I guess, in general, I question who gets to decide what is and is not 'feminist.'
I guess, in general, I question who gets to decide what is and is not 'feminist.'


I use the term loosely. I believe I put it in quotes in my reply.
It just depends how YOU define feminism and how YOU relate it to your life and actions.
There is not only one type of feminist theory.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Stripper persona- Britney DeFaire @ The Jet Strip.
^ True that.![]()


sorry, how does that make you a feminist stripper? having to get a man to sort out your problems when some guy gets you to take off your clothes and doesn't pay you?, having to get a man to talk you around when your down to make you feel special? and then theres the all powerful owner who can decide whther or not to let you off a fee he decides for you being late, or who can sort out your money problems!
Thats the opposite of being a feminist, you portray yourself as a poor helpless woman who needs a man to get anything sorted out!
Unfortunaltely I find it very difficult, if not impossible, to be a "feminist stripper". I do consider myself a feminist, but I also recognize what I'm doing is not at all conducive to woman's rights. We are bought and sold as a commodity to men. I think the main problem is, a lot of women in the sex industry were successfully brainwashed into believing what we do is "empowering" and if you say other wise you are anti-sex. Well, if I'm against McDonalds does that make me against food?
I do what I do because I have to, because I'm getting back to school faster than working in fucking retail and some days it's not so bad. Stripping is not an act of personal empowerment for me...and most of the girls I know. It's us, so fashioned and programmed by the construct of patriarchal society that we no longer know the truth of what is best for us. Feminism gave me the CHOICE to strip, but that's were it ends.
I think it's just much more complex than feminist vs. non-feminist. It's never going to be empowering 100% of the time, and it's never going to be feminist 100% of the time.
Furthermore, from which perspective are we trying to decide if it's feminist? If the stripper feels she's promoting sex positive feminism by dancing, is that not somewhat feminist? Is it feminist that we're allowing the customers' perspectives decide what we call feminist?





^ More like, besides hustling, doing virtually nothing more than conducting their own sexuality and/or want to make money to take away hundreds of man's hard earned cash, and tipping out the people that helped them? Sounds pretty empowering to me.


^^^^thats a very rose tinted view!it doesnt always work out like that though does it?
getting your clothes off for fat sweaty man after fat sweaty man who try to grope and lick you and barely making tip out on a bad night - the stories are endless on stripperweb!



Yep. Never said it was always good. But you were generalizing every situation in which:
as though every woman who has gone through this feels miserable. I bet they don't let it stop them. Any woman who has the same view you have will be miserable and feel more victumized. I'm sure a majority of the women on SW feel that they have great jobs making a good amount of $$$ doing things they generally love. Of course there are bad nights, but asking people to dance and tipping part of that money away IS apart of every day Stripping. Doesn't make them 'unempowered'.


how much do you charger per standard dance?(hundreds of dollars or $20)
have you ever only spoken one customer in a whole night?(if so i bet it was a rare occassion)
Do you not pay tip out?(every night regardless perhaps?)
of course all 3 things apply! that is generaly what happens! so yes i am generalising!
maybe you will argue those things dont happen!



I know all these things happen, but you are stating them as though every woman is doomed to feel like an objectified sex object to men, when most women are happy to be merely conducting their sexuality for $$$. Doing something that comes natural to you and taking hard earned money from a man is empowering.
It's an EXTREMELY polarized issue.
The reason it's so easy to fight about this is that stripping makes every woman feel differently. Some of us feel empowered, some degraded, some used, some beautiful, etc etc etc.
Everyone has a different experience in the sex industry. Instead of fighting about it, let's just recognize that our diversity is what makes us women. Feminism should include women's experiences. All of them. What could be more feminist than that?



^ Thanks, Charlie! You're right. That's why you're a Moderator. You probably know better than most of us!![]()
^ No, no...I don't know better than anyone. It's just incredible how different everyones' experiences are in this industry. It's so understandable why we can become heated when topics like feminism get added into the mix.
Again, I'd recommend the book Jane Sexes It Up to explore how things like stripping fit into the feminist spectrum.
Another fantastic book to read is The Industrial Vagina, or another is The Johns by Victor Malarek. I love Malarek! He's a true feminist haha.
Anyways...I kind of feel like the next generation of women need to clear their heads on what is actually an empowering action. I don't doubt that dancing is very empowering for some successful woman, but at the end of the day this is an industry that chews up and spits out a lot of young, naive girls. I can say that, after working at various clubs in 4 different provinces, for 8 years, the sex industry is scary. I find sex amazing, wonderful, powerful and beautiful. But having some ancient dirt bag in Calgary throw loonies at my vag...not so much. You know what I bet feels more empowering than stripping? Owning the club!


Where did i say every woman is doomed to feel objectifyed??????
There's nowhere i have written "this will make all women feel this" or "this makes me feel this", i have just stated what happens in nearly every cub factualy:
women take their clothes off for small amounts of money for a standard dance while you state "most women are happy to be merely conducting their sexuality for $$$$" are they? or is that your personal view that you think applies to everyone??
you do like expressing other people's views on thier behlaf:
i have not stated my personal views on stripping AND HOW IT MAKES ME FEEL SO dont presume you know how i feel on stripping - you dont, just what happens cannot be viewed as (in my opinion)feminist. Where did i write i feel miserable and victimised? nowhere you just thought you would tell me thats how i feel - idiot!
if anyone has tried to make out things happen everynight that dont it is you
quote=Firewall;1888229]^ More like, besides hustling, doing virtually nothing more than conducting their own sexuality and/or want to make money to take away hundreds of man's hard earned cash, and tipping out the people that helped them? Sounds pretty empowering to me.[/quote]
I bet you wonder why so many girls start stripping with unrealistic expectations!
And as for tipping out people who helped you - most clubs impose rules on tiping out (not in uk) where you have to tip out people who havnt helped you regardless!
There are no end of threads on how girls hate dancing but they have to do it to pay for uni etc, is that empowering? women who hate stripping dropping their underwear to pay for food and accomadation while they better their education?
besides hustling? most of the job is walking around hustling - thats the hard bit! walking around and talking to guy after guy!
i could go on but you've obviously convinced yourself getting naked for a mans sexual gratification is empowering!
Last edited by xXmy shanghai sweetieXx; 01-04-2010 at 05:48 PM.




I guess its really case by case. I know all of the clubs in my region exploit the girls. Customers are allowed (it is legal) in the state of Florida to touch your breasts and the lap dances here are called "friction dances".
Customers being allowed to grope breasts and expecting a full on grind session, to me that is exploitaion. Now, if they are "allowed" to do these things, imagine everything else they try to get away with down here in Florida.
Its easy to say "I make so much money just to party with fat guys and old men all night" but the truth is that some of us get paid to be molested, pushed to our limits, and with dance prices as low as they are in certain areas, someone can molest you for $10.
It's been awhile since I read it, but I don't remember it being all that negative. Even if it is, it still brings up a lot of interesting points about women and "raunch" culture. I've often disagreed with feminist writings, but that doesn't mean I don't get something out of every piece. Actually, I'd be hard-pressed to name a feminist book that I agreed with 100%. But that's one of the benefits of being an intelligent, well-read person--I can take the points I agree with and leave the rest.
ummm I'm sorry, but why in the world would anyone WANT to be objectified? Do you understand the meaning of the word? It means you are viewed as an object, not a sentient human being. The person who is objectifying you views you with the same feelings they would have towards a chair. Yeah that's really positive. That's why objectification leads to apathy and violence.
Also I think i should point out that "sex-negative" feminism really doesn't exist. There are many feminist who actively oppose the sex industry, but the idea of a feminist opposing sexuality and a womens right to pleasure, is an archaic belief.


think she might be getting idolised and objectified mixed up!
well that makes sense at least!
Snowpea, the desire to be objectified doesn't mean one is confused about the definition of the word. Surely someone on a sex industry website would understand that sexual practices you don't personally share are not some bizarre freakish underground or pathological problem. As for the why? Probably the same reason people have fetishes for inanimate objects or have rape fantasies - both common things.
"Sex negative" feminism is alive and kicking, and you are blind or live in Nowheresville, Stickstown, Georgia, if you don't know that. A quick Google will tell you that there are plenty of people that identify as feminists and are against female sexuality being expressed. Yes, archaic, but yes, still going on today. We may call them crazy, or "feminazis", or negate their claim to the word feminism, but they personally identify as feminists.
Haha um...I live in Montreal and am currently taking women studies, human sexuality and psychology at McGill university. I'm very actively involved in the feminist community, so I'm pretty sure I know the state of feminism today, and while I'm sure there are plenty of women uh..."against sex" who may identify as feminists. It is very rare, and not an accepted view anymore. In fact, in all my school years, and community outreach etc..I've never once met a women who identified as that. Like I said, generally feminists who are referred to as "sex negative" are simply against the sex industry, the commercialization of womens bodies, and calling them sex negative is a way to slander them.
I know loads of women who are involved in feminism and also work in the sex industry like me.
The stuff you said about objectification doesn't even make sense. I highly doubt that the majority of women who strip do so because they get turned on by being dehumanized. After 10 years I haven't met many who do. In fact it's the exact opposite. Also I like how you pulled the old rape fantasy card. Because, if women fantasize about it, it makes it ok then, right? Nevermind that rape fantasies don't even exist, since the definition of rape is sex against ones will, and fantasies are completely on a womens own terms.
Either way with feminism you want to think with a mindest of, what is best as a whole for our gender? Objectification is not best. It is very negative. If there are a small amount of women who are turned on by that, that's fine! But let us not get confused with the idea that, it is all womens experience. The majority of women feel terrible when being objectified. Although, god forbid we say we do, don't want to ruin the male fantasy of how we love being doormats for them and their dollar!
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