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Thread: Retinoids

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    Senior Member XOXO.Katie's Avatar
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    Dizzy Retinoids

    Some questions:

    Is the generic tretinoin as effective as a brand like Retin A? The generic was $100 and Retin A was like twice that, so I got the generic. (WOW my insurance sucks!)


    Should I not use a moisturizer after I use it?

    Do I really have to wait 20 minutes after washing my face to put it on?

    What face washes/moisturizers/serums and other products is everyone using with it?


    Thanks girlies!

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    I'm curious about this, too. What concentration did you get? I seem to recall that it's available in three different strengths. Also, why are you using it - are you fighting acne or wrinkles?

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    God/dess J.D.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Retinoids

    The generic brand is fine, it is basically the same thing. Let me ask you this, did you get the cream, gel, or micro sponge version of it? Yes, you do need to wait at least twenty minutes after washing your face, and no, do not put on anything with it, under it, on top of it (maybe an eye cream around your eyes, but thats it). Also, make extra sure you wear sunscreen, this stuff will make you super sensitive to UV rays. I always used mine with a basic glycolic face wash, nothing fancy.
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    Default Re: Retinoids

    It's .05% strength and it's a cream. Right now I'm using Peter Thomas Roth Glycolic Acid 3% facial wash and I love it. But it says on the back "Not for Retin A users." It sucks to give it up because its hard for me to find cleansers I love. Philosophy makes me break out. Bare minerals make up is great but the cleanser doesn't get the make up off. Maybe I'll go back to Mario Badescu or Cetaphil.

    Oh and I'm using it to prevent wrinkles and fight acne. I've been using Differin and getting ok results, but I wanna bump it up a bit.

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    Why don't you try something like Cetaphil to wash your face? I don't think that would break you out at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by AznExtasy View Post
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    Featured Member pixiepower329's Avatar
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    Default Re: Retinoids

    I am an esthetician. Yes, you definately want to wait 20 minutes after washing. First, if the skin is even slightly damp, you run the risk of experiencing discomfort when you put the product on. Secondly, water changes the effects of the product.

    The generic and brand names generally will work the same (in regards to prescription strength topicals, that is).

    You definately SHOULD NOT use anything with Glycolic Acid in it while on Retin-A. Retin-A, Accutane, and other members of the similar family make your skin thinner and more prone to burn and injury. More to the point, after discontinuing Retin-A, most estheticians will not use any form of chemical peeling agent on you for 6 months post treatment. Accutane users have to wait even longer.

    The biggest things you need to avoid in terms of product is anything with glycolic, salicylic, malic, or mandelic acids. You also want to avoid anything with Hydroquinone or Tyrosene inhibitors... as well as serums that boast that they have Vitamin C. Keep with gentle cleansers... milky cleansers work best. In terms of moisturizers, it really depends on whether your skin is dry or oily. If your skin is oily even with the Retin-A, you need to use humectants... if its dry, you need emolients.

    Now that I've rambled far too long.... lol... if you have any questions.. feel free to ask. This is one area that I am "in the zone" on.
    !

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    Quote Originally Posted by pixiepower329 View Post
    You definately SHOULD NOT use anything with Glycolic Acid in it while on Retin-A. Retin-A, Accutane, and other members of the similar family make your skin thinner and more prone to burn and injury. More to the point, after discontinuing Retin-A, most estheticians will not use any form of chemical peeling agent on you for 6 months post treatment. Accutane users have to wait even longer.

    The biggest things you need to avoid in terms of product is anything with glycolic, salicylic, malic, or mandelic acids. You also want to avoid anything with Hydroquinone or Tyrosene inhibitors... as well as serums that boast that they have Vitamin C. Keep with gentle cleansers... milky cleansers work best. In terms of moisturizers, it really depends on whether your skin is dry or oily. If your skin is oily even with the Retin-A, you need to use humectants... if its dry, you need emolients.

    Now that I've rambled far too long.... lol... if you have any questions.. feel free to ask. This is one area that I am "in the zone" on.
    Why is it necessary to avoid serums with Vitamin C? I've been using Retin-A in conjunction with a Vitamin C serum but I had no idea it could be bad!

    I use Retin-A about twice a week and my skin is fully adjusted to it. Would I need to go off it completely to use a mild-medium strength Lactic peel?

    My skin is really resilient if that makes a difference.

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    Paula Begoun (Paula's Choice) has a salicylate-free cleanser:

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    I've been using castile soap and Clinique Youth Surge SPF 15. Honestly I haven't seen much a difference (improvement or irritation) with the tretinoin. I'm gonna add Differerin in the morning and see if it make anything happen.

    And yeah...don't know about the Vitamin C thing. Vitamin C overdose maybe?

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    Castile soap? As in bar soap? Bar soaps -- even castile -- are the WORST for your skin. The ingredients needed to make it stay in bar form are also known skin irritants, or at the least, drying.

    Try water-based Cetaphil as others suggested, or the product I linked to.

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    Lets put it this way... if you go to an esthetician and you tell the esthetician that you are on Retin-A. if she cares about her practice and her license, she will not perform a peel. Depending on the state, it is anywhere from 1-6 months after discontinuation before an esthetician is supposed to perform a peel. The risk of getting a serious burn is much much higher.

    One of my teachers told us a story in class. She had a client come in who lied about being on retin-A. Since she was a first time client, rather than go all out on a chemical peel, my instructor used a milder enzyme peel instead. Within 1 minute of application, the client had 2nd degree burns developing on her skin. At that point, my instructor removed the enzyme and the client admitted to lying about the retin-A use. So yes, it can be dangerous.

    The reasoning behind the Vitamin C is that Retin-A and Accutane and products in that family work by thinning the skin and hyper-increasing cell turnover. Which makes your skin MUCH more thin and delicate. Differin isn't quite AS hardcore, but the risk still exists.

    And yes, avoid the bar soaps. If you are currently using Retinols, avoid any "scrubby" type of cream scrubs as well. Just use a gentle liquid facial soap, preferably without acid in it.
    !

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    Quote Originally Posted by TeddiB View Post
    Castile soap? As in bar soap? Bar soaps -- even castile -- are the WORST for your skin. The ingredients needed to make it stay in bar form are also known skin irritants, or at the least, drying.

    Try water-based Cetaphil as others suggested, or the product I linked to.

    It's liquid, not a bar. The ingredients look pretty all natural.
    http://www.drbronner.com/DBMS/OLCT16...LiquidSoap.htm
    I like Cetaphil, I just miss foam when I wash my face. It makes me feel like I'm doing something lol.

    Scary stuff, about the 2nd degree burns! It's crazy how stuff that seems so routine can really screw you up. I'm currently recovering from a "botox related mishap."

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    [quote=pixiepower329;1862464]I am an esthetician. Yes, you definately want to wait 20 minutes after washing. First, if the skin is even slightly damp, you run the risk of experiencing discomfort when you put the product on. Secondly, water changes the effects of the product.

    The generic and brand names generally will work the same (in regards to prescription strength topicals, that is).

    You definately SHOULD NOT use anything with Glycolic Acid in it while on Retin-A. Retin-A, Accutane, and other members of the similar family make your skin thinner and more prone to burn and injury. More to the point, after discontinuing Retin-A, most estheticians will not use any form of chemical peeling agent on you for 6 months post treatment. Accutane users have to wait even longer.[QUOTE]



    This is so true...after a six month course of Accutane I had a "lunchtime" peel at a spa which left me with a face that peeled entirely...I looked like I had the worst sunburn imaginable...The pain was so bad I was off work for a week on painkillers. The esthetician that performed the peel never bothered to ask what I had been using on my face or been treated with, and I didn't realize it could be a problem. Ladies, do your research and realize any treatment, no matter how insignificant it might seem, can have side affects.

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    Wow! Before I treat a new client, they have to fill out a form asking about their histories and it specifically asks whether they had ever been on Accutane or Retinols. I can't believe a licensed Esty wouldn't do the bare minimum to cover her own ass and assure her clients safety. How unprofessional!!
    !

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    Quote Originally Posted by pixiepower329 View Post
    Wow! Before I treat a new client, they have to fill out a form asking about their histories and it specifically asks whether they had ever been on Accutane or Retinols. I can't believe a licensed Esty wouldn't do the bare minimum to cover her own ass and assure her clients safety. How unprofessional!!
    This was at a high-end fancy spa too...last time I ever had anyone but a derm or ps work on my face...

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    Pixiepower, will I damage my skin if I use a dermaroller?

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    Featured Member pixiepower329's Avatar
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    Default Re: Retinoids

    I can't answer for certain.. but do find it ironic that they will sell an item for home use that I cannot technically use in Texas as an esthetician. Technically, esty's in Texas cannot use a needle in any form. Thats right, if you go to a PS office and he has an esthetician on staff that injects Botox, she's technically breaking the law.

    However, given the knowledge I do have, this gadget cannot be all its purported to be. Collagen is the reason for scarring in the first place, something went wrong with the collagen mapping during the healing process. So trying to "produce collagen" on an area that can no longer benefit from collagen seems faulty. But hey, I've no experience with the device.
    Now in your case, being on a retinol, I'd avoid a device that works by piercing the skin. Your skin is more delicate and more prone to tearing. Thats my opinion on it.
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    Default Re: Retinoids

    I use retin-a (.025) at nights and a 12% glycolic acid lotion every other morning and my skin looks really good. As long as you wear a strong sunscreen to prevent damaging your skin I think it is fine to combine them. I thought I read that retin-a is often prescribed before performing a TCA peel to enhance the effects?

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    My dermatologist recommended that I use vitamin C with Retin-A. It stings, but doesn't seem to be doing any damage.

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    Yes, Retin-A is sometimes prescribed before a TCA peel. However, TCA peels are only allowed under a doctor's supervision. An esthetician can perform it, but it must be performed under the guidance of a physician. Likewise with the derm recommendation. I speak only from the esthetic side of the fence. Under close medical supervision, there can be a combining of certain products.

    If your dermatologist notes that your skin is thinning out too much from the retin-a, he will have you to stop using the Vitamin C.

    Glycolic lotion? The PH on it is likely too high to be too damaging, especially at a 12%. I say that, because typically a glycolic peel has to be neutralized (its an AHA). So if its in a lotion form and doesn't need neutralization, it has to be fairly weak (the higher the PH, the weaker the acid/peel). The glycolic peel I use has a PH of 2.2. I also use a Mandalic with a PH of 1.7. Lotions will have some effect, but nowhere near the action of an actual peel.
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    Default Re: Retinoids

    PixiePower:

    So, an 8% glycolic lotion is actually stronger than a 10%? I ask because I was going to go buy DDF brand 10% glycolic face lotion. I need to get back on the Retin A bandwagon as well....

    Another question, does Retin A permanently thin the skin? Also, do peels permanently thin the skin? I know they do at first, I have undergone a series of "micropeels" with a diamond tome wand microdermabrasion, and 11% lactic acid peel following. I really love the results I've gotten with this, more so than a Jessner peel. My esty told me that the skin will be thin at first, but the peel will cause my collagen to go into over drive and as a result thicken my skin (as long as I wear suncreen of course). Is this true? Or will too many peels actually age you more in the long run by thinning your skin?
    Quote Originally Posted by AznExtasy View Post
    LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    You can say that again.. not just on here but men in general. Guys are so damn lame, the only way they can halfway make up for it is by opening their wallets.

    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Tools

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    Hi,

    is it ok to use retin A on the area around the eyes? thank you

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    Default Re: Retinoids

    No no... the strength of a glycolic is based more on the PH than the percentage. 8% can be weaker than 10% depending on the PH.

    I'm pretty sure the label on Retin-A advises against using it around the eyes, but I am not certain.

    The thinning of the skin with any topical is temporary. With Jessners, you are recommended to not do it more than once a year. I believe TCA's can be done twice a year.

    With my clients, I do a "peel rotation" based on what they are trying to achieve. Basically, its a once a week treatment and the series will last 6-12 weeks depending on the skin. Then its 3-6 weeks off depending on the skin. Here is an example of a 12 week cycle:

    Week 1-- Salicylic Peel
    Week 2-- Pumpkin Enzyme
    Week 3-- Mandalic Peel
    Week 4-- Blueberry Enzyme
    Week 5-- Lactic Peel (depending on skin tone... can't use lactic on dark skin)
    Week 6-- Glycolic or Salicylic depending on skin
    Week 7-- Pumpkin Enzyme
    Week 8-- Mandalic or Azelaic depending on skin
    Week 9-- Blueberry Enzyme
    Week 10-- Salicylic
    Week 11-- Lactic
    Week 12-- Pumpkin or Mandalic

    Then typically 6 weeks off. My clients also have a home care package tailored to what they are trying to achieve. I also include microderm on some of the weeks (but not all, I generally don't do the micro with an enzyme.. nor do I do micro on skin that is broken out)

    Another option that is seeing some incredible results is the Vibradermabrasion. I can't afford the equipment (yet) but I've seen it in action and the results are incredible. If you can find someone who offers Vibraderm (particularly in conjuction with the Seva line of products) I'd definately give it a try. The results I've seen are phenominal (as soon as I have a spare 14K for the machine, I'm going to start offering it).
    !

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