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Thread: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    I knew it was only going to be a matter of time before more 'middle class' Americans would start to seriously consider emigration as an option rather than a 'nutcase threat' ...

    (snip)"Only a few years late to the party, publications like Forbes, Business Week and the WSJ recently ran articles on preppers, who they call the new survivalists. Just last week, Yahoo Finance featured an investment advisor who counselled that a well-balanced portfolio should include stored food, water and arable land. He didn't specify, but shortages are predicted so I suppose you'll want to take physical delivery of that stuff. Marc Faber, BTW, is giving the same advice and so is Jim Rogers."(snip)

    (snip)"So here's what you gotta do to stay safe in the US of A these days: learn how to grow and then store two years of food; buy and learn how to use a short-wave radio, back-up generator, firearms, and farm equipment; you also should raise livestock and raise and train attack dogs; and don't forget potable water and ammo. To this list you now must add nuclear attack preparedness (it's not just me sayin' so, it's a new Homeland Security category; no colour for the alert selected yet; I'm partial to fuchsia).

    But then I got to thinkin', the buying part's fun, even learning how to can wasn't bad, but I still haven't taken the food dehydrator or pressure cooker out of the box and that's because, basically, I really don't like doing these things nor do I like living this way. Maybe I should just move someplace safer, like Latin America. They've got problems too you say? That's true, but so far, no one's itching to nuke Latin America.

    History and Herstory

    This past summer my next-door neighbours stealthily, or so they thought, built a fallout shelter. They are immigrants from rural Europe and, despite the manor house and expensive cars, they largely keep to the old ways. They have a gut sense of what's going on: she through a belief in the bible and Revelations, and he through watching his road-building business collapse due to federal and state funds drying up. They no longer see the US as a country to immigrate to; it's a country to emigrate from for opportunity elsewhere.

    That sentiment was voiced recently by the CEO of a major house builder who thought that many US workers would leave the country if they could. As it is, he's seen large numbers of his self-employed, contract workers go back to wherever it was they came from. So many workers have returned to Mexico, for instance, that remittances for full-year 2009 fell more than 11% from 2008, with a month-over-month decline of 36% in October and 14% in December 2009. This compares with a 3.3% decline for full-year 2008. The trend is accelerating.

    Debt and Taxes

    After a miserable, retching death from radiation poisoning, what's the next worse thing that could happen to you in the States? For me that would be being impoverished by confiscatory taxes. All kinds of existing taxes are going up and a slew of new ones are being proposed due to, in a nutshell, increased spending and decreased revenues. You know what else? They're after individual retirement accounts again. This time there's actually been a bill introduced to, why mince words, confiscate retirement accounts and turn them into Social Security-type annuities, identical to, but separate from, the current Social Security scheme. Contributions would be mandatory. And another thing, if the health-care bill is ever implemented, that's going to cost you too.

    Hahaha, you say, I don't have a job, so who cares? Do you still have a house? If so, that's where the confiscatory part comes in. Your house could be mortgage free, but don't pay the taxes and that will be the end of it. You have more to fear from your local tax collector than from anyone other than the IRS. Local authorities can't imprison you, what a relief, but they can take your house.

    Without belabouring the issue, perhaps you've noticed the feds have done a lot of spending lately. In addition, all the GSEs have been nationalized and the FDIC is broke. The states are in even worse shape. Many can't meet day-to-day expenses, public-sector employee pensions are dangerously underfunded, funds for unemployment are exhausted, and their tax revenues, too, are down. Those that can't print, tax; those that can print, print and tax. Local governments will have to tax.

    At some point, somebody is going to have to pay for this. Who's that going to be?

    Patriotism, Misplaced

    There are a lot of people who say they won't go down without a fight; they've got guns, they'll march, they'll protest. They've already sent many emails and faxes to their congresspersons, so there. To them I say, and with all due respect and even admiration, go right ahead, but I don't think you'll get very far. About 50% of the population directly receives government largesse of one kind or another: food stamps, unemployment benefits, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, educational grants, and student loans. I'm sure I've missed a few; what do you get BTW?. These people are clinging to the status quo by their bloody fingertips. Take all that stuff away and I'm sure there'd be a violent reaction; but as it is now, unlikely.

    Starving the beast by boycotting the financial system or not going to work for a day, for example, is a good form of passive aggression, but why not leave the beast's lair altogether?

    Last Chance to Sell Real Estate

    So, how'd you like those fake, outa sight GDP numbers? Mish and Barry Ritholz both analyze the data and point out that GDP wasn't really up 5.7% for 4Q09, it was more like 2.2%, but up nonetheless. Released a few days prior, consumer confidence was up too. The stock market is hanging in there and interest rates are still low. If you still have equity in your real estate and want to sell, it's now or never. That's my opinion and what I plan to do.

    Selecting your New Domicile

    Here are some of my criteria for a new place to live: no nuclear-armed enemies (that leaves out the entire US); low taxes (again, not the US), especially real estate taxes (a big ditto); good and affordable healthcare and low living expenses (same); not essential to be fluent in the local language (OK, this one's in the US's favour); a large American/Canadian colony (harder to find in the US everyday); cultural activities and significant architecture; and crime no worse than a comparable-size US city.

    You may be surprised at my choice: the colonial cities of Mexico and, in particular Mérida, capital of the Yucatan. I'm going on a house-hunting trip in a week and depending on the interest from you, dear readers, as evidenced by the volume and intensity of both fan and hate mail, I'll let you know what I find."(snip)

    from

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    My brother is planning Costa Rica. I've had my eye on Trinidad for some time now.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    Based on Obama's recent State of the Union announcement that the GWB tax cuts are going to be allowed to expire at the end of this year, and given that there is near zero chance of another 'Alternative Minimum Tax' fix being enacted by the end of this year, and based on announcements / plans by various states to (further) increase state income tax rates, the proposal to tax dividend income at 33%-39% 'ordinary' income tax rates versus much lower 15% present 'qualified dividend' tax rates etc., the financial motivation for becoming an ex-patriate will never have been stronger !!!

    By my own calculations, merely by living outside the USA for 300 days per year I get to pocket an extra $35,000 or so in additional annual after-tax income based on 100% LEGAL US / NY income tax minimization on my investment income under 2009 tax rates. This will increase significantly when 2011 arrives.

    As of yet, we do not really know what sort of 'tweaks' could be made to 2011 tax rates. If nothing is done in Washington and the GWB tax cuts are simply allowed to expire at the end of 2010, tax increases would trickle down to 'single' Americans earning less than $50,000 per year and SIGNIFICANT tax increases would trickle down to 'single' Americans earning less than $75,000 per year. This would obviously be a hard hit to most full time dancers, as well as most strip club customers ! And that's BEFORE the effects of any newly enacted taxes i.e. a potential national health insurance 'penalty' tax.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-01-2010 at 03:12 PM.

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    Veteran Member Camillian's Avatar
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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    One of my best friends and his whole family are going back to the country they came from as it has gotten so bad here, they are basically jumping ship. (I can hardly blame them, I might leave myself if I could. well maybe not, but the thought has crossed my mind).

    A couple years ago, my family was doing really well, we worked hard, had a savings ect, but now, it's pretty bad. I can't find work, my SO is working more hours for less money (really no benefits to speak of), we are stuck with property we can't sell and being taxed half to death, we are *barely* scraping by. Top it off with high student loans, banks raising our interest rates (even though we are never late making payments) gas costs rising (and therefor grocery costs), and we don't stand much of a chance.

    I have to believe it will get better, though. Won't it?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    I have to believe it will get better, though. Won't it?
    That depends on who or what you believe I suppose !!!

    Arguably, it also depends on whether you are a 'poor' American or a 'middle class' American or a 'rich' American. 'Poor' Americans continue to see increases in social welfare benefit payments, and pay no income taxes in any case. 'Rich' Americans ( other than those dumb enough to voluntarily disclose their secret offshore bank accounts, anyhow ) can afford to take advantage of tax minimization opportunities ( from unreported Swiss bank accounts to tax free muni bond interest earnings to green energy tax credits ) while still residing in the USA. It is probably just 'middle class' Americans - and American businesses and workers who cater to 'middle class' customers - who will actually be hit hard by these tax increases.

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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    That depends on who or what you believe I suppose !!!

    Arguably, it also depends on whether you are a 'poor' American or a 'middle class' American or a 'rich' American. 'Poor' Americans continue to see increases in social welfare benefit payments, and pay no income taxes in any case. 'Rich' Americans ( other than those dumb enough to voluntarily disclose their secret offshore bank accounts, anyhow ) can afford to take advantage of tax minimization opportunities ( from unreported Swiss bank accounts to tax free muni bond interest earnings to green energy tax credits ) while still residing in the USA. It is probably just 'middle class' Americans - and American businesses and workers who cater to 'middle class' customers - who will actually be hit hard by these tax increases.
    Middle class. My SO has a business that caters to other middle class, which is doing horribly! We are thinking about dropping it all together since it is not making enough to even cover the costs of operation now, though it was getting off the ground 2-3 years ago, it has since tanked.

    His day job is a corporate one, but it seems like no matter how good he does, how many hrs he works, they just want more and more for less and less. (we even have to have our own insurance since theirs is a joke, doesn't cover RXs which is basically the only thing we need insurance for)


    I was thinking of dancing lately since I can't find a job and am no longer making money in my usual trade, but decided against it as a lot of what I have been reading here points to gals doing more and more for less as well (custies not tipping, lots of "extras" etc) plus as the economy gets harder and more gals turn to dancing, I am guessing clubs can charge more fees and pick and choose more (harder to get hired, more gals per shift etc).

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    well, your SO's business is likely to take a double whammy in 2011, given that Obama is proposing to increase tax rates on many US businesses ...



    Of course, tax increases on business profits are meaningless if the business can't turn a profit in the first place.

    In regard to private sector corporate jobs, as well as exotic dancing, both face a situation where the 'employers' are clearly in the 'driver's seat' ... knowing that if current 'employees' are unwilling to deliver more for less that there is a long list of new job seekers ready and willing to take their place.

    It is only in the area of public sector gov't jobs, and certain heavily unionized jobs, which have escaped the effects of downward wage / upward work requirement pressures. However, this is due for an imminent change as well as US states and non-gov't subsidized unionized corporations find it increasingly difficult to continue borrowing enough money to pay their employees in the absence of positive tax revenues / positive business profits ...




    the 'gold foil hat' crowd would undoubtedly tell you that there is an increasing degree of 'moral hazard' in regard to 'middle class' Americans continuing to bust their asses ... only to see the 'fruits' of their additional labors being sucked up by higher tax rates, rising prices for necessities being driven by record breaking levels of US gov't money 'printing', etc. At some point, some number of 'middle class' Americans will figure out that their actual standard of living would be no worse if they simply walked away from their houses / mortgages, simply found a reason to be fired from their jobs ( and collecting 72 weeks worth of unemployment checks plus MedicAid benefits plus Food Stamp benefits ) etc.

    But at that point, when the tax revenues derived from those former ass-busting 'middle class' workers stop coming in, and the unemployment / food stamp / medicaid checks can no longer be written because US states can no longer borrow any more money with which to fund those checks, the whole social fabric of America has the potential for implosion. And this is likely to happen at the very same time that state and local gov'ts are laying off police and prison guards by the tens of thousands ! If and when that happens, I'll be very glad that I'm located 'south of the border' - which conveniently brings us full circle back to the original topic of this thread !

    Of course, there are many others expressing the opinion that 'the worst is over', and that things will get better from here. Who knows, they could be right !!!

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-01-2010 at 04:07 PM.

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    Veteran Member Camillian's Avatar
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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    well, your SO's business is likely to take a double whammy in 2011, given that Obama is proposing to increase tax rates on many US businesses ...

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...TENMi9lY&pos=1

    Of course, tax increases on business profits are meaningless if the business can't turn a profit in the first place.

    In regard to private sector corporate jobs, as well as exotic dancing, both face a situation where the 'employers' are clearly in the 'driver's seat' ... knowing that if current 'employees' are unwilling to deliver more for less that there is a long list of new job seekers ready and willing to take their place.

    It is only in the area of public sector gov't jobs, and certain heavily unionized jobs, which have escaped the effects of downward wage / upward work requirement pressures. However, this is due for an imminent change as well as US states and non-gov't subsidized unionized corporations find it increasingly difficult to continue borrowing enough money to pay their employees in the absence of positive tax revenues / positive business profits ...

    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogsp...yc-nevada.html
    I don't think we will be keeping the business past this year, as it is costing money from his day job (since the business in making no money but costing us money to run) which we are now needing for gas and food and prop taxes/expenses.

    I wish I could go back in time and tell myself *not* to buy property. I always thought it was a smart and responsible thing to do, a good investment (we bought very inexpensive, reasonably priced homes that we could fix up and sell). But between upkeep, taxes, insurance, interest on the loans, etc, plus the market tanking, it's the houses that are really killing us now, keeping him tied to his job and making it impossible for us to move elsewhere (where I could make money too)

    There really is no such thing as easy money anymore. My parents had it pretty damn good from where I stand. My child will probably have it much worse then me if things keep going in the direction they are going.

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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    I wish I could go back in time and tell myself *not* to buy property. I always thought it was a smart and responsible thing to do, a good investment (we bought very inexpensive, reasonably priced homes that we could fix up and sell). But between upkeep, taxes, insurance, interest on the loans, etc, plus the market tanking, it's the houses that are really killing us now, keeping him tied to his job and making it impossible for us to move elsewhere (where I could make money too)
    This is off topic but an important topic in and of itself :

    Well for sure property taxes are going to be ratcheted up by local gov'ts to help them fund increasing social welfare costs. For sure mortgage interest rates are going to be ratcheted up by banks faced with new taxes and regulations preventing them from earning money by 'unconventional' means ( i.e. proprietary trading ). For sure insurance costs are going to rise as police protection levels decline with layoffs and more 'criminals' are released due to prison guard / prison budget cutbacks. And just as surely, the number of 'qualified' property buyers will decline with each passing month ( rich people don't want to buy inexpensive housing in less than exclusive neighborhoods, and people who are comfortable living in less than exclusive neighborhoods no longer have the income / credit to qualify for a mortgage).

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    Veteran Member Camillian's Avatar
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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    the 'gold foil hat' crowd would undoubtedly tell you that there is an increasing degree of 'moral hazard' in regard to 'middle class' Americans continuing to bust their asses ... only to see the 'fruits' of their additional labors being sucked up by higher tax rates, rising prices for necessities being driven by record breaking levels of US gov't money 'printing', etc. At some point, some number of 'middle class' Americans will figure out that their actual standard of living would be no worse if they simply walked away from their houses / mortgages, simply found a reason to be fired from their jobs ( and collecting 72 weeks worth of unemployment checks plus MedicAid benefits plus Food Stamp benefits ) etc.

    But at that point, when the tax revenues derived from those former ass-busting 'middle class' workers stop coming in, and the unemployment / food stamp / medicaid checks can no longer be written because US states can no longer borrow any more money with which to fund those checks, the whole social fabric of America has the potential for implosion. And this is likely to happen at the very same time that state and local gov'ts are laying off police and prison guards by the tens of thousands ! If and when that happens, I'll be very glad that I'm located 'south of the border' - which conveniently brings us full circle back to the original topic of this thread !

    Of course, there are many others expressing the opinion that 'the worst is over', and that things will get better from here. Who knows, they could be right !!!

    ~
    I do feel like our quality of living has gone down with our income raising and buying property. I wish we could just walk away but I really don't see how that's possible.

    I always thought there was this magic income # "If we can make $XX,XXX per year we will be able to accomplish our dreams". Boy was I wrong. That number would really have to be MUCH higher then I originally thought.

    Eventually, we want to be "financially free" by living on a boat "off the hook". Using solar power and fishing etc we can live very cheaply! We have been working on this for 8 years. Trying to build passive income (which we have not been able to accomplish, I might add) We bought the houses in order to get enough equity to get a boat. Without being able to sell the houses, I have no idea how we can possibly do any of it now.

    Makes me mad cause we don't live it up. We spend money on nothing unnecessary. We live very frugally trying to build a solid furture, yet still can't seem to make it.

    If walking away was an option, I'd be considering it. My SO is pretty miserable.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    If walking away was an option, I'd be considering it. My SO is pretty miserable
    ^^^ Seriously, have you spoken with an attorney / accountant about the possibility of simply 'walking away' from your spec real estate holdings ASAP to cut your losses before newly enacted legislation prevents this from being possible ?






    Makes me mad cause we don't live it up. We spend money on nothing unnecessary. We live very frugally trying to build a solid furture, yet still can't seem to make it.
    this is the result of the growing 'moral hazard' situation befalling the ass-busting American 'middle class' versus the semi-idle American 'poor' ... who really don't have much separation anymore in terms of de-facto standard of living.

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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    It is only in the area of public sector gov't jobs, and certain heavily unionized jobs, which have escaped the effects of downward wage / upward work requirement pressures. However, this is due for an imminent change as well as US states and non-gov't subsidized unionized corporations find it increasingly difficult to continue borrowing enough money to pay their employees in the absence of positive tax revenues / positive business profits ~
    Right. Just look at how much cops are paid in Mexico. Evidently they make too little to earn a decent living, so they resort to bribes to supplement their income. Poor government will = poor pay for government workers. The tipping point will be when the US loses its status as world reserve currency and China won't lend us money any longer.

    Obama says he wants to double US exports to improve the jobless situation, and that China needs to revalue their currency by 40% to help with this. Sure, the jobless situation may improve with such a currency revaluation, but you've just substantially increased the cost of living and impoverished the rest of the population by making everything at Wal-Mart cost 40% more expensive, not to mention that oil prices will become unaffordable, and this will tend to hurt real estate prices where long commutes are required. This is why Riverside, CA real estate was one of the worst affected areas in the country besides Las Vegas or Miami.

    Government spending needs to decrease, but politicians can't do that because so many people are sucking on the government titty entitlement programs.

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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    Quote Originally Posted by Camillian View Post
    One of my best friends and his whole family are going back to the country they came from as it has gotten so bad here, they are basically jumping ship. (I can hardly blame them, I might leave myself if I could. well maybe not, but the thought has crossed my mind).
    This is what my family is in the process of doing. My father moved us here 5 years ago on an E-Visa, but his business took a big hit with the economy. My parents spent everything they had to bring my brother and I to the states where we could take advantage of the great education system and live a better life, but things are worse here than where we're from.

    I'm moving back in May, and my family will follow suit within the next year, depending on how soon they can see off all their property, business paraphernalia. Very sad.



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    Veteran Member Camillian's Avatar
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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ Seriously, have you spoken with an attorney / accountant about the possibility of simply 'walking away' from your spec real estate holdings ASAP to cut your losses before newly enacted legislation prevents this from being possible ?

    http://www.thebigmoney.com/articles/...head-walk-away

    http://payorgo.com/




    this is the result of the growing 'moral hazard' situation befalling the ass-busting American 'middle class' versus the semi-idle American 'poor' ... who really don't have much separation anymore in terms of de-facto standard of living.
    I will have to get some numbers together and see if it would be worth it. Thanks for that calculator!

    I'm not sure that we are that bad....yet at least (as bad off as others). I did buy below market at the time, but it was during the height of the boom. We would have been fine if our jobs had stayed consistent. Well and if we could have sold. We only planned to hold on to this house for 3 years and now we are going on 5.

    I also plan to try to refinance maybe next month (just the house I live in). I am assuming they will do an appraisal and I can figure out the real value of my home and know how in the red we really are. If I can get a tiny bit of money together I may be able to rent my house out and find a cheap apt in the city (so we can at least save on gas, which is killings as my SO commutes 2-3 hrs a day)

    One of the reasons I am upside down, is because of the cost of prop tax, insurance costs, interest and repairs (previous owners of the house I live in didn't disclose a serious flooding issue, which has cost us a lot in repairs over the years to fix, and we are still working on it).

    My rental I can sit on indefinitely as long as I keep it occupied/can find another renter in time (hoping to have all the repairs made from the previous renter) and have a new renter in there by March 1st. We will see. But it's been scary this month to lose our renter and realize how close we really are to even more serious trouble!

    I really don't want to screw up our credit unless we *have* to (like he loses his job) because we will never be able to buy a boat to live on (and live our dream of living green, travel and less financial responsibility)

    If it come to that, I will not feel bad about it, but man, all the work and time and money I have in to these homes (I have done a ton of remodeling and fixed so much) I would hate to throw it all away (especially since they are 100% of our investments right now)


    You are a wealth of information And have given me some things to consider.
    Last edited by Camillian; 02-01-2010 at 05:19 PM. Reason: added

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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    It all depends on how you manage your lifestyle. Today I am working at managing my income to just above poverty levels. This doesn't mean that I am poor, but my only cash earnings are quite low. However, this doesn't mean I have to live like a poor person. I am connected to several barter groups that exchange goods and services based on current market value. For instance, I'm dog sitting for an MD, Dog sitting value $40/ day, Dr office visit at $125. My husband built a porch for a salon owner, porch build $2000 in exchange for that amount in salon services for our family.

    I grow a garden every year, but this year I started growing herbs indoors to keep a fresh supply on hand. Everyone loves coming to dinner at my house, and I spend very little on food. I just joined a ladies barter group that exchanges things like clothes and fashion accessories as well babysitting services and any other barter service you can think of from running kids to practices to tutors to house keeping.

    It is actually working out excellently well. I have a new group of friends to socialize with as well as access to "free" stuff. This makes it a lot easier to live on much less but still maintain a lifestyle of a standard middle class American.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    It all depends on how you manage your lifestyle. Today I am working at managing my income to just above poverty levels. This doesn't mean that I am poor, but my only cash earnings are quite low. However, this doesn't mean I have to live like a poor person. I am connected to several barter groups that exchange goods and services based on current market value. For instance, I'm dog sitting for an MD, Dog sitting value $40/ day, Dr office visit at $125. My husband built a porch for a salon owner, porch build $2000 in exchange for that amount in salon services for our family.

    I grow a garden every year, but this year I started growing herbs indoors to keep a fresh supply on hand. Everyone loves coming to dinner at my house, and I spend very little on food. I just joined a ladies barter group that exchanges things like clothes and fashion accessories as well babysitting services and any other barter service you can think of from running kids to practices to tutors to house keeping.

    It is actually working out excellently well. I have a new group of friends to socialize with as well as access to "free" stuff. This makes it a lot easier to live on much less but still maintain a lifestyle of a standard middle class American.
    I love to barter And do when I can but it's much harder when you don't live in a major city. I'm at the point now that all I have to barter is myself (and do as everthing I own is falling apart now.

    The basics eat up all our income, so we just don't spend, period.

    I would love to have an herb garden though, that would be awesome! I wonder if I could keep my kitty out of it, ha ha.

    Are any of these barter groups on line? Or are they like an in person thing?
    Last edited by Camillian; 02-01-2010 at 05:35 PM.

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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    You may be surprised at my choice: the colonial cities of Mexico and, in particular Mérida, capital of the Yucatan. I'm going on a house-hunting trip in a week and depending on the interest from you, dear readers, as evidenced by the volume and intensity of both fan and hate mail, I'll let you know what I find."(snip)

    from
    NO, NO, NO, NO!

    The Mexican Constitution forbids foreigners from owning property. At best you will get a 100 year lease and after you have done all the improvement and made the land profitable your Grandkids turn it back over to the owner.

    There a better places to go.

  22. #18
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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    ^^^ Agreed that Mexican property ownership laws for foreign nationals suck. However, as you point out, there are other countries which are close to Mexico's southern border that have no such property ownership restrictions. Some of them even speak more English than Spanish too !!!

    However, in fairness, even US property ownership law is subject to a 'tiny little detail' that the author of the OP has mentioned. If you lose your job, and if local gov't raises your property taxes sky high, even if you own your home debt free this is no guarantee that you can continue to own it if you fail to pay the property taxes.

    I suspect that the author's reference to the proximity of Mexican provincial capital cities ( and there are many of them besides Merida ) has more to do with their offering most of the amenities that 'third world' countries typically lack ... such as world class hospitals, such as 'affordable' imported consumer goods of decent quality ( i.e. WalMarts ), such as fully equipped auto dealerships etc. ... things that factor fairly high on American ex-pat's list of occasional 'necessities'. Of course one doesn't actually need to live in one of the Mexican provincial capitals ( or in Mexico ) to take occasional advantage of these offerings - one merely needs to live within 'driving distance'.


    but things are worse here than where we're from.

    I'm moving back in May, and my family will follow suit within the next year, depending on how soon they can see off all their property, business paraphernalia. Very sad.
    Obviously I'm sorry that the USA is no longer the 'land of opportunity' it once was. However, in fairness, you and your family have an advantage that the vast majority of Americans sadly lack. You and your family can 'see' what's happening in today's American economy with eyes that have also seen life in other economies / countries ... and can thus deduce that remaining in America is a 'losing proposition' from the standpoint of other global alternatives. In contrast, most Americans have such a US centric viewpoint that they don't yet accept that the USA has already ( and probably permanently ) changed to the point where the 'land of opportunity' paradigm no longer applies ... for immigrants or for themselves ! And most Americans have so little first-hand knowledge about the rest of the world that they will arbitrarily write off the potential advantages of emigration while they are still legally and financially able to do so ... thus they will likely be 'stuck' dealing with whatever future US economic / political / social changes actually occur.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-02-2010 at 04:42 AM.

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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    But where is it better? It seems that it's hard to make a decent living just about anywhere in the world!

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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    ^^^ that depends on your method of 'making a decent living'.

    Example ... for young professionals, there are oil and gas / construction / financial job opportunities all over the world.

    Example ... for older people whose method of 'making a decent living' is maximizing returns on their investment 'nest egg', a number of tax haven countries exist.

  25. #21
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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    and any country outside of Western Europe will probably have lower 'middle class' income tax rates ...


    (snip)"In the 2010 budget tabled by President Barack Obama on Monday, the White House wants to let billions of dollars in tax breaks expire by the end of the year -- effectively a tax hike by stealth.

    While the administration is focusing its proposal on eliminating tax breaks for individuals who earn $250,000 a year or more, middle-class families will face a slew of these backdoor increases.

    The targeted tax provisions were enacted under the Bush administration's Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001. Among other things, the law lowered individual tax rates, slashed taxes on capital gains and dividends, and steadily scaled back the estate tax to zero in 2010.

    If the provisions are allowed to expire on December 31, the top-tier personal income tax rate will rise to 39.6 percent from 35 percent. But lower-income families will pay more as well: the 25 percent tax bracket will revert back to 28 percent; the 28 percent bracket will increase to 31 percent; and the 33 percent bracket will increase to 36 percent. The special 10 percent bracket is eliminated.

    Investors will pay more on their earnings next year as well, with the tax on dividends jumping to 39.6 percent from 15 percent and the capital-gains tax increasing to 20 percent from 15 percent. The estate tax is eliminated this year, but it will return in 2011 -- though there has been talk about reinstating the death tax sooner.

    Millions of middle-class households already may be facing higher taxes in 2010 because Congress has failed to extend tax breaks that expired on January 1, most notably a "patch" that limited the impact of the alternative minimum tax. The AMT, initially designed to prevent the very rich from avoiding income taxes, was never indexed for inflation. Now the tax is affecting millions of middle-income households, but lawmakers have been reluctant to repeal it because it has become a key source of revenue.

    Without annual legislation to renew the patch this year, the AMT could affect an estimated 25 million taxpayers with incomes as low as $33,750 (or $45,000 for joint filers). Even if the patch is extended to last year's levels, the tax will hit American families that can hardly be considered wealthy -- the AMT exemption for 2009 was $46,700 for singles and $70,950 for married couples filing jointly.

    Middle-class families also will find fewer tax breaks available to them in 2010 if other popular tax provisions are allowed to expire. Among them:

    * Taxpayers who itemize will lose the option to deduct state sales-tax payments instead of state and local income taxes;

    * The $250 teacher tax credit for classroom supplies;

    * The tax deduction for up to $4,000 of college tuition and expenses;

    * Individuals who don't itemize will no longer be able to increase their standard deduction by up to $1,000 for property taxes paid;

    * The first $2,400 of unemployment benefits are taxable, in 2009 that amount was tax-free."(snip)

    from


    Ironically, I just happened to spend some time with an interesting Italian Gentleman last evening. One of the things he happened to comment on was the fact that US tax rates for 'middle class' Americans will soon equal the 'socialistic' tax rates now in effect in Italy / Europe, but WITHOUT 'middle class' Americans actually receiving the 'socialistic' gov't benefits available to 'middle class' Italians / Europeans in exchange for the high tax rates.

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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    ^^^ hmmm ... it's a good thing that I quoted the important bits of that story ... because for some strange reason Reuters has now 'pulled' it ! Apparently, 'somebody' thinks that Americans can't handle the truth regarding imminent 'middle class' tax increases !



    (snip)The story Backdoor taxes to hit middle class has been withdrawn. A replacement story will run later in the week(snip)


    but when one thing disappears another thing has a way of appearing to replace it ...

    (snip)"The era of big government has returned with a vengeance, in the form of the largest federal work force in modern history.

    The Obama administration says the government will grow to 2.15 million employees this year, topping 2 million for the first time since President Clinton declared that "the era of big government is over" and joined forces with a Republican-led Congress in the 1990s to pare back the federal work force.

    Most of the increases are on the civilian side, which will grow by 153,000 workers, to 1.43 million people, in fiscal 2010.(snip)

    (snip)The new figures are contained in the budget that Mr. Obama sent Monday to Congress.

    Mr. Obama says the civilian work force will drop by 80,000 next year, mostly because of a reduction in U.S. census workers added in 2010 but then dropped in 2011 after the national population count is finished. That still leaves 1.35 million civilian federal employees on the payroll in 2011.

    From 1981 through 2008, the civilian work force remained at about 1.1 million to 1.2 million, with a low of 1.07 million in 1986 and a high of more than 1.2 million in 1993 and in 2008. In 2009, the number jumped to 1.28 million.

    Including both the civilian and defense sectors, the federal government will employ 2.15 million people in 2010 and 2.11 million in 2011, excluding Postal Service workers."(snip)

    from

    BTW, according to Wiki the Postal Service employs an additional 656,000 workers !


    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-02-2010 at 04:39 PM.

  27. #23
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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    The responsible American public does need to take back our government and turn out the foolish and nacissistic politicians who are allowing our country to be eaten away by the irresponsible. But rats leaving the sinking ship will not be available to make the needed repairs.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  28. #24
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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    ^^^ unfortunately, that point trails back to other discussions ... which pointed out that between gov't workers, those receiving unemployment benefits, those receiving social welfare / medicaid benefits, those receiving social security / medicare benefits, private sector workers in gov't subsidized industries etc. that more than 50% of American voters now have a personal stake in the gov't continuing to be 'financially irresponsible'. On the flip side, this leaves less than 50% of American voters who will actually be required to pay the higher income taxes necessary to continue funding the gov'ts 'irresponsible' spending.

    Historians refer to this situation as 'tyranny of the majority'. Modern day analysts draw an analogy that gov't spending of this nature creates an 'addiction' for the beneficiaries of gov't funded benefits paid for by someone else. But for members of the 'minority' of actual net income tax payers, the result is the same. Any effective voting measure to reduce their income tax burden arguably now involves 'voting with their feet' ... which conveniently brings us full circle to the original thread topic.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-06-2010 at 04:55 AM.

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    Default Re: "" Emigrate Now ... Avoid The Rush""

    Again you're making stuff up. Income taxes for wealthy Americans are the lowest they've been since the 1920's or 30's, except for a brief 5 year period from 1988 - 1992. Income has risen for the wealthiest Americans far out of proportion to the rest of Americans.

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