serving alcohol since the risk of an expensive lawsuit isn't worth it? So those of us who drank responsibly in public find it more difficult or costly. Etc.

    We refuse to believe such patterns because we want what we want in the moment, but trends start out small and gain a life of their own for reasons. For example, should it become significantly profitable to file lawsuits against bar owners, win, for whatever mis-deeds an individual commits, you can bet that the lawyers will swoop in and do everything they can to encourage lawsuits. And you can bet should that become increasingly the trend, we will all feel some impact, including some we may end up not liking.

    Maybe the end result is positive. There is a reasonable argument that alcohol is just a recreational drug, we don't need it to survive, and it does as much harm as good. I'm fine with that, just as long as those in favor of more punishing dram shop laws don't want their cake and eat it too (i.e., if you are over drinking in public then STOP it for everyone's benefit).
    I promise not to look down on you if you can laugh at lawyer jokes. - minnow

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    Default Re: Getting Ready before a Dance

    Quote Originally Posted by xdamage View Post
    I'm good with whatever laws our societies want in regards to bars and serving alcohol in public, but I wish people would form their opinions thinking more then one move ahead.

    Societies, economics, complex systems in general work in the ways they do because of give and take. If you want someone else to give you more of something, there is bound to be some taking too, some way in which some one else pays for it.

    btw before continuing... the bars may close and put everyone out of work too:

    http://www.setexasrecord.com/news/21...rockett-street

    Many have argued that while individually large settlement health care lawsuits have had no impact, that collectively we are all paying for them in the form of higher health care insurance. Also some specialists working with low probability procedures and high risks (e.g., child birth) increasingly are changing specialties, leaving the remainder to charge much higher fees.

    This is the way economics works. Someone receives and someone pays, even if it just means insurance companies laying people off work to cover lost profits due to paying out settlements.

    There are always gives and takes and looking ahead a move or two is not super hard. Just ask, if this becomes a trend, what are the long term possible outcomes of dram shop laws and settlements that make bar owners increasingly responsible?



    Maybe bars start charging 2x-3x as much for a drink to pay for insurance plans to cover lawsuits?

    Maybe the end result is positive. There is a reasonable argument that alcohol is just a recreational drug, we don't need it to survive, and it does as much harm as good. I'm fine with that, just as long as those in favor of more punishing dram shop laws don't want their cake and eat it too (i.e., if you are over drinking in public then STOP it for everyone's benefit).
    Insurance companies don’t lay people off and they don’t loose profits. They raise their rates, and everyone pays more for everything.

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