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Thread: so much for creating 'green jobs' in America

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    Default so much for creating 'green jobs' in America

    (snip)"Barack Obama said the Waxman-Markey carbon tax would help create “green energy” jobs in the U.S. He is now using taxpayer dollars to fund jobs in Spain.
    by Bill Levinson

    Barack Obama sold the Waxman-Markey “American Clean Energy and Security Act” to Congress and the American people by saying that investment in so-called “green energy” would create millions of high-wage American manufacturing jobs. We received an E-mail from the Society of Manufacturing Engineers (nonpartisan professional organization) that exposed Barack Obama as a blatant prevaricator who is shamelessly using our tax dollars to create jobs not in the United States but in foreign countries. We wonder what rank and file union members–not union bosses who, to paraphrase Henry Ford, have never worked in a shop and whose ambition is to never have to work in a shop, but blue collar workers who actually put in eight hours of honest work every day–will do to the Democratic Party when they discover this. We encourage our readers to circulate this article as widely as possible so they will find out. From the September 2 2009 Wall Street Journal, “U.S. Doles Out Grants for Energy Projects,”

    But while the wind farms and solar installations are in the U.S., the profits from these projects are flowing mainly to European companies and developers owned by private-equity investors. Iberdrola SA, the Spanish wind-power giant, was awarded $294 million for five projects. Spokesman Keith Grant said the grants are “crucial to pushing ahead” with U.S. wind projects.

    Right, Barry, do you want to tell us again how you are going to create millions of “green energy” jobs for American workers? We don’t see how giving $294 million, or about a dollar stolen from the pocket of every person in the United States, to Iberdrola SA will create even one manufacturing job for American workers. Another beneficiary of Obama’s energy program admitted openly that his company needs corporate welfare to survive:

    EverPower Wind Holdings Inc. received a $42.2 million grant for a wind farm in Pennsylvania. “In order to make wind power economical, it requires a tax subsidy,” said Jim Spencer, chief executive of EverPower, in which British private-equity firm Terra Firma Capital Partners recently bought a controlling stake.
    This is corporate welfare, plain and simple. Barack Obama is using taxpayer money to subsidize a business that cannot justify its existence by providing enough value to pay its employees, suppliers, and of course its well-paid executives and British investors.
    Bloomberg News adds,

    Spain’s Iberdrola Gets U.S. Grants for Wind Projects
    By Daniel Whitten

    Sept. 1 (Bloomberg) — Iberdrola SA, a Spanish company, will get most of the more than $500 million in economic recovery funds the Obama administration said today it is distributing to U.S. renewable-energy projects.

    …The money is part of President Barack Obama’s economic recovery plan. The entire plan contains about $3 billion that will be given in lieu of tax credits to support about 5,000 biomass, solar, wind and other types of renewable energy production facilities.


    Res ipsa loquitur, the thing speaks for itself. Barack Obama knowingly and willfully misled the American people about the nature and agenda of his energy policy

  2. #2
    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: so much for creating 'green jobs' in America

    And an additional irony, as I pointed out in another thread, is that Spain is the quintessential "lab" that proves that "greening" costs jobs and does not create them.

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    Default Re: so much for creating 'green jobs' in America

    Moving to greener energy will require government regulation and subsidies. This is normal. It's the only way to put the nation's interests above profit. Green energy currently can't compete with the status quo energy sources and subsidies are required initially to nudge and cajole the green energy industry to a point where it can compete. All industry in the US is subsidized in some way.

    "The U.S. government handed out $502 million in grants for a dozen wind- and solar-power projects from Maine to South Texas, the first round in a new subsidy program designed to spur renewable-energy investment.

    The program appears to be accomplishing two of the Obama administration's goals: producing employment and encouraging renewable-energy development. The approved energy projects have created about 2,000 jobs and capacity to generate 850 megawatts of clean electricity, enough for nearly 500,000 homes.

    But while the wind farms and solar installations are in the U.S., the profits from these projects are flowing mainly to European companies and developers owned by private-equity investors.
    "

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125182848772276871.html

    Who the hell cares if the profits are going to shareholders or investors overseas, or in Tim-buk-fucking-tu? The jobs are in the US, and the green energy is being created and used in the US...and that's what it's all about boys and girls.

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: so much for creating 'green jobs' in America

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeybobby View Post
    Moving to greener energy will require government regulation and subsidies. This is normal. It's the only way to put the nation's interests above profit. Green energy currently can't compete with the status quo energy sources and subsidies are required initially to nudge and cajole the green energy industry to a point where it can compete. All industry in the US is subsidized in some way.

    "The U.S. government handed out $502 million in grants for a dozen wind- and solar-power projects from Maine to South Texas, the first round in a new subsidy program designed to spur renewable-energy investment.

    The program appears to be accomplishing two of the Obama administration's goals: producing employment and encouraging renewable-energy development. The approved energy projects have created about 2,000 jobs and capacity to generate 850 megawatts of clean electricity, enough for nearly 500,000 homes.

    But while the wind farms and solar installations are in the U.S., the profits from these projects are flowing mainly to European companies and developers owned by private-equity investors.
    "

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125182848772276871.html

    Who the hell cares if the profits are going to shareholders or investors overseas, or in Tim-buk-fucking-tu? The jobs are in the US, and the green energy is being created and used in the US...and that's what it's all about boys and girls.
    Yes, but only up to a point . First of all, General Electric is a world leader in wind turbine production and an early and strong Obama supporter via NBC and MSNBC.

    Wind and solar are NOT profitable based on the construction and land costs ( it has to be purchased, leased or condemned and then sold.) Not compared to other ways of electrical generation. France and Switzerland are the "greenest" of the "green" in Europe and both make extensive use of nuclear power. As should we.

    Rather than direct subsidies we ought to just use tax credits to encourage building wind and solar farms. Neither has a fuel cost attached so both ought to be profitable and competitive at some point. And if not then too bad, too sad. We should let market forces determine which modes of energy production win out.

    The real point is that shifting to wind and solar does NOT magically create jobs to make up for those lost by onerous government regulation of other types of energy. Spain has record unemployment and has lost jobs as a result of it's "green" policies.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 09-03-2009 at 12:01 PM.

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    Default Re: so much for creating 'green jobs' in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    We should let market forces determine which modes of energy production win out.
    "Market forces" are inadequate in serving the greater interests of the citizens of the United States. You already know this.

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    Default Re: so much for creating 'green jobs' in America

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeybobby View Post
    "Market forces" are inadequate in serving the greater interests of the citizens of the United States. You already know this.
    Baloney ! It wasn't the government that got folks to switch to fuel efficient cars ( before Cash for Clunkers ) or switch to more efficient appliances. It was the price of gas and electricity.

    If we are serious, really SERIOUS about cutting carbon emissions all we have to do is tax carbon. Forget about "Cap & Trade" and all this other malarkey. Just slap a tax on coal, and petroleum and natural gas. The reason we don't do it ? Because everyone is going to see it and feel it based on their own carbon usage and not somebody else's. Obviously, wind, solar, nuclear and a few other energy modes would not be subject to the tax, and theoretically at least, ought to be able to compete on what would be a level or leveled playing field.

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    Default Re: so much for creating 'green jobs' in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    Baloney ! It wasn't the government that got folks to switch to fuel efficient cars ( before Cash for Clunkers ) or switch to more efficient appliances. It was the price of gas and electricity.

    If we are serious, really SERIOUS about cutting carbon emissions all we have to do is tax carbon. Forget about "Cap & Trade" and all this other malarkey. Just slap a tax on coal, and petroleum and natural gas. The reason we don't do it ? Because everyone is going to see it and feel it based on their own carbon usage and not somebody else's. Obviously, wind, solar, nuclear and a few other energy modes would not be subject to the tax, and theoretically at least, ought to be able to compete on what would be a level or leveled playing field.
    Very good Eric! This is precisely how governments can nudge things in the right direction...in this case, as you describe, by taxing the less desirable option. It's sort of the same as subsidizing the desirable option, except subsidizing is more focused.

    The cash for clunkers thing was more than just encouraging better fuel consumption...it was to help the auto companies and their employees through a difficult time as well.

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    Default Re: so much for creating 'green jobs' in America

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeybobby View Post
    Very good Eric! This is precisely how governments can nudge things in the right direction...in this case, as you describe, by taxing the less desirable option. It's sort of the same as subsidizing the desirable option, except subsidizing is more focused.

    The cash for clunkers thing was more than just encouraging better fuel consumption...it was to help the auto companies and their employees through a difficult time as well.
    Thank you Bobby and back at ya for getting "Cash for Clunkers" right.

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    Default Re: so much for creating 'green jobs' in America

    If I didn't hear it and watch her say it, I wouldn't have believed it. Governor Granholm of Michigan said yesterday on Fox News Sunday that Michigan would create 40,000 "Green" jobs in the next ten years. Her state has already lost HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of jobs and the most optimistic projections say that Michigan will lose at least 300,000 more and she seriously thinks that "green technologies" will bring Michigan back from the abyss ?

    How did this nit-wit ever become Governor ? She can't even do basic math ! About 1 million jobs lost minus 40,000 "green jobs" created is a net PERMANENT loss of how many jobs, Governor Granholm ?

    She looked and sounded pathetic when she tried to disput Steve Wynn's point that the source of wealth and increased standard of living in this country is NOT government but is Private Sector Employment. Wynn oughta know. Unemployment in Vegas is 13%. It's a LOT less in Macau where he has extensive gambling interests.

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