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Thread: Models...I have a question

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    Banned malayataylor's Avatar
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    Default Models...I have a question

    So.. I signed up to Model Mayhem around December 26th. I was just looking to get some pictures for my website but I've been bombarded with offers ranging from TFPs to Paid assignments(Yes I check to make sure they're legit, some are some aren't) .. I contacted a photographer by the name of Johnathan Yang because I liked his portfolio and wanted to shoot with him. He agreed and I was like "Ok cool" He told me to text hm any questions I may have.. I sent him a text message saying "I would like full rights to my pictures or shared rights" He sent me a text saying " You can have 100% rights to your images but In return I would like 20% of whatever you make or you can just pay for the shoot and have 100% rights but I will still have rights because I'm the photographer so we woud both have 100% rights." RED FLAGS went up immediately. I'm NO dummy. The pics in his portfolio are GORGEOUS but he sounds VERY sketchy.. Is this normal??

    P.s He also said I woud have to be able to do implied nude which is ok with me .. then he asked If I could pose nude.. Ummm NO! Im planning on submitting to penthouse and playboy in feb-march so yes I would like to shoot some nudes/implied nudes but not with this guy. ugh!

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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    How can you BOTH have 100% rights? Seems weird..



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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    Quote Originally Posted by MsClaireVoyant View Post
    How can you BOTH have 100% rights? Seems weird..
    In other words we'd have shared right? I know sounds sketchy.. he keeps texting me telling me to call him.. hell no.. I'm not gonna deal with that.

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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    Sounds very sketchy. Id try someone else.

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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    Wait. So you can pay him to have 100% rights... but then he'd still get 100% rights? I'm calling BS on that.
    I've been doing shoots for 4-5 years... and I've NEVER heard that.
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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    I've been a model and that sounds bizarre. I am very leery about guys on there because many either do tfp (which is fine if you are new) and others do "test shoots". Btw, be very careful with test shoots. NEVER shoot nude photos unless you are 100% sure on someone.

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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    I am not a professional model, but have paid for many photoshoots. It is my understanding that if I pay for them, the photos are mine. I wouldn't accept anything else. Photographers have used some of my photos to put on their websites and portfolios, which I don't mind. But he can't have 100% rights to do whatever with them. I mean, he can't be selling my pics to advertising agencies and then one day I see my face on a billboard for yeast infections, foot fungus or something. Too many photographers think models/clients are stupid. I would just move on.

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    Banned malayataylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    I've been a model and that sounds bizarre. I am very leery about guys on there because many either do tfp (which is fine if you are new) and others do "test shoots". Btw, be very careful with test shoots. NEVER shoot nude photos unless you are 100% sure on someone.
    Yeah I posed nude once with my photographer Bernard(love him!) and I own 100% rights to my images in return he used some of my pics on his portfolio which is perfectly fine with me. I've been getting alot of bullshit "contract assignment" inquires on Model Mayhem.. I've gotten better responses on OMP. I'll have to stick with OMP. I just want a couple of nudes for playboy. I've decided not to submit to penthouse (I spoke with my dad and his response was "NO WAY NEVER!" lol) I'll see..hell I have no problem paying for pics if I'll own full rights to them.. ya know?

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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    Quote Originally Posted by lilmisssunshine View Post
    I am not a professional model, but have paid for many photoshoots. It is my understanding that if I pay for them, the photos are mine. I wouldn't accept anything else. Photographers have used some of my photos to put on their websites and portfolios, which I don't mind. But he can't have 100% rights to do whatever with them. I mean, he can't be selling my pics to advertising agencies and then one day I see my face on a billboard for yeast infections, foot fungus or something. Too many photographers think models/clients are stupid. I would just move on.
    He had the nerve to tell me that I'd make 20% of whatever he makes with my published pics and still wouldn't tell me where my images would be published?... I sent him a text saying "No thanks".. No dummy here..I'll always do my research before I agree to some shit like that. I rather pay for my own pics .. and not have to deal with all that..

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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    I have also paid for pics and have full rights to them. The photographer used just one for his online portfolio which was fine with me.

    There are way too many GWCs (guys with cameras) out there calling themselves pro photographers trying to fool models. Makes me sick!

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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    Quote Originally Posted by malayataylor View Post
    Yeah I posed nude once with my photographer Bernard(love him!) and I own 100% rights to my images in return he used some of my pics on his portfolio which is perfectly fine with me. I've been getting alot of bullshit "contract assignment" inquires on Model Mayhem.. I've gotten better responses on OMP. I'll have to stick with OMP. I just want a couple of nudes for playboy. I've decided not to submit to penthouse (I spoke with my dad and his response was "NO WAY NEVER!" lol) I'll see..hell I have no problem paying for pics if I'll own full rights to them.. ya know?
    You are much smarter than I was (and several of my friends) when I started modeling. I fell for the scam of test shoots and am embarassed how naive I was. The only good thing is this was before the web was huge. I kind of try to warn new models on these scams because I don't want them to fall for them. Now when I model nude it's all photographers I am referred to (or ones I meet before I model). When I do non nudes I am more lax, but still aware. Now with the web there are many more perverts and scam artists out there.

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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    If you want, you can PM me about this. Since I do both modeling and photography I know a lot about the law on this.

    First, you can't share 100% rights. The reason is that if you wanted to sell your photoset exclusively then you wouldn't be able to because the photographer would still have rights to them as well - so you can't guarantee exclusivity.

    Generally when your photo is taken the photographer owns the copyright to the photo. You might pay him for a sitting fee, which is like paying him for his time to take the photo, but you don't own the copyright to the image. Then you might pay him for either prints or limited usage. Limited usage is very common these days. It's like the right to use the image for personal use prints or if you have permission for something like commercial print. Some photographers will even lease rights (at a very high price) to use an image for a certain amount of time... like 6 months to 5 years. Now, very few photographers are willing to sell the copyright to their images, and if that is the agreement the wording in the contract to state "copyright" needs to be there. If they sell the copyright to the image expect it to be at a very high price.

    Now, on a trade photoshoot you are trading your time for the photographer's talents. This gets really tricky because not all contracts are the same. Most contracts give more rights to the photographer than to the model, so be careful and have the photographer send you the contract in advance. In most of these situations the photographer still owns the copyright to your image. Usually the photographer's contract will state that they can do with the images as they wish (including selling them), but the model can only use them for his/her portfolio. Sometimes a photographer will give you the right to sell the images, in return for something like a 20% fee of what you sold it for. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but it operates a lot on trust and can become a problem.

    The other issue is that even if you pay a photographer to take a photo of you, since normally that person owns the copyright to the photo he/she can display them on their website or in their portfolio. They can't really sell the image for profit without a signed model release, but they can display the image for self promotion. Now you can pay a photographer extra to not do this, or simply ask them nicely not to.

    Getty Images is the leader in rights management for top photographers. Different photos sell for different prices obviously, but take a look at this link for a photo of Jesse and try playing around with an idea of a print ad to see what a photographer might charge to lease the copyright:
    http://www.gettyimages.com/Price/Pri...dp&BrandIDs=58

    As you'll see, they charge a lot - even for a photo of someone/something that isn't a celebrity.

    I think what you need to do is create your own contract and have the photographer sign it stating that he is releasing the image copyright and all usage rights to you, in return he will have the ability to use the images in his portfolio. This may be a case where you need to pay him and you'll have to decide if it's worth it to you, if you do that though make sure you don't pay full price since you are still allowing the photographer to display the image for his/her own promotional purposes.
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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    Hello

    Very good reply Kylea, I couldn't have said it better myself. As a photographer myself, I would never sign anything that gives up my copyright. BUT, I also have no problem discussing with a model how and where the photos will be used by her as well as by me. I (and most legit photographers I know) would also get approval from the model (aka: Talent) as to which photos get used (after all images have been seen by both parties

    I am also listed at Model Mayhem but don't put much stock in it

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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    Glad I could be of help. :-)
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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    sounds totally sketch. If I'm getting nude and they get 100% rights to the photos- I get PAID. If I'm getting nude and the photos are for my explicit use only, I either do a trade depending on the photog's skills, or pay him a small fee for his time and equipment.

    Models should always make more than photog's IMO, same way strippers should always make more than the DJs and managers- we're the ones getting naked and giving it away- not them. It's a lot easier to sit there with a camera and adjust lighting and focus than it is to pose nude for hours- i'm always sore after a long photoshoot.

    I like modelmayhem better than OMP, the novices on MM are easier to spot because on that site your work has to speak for itself. So many guys on there just have pictures of half naked and naked chicks with horrible lighting and point and shoot cameras. LAME.

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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    ^^^ I disagree with this. The one getting paid should be the person whom the photoshoot doesn't benefit or benefits the least.

    As for the statement about models should always make more than photographers... that's your opinion. When you have $15k to $60K in equipment (a good camera alone without lenses runs about $5K), plus you have to pay for business insurance, and each click on the camera takes away from the lifespan of the camera... well, I just have to disagree. Plus, if you think photography is so easy... it's not. It can take years to really learn the craft AND let me tell you - photographers get sore too. Photographing from a lower perspective can leave your legs sore from crouching down, your back will start hurting, the upper arm muscles after a long photoshoot are almost always tired, not to mention the sore spots on the hands from holding the weight of the camera. On top of that there is a lot of pressure to not disappoint the client and/or model.
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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis Star View Post
    sounds totally sketch. If I'm getting nude and they get 100% rights to the photos- I get PAID. If I'm getting nude and the photos are for my explicit use only, I either do a trade depending on the photog's skills, or pay him a small fee for his time and equipment.

    Models should always make more than photog's IMO, same way strippers should always make more than the DJs and managers- we're the ones getting naked and giving it away- not them. It's a lot easier to sit there with a camera and adjust lighting and focus than it is to pose nude for hours- i'm always sore after a long photoshoot.

    I like modelmayhem better than OMP, the novices on MM are easier to spot because on that site your work has to speak for itself. So many guys on there just have pictures of half naked and naked chicks with horrible lighting and point and shoot cameras. LAME.
    Hmm I like OMP better. Right-clicking is disabled on OMP... on MM anyone can steal your pic .. I'm getting ready to close my account. I'm also getting tired of stalker type unprofessional so called photographers.. ugh!

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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylea2 View Post
    ^^^ I disagree with this. The one getting paid should be the person whom the photoshoot doesn't benefit or benefits the least.

    As for the statement about models should always make more than photographers... that's your opinion. When you have $15k to $60K in equipment (a good camera alone without lenses runs about $5K), plus you have to pay for business insurance, and each click on the camera takes away from the lifespan of the camera... well, I just have to disagree. Plus, if you think photography is so easy... it's not. It can take years to really learn the craft AND let me tell you - photographers get sore too. Photographing from a lower perspective can leave your legs sore from crouching down, your back will start hurting, the upper arm muscles after a long photoshoot are almost always tired, not to mention the sore spots on the hands from holding the weight of the camera. On top of that there is a lot of pressure to not disappoint the client and/or model.
    Thank You

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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    ^^^ You're welcome. You know that I know! LOL
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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    FYI
    I'm currently looking for ladies to be made up as Zombies

    it's posted at Model Mayhem

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    Default Re: Models...I have a question

    Quote Originally Posted by VrBPhoto View Post
    FYI
    I'm currently looking for ladies to be made up as Zombies

    it's posted at Model Mayhem
    Cool! Wish I was in your area..I'd love to do that!

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    "I'll picklepunch you in your twatwaffle!"

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