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Thread: California Continues to Lead The Way

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    Default California Continues to Lead The Way

    To the outhouse.

    California's Education Code by which the state legislators micromanage California's schools at the behest of the teacher's unions has hit 2,000 pages and is growing.

    Half of California's 600,000 public school employees do NOT work in the classroom.

    25% of public school teachers send their children to private schools.

    One in three school dollars goes to teacher pensions.

    California depends on 200,000 wealthy taxpayers for 25% of its revenue. And California trails only New York in the number of people LEAVING the state. More would leave if they could sell their homes.

    From 1999 to 2007, California lost 26% of its facory jobs and 35% of its high tech manufacturing jobs.

    It has the lowest debt rating of any state. It used to have one of the highest.

    It has the fourth highest unemployment rate. It used to have one of the lowest.

    In jop growth since 2000 it is 20% below the national average.

    State and county public safety employees retire at age 50 getting 90% of their final year's pay as their pension. Until they die. Life expectancy ? 79 years.

    State employee pension funds receive over $3 billion in tax funds per year. Ten times what was contributed just 10 years ago. Yet the unfunded liability of those funds keeps growing. More than 5,000 retired state employees get pensions exceeding $100,000.

    From 1997 to 2007 the state workforce grew 24% to almost 900,000.

    Schwarzenegger succeeded the recalled "Gray-out" Davis on a platform of fiscal responsibility. Spending has increased 40% faster under "Ahhhnold" than under Davis. Since 2005, state spending has grown twice as fast as both inflation and the state's population.

    In 2002 California's prison guards got a 37% raise. Now California is preparing to release tens of thousands of felons to both comply with court orders dealing with overcrowding and to help balance the budget. There are 19,000 illegal immigrants incarcerated in California.

    California represents Liberalism and Democrat policies in full flower. The foregoing has resulted from decades of a Democrat legislature doing the bidding of the public employee unions especially the teachers and prison guards.

    Nevada and Idaho have experienced record growth thanks primarily to the exodus of hardworking taxpayers from California. The tax exiles were replaced primarily by illegal immigrants.

    New York and New Jersey are following California's lead over the same fiscal cliff.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 09-14-2009 at 07:00 AM.

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    On a more basic level, California is the 'poster child' for a 'non-ownership' ownership society ...

    (snip)"The Heritage Foundation report missed one key aspect of being poor in America. The politicians and banks have taken advantage of the poor’s lack of education and ignorance regarding the perils of debt and have enslaved them in a monthly payment plantation. The poor don’t own the cars, electronics, homes and appliances. They are renting them until they can no longer make the payments. The politicians have colluded with the Federal Reserve and banks to provide bad money to the poor in order to keep them satiated and pliable. When the debt predictably goes bad, the banks are compensated by their bought government cronies with middle class’ tax dollars.





    Americans, led by the Baby Boom Generation, have been living like spoiled children for thirty years. They have thought like children, with instant self-gratification as their sole aspiration. It is time to put away childish things. Hard times have arrived. There is no easy way out. We have kicked the can down the road for a generation. Tomorrow has arrived. Our long-term structural problems have now collided with our current debt induced tragedy. Current policies that further the expansion of debt will ultimately lead to the collapse of our economic system. The timing is all that is in doubt.(snip)

    from


    The relevant point of course is that California leads the nation in high risk loans and bank failures ... and also leads the nation in state legislation preventing foreclosures / repossessions ! As such, California arguably has the highest degree of 'moral hazard' regarding irresponsible personal financial behavior. On the flip side, California has one of the highest state and local tax rates for middle class and 'rich' state residents ( which recently got even higher ) as a necessary consequence of state and local gov't spending levels. Thus in terms of incentives, California provides 'poor' people with extemely few reasons to leave the state, and provides 'middle class' and 'rich' people with extremely few reasons to stay in the state !

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    ... and you KNOW deep shit is near when Keynesian Paul Krugman has this to say ...

    (snip)"State of Paralysis
    By PAUL KRUGMAN
    Published: May 24, 2009

    California, it has long been claimed, is where the future happens first. But is that still true? If it is, God help America.

    The recession has hit the Golden State hard. The housing bubble was bigger there than almost anywhere else, and the bust has been bigger too. California’s unemployment rate, at 11 percent, is the fifth-highest in the nation. And the state’s revenues have suffered accordingly.

    What’s really alarming about California, however, is the political system’s inability to rise to the occasion.

    Despite the economic slump, despite irresponsible policies that have doubled the state’s debt burden since Arnold Schwarzenegger became governor, California has immense human and financial resources. It should not be in fiscal crisis; it should not be on the verge of cutting essential public services and denying health coverage to almost a million children. But it is — and you have to wonder if California’s political paralysis foreshadows the future of the nation as a whole.

    The seeds of California’s current crisis were planted more than 30 years ago, when voters overwhelmingly passed Proposition 13, a ballot measure that placed the state’s budget in a straitjacket. Property tax rates were capped, and homeowners were shielded from increases in their tax assessments even as the value of their homes rose.

    The result was a tax system that is both inequitable and unstable. It’s inequitable because older homeowners often pay far less property tax than their younger neighbors. It’s unstable because limits on property taxation have forced California to rely more heavily than other states on income taxes, which fall steeply during recessions.

    Last week Bill Gross of Pimco, the giant bond fund, warned that the U.S. government may lose its AAA debt rating in a few years, thanks to the trillions it’s spending to rescue the economy and the banks. Is that a real possibility?

    Well, in a rational world Mr. Gross’s warning would make no sense. America’s projected deficits may sound large, yet it would take only a modest tax increase to cover the expected rise in interest payments — and right now American taxes are well below those in most other wealthy countries. The fiscal consequences of the current crisis, in other words, should be manageable.

    But that presumes that we’ll be able, as a political matter, to act responsibly. The example of California shows that this is by no means guaranteed. And the political problems that have plagued California for years are now increasingly apparent at a national level.

    To be blunt: recent events suggest that the Republican Party has been driven mad by lack of power. The few remaining moderates have been defeated, have fled, or are being driven out. What’s left is a party whose national committee has just passed a resolution solemnly declaring that Democrats are “dedicated to restructuring American society along socialist ideals,” and released a video comparing Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi to Pussy Galore.

    And that party still has 40 senators.

    So will America follow California into ungovernability? Well, California has some special weaknesses that aren’t shared by the federal government. In particular, tax increases at the federal level don’t require a two-thirds majority, and can in some cases bypass the filibuster. So acting responsibly should be easier in Washington than in Sacramento.

    But the California precedent still has me rattled. Who would have thought that America’s largest state, a state whose economy is larger than that of all but a few nations, could so easily become a banana republic?"(snip)

    from


    At this point Paul Krugman should be breathing a little easier from a Keynesian 'tax and spend' standpoint. The state has now enacted both income tax and sales tax increases, which Krugman holds out as the solution to California ( and America's ) gov't budget problems. Additionally, the state has received a huge injection of Obama stimulus funds courtesy of federal taxpayers. The state has done little to reduce overall state spending other than the governator giving state workers a few additional days off ( which surprisingly are UN-paid !) and the state releasing a few prisoners back onto the streets. Yet the state's bond and credit rating is still the lowest in the country, making California pay the highest interest rates of any state to borrow yet more money for its gov't to continue spending like a proverbial drunken sailor. Yet the state has the highest 'exodus' rate of ( actual income tax paying ) middle class and 'rich' former residents, which is offset by an ever increasing ( tax revenue consuming) 'illegal immigration' rate.

    Indeed it would appear that your own and Paul Krugman's observation that 'California leads the nation' is ultimately correct ... or at least as correct as federal law allows. For example, the National Health Care bill contains significant federal income tax rate increase provisions, as well as 'stealth tax' provisions on everything from health care itself to soft drinks. Not surprisingly, a whole lot of upper middle class and 'rich' Americans have been attempting to move some portion of their assets beyond the reach of the federal tax man, just as former California residents have removed their assets ( as well as their asses ) beyond the reach of the California tax man. And as with California motivating businesses to leave the state, actual or proposed increases in US environmental costs, minimum wage, mandatory employee benefit costs, energy costs, de-facto business tax rates etc. provide a growing incentive for US businesses to leave the country as well. The classic historical result of such policies is the 'elimination' of the middle class, leaving the 'ruling elite' comprised of gov't officials / employees and well connected uber-rich business leaders / owners, and the 'tolerably poor' i.e. everyone else ... which aptly fits Krugman's adjective of a Banana Republic.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 09-12-2009 at 04:19 PM.

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    ... plus a ton of 'curious' California economic statistics at ...



    among them ...


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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    These fuckers and their "it's proposition 13's fault!" Thirty years of increasing taxes in one of the biggest economies of the world and they still don't think it is enough. Why.

    SPENDING.

    And so much of it is directed towards that small portion of the population that works for the government. I have heard of multiples of people getting 100K pensions and shit.

    Then they go and do a bunch of spending on shit they don't even use. Case in point HOV lanes that no one can friggin drive in. Oh my god the crap that state spends money on.

    I moved out. I am glad I moved out. And I highly doubt I will ever be back. The hippies have made that place from a paradise to hell (complete with drug grower spawned wild fires.) It's freedom to live someplace where they tell you how tall your grass can be?

    I shake my head and fear for the future with the same dimwit idealists in charge of the congress.

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol View Post
    These fuckers and their "it's proposition 13's fault!" Thirty years of increasing taxes in one of the biggest economies of the world and they still don't think it is enough. Why.

    SPENDING.

    And so much of it is directed towards that small portion of the population that works for the government. I have heard of multiples of people getting 100K pensions and shit.

    Then they go and do a bunch of spending on shit they don't even use. Case in point HOV lanes that no one can friggin drive in. Oh my god the crap that state spends money on.

    I moved out. I am glad I moved out. And I highly doubt I will ever be back. The hippies have made that place from a paradise to hell (complete with drug grower spawned wild fires.) It's freedom to live someplace where they tell you how tall your grass can be?

    I shake my head and fear for the future with the same dimwit idealists in charge of the congress.
    All true but the essential point is that Californians have done this to themselves.
    Proposition 13 limited property tax increases. Instead of restraining spending, California's towns and cities scrambled for other revenue sources trying to tax anything that wasn't nailed down. But the people of California have continually used the Proposition/ Public Referendum process to BOTH increase the size and role of government and deny it revenue. And they keep returning the same spendthrifts to the Legislature who know what needs to be done, but just keep deepening the quagmire.

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    On a related note, the N.Y.C. UFT contract expires on October 31. Just days before the mayoral election. And the UFT hasn't endorsed anyone yet. And they are seeking huge increases in teacher pay.

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    Latest unemployment numbers for California- 12%.
    For NYC- 10.3%

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    'What, Me Worry" ? As predicted, the House of Representatives floated yet another 13 week federally funded extension of unemployment benefits today ... in order to avoid another 400,000 unemployed Americans from exhausting their already extended total of up to 66 weeks worth of unemployment benefits this month. Just think, if Washington keeps extending unemployment benefits, those that are anywhere near retirement age can simply coast seamlessly from unemployment / medicaid to social security / medicare !!!

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    What would you have done Mel?

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeybobby View Post
    What would you have done Mel?
    Yeah. I have to agree. You can't let people starve.

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    You can't let people starve
    Who said anything about starving ? Every one of those 400,000 unemployed who would have exhausted their unemployment benefits would still have been eligible for medicaid / food stamps / AFDC and a host of other social welfare benefits. What they would NOT have been eligible for is 3 months worth of additional unemployment checks ... which allow them to avoid making sacrifices ( like relocation ) in order to obtain a 'replacement' job. After all, in a manner similar to post-Katrina New Orleans, we wouldn't want the concentrated local population of unemployed people ( who overwhelmingly vote democrat) from being relocated to other states in order to find work ( i.e. states which typically have a republican voting majority).

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Who said anything about starving ? Every one of those 400,000 unemployed who would have exhausted their unemployment benefits would still have been eligible for medicaid / food stamps / AFDC and a host of other social welfare benefits. What they would NOT have been eligible for is 3 months worth of additional unemployment checks ... which allow them to avoid making sacrifices ( like relocation ) in order to obtain a 'replacement' job. After all, in a manner similar to post-Katrina New Orleans, we wouldn't want the concentrated local population of unemployed people ( who overwhelmingly vote democrat) from being relocated to other states in order to find work ( i.e. states which typically have a republican voting majority).
    Melonie- I don't know about you but I've been on unemployment. More than once.
    And one of those times my benefits ran out before I finally found a job. It was no bowl of cherries. You have to cut your expenses to the bone and even when collecting checks chances are you have to dip into savings and maybe even sell things to try and stay afloat. I did. I also did menial labor off the books so I could eat.

    A lot of unemployed people do relocate. I did. To Florida. I wouldn't suggest they go there now. Would you ? Where are they supposed to move to ? Europe ?

    I understand what you're saying about Democrat political strategy and I thnk there is a lot of truth to it. The Dems thrive on government dependency and do everything they can to promote it and to stymie independence and self reliance.

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    ^^^ agreed that extended unemployment is not a pleasant situation. However, just as you pursued yourself, when the 'chips' are WAY down, you took action to improve your situation. Repeatedly extending unemployment benefits simply raises the level of 'moral hazard' by allowing the unemployed / unemployable person to temporarily extend an unsustainable standard of living at the expense of their children and grandchildren. In the long run, extended unemployment benefits accomplishes less than nothing ... other than leaving the existing state / local political balance intact.

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    I tell ya what would improve the situation - throwing guest workers (legal as well illegal) out of the country. That would be a start. And then punishing companies who want to take employment out of the states. I mean, people are years out of work and getting kicked out of their homes now, lost all their savings. Fuck it. The system isn't working. Even I am looking over my shoulder these days.

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    well, according to a professional investor's BBS, THIS is the approach now being taken to begin resolving California's state budget problems ...

    (snip)"Just under a year ago, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and state legislative leaders created the 14-member, bipartisan “Commission on the 21st Century Economy” to find ways to modernize state tax laws. The idea was to achieve a more stable revenue stream and one reflective of the world’s eighth largest economy. California’s $1.8 trillion Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is 13 percent of the US GDP, but the state makes headlines year after year for its giant budget deficits.

    The commission’s final report is not yet in (it was due Sunday), but the draft reforms floated at the commission’s public hearings have already been widely criticized.

    The reform plan involves phasing out the corporate and sales tax and flattening income tax to just two levels: a 2.75 percent rate for married couples making up to $56,000 annually and 6.5 percent for those making more. Itemized deductions would remain only for mortgage interest, property tax, and charitable contributions.

    The resulting reduction in revenue from personal income tax – from 44 percent of revenue to 31 percent – would be made up by expanding the business tax to include new sectors such as lawyers, engineers, business consultants. The business tax is one of the more controversial proposals, in part because it is untested."(snip)

    ... thus it would appear that California is now joining New York in attempting to promote the imposition of a new 'professional services' business income tax in addition to the state income tax. This is highly controversial since it arguably constitutes a 'double whammy' for those that provide 'professional services'. The comment didn't mention that the scope of 'professional services' being contemplated includes lap dances !

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    ^^^^ You raise an interesting point Deogol that I have never understood. On the one hand, we hear a lot of caterwauling about youth unemployment and minority unemployment and lack of jobs for low and unskilled workers. All true afaik. Those jobs are supposedly being done by illegals. Why don't we kick them out and let those jobs be taken by citizens. Won't they take the jobs ?

    When I was in high school I started as a dishwasher; moved up to busboy and by the next summer I was the floor captain. I washed windows, I cleaned houses and did demolition work. When I was unemployed I worked off the books loading soda trucks at a warehouse.
    No job was "beneath me" so long as it paid.

    If somebody could show me that extended unemployment created an actual incentive NOT to actually work, even at a lower paying job than the recipient previously had, then I'd have to agree that maybe it's not such a good idea. Assuming of course, that the jobs are actually available.

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    Those jobs are supposedly being done by illegals. Why don't we kick them out and let those jobs be taken by citizens. Won't they take the jobs
    ... two different factors at work ^^^. On the subject of unskilled jobs being taken by illegals versus citizens, the 'fine print' of course is that when citizens are employed they must be paid $7.50 per hour minimum wage plus the 'employer's' share of SSI tax plus 'employer' paid workmen's comp / unemployment insurance premiums no matter what job they are being asked to do. Illegal aliens working under the table cost the 'employer' significantly less money per hour even if they are paid the same $7.50 per hour straight wage. Also, illegal aliens working under the table are unlikely to complain if their work involves doing things that aren't exactly OSHA compliant etc. The bottom line is that there are many US businesses that simply cannot afford to stay in business if every 'employer' tax and mandated benefit cost and worker safety compliance cost must actually be paid. Or put another way, US laws have 'priced' many above the table unskilled American jobs out of the market.

    The second issue is the equivalent cash value of social welfare benefits ... combined with the income threshold at which eligibility for social welfare benefits is phased out. In certain states, this situation creates a large 'moral hazard' for unskilled but working US citizens to NOT earn more than X dollars ... because if they do work enough hours and do earn more than the X dollar income threshold, all of a sudden they wind up having to pay for medical care / food / housing / utility bills out of their own earnings rather than having them paid by the state / county. You saw the 'poor' American chart that I included in an earlier post. Heritage Foundation did an in-depth study based on the same source data and found a very 'peculiar' common thread ... that 'poor' Americans only work an average of 16 hours per week.

    Since this source data was collected at a time where American had a 4% unemployment rate, the 16 hours per week average cannot be explained by poor economic conditions. In point of fact, it is explained by 'moral hazard' i.e. unskilled workers losing hundreds of dollars per month worth of state / county funded social welfare benefits - from subsidized rent to subsidized utility bills to food stamps to medicaid - if their incomes rise above the eligibility threshold. In fact, in states like NY and CA, the equivalent cash value of lost social welfare benefits creates a 'no-man's land' in regard to income levels between say $20k per year and $35k per year, such that unskilled workers will not accept / keep jobs that fall within this 'no-man's' land earnings level. The reason of course is that the cash value of lost benefits is worth at least $10k a year, meaning that anyone who chooses to work at an income level above $20k but below $30k (after taxes ~ $35k before taxes) is actually LOSING money.

    Arguably, California's proposed two tier state income tax will create another 'no-man's land' of earnings level around the $45k single / $56k married earnings level. However, a 3-4% state tax rate differential is nowhere near as significant as a $1000 annual increase in earnings above the official eligibility threshold causing the loss of eligibility for rent subsidies / utility bill subsidies / medicaid / food stamps that are collectively worth $10k annually ! I would also point out that as long as unemployment benefits fall below the official social welfare benefit income eligibility threshold, long term unemployed persons face a similar 'moral hazard' in regard to accepting another job but losing these subsidies and benefits.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 09-23-2009 at 01:48 PM.

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    ^^^ Yes but you're assuming maintenance of the current status quo re: illegal immigration.
    I'm asking : "What IF we threw them out and kept them out ? " A stretch to be sure given how tied the Dems are to maintaining the flow of illegals.

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    Check this shit out:



    UC study released detailing how much it costs to do business in California. The numbers and consequences are astounding.

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    report on California business regulation costs from SFGate ...

    (snip)"Regulations on small businesses in California have cost the state's economy $492 billion and 3.8 million jobs, according to a report quietly released by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's office this week.

    Republicans in the Legislature have pounced on the findings and on Thursday called the report the "smoking gun" that proves lawmakers are killing the state's economy through burdensome government mandates. But Democrats and at least one capital think tank are highly skeptical of the accuracy of the findings.

    The 84-page report does not specify which regulations were studied and relies on data collected largely by Forbes.

    Citing the report, Republicans said the state should suspend implementation of Assembly Bill 32, California's greenhouse gas reduction plan championed by the governor, along with all other new regulations.

    "We are protecting ourselves literally to death," said Assemblyman Roger Niello, R-Fair Oaks (Sacramento County), at a Capitol news conference held by Republicans to call for action, including legislative hearings and further study to determine costs, or benefits of specific regulations.

    The report, authored by Sanjay B. Varshney, the dean of the business school at California State University Sacramento and Dennis H. Tootelian, a marketing professor at Sacramento State, totaled the "direct, indirect and induced" costs of regulation to calculate the $492 billion figure. It found the cost of regulation was $134,122 per small business in 2007 and caused about one job loss per small business."(snip)

    from

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    They will only accept it when there are riots on the streets.

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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    ^^^ well the University of California students and faculty are already 'rioting'

    (snip)"At UC Berkeley, the flagship campus and home to famous student protests during the turbulent 1960s, an estimated 5,000 students, professors and university staff attended a noon rally at Sproul Plaza during the system-wide "Day of Action." At UCLA, about 700 people gathered at Bruin Plaza and at normally placid U.C. Irvine approximately 500 people attended the noon rally. One protester held a sign that read: "If I wanted to go to a private school, I would have been born into a rich family."

    The University of California Regents, stung by a 20% cutback in state support due to the state budget crisis, are planning to increase student fees another 32%. The U.C. system must chop $637 million out of its budget this year following the agreement between Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and the legislature on how to close California's massive $26 billion shortfall in July. Many of the protesters believe the constant increase in fees over the past decade is endangering the university's mission as a public university that offers students an outstanding education at a cost that middle- and working-class families can afford.

    U.C. Irvine Humanities Lecturer Keith Danner gave an idea of the cuts in his division alone. "On July 1, 2008 we had 80 full time support staff. On July 1, 2009, we had 67 full time staff and with another 26 layoffs coming we will have 41 staff or a 50% cut. These are the people that make departments run." (snip)

    from

    Honestly, my heart bleeds for those UC professors who, via furloughs, will have their pay cut to a level that will be slightly lower than professors at Harvard or Yale, and will actually be expected to 'work for a living' via the termination of some 50% of previous support staff.

    But admittedly I do have some sympathy for UC students and their families who are about to see 'in-state' UC tuition rates rocket up to $10,000 per year. In 'real world' terms, the $10,000 tuition figure is still a bargain. But for students and families who have essentially been enjoying a 'free ride' i.e. the vast majority of actual university costs being borne by California taxpayers rather than university students, this will be a major 'boat-rocker'.

  24. #24
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    you'll love this ...

    Commentary by Bond Guru Bill Gross on California economic factors ... alternatively titled 'Doo Doo Economics' !

  25. #25
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    Default Re: California Continues to Lead The Way

    In short, every month California loses the very people who could fix the situation.

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