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Thread: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

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    Default more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    this didn't register on US financial media though, for whatever reason !



    (snip)The US Commerce Department has imposed anti-dumping tariffs of up to 99% on imports of Chinese tubular goods.

    The department alleged China had been selling its oil well pipes at prices that were much lower than normal.

    The announcement is the latest in a series of trade disputes between the US and China, which called the move an "abuse of protectionist measures".

    The move comes 10 days before President Barack Obama is due to make his first visit to China since taking office.

    He will be in China from 15-18 November.

    In September, the United States announced it would impose duties on Chinese-made tyres to protect local US industry, sparking the first major trade dispute of Obama's presidency.

    Simmering tensions

    The US commerce department said it has "determined that Chinese producers/exporters have sold OCTG (oil country tubular goods) in the United States at prices ranging from zero to 99.14% less than normal value".

    The department said that imports of OCTG from China were valued at an estimated $2.6bn (£1.6bn) in 2008.

    Several US companies and a major labour union had petitioned the Commerce Department to examine Chinese under-pricing of the tubes, which include a variety of steel and iron products.

    China vowed to protect its industrial interests and called for the US to give "equal and fair treatment to Chinese firms".

    "China resolutely opposes the abuse of protectionist measures, and will take measures to protect the interests of our domestic industry," said a statement issued by the the Ministry of Commerce.

    Beijing has filed a World Trade Organisation challenge to US anti-dumping duties on certain types of steel pipes, pneumatic off-road tyres and woven sacks.

    It has also requested consultations on the duties imposed on Chinese-made tyres, a preliminary step towards a WTO complaint.

    China launched anti-dumping and anti-subsidy investigations into imports of US chicken parts and automotive parts, in response to the US tyre duties."(snip)


    This new tariff will also affect pricing of steel tubes, pipes, rods etc. which are to be used in US stimulus construction projects ... automobile exhausts ...

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    with further analysis / commentary from my 'friend' Elaine ...

    (snip)"Belatedly, Obama is launching a laughable protectionist program that is very weak. Of course, China bats this aside with contempt and irritation. As this escalates, it will either destroy the whole farce of free trade/floating currency business or it will cease with the US surrendering to all our trade rivals. Of course, the problem here is, singling out China while coddling the other nations that are doing the same things…this will backfire on us. This is why having a consistent theoretical basis for our economic system is vital.


    English_Xinhua

    China’s Ministry of Commerce (MOC) said Friday it had launched anti-dumping, anti-subsidy investigations into U.S.-made off-road vehicles and sedans with engine displacements of 2.0 liters and above….

    ….The M0C announcement came one day after the U.S. Commerce Department set preliminary anti-dumping duties on imports of Chinese-made oil pipes, which was the biggest U.S. trade action against China.

    As a result, a 36.53-percent tariff will be imposed on oil country tubular goods (OCTG) from 37 Chinese companies, while some other companies will be levied a preliminary dumping rate of 99.14percent. "



    Step by step, we are going off this cliff but only with China. Obviously, China is being forced to act and the US is certain that Europe and Japan will want to keep the old status quo and thus, will encourage and assist in this business against China. But the danger here is, the US/EU/UK/Japanese ZIRP system will make this impossible. That is, all these nations can’t keep a ZIRP system going without the world’s biggest FOREX holder holding all this paper IOU money. Not to mention, buying the G7 government debts."(snip)




    Let me get this straight. The US gov't imposes tariffs on Chinese steel to protect American USW workers. China retaliates by threatening countervailing tariffs on US vehicles made by UAW workers because the US gov't is 'subsidizing' GM and Chrysler. In the meantime, everything in America that requires steel tubing and rod as an input ( including auto exhaust systems and stimulus construction projects ) becomes significantly more expensive !

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    On the other hand, it is possible that China is trying to undercut all manufacturing in the US, eventually, by dumping, thus driving all our plants out of business. That would be so they can dominate all US industry. Certainly it is no an inconceiveable strategy for them.

    It saeems this is yet another broken record. If your hated Obama administraton didn't respond to that, the conservatives, after they finally recognized the consequences of passive acceptance of the destruction of all US manufacturing on their beloved financial institutions, would be complaining severely that it slipped past them. Apparently the Obama presidency cannot do a thing right, if one is a conservative.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ..
    Let me get this straight. The US gov't imposes tariffs on Chinese steel to protect American USW workers. China retaliates by threatening countervailing tariffs on US vehicles made by UAW workers because the US gov't is 'subsidizing' GM and Chrysler. In the meantime, everything in America that requires steel tubing and rod as an input ( including auto exhaust systems and stimulus construction projects ) becomes significantly more expensive !
    I think this is a bit short-sighted. That is ONLY if the US now uses predominantly Chinese steel, which I doubt is the case. In any case it is not only the auto industry that uses these product types. Besides just how many US vehicles are allowed into China? More than likely it is and will continue to be Korean, and Indian autos until they get their own auto industry moving. Since they are no longer masters of innovation I wouldn't expect anything earth-shattering from them and it will take them a while to adapt to other countries' expectations, if and when they do get their industry moving. and then how about reliability and safety; I wouldn't expect too much there.
    Last edited by threlayer; 11-07-2009 at 11:31 AM.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    China is trying to undercut all manufacturing in the US, eventually, by dumping, thus driving all our plants out of business
    Well the key 'argument' here is whether or not the lower labor costs willingly accepted by Chinese workers, the lower environmental compliance costs accepted by the Chinese gov't, the lower energy costs made possible by Chinese gov't policy re coal fired power plants, the lower social welfare benefit costs made possible by Chinese gov't policy re social safety net spending ( or lack thereof ) is UNFAIR competition / dumping ... or merely effective competition.


    That is ONLY if the US now uses predominantly Chinese steel, which I doubt is the case
    Well, at the very least, a US gov't mandated increase in the end user US dollar price of the lowest cost option - be it imported Chinese tires or imported Chinese steel tubing - opens the door for US producers to increase prices on domestic tires and steel tubing. This doesn't mandate that US producers raise prices, but I highly doubt that the opportunity to do so will be voluntarily rejected !

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    You know as well a I do that the one and true China is the one in Taiwan. The butcher's of Tian'anmen Square should be removed from the UN security council and the one true China reinstated.

    Thank you Richard "I am not a crook" Nixon.


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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Quote Originally Posted by Earl_the_Pearl View Post
    You know as well a I do that the one and true China is the one in Taiwan. The butcher's of Tian'anmen Square should be removed from the UN security council and the one true China reinstated.

    Thank you Richard "I am not a crook" Nixon.


    They (Chinese government) are also the butchers of Tibet.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    We have many reasons not to trust them any further than we can throw a Chinese Junk -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junk_(ship)
    Last edited by threlayer; 11-08-2009 at 07:15 PM.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Well the key 'argument' here is whether or not the lower labor costs willingly accepted by Chinese workers, the lower environmental compliance costs accepted by the Chinese gov't, the lower energy costs made possible by Chinese gov't policy re coal fired power plants, the lower social welfare benefit costs made possible by Chinese gov't policy re social safety net spending ( or lack thereof ) is UNFAIR competition / dumping ... or merely effective competition.
    Let me ask you and others of the same ilk this : would you, if you had no job, be willing to move to China (free) and work in China under their system and in their environment?
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    ^^^ the answer to your question entirely revolves around what level of social welfare benefits the unemployed American was able to collect by staying put. At the moment, this typically consists of ...

    78+ weeks worth of state plus federal unemployment checks at $300-$500 a week
    78+ weeks worth of 'free' gov't subsidized cobra health insurance
    medicaid eligibility in the absence of cobra
    eligibility for subsidized utilities
    eligibility for subsidized rent
    eligibility for 'free' food / food stamps

    thus based on the currently available social welfare benefits, no unemployed American is going to consider moving to China ... and many unemployed Americans are not willing to consider accepting (close to) minimum wage American jobs !

    However, if that social welfare safety net were to crash and burn ... due to a state going bankrupt for instance ... then the present state of 'comfortable' unemployment would come to an end thus a whole new plate full of possibilities would have to be considered.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    Chinese Junk
    Chinese Junk; is that the led painted toys they sell US for our children to play with?

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ the answer to your question entirely revolves around what level of social welfare benefits the unemployed American was able to collect by staying put. At the moment, this typically consists of ...
    In your case that is all hypothetical though is it not.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    The announcement is the latest in a series of trade disputes between the US and China, which called the move an "abuse of protectionist measures".
    The move comes 10 days before President Barack Obama is due to make his first visit to China since taking office. He will be in China from 15-18 November.
    It is a well known fact the world will test a new president, Obama will be no exception. His test will be nothing like the test of our 35th president.
    Word for Word/The Cuban Missile Crisis.; When Kennedy Faced Armageddon, And His Own Scornful Generals
    In a 1956 Zedong called US a paper tiger. If he truly believed that he would have crossed the 112 mile Taiwan Strait and dealt with Chiang Kai-shek; he did not and to this day the “paper tiger” keeps them off Taiwan. It appears our new commander in chief is a traditional US “paper tiger”.

    In the Chairman’s own words.
    “In appearance it is very powerful but in reality it is nothing to be afraid of; it is a paper tiger. Outwardly a tiger, it is made of paper, unable to withstand the wind and the rain. I believe the United States is nothing but a paper tiger.”
    When Mao criticized Soviet "appeasement" of the United States during the Sino-Soviet split, Premier Nikita Khrushchev reportedly pointed out, "the paper tiger has nuclear teeth."
    "Unable to withstand the wind and the rain"; I don't think so.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Pardoning the departure from 50% economic content for the sake of principle ... let's look at what history teaches on the subject. FDR 'gave away' eastern europe. Carter 'gave away' Panama. Clinton 'gave away' central America. Now Obama actually gets a choice of which ally to 'give away' ... Taiwan or Israel.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Pardoning the departure from 50% economic content for the sake of principle ... let's look at what history teaches on the subject. FDR 'gave away' eastern europe. Carter 'gave away' Panama. Clinton 'gave away' central America. Now Obama actually gets a choice of which ally to 'give away' ... Taiwan or Israel.
    Stalin was our ally, it took awhile but things worked out. Carter only gave away the canal; his pardoning of the draft dodgers was a much bigger blunder. If it became necessary how long would it take US to resume total control of the canal? How could Clinton give away Central America it was not ours? You seem to like it the way it is.

    The US of A really doesn’t have any desire to be a colonial power; the Philippines said get out. The door did not hit US in the ass on the way out. So many sad women left behind. If Puerto Rico wants out they just have to say the word; they say Viva USA. Bush the dumber set up the Islamic Republic of Iran; I respect him for that.
    Back to the dollar; Obama is going to China not with his hat in his hand. He is going with a Louisville Slugger.
    Now those that want America to fail don’t know how to put a negative spin on this.

    P.S. FDR was dead.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ the answer to your question entirely revolves around what level of social welfare benefits the unemployed American was able to collect by staying put. At the moment, this typically consists of ...

    78+ weeks worth of state plus federal unemployment checks at $300-$500 a week
    78+ weeks worth of 'free' gov't subsidized cobra health insurance
    medicaid eligibility in the absence of cobra
    eligibility for subsidized utilities
    eligibility for subsidized rent
    eligibility for 'free' food / food stamps

    thus based on the currently available social welfare benefits, no unemployed American is going to consider moving to China ... and many unemployed Americans are not willing to consider accepting (close to) minimum wage American jobs !

    However, if that social welfare safety net were to crash and burn ... due to a state going bankrupt for instance ... then the present state of 'comfortable' unemployment would come to an end thus a whole new plate full of possibilities would have to be considered.
    We know the classes of benefits the US "welfare state" provides. Your answer is that if people can collect these welfare benefits, they would not move to China. I would expect that, even if those US benefits were NOT available, no one here would move to China, unless they had family there. They might move someplace, but not to China.

    (should have worded my post more explicitly)
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Pardoning the departure from 50% economic content for the sake of principle ... let's look at what history teaches on the subject. FDR 'gave away' eastern europe. Carter 'gave away' Panama. Clinton 'gave away' central America. Now Obama actually gets a choice of which ally to 'give away' ... Taiwan or Israel.
    In fact Israel is no economic asset to the USA. It is a dead albatross strung around our necks. However, Taiwan is an asset of sorts.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    In fact Israel is no economic asset to the USA. It is a dead albatross strung around our necks. However, Taiwan is an asset of sorts.
    I will never support giving up Taiwan. Our continuous support to Taiwan is one of the few foreign policies that commands respect from everyone except for evil doers.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    In fact Israel is no economic asset to the USA. It is a dead albatross strung around our necks. However, Taiwan is an asset of sorts.
    Israel is not our friend as they only look out for Israel. If Iran should come close to developing nuclear weapons they will get what Iraq got.

    Operation Babylon a successful surprise Israeli air strike against the Iraqi Osirak nuclear reactor the frogs sold to Sadam in 1981.
    In the late 1970s, Iraq purchased an "Osiris class" nuclear reactor from France. Israeli military intelligence assumed this was for the purpose of plutonium production to further an Iraqi nuclear weapons program. Israeli intelligence also believed that the summer of 1981 would be the last chance to destroy the reactor before it would be loaded with nuclear fuel.
    Israel use machines built in the US of A; much like the Mustang is built in the US of A.

    I can support that albatross believe me it is not dead. They do not beg they pay for our machines. I wish we could do as our founding fathers wanted, "Avoid entangling alliances".

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    ^^ some of that was quite confusing
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Quote Originally Posted by Earl_the_Pearl View Post
    Israel is not our friend as they only look out for Israel. If Iran should come close to developing nuclear weapons they will get what Iraq got.

    Operation Babylon a successful surprise Israeli air strike against the Iraqi Osirak nuclear reactor the frogs sold to Sadam in 1981.
    In the late 1970s, Iraq purchased an "Osiris class" nuclear reactor from France. Israeli military intelligence assumed this was for the purpose of plutonium production to further an Iraqi nuclear weapons program. Israeli intelligence also believed that the summer of 1981 would be the last chance to destroy the reactor before it would be loaded with nuclear fuel.
    Israel use machines built in the US of A; much like the Mustang is built in the US of A.

    I can support that albatross believe me it is not dead. They do not beg they pay for our machines. I wish we could do as our founding fathers wanted, "Avoid entangling alliances".
    Who are frogs?

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    ^^ some of that was quite confusing
    Haha good one

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    ^^ some of that was quite confusing
    Israel is not an Albatross.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    then it is a heavy anchor, but with the luck we have had supporting Israel, maybe it only looks like an albatross; they should have negotated their resettlement, or had honest help in doing so, in the first place.

    Per your post they violated Saudi Arabian air space.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: more 'stealth' protectionism ... US imposes tariffs on Chinese steel

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post

    Per your post they violated Saudi Arabian air space.
    We kissed and made up.


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