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Thread: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

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    Default Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    In remarks yesterday to the National Press Club, totally ignored by the media, even the WSJ and Fox, Barney Frank let his Socialist slip show.

    Frank related how banks and others covered by proposed regulations originating with his House Banking and Financial Services Committee have complained to him that if passed they won't be able to make any money. Frank : "The answer is, that's not my job. We're not here to help you make money. We're here to help have a system in which you will make money as an incident of your providing funds to those who use it productively."

    Be afraid. Be VERY afraid.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 07-28-2009 at 01:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Atlas Shrugged? (it's a book)

    I figure we'll get a hard core republican in a few terms that will swing national policy completely the other way around and then the other half of the population will be freaking out about that.

    If I was a bank I would fire everyone except for some fall guys, get a huge vault somewhere the government couldn't find, and buy a bazillion dollars worth of gold.

    Two years ago one of the old guys at my club that just comes in to drink soda pop and feel important told me to take all my cash and buy gold. I wish I had listened!

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    indeed author Ayn Rand's speculations in the novel 'Atlas Shrugged' seem more and more possible with each passing day and each new proposal from Washington !

    Also, by pure coincidence *wink* *wink*, efforts to produce a feature film version of 'Atlas Shrugged' have been repeatedly derailed. It now appears that there is talk of a mini-series



    Circling back to the point, Barney Frank's comment is seemingly indicative of a new Washington attitude in general ... that new policies are worthy of being enacted as long as they somehow contribute to a 'greater good', no matter what the negative economic consequences would be on particular individuals / groups / industries.

    Specifically, Barney Frank's comments would seem to be a de-facto invitation for potential investors in anything American to take their money and run - RUN - for the Cayman Islands !

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    In remarks yesterday to the National Press Club, totally ignored by the media, even the WSJ and Fox, Barney Frank let his Socialist slip show.

    Frank related how banks and others covered by proposed regulations originating with his House Banking and Financial Services Committee have complained to him that if passed they won't be able to make any money. Frank : "The answer is, that's not my job. We're not here to help you make money. We're here to help have a system in which you will make money as an incident of your providing funds to those who use it productively."

    Be afraid. Be VERY afraid.
    That Frank guy drives me up the walls, but he does have a valid point. The government is not there to help them make a profit but it is there to regulate a system for use of capital.

    In my mind, a little more regulation (or rather - ENFORCEMENT) would have been more helpful in years past.

    (And yes, the guy has a talent for wiggling out of what he has said in the past.)

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol View Post
    That Frank guy drives me up the walls, but he does have a valid point. The government is not there to help them make a profit but it is there to regulate a system for use of capital.

    In my mind, a little more regulation (or rather - ENFORCEMENT) would have been more helpful in years past.

    (And yes, the guy has a talent for wiggling out of what he has said in the past.)
    Twer it only true ! Ideally, the government ought to do nothing more than promulgate laws and rules that keep the system fair and playing field level. Instead, ever since FDR, it has tried to pick winners and losers, favoring one group or industry over another and committing all sorts of mischief that is usually counterproductive.

    What makes Fwank's remarks so widiculous is that he seems to have no conception of how capitawism works. ( No surpise as he has NEVER worked in the private sector.) Without pwofits, where does Barney think tax revenues are going to come fwom ?

    Even more twoubwing was the bwackout on reporting what Barney had to say. Just more evidence that the lamestream media is in the tank for Obama and the Dems.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 07-29-2009 at 08:24 AM.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    I agree with Deogol's comments above, all of them. Why should we do anything to guarantee bank profits, as they are private enterprises with plenty of opportunity to make profits or to fail.

    It is interesting to note that Jefferson favored national banks while Jackson favored private banks.

    Jefferson: "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

    "In particular, the Jacksonians opposed banks, especially the national bank, known as the Second Bank of the United States. Jackson himself got into the infamous "Bank War"...but was able to run the Bank of the US dry by withdrawing federal funds and putting them into "pet banks." These pet banks then would speculate on land outwest (wildcat banks), and eventualy the overspeculation led to the Panic of 1837."

    This is from my "Concepts of Democracy" thread over in the Political Discussions group.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    I agree with Deogol's comments above, all of them. Why should we do anything to guarantee bank profits, as they are private enterprises with plenty of opportunity to make profits or to fail.

    It is interesting to note that Jefferson favored national banks while Jackson favored private banks.

    Jefferson: "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

    "In particular, the Jacksonians opposed banks, especially the national bank, known as the Second Bank of the United States. Jackson himself got into the infamous "Bank War"...but was able to run the Bank of the US dry by withdrawing federal funds and putting them into "pet banks." These pet banks then would speculate on land outwest (wildcat banks), and eventualy the overspeculation led to the Panic of 1837."

    This is from my "Concepts of Democracy" thread over in the Political Discussions group.
    If banks are not profitable then where will businesses go for financing ? Where will homebuyers go for mortgages ? The Government ? Hmmmm. Is that what they are trying to do ? Lay the groundwork for just one , great, big, government owned and run bank ?

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Lay the groundwork for just one , great, big, government owned and run bank
    Well, where mortgage banking is concerned, this is already arguably the case with Fannie and Freddie ! If you don't accept that premise, please explain the current situation with 'jumbo' mortgage loans which are not eligible for repurchase by Fannie and Freddie.

    Arguably, TARP i.e. the US Treasury has recently been taking on an analogous repurchase role in the auto loan sector ... at least for autos manufactured by 'Government Motors' i.e. GM and Chrysler.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Oh nose! Now they want to regulate the companies which are licensed to create money out of thin air.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    ^^^ actually it is the FED that creates money out of thin air. The primary dealer 'banks' merely arrange to loan out / invest the newly created money ( with associated profits and fees ).

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ actually it is the FED that creates money out of thin air. The primary dealer 'banks' merely arrange to loan out / invest the newly created money ( with associated profits and fees ).
    Sorry. let me rephrase.

    Oh nose! Now they want to regulate the companies which are licensed to create debt out of thin air.

    It only becomes monetary creation as the principle + interest are paid on the debt issued against money the bank only had a fraction of to begin with.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    If banks are not profitable then where will businesses go for financing ? Where will homebuyers go for mortgages ?
    Why should the government guarantee any profits to anybody? Critical non-govt business functions need to exist, but the USConstitution contains no guarantee of income to equity-holders of such businesses, any more than it does to critical businesses like defense contractors, large auto manufacturers, or road constructors, etc.

    Unless you have an equity stake in banking, I don't see why you could even think that.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    ^^^ yeah, well, let's apply that constitutional principle to Amtrak, the US Postal Service, Fannie / Freddie etc. as soon as possible. All will be bankrupt within months, to be replaced by new private sector options at far lower actual cost !

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    Why should the government guarantee any profits to anybody? Critical non-govt business functions need to exist, but the USConstitution contains no guarantee of income to equity-holders of such businesses, any more than it does to critical businesses like defense contractors, large auto manufacturers, or road constructors, etc.

    Unless you have an equity stake in banking, I don't see why you could even think that.
    For a guy that rails against the effects of free trade, you seem anxious and willing to create conditions that will cause a massive capital flight from this country. If Fwank and his ilk get their way, dollars will leave the U.S. in droves to seek a more conducive environment.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    ^^^ agreed big time ... per my Cayman Islands comment earlier in this thread. Somewhere along the line most politicians and ordinary citizens lost sight of the fact that for many years the USA has been depending on the 'kindness of strangers' willing to lend / invest more and more of their foreign source money into the USA to keep the US economy / standard of living 'afloat'. When that flow of foreign investment stops America's economy will be in trouble. If that flow of foreign investment REVERSES America's economy will be 'doomed'.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    AGAIN................. I'm not saying that they should not be allowed to make profits, just that they should NOT be guaranteed profits.

    Amtrak, the US Postal Service, etc are not conventional private enterprises and so are not guaranteed profits, though they are not expected to be black holes into which the government pours tax money. We wouldn't let them do that for long. And if they were to become private enterprises, they should be allowed to fail or make profits the same as any other venture.

    Returning to banking, the largest haven't been good players, and from that standpoint why should those be rewarded by guarantees? And especially why should they be favored? I believe that throwing them financial life preservers is plenty enough; now let them swim since they think they are so capable.

    ^^ That is not Republican or conservative at all; it is purely and obviously pro-banking. That's just rich-person favoritism.
    Last edited by threlayer; 07-30-2009 at 01:59 PM.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ...Somewhere along the line most politicians and ordinary citizens lost sight of the fact that for many years the USA has been depending on the 'kindness of strangers' willing to lend / invest more and more of their foreign source money into the USA to keep the US economy / standard of living 'afloat'. When that flow of foreign investment stops America's economy will be in trouble. If that flow of foreign investment REVERSES America's economy will be 'doomed'.
    If the US had practiced economic responsibility during the last decade or so, this idiocy would not have been the case. Wars cost money, and we should have been paying as we went. Sometimes war costs more than military lives and maybe we would have been less aggressive in starting a needless war if we hadn't "borrowed" money for those wars. Also maybe we wouldn't have been so willing to spend down our savings if we hadn't had the false vision that the US (and our fortunes) was doing so well that we could fight two wars and have a boom in those investments too. What stupidity!

    AND... Don't blame that on poor people trying to stay out of the rain; the numbers just aren't there.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    AGAIN................. I'm not saying that they should not be allowed to make profits, just that they should NOT be guaranteed profits.

    Amtrak, the US Postal Service, etc are not conventional private enterprises and so are not guaranteed profits, though they are not expected to be black holes into which the government pours tax money. We wouldn't let them do that for long. And if they were to become private enterprises, they should be allowed to fail or make profits the same as any other venture.

    Returning to banking, the largest haven't been good players, and from that standpoint why should those be rewarded by guarantees? And especially why should they be favored? I believe that throwing them financial life preservers is plenty enough; now let them swim since they think they are so capable.

    ^^ That is not Republican or conservative at all; it is purely and obviously pro-banking. That's just rich-person favoritism.
    ROTFLMAO ! Amtrak ? The Postal Service ?? Amtrak has NEVER shown a profit. The Postal Service is running a deficit. As usual. As a government run bank almost certainly would.

    Just as Amtrak is forced to maintain unprofitable routes, a government run bank would undoubtedly make unprofitable loans to serve a "higher purpose".

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Amtrak was a mass transit initiative; it's last gasp effort to utilize the extensive rail system placed here in the 1800s. The railroads were supercedd by the Interstate highway system, as well as air travel--all of which were initially heavily subsidized by the government. Post Office was established by Ben Franklin to improve information flow; its rates continue to climb, limiting its deficit. Different advanced countries do the posting thing in different ways.

    Laugh your ass off. Who cares? Just try to understand replies to you first.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    And for the record, your post is misleadingly titled. That is not what is said in your quyote attributed to him.

    It would be better for us if you carefully read what you post about.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    And for the record, your post is misleadingly titled. That is not what is said in your quyote attributed to him.

    It would be better for us if you carefully read what you post about.
    I think it's a very reasonable extrapolation from what Fwank said to the National Press Club AND what he has said before both in and out of Congress.

    The man is demonstrably hostile to capitalism, innovation, risk, innovation and human progress.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    Amtrak was a mass transit initiative; it's last gasp effort to utilize the extensive rail system placed here in the 1800s. The railroads were supercedd by the Interstate highway system, as well as air travel--all of which were initially heavily subsidized by the government. Post Office was established by Ben Franklin to improve information flow; its rates continue to climb, limiting its deficit. Different advanced countries do the posting thing in different ways.

    Laugh your ass off. Who cares? Just try to understand replies to you first.
    Amtrak was NOT a "mass transit" intiative. It was an attempt to maintain nationwide passenger rail service. Most railroads today do not carry passengers. They are NOT profitable. Freight is.

    Amtrak has profitable routes like the Boston to D.C. corridor and NYC to Montreal. Just not enough of them.

    Actually, despite the deficit it often runs, the U.S. does have a fairly efficient postal service compared to most advanced countries. Use "snail mail" to Canada and see how long it takes to be delivered; at least a week.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Amtrak was NOT a "mass transit" intiative....Amtrak has profitable routes ...Just not enough of them.
    It sur was. I remember that forom long ago, thinking theres ot enough railroads to go where people want to go, needs to be combined with municipal and rural buslines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Actually, despite the deficit it often runs, the U.S. does have a fairly efficient postal service compared to most advanced countries. Use "snail mail" to Canada and see how long it takes to be delivered; at least a week.
    We've let the supplemental carriers (USPS, FedEX) grow by subsidization (interstates, airports subsidized by several layers of government); some other countries have integrated email into their postal service, for example.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Barney Frank says: "Profits don't matter."

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    I think it's a very reasonable extrapolation from what Fwank said to the National Press Club AND what he has said before both in and out of Congress.
    I think it is unreasonable to attribute 'devil-talk' to a man you obviously hate, when you're the one who said it; your judgement is far from having any degree of objectivity.
    Last edited by threlayer; 08-25-2009 at 06:12 AM.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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