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Thread: Rick's NYC Class-Action

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    God/dess Sophia_Starina's Avatar
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    Exclamation Rick's NYC Class-Action

    Uhhhhhh Ohhhhhh....... http://gothamist.com/2009/12/24/stri..._cabaret_f.php

    "Rick's has it backwards. Strippers are not supposed to have to pay to work. They may agree to strip off their clothes, but they have not agreed to be stripped of their rights. Fifty dollars per night, plus an additional amount for hourly wages, adds up to a lot of money very quickly, especially when that amount is doubled under federal law."
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I wish there was an "auto-like" setting that I could just have applied to all of your posts Sophia....

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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    i wish the dancers filing suit the best.

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    Veteran Member M3wlove's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    " illegal 'housefees'"

    maybe im not wide awake, but were they specifically doing something wrong with the housefees or is it just that housefees are plain illegal?

    i wish it were the latter lol

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    Featured Member Stripper Hacks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    Good for them. I'm okay paying house but it's when a club blatantly takes advantage of the dancers by nickel and diming them and using intimidation and threats.




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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    That was a strange article. It didn't really tell me much. For instance are dancers paying house, and many tipouts, along with a percentage of dances? Those clubs should be busted. Clubs charging outrageous house, and very strict rules, same thing.

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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    Does anyone know how it is possible to misclassify employees as independent contractors? is there a schedule at Rick´s, which makes the girls there technically fall into the employee category? Also, are house fees illegal?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    Does anyone know how it is possible to misclassify employees as independent contractors?
    Obviously the classification of exotic dancers as employees versus independent contractors is at the heart of this lawsuit. And the ramifications are profound ... not only for the dancers and for the club, but also for state and local gov'ts who are badly in need of additional tax revenues !!!

    Based on mostly anecdotal evidence from a number of such lawsuits ...

    - the IRS 'federal' definition of an independent contractor versus an employee involves a long list of 'questions' that all revolve around the degree of dancer freedom / degree of club direct control. In a nutshell, the vast majority of clubs cannot answer every single 'question' in favor of the club's dancers having independent contractor status. However, in the vast majority of cases, more than half of the 'questions' come up favoring independent contractor status

    - individual state legislatures, state Dept's of Labor etc. have the authority to dictate that workers in certain professions must be considered and treated as 'employees'. The IRS allows state law / rulings to override federal law via recognizing 'statutory employee' status. California has already arguably ruled that every dancer in the state is to be considered a 'statutory employee', and New York's legislature attempted somethinf similar this year as part of a proposed statewide dancer permit bill.

    - if the dancers are truly independent contractors, then it is 100% legal for clubs to charge dancers 'rent' for using club facilities. It is also 100% legal for clubs to charge dancers a percentage of their private dance / VIP sales. However, by the same token, if a club truly treats its dancers as independent contractors, then the club has no legal authority to mandate the payment of tipouts to DJ's, bouncers, waitstaff etc. And it is 100% legal for the club to charge a 'processing fee' for customer credit card charges, for club 'funny money' charges etc.

    - if the dancers are (statutory) employees, then it is NOT legal for club to charge dancers 'rent' for using club facilities. But it is 100% legal for clubs to charge dancers a percentage of their private dance / VIP sales ( up to 100% actually, since as an employee the club 'owns' the dancer's work product ). But it is NOT legal for the club to charge a 'processing fee' for customer credit card charges or club 'funny money' charges. It also is NOT legal for the club to mandate tipouts to DJ's, bouncers, waitstaff etc.

    - in and of itself, forcing independent contractors or employees to adhere to a work schedule is not really a determining factor, since it is the right of any brick and mortar business to require that both contractors and employees be present during 'business hours'. However, when you go beyond the basic existance of a work schedule and into specific hours requirements, forced work on a monday in order to schedule work on friday, fines for showing up late etc., these imply an 'employer's degree of control over an 'employee's work schedule.

    As to the intent of this lawsuit, as has been the case with many other similar lawsuits, the dancers are attempting to obtain a ruling that they are / were in fact 'employees' of the club. Once such a ruling is made, they can then attempt to claim payment of $2.95 an hour tipped minimum wage pay rate for every hour worked at the club over the past few years. They can also attempt to claim 'refunds' of past house / stage fees paid to the club for every night worked over the past few years. This could indeed add up to tens of thousands of dollars for some dancers.

    IMHO as a chain club, Ricks will put up a strong defense against this lawsuit since the club has so much to 'lose' financially if its dancers are officially defined as employees. While most dancers probably don't think about it, if a dancer becomes an employee it forces the club to start paying 8% of the dancer's income in 'employer' social security / medicare tax, to start paying X dollars per week to state unemployment insurance and worker's comp insurance funds on behalf of the employee dancer etc. In addition, it prevents the club from collecting future house / stage fees from dancers. And all of this is on top of the club having to pay out $2.95 an hour to each and every dancer even if she doesn't sell a single private dance or VIP. And with some of the new laws in the works, it could also force the club to pay penalties for failing to provide employee health insurance to its 'employee' dancers etc. These new 'employee' dancer related expenses could amount to a huge new chunk taken out of existing club income - and potentially make the difference between this particular club location earning a profit versus taking a loss.

    I would also point out that if dancers must be treated as employees, then all payments to those employees ( including private dance money, VIP money, and in some states even tips ) must be run through the club's payroll system ... with appropriate 'employee' taxes withheld by the club. From the club's standpoint this forces an accurate accounting of club income / cash flow ... and it also forces an accurate payment of SSI taxes, workmen's comp insurance premiums, unemployment insurance premiums.

    The bottom line on this and all such lawsuits is that the dancers bringing the suit will profit in some manner from the judge's ruling or settlement agreement. But typically, the dancers who are still working at the club after the lawsuit will wind up being losers. Again my best guess is that because Ricks is a chain club, such that an open court ruling against one club could serve as legal precedent for other clubs in other jurisdictions, Ricks will drag this out for a while in court and eventually settle without admission of wrongdoing, and without any judge's ruling officially establishing dancers at this particular Rick's club to be 'statutory employees'.

    Also, since this lawsuit becomes a matter of public record, the dancers named in the lawsuit will become immediately known to every other club in the area / state. While no clubowner would ever admit to 'discrimination' in not hiring a dancer who is already a party to a lawsuit against a different club, the 'real world' situation will undoubedly be far different. This in turn basically forces the dancers who are named in the lawsuit to continue to work for the club they are suing ( where they are legally protected from retribution ), or to leave town / leave the state, or to change careers to something besides exotic dancing.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 12-30-2009 at 04:55 AM.

  8. #8
    Member jadedlnn0cence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    Great response, Melonie!

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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    A same suit was brought on againstthee doll house in tampa. It became a class action suit with other dancers involved. I rcieved a letter from the lawyer but I was working at the club and declined to be party to the suit but nothing changed after the suit, there was money awarded but the club operates exactly as id did prior, same house fees etc.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    Quote Originally Posted by michele11 View Post
    A same suit was brought on against thee doll house in tampa. It became a class action suit with other dancers involved. .......... there was money awarded but the club operates exactly as id did prior, same house fees etc.
    This is undoubtedly the case of thee doll house's owners deciding to offer the dancers named in the lawsuit an 'out of court' settlement in lieu of allowing the case to go all the way to the end an a final decision issued by a judge. Had the case gone to a judge's decision, either the club would have won and the dancers received little or nothing, or the club would have lost and would then have to treat all dancers past present and future as 'employees'. By offering the settlement, the clubowners essentially avoided any actual decision on the matter of dancers being IC's versus employees ... thus they were able to carry on business as usual.

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    Quote Originally Posted by M3wlove View Post
    " illegal 'housefees'"

    maybe im not wide awake, but were they specifically doing something wrong with the housefees or is it just that housefees are plain illegal?

    i wish it were the latter lol
    Since the 1940's it has been illegal to charge workers for the privilege of working. It is also illegal to charge independent contractors for the right to work as well.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    Quote Originally Posted by lovelylola22 View Post
    Does anyone know how it is possible to misclassify employees as independent contractors? is there a schedule at Rick´s, which makes the girls there technically fall into the employee category? Also, are house fees illegal?
    There is a lot of legal precedence on this topic. As far as I know, just about every suit against clubs that treat their dancers as IC instead of employees, the courts found that the dancers are indeed employees and not to be considered independent contractors under the law.

    It has only been tried in state superior courts so far. I think Rick's may be willing to have the US Court of Appeals or even the US Supreme Court hear the case.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    God/dess Sophia_Starina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    It has only been tried in state superior courts so far. I think Rick's may be willing to have the US Court of Appeals or even the US Supreme Court hear the case.

    Was Sonia Sotomayor ever a stripper? Shes foxy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I wish there was an "auto-like" setting that I could just have applied to all of your posts Sophia....

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    ^^^ That's a 'scary' thought LOL !!!


    It is also illegal to charge independent contractors for the right to work as well.
    In point of fact, it is not illegal for the proprietor of a business establishment to charge independent contractors 'rent' or 'usage fees' for their use of the proprietor's facilities to further their own business activities. Besides strip clubs, this business model also exists in many other service industries such as hair / nail salons, flea markets, (renaissance) fairs, etc.


    just about every suit against clubs that treat their dancers as IC instead of employees, the courts found that the dancers are indeed employees and not to be considered independent contractors under the law.
    This is absolutely true ! In fact, I can't find a single state / DOL case where the court actually found that dancers were independent contractors. This is also the reason that, when push comes to shove, most clubowners resort to offering an out of court settlement to the suing dancers to avoid a judge's ruling being issued ... a ruling that would legally bind the club to pay all dancers $2.95 an hour minimum wage, that would legally bind the club to pay for dancers' disability and unemployment insurance, that would legally bind the club to pay the 8% 'employer's share of dancer Social Security taxes etc.

    In the few cases I am aware of where such lawsuits were allowed to continue all the way to the 'bitter end', such that dancers had to actually be treated as 'employees', the additional costs involved either quickly bankrupted the club or quickly reduced the percentage of customer money spent in the club that dancers were allowed to 'keep' for themselves.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 01-09-2010 at 09:02 AM.

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    Senior Member precise212's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    It's getting ridiculous...

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...XTPWYPtQTNgY1O

    Club paddles stripper suit
    Comments: 6
    By BRUCE GOLDING
    Last Updated: 6:41 PM, January 16, 2010
    Posted: 2:51 AM, January 16, 2010
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    Who knew nudie bars had such high standards?
    A Manhattan strip club claims two ex-dancers lack "sufficient moral character" to lead a $5 million-plus class-action lawsuit against it.
    Rick's Cabaret, on East 33rd Street, yesterday argued that alleged "misrepresentations and inconsistencies" by Sabrina Hart and Reka Furedi make them unfit to represent more than 200 allegedly short-changed dancers.
    The club cited a deposition by Hart's husband, Robert, in which he said she gave him her phone number after they met there, though her own Manhattan federal court filing said house rules barred her from doing that.
    But the gals' lawyer, E. Michelle Drake, called that argument "evidence of the defendant's desperation in the face of overwhelming case law holding that their practices are unlawful."


    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...#ixzz0cqNYP6Ph

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    Veteran Member loren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    So falling in love and getting married with a guy you met at work is prostitution? Didn't Michelle and Barrack Obama meet when they worked together at a law firm? I dated a guy that I met when I was bartending and when I worked as a receptionist. I don't consider that to be prostitution.
    Don't all strip clubs charge house fees? If those girls went into work and lost money I think that is sad and I feel sorry for them. Maybe they could offer a choice of a flat fee or a percentage of their earnings. I think a percentage of earnings is the most fair. Some girls might prefer a flat fee. That way there is no risk of losing money and it would mean that there would not be anymore lawsuits.

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    Member cometbus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    I worked at Rick's and also at Ten's Cabaret. There is currently a class-action suit against Ten's as well, for illegal charging of house fees and also for paying dancers in "funny money" and then refusing to cash it in for them. Dancers at Ten's would amass thousands of dollars in fake money that we couldn't do anything with, and it really sucked. I'm glad to hear that this is happening. So many young women get really screwed by unethical practices in the industry, and it's about time for a change.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick's NYC Class-Action

    old legal adage ... if you know you have a weak case, delay ... delay ... delay.

    PS I also have some worthless Tens toilet paper still laying around. How long has it been since that lawsuit was originally filed - 5 years ???

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