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Thread: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Femtex23 View Post

    If people didn't have sex before marriage, I'm sure there would be a lot less un-planned pregnancies with people who are not financially or personally mature for the job of parenting (another drain on our healthcare system).
    If all people who had sex before marriage used condoms and birth control pills, there would be a lot less unplanned pregnancies. Conservatives consistently oppose education and access to both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Femtex23 View Post
    Conservatives don't tell same sex couples they can't get married...they are just stating that they don't agree with it.
    Yes they do. They've spent millions of dollars getting amendments passed in various states to prevent same sex couples from legally getting married.


    Quote Originally Posted by Femtex23 View Post

    Conservatives do not directly oppose pornography...some religious groups do. Whether they politically identify with the left or the right makes no difference.
    Yes they do. Conservative administrations have prosecuted people for adult pornography.


    Quote Originally Posted by Femtex23 View Post
    If it was true that all people on the right didn't agree with porn, they wouldn't come spend money in our clubs. I'm not saying that dancers are the equivalent of live pornography, but nonetheless, we are in the adult business...that said, I've never met a wealthy VIP member that wasn't Republican.
    Not all Republicans are conservative. Those who are, believe there are different standards for themselves and everyone else. It's okay for themselves to have sex with prostitutes or seek sex partners in public restrooms, but it's wrong for others to have any type of sex outside of marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Femtex23 View Post
    We like to keep the money we make and spend it how we choose. We don't want to be told by anyone what programs we HAVE to fund, that we have to pay for healthcare for the masses, or anything else for that matter. I don't owe some non-working bum a dime of my money to put toward his healthcare b/c he's too lazy to get a job. Nor do I need to pay for the healthcare of all the illegals flooding our borders.
    You're making stuff up to demonize people without health insurance. There are many hard-working people who are uninsured because they can't afford it or because they have pre-existing conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Femtex23 View Post

    "A CDC study released last March estimated that one in four teens in the U.S. between the ages of 14-19 is infected with at least one STD."

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/145535.php
    which is a result of not properly educating everyone how to prevent transmitting STD's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Femtex23 View Post
    The longer we sit here having silly conversations like this thinking everything is black or white, the faster our Country will fail. We have to realize that to succeed, opposition is healthy, debating is healthy, but its time to lay down party lines and work together to uphold our Constitution and kick the bums out that are working so diligently to keep us divided. They know that a united Country is a strong country. They want to keep us on our knees long enough to get things under their control. If they pass this healthcare, we will never be able to reverse it...when you are old, you will be considered a drain on the system and will be cast aside. When that happens, you will wish for the good ole' days of America and the Capitalism that made this great Nation what it is.
    If universal healthcare is bad, why wouldn't we be able to reverse it?
    Last edited by eagle2; 07-28-2009 at 11:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    As a small business owner, Bob can re-invest in his business to a sufficient degree that his personal income drops below the level of forcing him to pay a no-insurance tax penalty and allows him the subsidies toward any health insurance purchase. For instance, Bob could create a home office, and write off the square footage of his home for business purposes, deducting that amount from the overall mortgage payments. Suddenly Bob has an extra $500 a month in business expenses and $500 a month less in personal income due to the home office expansion. (figures may vary. I based the example on a 1500 sq ft home w/ a $2000 a month mortgage and an office of about 300-400 sq ft).

    The small business example is a flawed one. Small business owners can pay themselves whatever they want, and make the business pick up the slack on a lot of personal expenses, including health insurance. (Psst... dancers are small business owners)

    Keep thinking, I'm sure someone will come up with something to point at that can justify why we can never have universal coverage in the US.
    I think the real problem with universal health care is that it's not as comprehensive simply because it can not afford to be! It's a great idea, in theory, but socialism, theoretically was a good idea too, terrible in practice. First off, what about the people making over the poverty line, but only able to afford the bare bones insurance which in many cases (personally I have psoriatic arthritis and my medication costs $1200 a month, with my insurance only $30, but a bare bones universal policy would never cover this medication and render the policy useless to me as well as a large majority of my income going towards a medication I needed to continue working !).

    Universal health care simply doesn't cover much. It may be good for some people, like those already on Medicaid! But it would be devastating not just to those who opted not to do it, but to those who make only enough to afford the standard policy and not have their prescriptions covered. As it is health insurance companies are denying certain medications and requiring more and more prior authorizations for certain medications, it is incredibly sad. I work in a pharmacy and the number of people that simply do without their medication because their insurance isn't comphrensive is alarming.

    I am a full-time student so remain under a very good policy that I was eligible for since my grandfather was in the military his entire adult life, but I have thought about going to school part-time, which meant losing my insurance, so I went to a couple sites to get a quote and I was quoted around $1000 a month, and I am 23, 95 lbs, 5'4", bp is 110/65, but because of my medication I still have to pay a ridiculous amount. Universal coverage just doesn't address medication, frankly private insurance doesn't properly address it either.

    The other problem, is even if our country wasn't so entrenched in debt that it could afford decent prescription coverage for individuals, that still eliminates personal choice in medical care. Universal health care basically forces our health care needs to be dependent on the government and what they think is best, not an individualized plan that the person and their physician and pharmacist work out to be the best for their specific needs. Just one step closer to a communist mindset, not trying to cause controversy by putting that out there, but it's definately the elephant in the room.
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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    If all people who had sex before marriage used condoms and birth control pills, there would be a lot less unplanned pregnancies. Conservatives consistently oppose education and access to both.


    Yes they do. They've spent millions of dollars getting amendments passed in various states to prevent same sex couples from legally getting married.



    Yes they do. Conservative administrations have prosecuted people for adult pornography.



    Not all Republicans are conservative. Those who are, believe there are different standards for themselves and everyone else. It's okay for themselves to have sex with prostitutes or seek sex partners in public restrooms, but it's wrong for others to have any type of sex outside of marriage.


    You're making stuff up to demonize people without health insurance. There are many hard-working people who are uninsured because they can't afford it or because they have pre-existing conditions.


    which is a result of not properly educating everyone how to prevent transmitting STD's.



    If universal healthcare is bad, why wouldn't we be able to reverse it?
    I'm in substantial agreement with Eagle here. Classic "Goldwater" Conservatives have often been pushed to the sidelines by Christer Conservatives who DO want to tell other people how to live.

    They oppose gay marriage even though nobody is trying to force them to marry one. They claim that gay marriage is somehow going to affect theirs. A real head scratcher; and then there is all the infidelity among prominent conservative politicians. Obviously, some of them ought to devote MORE time to their own marriages and spend less time worrying about other people's.

    Elevating faith over facts, many conservatives oppose birth control and Sex-Ed.

    As for health insurance, illegals flooding ER's are just part of the problem. The problem is once we have National Health Care it will be difficult to revise and reform and IMPOSSIBLE to eliminate. Afaik, there has NEVER been a government benefit that was successfully taken away.

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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    We need a new poll "How many of you have health insurance"

    If you don't have health insurance, WHY THE HECK NOT? For $100 a month, you don't have to freak out if you break your leg or get pregnant or have another medical emergency.

    Every time I get a test done at the doctor, I look at the invoice from the lab. On average, any given test I get is $200, then they give me an insurance discount (discount for having insurance) of about $130, then the insurance pays everything except for $2-5. Everything is like that. Sure, I pay a couple thousand a year for insurance, but when you add up the costs from my husband, my infant (who has to go to the doctor every few months for shots and other wellness checkups), and me, we save SO much money from insurance.

    If I were someone without insurance, I would be paying $190+ more for one test.

    I'm not sure fining people for their lack of decision to get health insurance is the right way to go, but I do agree that people need to get insurance in today's medical land of red tape and high prices.

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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    If I wasn't a full-time student I wouldn't be able to afford it! I was quoted $1000/month. Due to pre-existing conditions its next to impossible for some people to get it, it's like that or shelter. That's just the insurance, that doesn't even include copays, meds, etc. But yeah, otherwise I don't know why someone would willinging forgo insurance! It's a lifesaver, well if it's decent insurance that is.
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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    If you don't have health insurance, WHY THE HECK NOT? For $100 a month, you don't have to freak out
    Actually, Americans living in most states do not have access to low cost 'bare bones' health insurance coverage. Most states mandate that health insurance coverage written in their state also cover all sorts of non bare-bones 'medical problems' such as psychiatric treatment, substance abuse treatment, treatment of pre-existing conditions etc. THIS sort of mandatory coverage vastly increases the price of health insurance coverage in these states.

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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    Don't worry, this bill will never pass. Once the politicians get an idea about how opposed the people are to this, they'll vote to save their jobs, which means stopping Obama. The notion of universal health care is crashing and burning as we speak. Why do you think the neo-Marxists were pushing so hard for a vote now?
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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    Why would we need a 4000 dollar heath insurance policy? You can get emergency only policies, or HSA policies like the one I have. I put money in My Health Savings Account and pay a low monthly premium. HSA plans are great for healthy people. You will not throw away money with this plan!

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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    ^^^ again this depends on living in a state which allows the writing of 'emergency only' health insurance policies. Most states force insurance companies to provide a large number of coverage areas besides 'emergency' treatment, with a commeasurately large difference in monthly premiums.

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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    Ok.

    Go to http://www.ehealthinsurance.com/

    I put in my basic information and got quoted $60 a month from UnitedHealthCare which isn't a fly by night company.

    Most strippers are perfectly healthy, there isn't a pre existing condition issue. That's how the thread started, saying that strippers would have higher taxes because they don't have health insurance.

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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    ^^^ First, that plan is only available in states that have not enacted 'minimum insurance coverage' laws. For example, I went to the same website, put in my data as well as my old address in New York, and got ONE quote for health insurance ... for $410 per month. Try this with your own personal information, but use a New York zip code like 10024 and choose only from plans for self-employed persons !

    The reason that insurance coverage in New York is so much more expensive is that New York has enacted all sorts of laws that place minimum requirements on insurance companies regarding what sort of treatments / diseases / benefits the insurance MUST cover, laws that force insurance companies to cover 'high risk' people for the same monthly insurance premium charged to 'low risk' people, laws that redistribute the cost of insurance premiums such that young / healthy people must subsidize older / less healthy people etc.

    Circling back to the original topic, the national health care bill is guaranteed to change the insurance that is now available to you in Texas i.e. low cost limited scope coverage insurance offered at a deep discount to a healthy young person ...



    (snip)"The federal government will impose a minimum list of benefits that each plan is required to offer. Today, many states require these "standard benefits packages" -- and they're a major cause for the rise in health-care costs. Every group, from chiropractors to alcohol-abuse counselors, do lobbying to get included. Connecticut, for example, requires reimbursement for hair transplants, hearing aids, and in vitro fertilization.

    The Senate bill would require coverage for prescription drugs, mental-health benefits, and substance-abuse services"(snip)

    (snip)"As with the previous example, the Obama plan enshrines into federal law one of the worst features of state legislation: community rating. Eleven states, ranging from New York to Oregon, have some form of community rating. In its purest form, community rating requires that all patients pay the same rates for their level of coverage regardless of their age or medical condition.

    Americans with pre-existing conditions need subsidies under any plan, but community rating is a dubious way to bring fairness to health care. The reason is twofold: First, it forces young people, who typically have lower incomes than older workers, to pay far more than their actual cost, and gives older workers, who can afford to pay more, a big discount. The state laws gouging the young are a major reason so many of them have joined the ranks of uninsured.

    Under the Senate plan, insurers would be barred from charging any more than twice as much for one patient vs. any other patient with the same coverage. So if a 20-year-old who costs just $800 a year to insure is forced to pay $2,500, a 62-year-old who costs $7,500 would pay no more than $5,000.

    Second, the bills would ban insurers from charging differing premiums based on the health of their customers. Again, that's understandable for folks with diabetes or cancer. But the bills would bar rewarding people who pursue a healthy lifestyle of exercise or a cholesterol-conscious diet. That's hardly a formula for lower costs. It's as if car insurers had to charge the same rates to safe drivers as to chronic speeders with a history of accidents."(snip)

    (snip)"The bills seriously endanger the trend toward consumer-driven care in general. By requiring minimum packages, they would prevent patients from choosing stripped-down plans that cover only major medical expenses. "The government could set extremely low deductibles that would eliminate HSAs," says John Goodman of the National Center for Policy Analysis, a free-market research group. "And they could do it after the bills are passed."(snip)

    (snip)"The outlook is worse for the second group. It encompasses employees who aren't under ERISA but get actual insurance either on their own or through small businesses. After the legislation passes, all insurers that offer a wide range of plans to these employees will be forced to offer only "qualified" plans to new customers, via the exchanges.

    The employees who got their coverage before the law goes into effect can keep their plans, but once again, there's a catch. If the plan changes in any way -- by altering co-pays, deductibles, or even switching coverage for this or that drug -- the employee must drop out and shop through the exchange. Since these plans generally change their policies every year, it's likely that millions of employees will lose their plans in 12 months."(snip)
    Last edited by Melonie; 07-30-2009 at 04:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    Melonie, you disregarded what I said about having an HSA along with a high deductable plan. I pay 144 a month and I have really good coverage.

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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    ^^^ again your high deductible coverage plan is not available in every state !!! And it may not remain available to YOU in Arizona after the first year of national health care. You might want to read the preceding post very carefully in regard to CNN's analysis of the national health care bills' 'fine print'.

    also CNN's analysis had this to say about the national health care bills' potential effect on HSA's

    (snip)"Hundreds of companies now offer Health Savings Accounts to about 5 million employees. Those workers deposit tax-free money in the accounts and get a matching contribution from their employer. They can use the funds to buy a high-deductible plan -- say for major medical costs over $12,000. Preventive care is reimbursed, but patients pay all other routine doctor visits and tests with their own money from the HSA account. As a result, HSA users are far more cost-conscious than customers who are reimbursed for the majority of their care.

    The bills seriously endanger the trend toward consumer-driven care in general. By requiring minimum packages, they would prevent patients from choosing stripped-down plans that cover only major medical expenses. "The government could set extremely low deductibles that would eliminate HSAs," says John Goodman of the National Center for Policy Analysis, a free-market research group. "And they could do it after the bills are passed."(snip)

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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    Just to clarify, this is not "Obama's" health plan. The information is from H.R. 3200 and is written by John D. Dingel of MI with co-sponsors ...
    Really? I did a google search and HR 3200 is referred to in several instances as "Obama's Health Plan". Is there another piece of legislation? My understanding is the President can't write legislation on his own so another representative(s) would have to author it anyway. Am I mistaken on this?

    I did read through some summaries and a current "draft" of this bill, and there several very troubling elements to the plan.
    If you can't win. Make the fellow in front of you break the record.


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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    I did read through some summaries and a current "draft" of this bill, and there several very troubling elements to the plan
    Yes, and some aspects are scary in ways that an average person would never think of. For example, the national health insurance bill provides for the US federal gov't to have direct access to the bank account(s) of every person covered ... ostensibly for the purpose of automatically collecting copayments etc. However, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this bank account info will be 'shared' with other gov't agencies. There is also no doubt in my mind that the current state law driven situation of unpaid medical debts being allowed to drag on for years without adverse affect on credit rating will instantly change to the gov't automatically 'seizing' money that ( the gov't thinks) is owed for medical bills under national health care.

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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    also, you might want to look at Dr. Arthur Laffer's independent cost projections ...

    (snip)In 1960, the private sector funded over three-quarters of the nationís health care expenditures. Individuals paid nearly one-half of the total national health care expenditures through out-of-pocket expenditures. Beginning in 1967 the way health care is purchased in the U.S. began to completely reverse itself:

    •The private sector has been slowly funding less and less of the total national health expenditures; as of 2007 less than 54 percent of total national health care expenditures are paid for by the private sector.
    •Reciprocally, the public sector has been slowly funding more and more of the total national health expenditures; as of 2007 public expenditures at the federal and state levels now fund nearly one-half of the total health care expenditures in the U.S.
    •Total out-of-pocket expenditures have been plummeting as a share of total health expenditures at an even faster rate; today only a bit more than $1 out of every $10 spent on health care is being funded by individuals through out-of-pocket expenditures.
    This has resulted in a large and growing government health care wedge — an economic separation of effort from reward, of consumers (patients) from producers (health care providers), caused by government policies. Rising government expenditures on health care are the main factor driving the growth in the wedge. The wedge is a primary driver in rising health care costs, i.e., inflation in medical costs.

    President Barack Obama's principles to drastically alter U.S. health care policy-a public health insurance exchange, mandated minimum coverage, mandated coverage of preexisting conditions, required purchase of health insurance-do not address the growing wedge and its role as the fundamental driver of health care costs. In fact, they will further increase the wedge, and can thus be expected to increase medical price inflation.

    •Specifically, the planned $1 trillion increase in federal government health subsidies over 10 years based on President Obamaís principles will have the following consequences:
    •Overall, total federal government expenditures will be 5.6 percent higher than otherwise by 2019, adding $285.6 billion to the federal deficit in 2019.
    •An increase in national health care expenditures by an additional 8.9 percent by 2019.
    •An increase in medical price inflation by 5.2 percent above what it would have been otherwise by 2019.
    •A reduction in U.S. economic growth in 2019 compared to the baseline scenario by 4.9 percent for the nation as a whole.
    The current net present value of funding health care reform based on President Obamaís priorities would be $1.3 trillion (due to higher medical inflation and expenditures), or $4,354 for every man, woman, and child in the U.S. These figures include:


    •A net present value of all additional federal government expenditures through 2019 of $1.2 trillion, or $3,900 per capita, and
    •A net present value of all state government expenditures through 2019 of $138 billion, or $454 per capita.

    Despite these costs, 30 million people would remain uninsured. The cost to reduce the number of uninsured by 16 million people is $62,500 in subsidy expenditures per person insured.(snip)

    from

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    Default Re: Obama health care proposal would increase taxes on dancers by 2.5% !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeybobby View Post
    Bottom line is: electing Obama was the best move the country could have made to improve health care, the economy, and the security of the United States...regardless of all the catterwalling and hot air coming from the right wing.
    electing Obama was the lesser evil the country could have made to improve health care, the economy, and the security of the United States

    There, fixed that for ya...

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