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Thread: Vegas Vice

  1. #1
    Veteran Member loren's Avatar
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    Default Vegas Vice

    This is a post for any dancer who is afraid to continue dancing in Las Vegas because of vice cracking down on lapdances. They are no longer going after prostitution. If you get caught doing a lap dance you are in danger of winding up with a permanent misdemeaner criminal record. What they are doing is already having a really bad effect on the Las Vegas Econmomy and if people don't start complaining its going to get worse. Guys come here from all over the country and all over the world to celebrate bachelor parties and turning 21. Lap dances are a huge part of the economy in Las Vegas. Are people going to continue to come out here for bachelor parties if all we can do are air dances?

    What vice is doing is against the bill of rights.
    number 1 - guaruntees freedom of expression. Lap dances do not cause any bodily harm or public safety hazards. Topless dancers are supposed to be able to earn a living by entertaining the customers of the club with lap dances and dancing on stage. We are not sundays school teachers, we are strippers.

    number 4 guarantees the right of the people to be secure in their persons, papers and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures. Vice can take away your car and your sherrifs card. A sherrifs card is required for almost any type of work in Las Vegas. Threatening to seize your car and take away your sherrifs card, is a violation of this amendment

    number 8 states that no excessive fines shall be imposed nor cruel and unusual punishment inflicted. The threat of imprisonment, seizure of your car and sherrifs card, excessive fines, and a criminal record-- for doing a lap dance; is cruel and unusual punishment.

    If you are a dancer or a customer and would like to send an anonymous email to Mayor Goodmans Website use this link and click on the email button located on the right of the screen.

    http://www.lasvegasnevada.gov/Govern..._b_goodman.htm

    If you are a dancer who has already had her rights violated you can file an anonymous complaint with the American Civil Liberties Union

    http://aclunv.org/intake-questionnaire

    This is a link for a page that has the Bill of Rights which you can print and carry with you
    http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/cha...ranscript.html
    Last edited by loren; 02-21-2010 at 12:50 AM. Reason: incorrect link

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    Veteran Member MissMynxx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    I'm really curious where you're running into this.

    I dance in Vegas - and granted, my experience even to now has been with 18+ clubs but we get our fair share of Vice visits. Having been back the last couple of weeks to my old club (Deja Vu - and believe me, we had vice in there 4 times a week) and not having ANY problems, a club off the strip and having no problems - AND starting to look around for clubs to work in that are 21+, I haven't heard anyone complaining about this Vice thing other than you, really.

    I have many friends who don't use forums and hence aren't members of this site who are dancers here in town and they haven't said anything. Any other girls here on this site who dance in Vegas that can shed a little more light from a different perspective?

    I'm certainly not trying to tell you you're lying - but getting back into dancing, this is obviously of concern and I'd really like to hear more girls chiming in on it, some experiences with these newer rules, etc - because absolutely NOTHING I've seen lends credit to this. In fact, what I'm seeing is pointing toward quite the opposite. My old club is more riddled with HARD contact and extras than it's ever been. And the girls are still having no problem avoiding Vice.


    Also, just for my own safety - I know the laws about contact and stage performances, and also what Vice is legally allowed to do in and out. This sort of BLATANT threatening and overstepping of legal boundaries wouldn't be overlooked for long. There are a lot of really pissy club owners and intelligent dancers who wouldn't stand for it. The fact that I've heard nothing really makes me nervous. I'm confused as to how, with how much I've been in strip clubs as an interested dancer - talking to other girls and managers and bartenders/bouncers/etc, how I haven't heard ANYTHING about this.

    Do you have anything you can cite? An experience you ran into? Other girls who can lend to this? Because if this is how it is ... I'm not about to fuck with it.
    "The mood is important. You can't get a lady with force.
    ...sweet things alone are not enough. Seduce me with more fire."

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    God/dess LuckyOne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    I see more contact lately too but vice can bust you for anything. They can bust you for letting a guy touch you if he puts his hand on your leg.

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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    A year ago my hustle buddy got a ticket for putting her boob on a guy's cheek at the former Seamless. One night at the Rhino sixteen girls got arrested. It definitely happens and it used to give me a fucking nervous breakdown.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member loren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    Managers and boucers are not going to tell girls about these problems because that would not be in their financial interest. If girls are afraid to work the clubs won't make any money. My friend at OG said that last week 5 girls tickets for $800 not for prostitution but for dancing. Jan 8th there were 8 girls at ricks that got warning violations also for dancing not prostitution. I was told that they went back on Sunday and a bunch of girls got fired which means that they probably wound up with tickets not warnings. My friend at Badabings told me that on Jan 7th 3 girls got warning violations for dancing not prostitution and vice went back that night and arrested two of the 3 girls. Another friend told me that the week of Jan 8th 18 girls at the Rhino got tickets and I think some arrests. I also heard from another friend that vice went to the old Seamless now DeJa Vu that week and got some girls there too.

    Here are some links to official news sources about the problem

    http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/look-out...-63741267.html

    http://vegasblog.latimes.com/vegas/2...strippers.html

    http://www.watchdogwag.com/?p=5216
    Last edited by loren; 01-26-2010 at 12:06 PM. Reason: punctuation

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    Veteran Member MissMynxx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    Like I said, I totally wasn't trying to call you a liar. But for mine and my roomie's safety and peace of mind, some "proof" is always nice.

    I guess I've always known Vice are assholes - and I've gotten popped by them once too, but I beat the ticket. Fuckin' douchebags.

    It seems as I go back, I'm just going to have to be really freaking careful. Looks like I'll be looking for advice on how to give a new "Vegas Style" lap dance, because I've always done the real heavy contact types. Great. I don't think I'm going to let this discourage me away from dancing, but I know to keep an eye out carefully. Thanks so much for the information!
    "The mood is important. You can't get a lady with force.
    ...sweet things alone are not enough. Seduce me with more fire."

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    Veteran Member loren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    Quote Originally Posted by MissMynxx View Post
    This sort of BLATANT threatening and overstepping of legal boundaries wouldn't be overlooked for long. There are a lot of really pissy club owners and intelligent dancers who wouldn't stand for it.
    I am one of those dancers who won't stand for it. ...But there also a lot of dancers who are afraid and don't know their rights. That is why I am making an effort to do something and make sure that other girls know that their rights are being violated. I have already filed an anonymous formal complaint with the ACLU and sent an anonymous email to the mayors office. My friend called the vice department and made a complaint to the supervisor.

    "evil can only flourish when people stand by and do nothing"
    NOBODY deserves to have their future completely destroyed for doing a lap dance.

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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    Quote Originally Posted by loren View Post
    Managers and boucers are not going to tell girls about these problems because that would not be in their financial interest.


    The floor hosts at my club always let me know when vice is in the building...I just stay off the floor completely for about an hour...might miss money but I would rather not risk it. Maybe you should make a post on what to look for.... like the signs that you are dealing with vice. I personally have never encountered them...I would love to have some tell tale signs that might go beyond my common sense perspective

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    Veteran Member loren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    Quote Originally Posted by Pure View Post
    Maybe you should make a post on what to look for.... like the signs that you are dealing with vice. I personally have never encountered them...I would love to have some tell tale signs that might go beyond my common sense perspective
    They are not allowed to touch at all when you dance for them because that would be sexual assault. They are allowed to drink non alcoholic drinks or up to 2 beers. They will send cops in to observe and they don't buy any dances or make any busts. Then they will come back with other cops or send completely different cops in to make busts. Busts usually happen during prime time from 9pm to 12:30am. If you see a person standing in vip not getting any dances and observing look out because they will bust girls in vip too.
    Obviously when a guy says something like ---I'm tired of being teased on the floor what happens in vip? Or I'm looking for girls to go to my hotel. Or will you meet me for ??? after you get off of work. Those are the obvious signs that they are looking to bust prostitutes. We probably won't hear much of that anymore because it's way easier to bust girls for doing a lap dance.

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    God/dess Athenathefabulous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    ok i understand money from these tickets is additional revenue for the city, but at the same time, is trying to make strip clubs more vanilla really a good move for vegas? i mean if the clubs actually start abiding by the rules because the crack downs get to be too crazy, then it seems this would overall hurt the already struggling tourism industry.

    i mean people want to visit sin city for a reason.... and its not to get air dances.
    The best thing i have heard in a strip club to date:
    customer: we should get married right now! we should get a shotgun marriage!
    me: uhh... i think you are misunderstanding what a shotgun marriage means. A shotgun marriage means you knock me up and my daddy shows up at your door with a gun and forces you to marry me and raise the baby. You mean elope.
    customer: hmm... nah actually i will take the shotgun marriage. At least then we would be having sex.


  12. #11
    Veteran Member loren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    I wonder how long the "safe clubs" are going to be safe?

    I just read in the LV Weekly that they are going after regular bars and night clubs for amateur pole dancing, amateur platform dancing and amateur go go dancing. You know how when you go to the big nightclubs and they have the raised cat walks and go go boxes where female customers will get up and dance? Vice is calling that amateur platform and go go dancing; and believe it or not, they have made it illegal. You know how a lot of the smaller bars around town have a pole for the customers to spin around on? Vice is calling that amateur pole dancing and they have made that illegal too. It's a $1000 ticket per incident to the nightclub or bar. I want to know when LV business owners are going to start standing up for their rights against these anti business vice morons?

    http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/news/2...tripper-poles/
    Last edited by loren; 01-27-2010 at 11:40 AM.

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    Veteran Member MissMynxx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    I think I'm officially ignoring this shit.

    I'm a clean dancer, and I have a lawyer at my disposal. I don't plan on prostituting myself out - unless I go to Pahrump and do that shit legally. No dancing on poles in NIGHTCLUBS?! Fuck them.

    I'm going about my business like I never heard of this shit. My guess is it's a fear tactic designed to cut down on illegal prostitution. I don't prostitute, so whatev. This bullshit is NOT going to scare me out of having fun, making money, or enjoying my night job. Pfft.
    "The mood is important. You can't get a lady with force.
    ...sweet things alone are not enough. Seduce me with more fire."

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    God/dess Athenathefabulous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    ^^i hate to say it, but its not uncommon for cities to go after dancers who most people on this board would consider clean dancers. its often easier than going after the actual prostitutes.

    i dont know specifically about vegas.

    there was one area of uh-Ohio where vice was really active, they would regularly go after girls for really stupid stuff, like not wearing pasties, or touching a guys shoulder during a dance. i have heard about girls getting busted for their hair touching a guy. I even saw an article where one girl was busted for tripping during a lapdance and falling on the customer--- the customer was an undercover.

    and in uh-Ohio any contact once the top comes off is considered a form of prostitution and is a first degree misdemeanor.

    so just because you dont hook, doesnt mean you are safe from vice or are a "clean dancer" in the eyes of the law.


    just my 2 cents.
    The best thing i have heard in a strip club to date:
    customer: we should get married right now! we should get a shotgun marriage!
    me: uhh... i think you are misunderstanding what a shotgun marriage means. A shotgun marriage means you knock me up and my daddy shows up at your door with a gun and forces you to marry me and raise the baby. You mean elope.
    customer: hmm... nah actually i will take the shotgun marriage. At least then we would be having sex.


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  16. #14
    Veteran Member loren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    I think it is scary if I am the only person who makes an effort to stand up for our rights. I want other girls to be careful not afraid. I want other girls to stand up for their rights and the rights of others. At the very least send an email to the Mayor to complain about our rights being violated.

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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    I think it is scary if I am the only person who makes an effort to stand up for our rights. I want other girls to be careful not afraid. I want other girls to stand up for their rights and the rights of others. At the very least send an email to the Mayor to complain about our rights being violated.
    Unfortunately, based on US Supreme Court precedent to date, the 'rights' of an exotic dancer in various 'states of undress' to come into physical contact with a club customer are essentially non-existant ! Cities and states have been given de-facto carte blanche via the Erie v PAPS case and Sandra Day O'Connor's opinion to establish and enforce laws regulating the 'state of undress', the degree of club customer contact etc.

    Yes absolutely the enforcement of zero contact laws will kill the existing Vegas strip club business model. But what this really boils down to is local cops / clubowners / dancers knowing that they must break the law on a nightly basis in order to stay in business ... with a revolving door dancer bust cycle providing both needed revenue for local gov't and re-election kudos for local politicians. Unfortunately, it is only the dancers who bear the 'marks' of their profession being de-facto criminalized.

    As to prostitution, ironically speaking, when the legal penalties / legal 'black mark' resulting from a 'clean' dancer having minor physical contact with a club customer become the same as the legal penalties / legal 'black mark' for a 'dirty' dancer providing club customers with HJ's, BJ's, FS etc. it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that dancers have nothing additional to lose but a whole lot to gain by making the transition from 'clean' to 'dirty' !!!

  18. #16
    Veteran Member loren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Unfortunately, based on US Supreme Court precedent to date, the 'rights' of an exotic dancer in various 'states of undress' to come into physical contact with a club customer are essentially non-existant ! Cities and states have been given de-facto carte blanche via the Erie v PAPS case and Sandra Day O'Connor's opinion to establish and enforce laws regulating the 'state of undress', the degree of club customer contact etc.

    As to prostitution, ironically speaking, when the legal penalties / legal 'black mark' resulting from a 'clean' dancer having minor physical contact with a club customer become the same as the legal penalties / legal 'black mark' for a 'dirty' dancer providing club customers with HJ's, BJ's, FS etc. it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that dancers have nothing additional to lose but a whole lot to gain by making the transition from 'clean' to 'dirty' !!!
    Yes it's true that there is an endless supply of "sacrificial lambs" who don't know their rights. Even if they do, most will not stick up for themselves or others. Strippers are very easy targets.

    "Various states of undress" might not even apply in Vegas anymore. See above link regarding article in Las Vegas weekly. Vice made a law so they can give $1000 tickets to regular bar and nightclub owners for allowing customers to dance on raised platforms, catwalks and poles.

    I guess they did that so that strippers can't protect themselves by doing lap dances with their clothes on. I think most customers would prefer that instead of a topless air dance.

    I agree with what you say as far as vices heavy hand on dancing encouraging prostitution . LA used to have really strict dancing laws in the 21 and up clubs (alcohol liscensing cost $$$ so I guess they can charge more $ to the clubs that sell alcohol??). From what I hear LA has really bad prostitution in all the clubs out there now days. Even years ago in LA a lot of girls would be willing to prostitute because obviously no guy is going to spend more than $20 on air dances.

    Where can I find out more about the Erie vs. Paps case? It sounds like that ruling needs to be challenged. I wonder if there is a lawyer would be willing to do a class action lawsuit to overturn that?
    Last edited by loren; 01-30-2010 at 10:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    here's an interesting starting point re Erie vs PAPS ...



    (snip)"Does Supreme Court's Ruling in Erie Dance Case Pose Threat to Commercial Speech Protection?

    By John J. Walsh
    In City of Erie v. Pap's A.M.tdba "Kandyland," decided on March 29, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld an ordinance enacted by Erie, Pa., which made it a summary offense to knowingly or intentionally appear in public in a "state of nudity." The respondent operated "Kandyland," which featured totally nude erotic dance by women.

    The expressed purpose of the Erie ordinance was to combat the negative secondary effects associated with establishments like Kandyland. But the Pennsylvania Supreme Court struck down the ordinance because it detected an implicit purpose: to impact negatively the erotic message of the dance.

    The U.S. Supreme Court reversed and remanded in a judging joined by six justices. However, only a four-justice plurality joined in an opinion by Justice O'Connor, ruling that the ordinance was not aimed at the expressive content of nude dancing, "which falls within the outer ambit of First Amendment protection," and that the test of "intermediate scrutiny" announced in United States v. O'Brien was the appropriate basis for determining its constitutionality.

    If the ordinance had been designed to suppress expression, strict scrutiny would have been required. Just as the would have been service regulation O'Brien violated by burning his draft card was not aimed at suppressing his protest, but rather maintaining the integrity of the selective service system, the Erie ordinance, according to the plurality, was not intended to suppress the dancers' erotic message:

    "Put another way, the ordinance does not attempt to regulate the primary effects of the expression, i.e., the effect on the audience of watching nude erotic dancing, but rather the secondary effects, such as the4 impacts on public health, safety, and welfare...."

    The plurality cited the Court's previous recognition of such secondary effects in Renton v. Playtime Theaters and Boos v. Barry. The plurality rejected the argument that an ordinance

    As to the furtherance of Erie's purpose, the plurality stated that since crime and other negative effects are caused by the presence of nude dancing, a ban on such dancing furthers Erie's interests in preventing these secondary effects.

    Having previously found that the ordinance satisfied the third O'Brien factor that the government interest is unrelated to the suppression of free expression the plurality found the fourth factor was also satisfied: that the restriction is no greater than is essential to the furtherance of the government's interest.

    The ordinance's requirement that erotic dancers wear at least pasties and a G-string was found to be a minimal restriction, in furtherance of Erie's interest, leaving ample capacity to convey the dancers' erotic message.

    Concurring in the judgment only, Justices Scalia and Thomas would uphold the ordinance on the basis that it is a general law regulating conduct only, not specifically directed at expression, and thus not subject to First Amendment scrutiny at all.

    Writing for himself and Justice Ginsburg in dissent, Justice Stevens protested that the Court had embraced a fundamental doctrinal shift from cases like Renton and Barnes v. Glen Theater, in which the purpose of local restrictions to reduce secondary effects was limited to regulation of location. However, the plurality decision on Erie's ordinance holds that the presence of secondary effects justifies a total ban of a form of protected speech.

    There is little doubt that the plurality's view in this "secondary effects" case continues the Court's pattern of deferential review of local judgment about local conditions, and of permitting a local legislature to rely on prior decisions by the Court about harmful secondary effects in other cities. Intermediate scrutiny under United States v. O'Brien has produced this kind of result in a number of cases.(snip)


    In simplest terms, the Erie vs PAPS decision effectively separated the operation of a 'strip club' and any first amendment based rights of free expression that the club's 'strippers' may or may not have had while performing. Instead, the supreme court decision accepted as fact the conclusion that the mere existance of a 'strip club' creates negative secondary effects on a surrounding community's public health, safety of citizens etc. ... thus local gov'ts are justified in enacting all sorts of legal regulations upon the 'strip club' and its 'strippers' in the interest of protecting the surrounding community's public health and safety for which the gov't is responsible.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 01-31-2010 at 10:43 AM.

  20. #18
    Veteran Member loren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    In simplest terms, the Erie vs PAPS decision effectively separated the operation of a 'strip club' and any first amendment based rights of free expression that the club's 'strippers' may or may not have had while performing. Instead, the supreme court decision accepted as fact the conclusion that the mere existance of a 'strip club' creates negative secondary effects on a surrounding community's public health, safety of citizens etc. ... thus local gov'ts are justified in enacting all sorts of legal regulations upon the 'strip club' and its 'strippers' in the interest of protecting the surrounding community's public health and safety for which the gov't is responsible.

    ~
    So the cops are saying that lap dances are harmful advertising? Are they trying to classify strip clubs as advertising agencies and strippers and advertising executives. A lap dance is not an advertisement and a strip club is not an advertising agency. I am a stripper who works in a strip club and lap dancing is my job - not an advertisement. Forcing me to do air dances for customers who come to the club is forcing me to commit fraud for fear of getting a criminal record. Customers don't expect air dances in a Las Vegas strip club. Nor should they. I don't understand how cops are able to say that lap dances are a threat to the citizens of the Las Vegas community. Lap dances attract an enourmous amount of business to the City of Las Vegas. People come here from all over the country and all over the world because this is known as the number one place in the world to celebrate bachelor and bachelorette parties. Preventing us from doing our job will have a devastating effect on the local economy. Why spend money on a hotel if they can have more fun where they live?
    Last edited by loren; 01-31-2010 at 01:20 PM.

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    Veteran Member MissMynxx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    Apparently, the cops in Vegas don't give a flying fuck about the new law regarding bars, or they aren't all well informed.

    I was at a bar last night, and they have a faux-stripper pole. I jumped up there and went to town. A bouncer warned me that a cop had walked in, and he kept an eye on me, but ... nothing. I was fine. The cop - a Clark County officer - even tossed a dollar on the little stage thing. lol

    I understand that Vice are assholes and I've had my fair share of run-ins with them. I beat a ticket once with legal help, and was nearly cited again a few months later. I also know that it doesn't matter how "clean" you are - but like I said, this is not going to stop me from doing my thing and having my fun, OR getting my money.

    I will stand up and refuse to take the bullshit, I've sent a letter to the Mayor, and I've spoken to my lawyer to keep my ass covered. I think that we all should make sure we know our rights, know what to do if Vice DOES try anything funny with you, etc. But - we can't let it affect what we do at the core. At least in my opinion. I'm not about to see all the strippers get scared and run off in Vegas, or anywhere else.
    "The mood is important. You can't get a lady with force.
    ...sweet things alone are not enough. Seduce me with more fire."

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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    I don't understand how cops are able to say that lap dances are a threat to the citizens of the Las Vegas community.
    Based on a layman's interpretation of Erie vs PAPS, what the supreme court / local lawmakers are saying is that the mere existance Las Vegas strip clubs exert a negative influence on Las Vegas neighborhoods ... and arguably elevate public health risks and / or risks of criminal activity affecting the surrounding neighborhood. In reality, it is unknown how many Vegas dancers have communicated STD's to club customers ( or vice versa ) and it is unknown how many violent / drug related / other criminal activities have stemmed from Vegas dancers or club customers - but per Erie vs PAPS this is beside the point. The point is that the alleged public health risks and / or the alleged risks of criminal activity negatively affecting the surrounding neighborhoods empowers local lawmakers to pass whatever restrictive legislation they see fit to limit strip club / dancer activities. Again, the real world economic consequences on the club, on dancers working in the club, or on the tourist based economy of Las Vegas, resulting from the passage and enforcement of such restrictive legislation are beside the point.

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    Thumbs up Re: Vegas Vice

    Quote Originally Posted by MissMynxx View Post
    I will stand up and refuse to take the bullshit, I've sent a letter to the Mayor, and I've spoken to my lawyer to keep my ass covered. I think that we all should make sure we know our rights, know what to do if Vice DOES try anything funny with you, etc. But - we can't let it affect what we do at the core. At least in my opinion. I'm not about to see all the strippers get scared and run off in Vegas, or anywhere else.
    Thank you! And thank God for StripperWeb. I am so glad that I can talk to the people on this site.

    I finally decided not to let myself be scared anymore because I have done everything that I can to deal with this problem. I was really scared to work for the last 3 weeks. I finally had the courage to do my job and not rip the customers off for fear of the police. I did much better and I feel much better.

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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    alleged public health risks and / or the alleged risks of criminal activity negatively affecting the surrounding neighborhoods empowers local lawmakers to pass whatever restrictive legislation they see fit to limit strip club / dancer activities.
    ALLEGED is the big word. According to the constitution we are supposed to be Presumed Innocent until PROVEN Guilty..... not PRESUMED GUILTY until Proven Innocent.

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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    ^^^ unfortunately, where 'administrative law' issues are concerned, the opposite is usually true. For example, if the IRS claims that a dancer earned $100,000 last year and only reported $50,000 on her tax return, it falls to the dancer to prove her 'innocence' i.e. that she did NOT earn the additional $50,000. Same situation applies if a vice cop claims that a dancer provided 'extras' in the VIP room ... in the absence of a club security tape showing zero contact took place, the busted dancer has a 99% chance of being found guilty if she claims innocence and goes to trial.

    Yes the Erie vs PAPS Supreme Court ruling has as its central issue a presumption that all strip clubs exert negative public health / public safety influences on their surrounding community. After the Supreme Court ruling, some subsequent lower court cases were brought which attempted to force the local gov't to PROVE that strip clubs located in their jurisdiction actually did exert these negative effects to justify the passage of new local anti-strip club laws. A subsequent legal interpretation was made that a local gov't could meet this burden of proof by simply submitting previously researched public health / public safety studies involving strip clubs in totally different cities ... studies which conveniently concentrated on particular strip clubs known for 'extras', for gang member club customers etc. With such 'cherry picked' example clubs, it wasn't hard to document that some club customers contracted STD's thanks to 'dancers' providing bareback HJ's, BJ's and FS , or to document that certain club customers were subsequently involved in drug busts, shootings etc.

    In essence, this legal logic is akin to a 'class action' in reverse ... i.e. that if it was possible to legally prove negative public health / public safety effects of strip clubs in a few isolated instances, it was then legal to infer that the same negative effects exist for all other members of the same 'class' i.e. other strip clubs in other cities ! Or to cite another example, this logic is akin to charging all male drivers under age 25 higher auto insurance premiums on the basis that a handful of male drivers under age 25 have been responsible for some very serious accidents / fatalities.

    I would also add that the ACLU has backed away from this issue completely since the Supreme Court ruling effectively 'redefined' anti-strip club ordinances as a form of regulation of commerce ( as opposed to the previous restriction of free 'expression' ).

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    Last edited by Melonie; 02-02-2010 at 03:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    What they are doing is not just a violation of the Bill of Rights #1 Freedom of expression It's also a violation of the Bill of Rights # 4 the right of the people to be secure in their persons, papers and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures AND
    # 8 which states that no excessive fines shall be imposed nor cruel and unusual punishment inflicted. I included all of these bill of rights violations in my formal complaint that I made to the ACLU.
    I am also trying to get involved in helping to elect a new sherrif who is pro business and will not engage in economic discrimination against women. Laurie Bisch seems to be against the corruption that is happening right now under Gillespies reign.

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    Default Re: Vegas Vice

    Heads up to the Vegas girls.
    Last night I heard vice busted girls at cheetahs and the bust happened at midnight.
    If anyone has anymore information please post. They usually make busts for 2-3 days in a row and they usually do stings every 2-3 months.
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