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Thread: Using Medicaid while pregnant

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    Default Using Medicaid while pregnant

    ive always been financially conservative, right wing on money issues. melonie, if you read this, id greatly appreciate your feedback since i see that you have right wing money views as well.

    every time i hear about another stripper going on medicaid during a pregnancy, i am perplexed and admittedly a bit annoyed. strippers make decent money...if not, then theyd most likely not be doing it. so then a stripper who is young, healthy, and lacks big preexisting conditions shouldnt have a problem finding and paying for indep health insurance, even with the ripoff rates many insurance companies charge these days. ok so i realize that sometimes a girl might find herself pregnant before she gets around to signing up for health insurance...and once a girl's already pregnant, indep health ins companies wont cover it because its a "preexisting condition". but to go on medicaid?? come on, if the govt knew how much money she'd been making stripping, she'd never be eligible for it. which means that most likely the stripper-on-medicaid is hiding her job, hiding her cash earnings, and not only reaping medicaid benefits, but skimping on her taxes as well. which puts a tax burden on the rest of us taxpayers. can we please examine other healthcare options here?

    i realize that a pregnant stripper can only strip for so long before she "shows" too much (usually 3-5 mos) and must take a maternity leave. but does that mean she has to sign up for medicaid + sit around unemployed for those last months?...no. she could try and get a parttime retail job that has group health ins benefits available. e.g., starbucks gives ins to workers that work only 20hrs/week after 3 or 6 mos...which means a girl wont be covered for the ob/gyn visits in the first few mos but the ins would kick in before delivery, where the majority of healthcare costs are accrued. during those first few mos, the girl would most likely still be able to earn cash dancing and (assuming its a normal healthy pregnancy) she'd only need to see a ob/gyn ~once a month anyway.

    another thing about medicaid -- medicaid has the highest rate of rejected claims of any health insurance. and the choice of clinics/drs are limited. if you can do better, why not do it? esp if it's for your baby?

    and if you're already planning to marry the "baby daddy" that has group healthcare available for you once you're married...take it! even if it means having an earlier, cheaper (even courthouse) wedding. you can always have your big extravagant wedding later. if you postpone getting married + getting his health ins benefits just to have the big wedding, that is rather selfish...selfish for the taxpayers, even selfish for the baby.

    i do not understand why so many strippers feel they must rely on "the system" i.e. the gov't. personally id feel "stripped" (pun intended) of my pride to have to feebly rely on gov't, esp if im otherwise healthy and at an age that i should be self sufficient. i am a self starter that likes to be ambitious. in my opinion going on medicaid is like moving back home with mom and dad...better than nothing, but a very last resort that should be AVOIDED if possible. also, it is hypocritical to complain about high income tax rates on one's earnings yet want gov't aid available, esp if it could have been avoided. why arent there more people out there that feel the way i do? why is it always "i got pregnant having voluntary unprotected sex, ooh looks like im signing up for medicaid!" or "oh, you got pregnant? dont worry girl, just say 'medicaid'!"?

    P.S. -- i am not trying to be a jerk, just trying to shed some new light on a topic that ive noticed often gets overlooked by young girls (and not just strippers). i've been there before -- in my 20s, good income, surprise pregnancy, no health ins. i had suggestion of "medicaid" thrown at me so many times i wanted to scream. i refused, refused, refused to pretend i was impoverished (i.e., lie about my cash earnings) to become a welfare recipient. eventually i found a birthing clinic that was a good bit cheaper than a hospital would be out-of-pocket, and within my affordability range. i didnt know nearly as much about this topic as i did back then but i was still able to find a way to make having a baby work without relying on "the system". i just hope i can open some peoples' eyes to alternate routes to maternity coverage.
    Last edited by kthnx; 02-13-2010 at 11:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    I'm pretty sure medicaid doesn't pay you to sit on your ass in the last few months of pregnancy. It just covers certain medical expense. The rest must come from savings or other sources.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    Ever tried to find a job while pregnant? Employers don't like to hire pregnant women due to the amount of training expense that goes into a new hire when she is just going to go on leave in a few months anyway.

    If you don't want to ask for help from the government, there are other options. Many religions have charitable organizations that serve expectant mothers exclusively. These are not necessarily government funded, therefore not against your moral ideals of the role of government.

    Don't risk the health of your child or yourself for this higher moral ideal! If you don't have the $100,000 in the bank to cover your medical expenses over the course of your pregnancy and birth to 1 year for your child, you have to take the charity.

    After you have your baby, then work on paying back your debt to society. Don't take that risk today. It isn't worth it.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    I have to agree with the OP. I am tired of those people using the system. Sure, there are people who have accidental pregnancies, (no birth control is 100%) but many plan to get pregnant though they can't afford it. I've known a few strippers who were getting all these free welfare programs while making money stripping. I admit I've turned in a few and I'd do it again. Welfare wasn't for them, it's for those who need it.

    There's a simple solution: don't have sex. Right now I am not sleeping with my boyfriend partly because of this. Neither one of us wants a baby now, and both of us feel strongly that if a pregnancy was to occur that marriage would be the solution. Even so, we'll use condoms, but I do know people who've gotten pregnant using birth control (and my gut says that this will happen since I've avoided the bullet all these years). This is why women need to really be careful who they hook up with. I never really gave this much thought earlier, but age makes one wiser. I am no right winger, but years of seeing things made me wake up.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    Quote Originally Posted by KS_Stevia View Post
    I'm pretty sure medicaid doesn't pay you to sit on your ass in the last few months of pregnancy. It just covers certain medical expense. The rest must come from savings or other sources.
    no, ks_stevia, medicaid does not pay someone to "sit on their ass"...however, any change in income can affect one's eligibility to stay on medicaid, including an increase in income resulting from getting hired at a on-the-books (i.e., not under-the-table cash) job. ive known at least several girls who DID have a job offer while pregnant but declined it because they knew that if they took it, theyd no longer be eligible for medicaid, and they hadnt taken the time out to plan and assess their other health ins options much earlier in their pregnancy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    Ever tried to find a job while pregnant? Employers don't like to hire pregnant women due to the amount of training expense that goes into a new hire when she is just going to go on leave in a few months anyway.
    i was referring to jobs like starbucks, retail, etc...jobs that one wouldnt have to take extended maternity leave from (unlike stripping, modelling, physically rigorous jobs, etc), jobs that have very high turnover rates anyway even from non-pregnant employees. also, in the first few months of pregnancy the company would not be able to tell if one is pregnant because she wouldnt be showing yet. sure, if a girl waited until she was 6-8 mos pregnant she probably wouldnt get hired anywhere, but im talking about in the first month someone finds out she's expecting. it's not 100% guaranteed she'll find a job that will cover her in time, but it's worth a try before surrendering to the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    If you don't want to ask for help from the government, there are other options. Many religions have charitable organizations that serve expectant mothers exclusively. These are not necessarily government funded, therefore not against your moral ideals of the role of government.
    that is a very good idea...esp since the girl could return the favor to the church in the form of helping out with volunteer activities (which are generally less rigorous than stripping would be, and possible to do even while very pregnant)...i like the way you think!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    Don't risk the health of your child or yourself for this higher moral ideal!
    of course not...if theres nothing else one can do to protect herself and her child, definitely govt aid is better than nothing, for sure.

    however, the prob is that many girls do not consider all other viable options before settling on gov't aid...e.g., the girl on this forum who COULD be covered under her fiancee's group health ins if she moved up the date of her wedding and settled for a cheaper wedding. (even that plan wouldnt complete eliminate the chance to have a big storybook wedding...she could always do it later to renew her vows)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    If you don't have the $100,000 in the bank to cover your medical expenses over the course of your pregnancy and birth to 1 year for your child, you have to take the charity.
    i know from experience that although $100,000 would be great, it is way more than enough to adequately get by. i already stated that when i was pregnant + uninsured, i found a birthing clinic cheaper than a hospital. only a few yrs ago they charged $6000 for everything...$500 discount on that amount if you paid the total cost before the last month of the pregnancy, which i did, since id diligently worked and saved up money for baby expenses during the last few mos i could work at a bar before showing. imho this is a fairly large amount of money, but not an impossible amount, for a stripper to earn in addition to normal living expenses over the course of 3-4 mos that shes still stripping.

    also, stats show that first yr baby expenses total $8000...thats over the course of a yr, not necessary to pay for upfront of course, and thats not including any savings from using secondhand clothing + baby furniture, gifts from baby shower, shopping @ walmart instead of babies-r-us, etc.

    i hope that explains some things. that you, paris, for taking the time to write such a detailed response. i am happy to see some people reading and commenting on this topic.
    Last edited by kthnx; 02-13-2010 at 12:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    could someone tell me how i can give "thanks" to the message kellydancer wrote? kellydancer, i really appreicate your input and i am thrilled to see that someone agrees with me. i agree, people that intentionally use "the system" while making money stripping are not entitled to govt aid. i cant help but wonder if its because of people like that, that the handicapped people who truly need welfare (not for pregnancy, but for basic everyday life) have drastically limited funds available to them. also, i wish some of those using the system had enough pride to not want to rely on the system. imho as a 20something college grad with no health issues mental or physical, i wouldnt wanna be caught dead being a "welfare recipient" unless i had a severe handicap or other extenuating circumstance.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    I urge you to see the other side of this argument. While there are plenty of people who abuse "the system", there are plenty who DO NOT. It would be very unfortunate not have medicaid as an option for those decent, taxpaying strippers (like myself), who are pregnant and deserves to utilize the money that they have been paying into for years.

    As far as alternative options to medicaid...as far as I have discovered, they are very few. I recently moved back to Oregon to apply for the OHP. I had been living in a remote rural community in North Dakota and there was, simply, NOTHING else I could find, as an alternative to medicaid. As it turned out, I was denied medicaid despite my lack of income, due to some rental property I own in Oregon. I am not making any money on the property, my tennant's rent only covers the mortgage, but...medicaid deems that money as "income", which is ridiculous.

    Every situation is different and while I understand your frustration with those abusing the system, some women simply cannot work during thier pregnancies, due to health issues (bedrest, excessive sickness, etc).

    I will apply for my state benefits with my head held high, as I know that I am not an abuser of the systyem. I would hate to struggle to afford my prenatal care and compromise the health of my child and myself at the expense of my pride.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    Quote Originally Posted by kthnx View Post
    could someone tell me how i can give "thanks" to the message kellydancer wrote? kellydancer, i really appreicate your input and i am thrilled to see that someone agrees with me. i agree, people that intentionally use "the system" while making money stripping are not entitled to govt aid. i cant help but wonder if its because of people like that, that the handicapped people who truly need welfare (not for pregnancy, but for basic everyday life) have drastically limited funds available to them. also, i wish some of those using the system had enough pride to not want to rely on the system. imho as a 20something college grad with no health issues mental or physical, i wouldnt wanna be caught dead being a "welfare recipient" unless i had a severe handicap or other extenuating circumstance.
    Thanks. I too support it for those like the disabled and elderly and those who fell on hard times through no fault of their own. It's just that too many people think nothing of getting pregnant though they knew they couldn't afford it. I had a friend (she was a stripper too) who got pregnant though she couldn't afford it (and she wasn't using condoms). She used the system and it made me sick.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    Quote Originally Posted by anneholl View Post
    Every situation is different and while I understand your frustration with those abusing the system, some women simply cannot work during thier pregnancies, due to health issues (bedrest, excessive sickness, etc).
    And that is why i specified that aid should be available for those who are HANDICAPPED or have extenuating circumstances, but not for those that have healthy, normal pregnancies. the girl on this forum that i cited is only a month or so along, and doesnt (at least not yet) have bedrest or any health conditions preventing working...obviously not if she's still stripping as of 3 days ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by anneholl View Post
    I will apply for my state benefits with my head held high, as I know that I am not an abuser of the systyem. I would hate to struggle to afford my prenatal care and compromise the health of my child and myself at the expense of my pride.
    if rural north dakota is such a "deadtown" for jobs or lucrative money making, then perhaps you should consider relocating to a better town. if you cannot pay for healthcare expenses, then how do you expect to pay for expenses to raise your baby once he or she is born? or do you intend to try and get welfare to cover that too? im not trying to be mean, just pointing out something.


    one last thing -- ok if medicaid is a last resort and/or the mother is deathly ill during pregnancy, sure medicaid is better than going without. but the person who inspired me to write this thread CAN do better -- she is already engaged to the father, and would have group health benefits available to cover her + the baby if only she moved up the wedding date and sacrificed a big extravagant wedding (at least for the short term; she can always renew her vows and have it later, even some celebrities like adrianna lima did this!). and her soon-to-be husband's group ins might have better coverage anyway, since - as stated before - medicaid has more claim rejections than any private health ins. but if she cant even move up a marriage date + push back a big wedding celebration, it makes me question her selflessness for a child truth be told.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    I just found the thread in question and have to agree that person is not doing it right. There is a father and a wedding, and it would make more sense to have a smaller wedding and then have the baby added to his insurance. Personally, if I end up pregnant before I was going to get married I'd just plan a smaller wedding. I'd rather have a small wedding and have a child with married parents, than technically be a single mother and have a huge wedding. Huge weddings are over rated I think. Take that money instead and put it towards the baby. I resent people who think they deserve tax payers money because they just have to have a huge wedding.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    yes, kellydancer, once again i agree with you. also, what does it say about a "parent" that puts having a big wedding ahead of getting the best possible (and proudest form of) health insurance? i hope these types of decisions do not continue after the child is born.

    also -- i recently found this from the same pregnant stripper:
    I made 921 before tip out n shit.. They took 180 and with tip out n that, I took home 700
    if she can make 700 as a newb, then surely she can afford to save up something like 5500 for out-of-pocket maternity expenses at a birthing clinic like the one i went to...oh wait i forgot, she doesnt even need to pay out-of-pocket for healthcare expenses if she just gets hitched already...even better. also, i wonder if the people at the MediCal office know she's making this kind of money (or even a fraction of it per night) right now?
    Last edited by kthnx; 02-13-2010 at 02:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    To me it says they love the attention of a bigger wedding than they do the actual baby. I have a feeling that sense of entitlement will continue into the baby's life. I had a friend like this and she never changed.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    oh God, this is one of my LEAST favorite subjects given all of the related goings-on I have seen in New York dressing rooms over the years ...

    I'm pretty sure medicaid doesn't pay you to sit on your ass in the last few months of pregnancy. It just covers certain medical expense. The rest must come from savings or other sources.
    In New York and many other states with 'generous' benefits, becoming eligible for medicaid also generally makes one eligible for food stamps, for subsidized rent, for subsidized utilities etc. Thus it IS possible to sit on one's ass most of the time while earning / spending very little actual cash.

    i do not understand why so many strippers feel they must rely on "the system" i.e. the gov't

    I've known a few strippers who were getting all these free welfare programs while making money stripping.

    I was denied medicaid despite my lack of income, due to some rental property I own in Oregon. I am not making any money on the property, my tennant's rent only covers the mortgage, but...medicaid deems that money as "income", which is ridiculous.
    While some dancers obviously maintain a true work ethic and an attitude of personal responsibility, for a fact some dancers do not. For decades now, states like New York have offered very generous benefits to anybody who 'appears' to meet the eligibility criteria. In general, being eligible means having less than $15k per year in documented income, and having less than $3000 in documented assets ( single person no children). However, until very recently at least, a dancer with any amount of UNdocumented income and/or UNdocumented assets could apply for and collect benefits indefinitely.

    My own personal opinion is that the real world necessity of most dancers to break the law on a nightly basis in order to earn money in the private dance room breeds a similar attitude towards other 'victimless crime' laws as well. As with 'extras' in the VIP room, underreporting income in order to retain eligibility for benefits tends to be viewed as simply the way 'the game is played' ... especially when both carry a very low probability of being caught.

    However, I would also point out that between expanding technology in the way of automatic income and expenditure reporting to the IRS and state / local tax agencies, and expanding inter-agency information sharing in an environment of growing state budget troubles, lately there has been a huge number of 'welfare fraud' busts. I'm talking like 50 people busted at once. Of course, once the 'rock has been turned over', IRS and state tax wheels start turning right along with wheels at the social services department. And in the end, this will mean paying back all of the fraudulently obtained benefits in addition to some token jail time, plus paying back taxes plus penalties and interest.

    Of course, these don't apply if the person receiving the benefits actually has a very low income and no assets and is thus genuinely eligible for social welfare benefit coverage. However, even in this case, the eligibility rules create a 'moral hazard' situation for the person who is receiving benefits NOT to earn any more than $15k a year. In New York at least, there are a large number of cases where low income workers will deliberately refuse overtime, or deliberately precipitate being fired from their jobs, in order to avoid crossing the $15k a year income threshold but losing far more in benefit value than their over $15k earnings can pay for !

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    melonie, thank you so much for responding to this topic...even though it is your least favorite topic to talk about...your feedback has been much appreciated and respected.

    i agree with a lot of the points you bring up. i also agree that ny is a state that is very generous with its social aid - e.g., a handicapped relative of mine moved to albany because she knew it would be easier to obtain social aid there than in her homestate. in her case she had some legit physical handicaps, but point is, she viewed ny to be an easier state to get money from. she told me that theres a LOT of people in albany that rely on state money.

    if people are refusing overtime just so they can stay below the $15k threshold, then perhaps the state should make a new law that penalizes people for blowing off available work shifts in a similar way that the unemployment agency does. for example, if someone is on unemployment and working a parttime job (for anyone that is not aware, one can work parttime and still collect unemployment from a previous layoff as long as total work hrs does not equal 40+ hrs/week), he or she cannot refuse extra work hrs and still get an unemployment check. if he or she calls "out" of work or requests a day off, then the wages that coulda been potentially earned at that "unworked shift" get deducted from their unemployment check for that week. maybe the state should institute something similar for people on welfare, and do periodic checks with their employers (if any) to ensure that theyre available for work.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    I don't know how NY is, but I live in Illinois, and people move here just for the welfare. I've seen the same things Melonie mentions at jobs here as well as with people I know.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    ^^^ an excellent theoretical proposal, but a nightmare of 'moral hazard' in the real world. Consider that while earning $15k a person also receives medicaid with a cash value of say $5,000 a year, receives rent subsidies worth 12 * $300 = $3,600 a year, receives utility bill subsidies worth 12 * $100 = $1200 per year, receives food stamps worth 52 * $50 = $ 2,500 per year etc. In this environment, increasing one's income from $15k to $20k per year would actually cost the person MORE than the extra $5k they would earn ( and that's before the $5k of additional gross earnings gets hit with additional Social Security, medicare and other taxes ).

    As I have discussed in many other threads, the New York 'moral hazard' situation re social welfare benefits basically boils down to a person who earns $15k a year or $30k a year having the same de-facto standard of living ... and with a person earning $20k per year having a LOWER standard of living than if they only earned $15k. Politically correct or not, this 'moral hazard' situation is a contributing cause of keeping 'poor' New Yorkers poor ! And politically correct or not, achieving zero real world improvement in one's standard of living by working very hard / educating oneself to qualify for a $30k a year job versus a $15k a year job equates working very hard or educating oneself with being a de-facto waste of time and effort.

    Also, politically correct or not, there IS a 'cure' for the moral hazard situations in New York, Illinois, California, New Jersey and other very 'generous' states. That 'cure' will be state bankruptcy ... which in turn will FORCE future state spending levels to equal future state tax revenue levels. In a post-bankruptcy scenario, there is no way that the 'generous' current levels of social welfare benefits can be continued. Of course, this will also probably mean riots in the streets as all of those $15k per year state residents see the cash value of their social welfare benefits cut in half and their standard of living fall accordingly. And ironically this is likely to happen at the very same time that the same post-bankruptcy spending constraints result in large numbers of layoffs for police, for prison guards etc !!!

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    melonie, i realize that someone making $15,000/yr + receiving social aid could afford a better quality of life than someone making $20,000/yr + no social aid. i also saw this scenario occur with people on unemployment too. e.g., people that would rather NOT accept a dead-end job that pays less than they could earn on unemployment, esp since unemployment provides the luxury to stay at home, continue searching for something better, and still get paid for it. but some of those people actually got their unemployment benefits cut off when it was found that they were refusing work or even neglecting to check for available jobs with whatever job/temp agency they were registered with. i realize itd be hard for the govt to fully invetigate each welfare recipient, but mebbe they could, say, call their employers and ask them about each welfare recipient's availability and willingness to work? things like that? mebbe make their welfare benefits contingent upon them actively looking for better work, the way unemployment benefits are? i realize this would be difficult to do though

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ an excellent theoretical proposal, but a nightmare of 'moral hazard' in the real world. Consider that while earning $15k a person also receives medicaid with a cash value of say $5,000 a year, receives rent subsidies worth 12 * $300 = $3,600 a year, receives utility bill subsidies worth 12 * $100 = $1200 per year, receives food stamps worth 52 * $50 = $ 2,500 per year etc. In this environment, increasing one's income from $15k to $20k per year would actually cost the person MORE than the extra $5k they would earn ( and that's before the $5k of additional gross earnings gets hit with additional Social Security, medicare and other taxes ).

    As I have discussed in many other threads, the New York 'moral hazard' situation re social welfare benefits basically boils down to a person who earns $15k a year or $30k a year having the same de-facto standard of living ... and with a person earning $20k per year having a LOWER standard of living than if they only earned $15k. Politically correct or not, this 'moral hazard' situation is a contributing cause of keeping 'poor' New Yorkers poor ! And politically correct or not, achieving zero real world improvement in one's standard of living by working very hard / educating oneself to qualify for a $30k a year job versus a $15k a year job equates working very hard or educating oneself with being a de-facto waste of time and effort.
    Are those actual numbers, or did you just make them up? In Dayton, OH, the maximum a person can earn to qualify for Sec. 8 housing is $21,050.

    http://www.dmha.org/qualify.htm

    I doubt it would be any lower in New York City. As for Medicaid, based on the fed.guidelines, the cutoff for a single person is $10,830, $15,000.

    http://www.atdn.org/access/poverty.html

    There are jobs that pay $20,000 - $30,000 a year that offer health benefits, so a person taking a job with health benefits would not be giving up $5,000 a year if they got those same benefits from their employer. As the original poster said, StarBucks offers health benefits to employees who work 20 hours a week.

    You often greatly exaggerate how great poor people have it and how badly wealthy people have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Also, politically correct or not, there IS a 'cure' for the moral hazard situations in New York, Illinois, California, New Jersey and other very 'generous' states. That 'cure' will be state bankruptcy ... which in turn will FORCE future state spending levels to equal future state tax revenue levels. In a post-bankruptcy scenario, there is no way that the 'generous' current levels of social welfare benefits can be continued. Of course, this will also probably mean riots in the streets as all of those $15k per year state residents see the cash value of their social welfare benefits cut in half and their standard of living fall accordingly. And ironically this is likely to happen at the very same time that the same post-bankruptcy spending constraints result in large numbers of layoffs for police, for prison guards etc !!!
    States cannot declare bankruptcy.
    Last edited by eagle2; 02-13-2010 at 09:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    In response to the original post, there are people who do legitimately need public assistance for food, shelter, and healthcare, but I do agree that people should try to find other alternatives before applying for public assistance. The problem with your example of people going on Medicaid when they become pregnant is, even for people with good incomes, if there are any major complications with the pregnancy, the expenses can bankrupt someone, even if they're pretty well off financially. We really need healthcare reform so that everyone does have health insurance and nobody goes bankrupt from their medical expenses.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    States cannot declare bankruptcy
    Individual US cities and counties certainly can ... and have ... declared bankruptcy. I am not aware that a US state is in a different position from a legal standpoint. There is a difference in semantics though ... they simply call it 'default'. However, the end result is the same i.e. that previous contractual and other legal spending commitments fall by the wayside - which in turn allows the city / county / state to abrogate pre-existing employment / pay rate / other spending obligations.

    To make clear the possibilities re social welfare benefit recipients, the US supreme court is already on record that Social Security recipients have no constitutional right to receive future benefits ( i.e. the gov't has no contractual obligation toward taxpayers to actually provide the benefits their taxes were collected to fund ). This decision is directly applicable to benefit recipients of ANY gov't funded program.


    Are those actual numbers, or did you just make them up? In Dayton, OH, the maximum a person can earn to qualify for Sec. 8 housing is $21,050.
    New York's eligibility formulas are based on the person's income versus the actual official 'poverty level' in the NY county where they live versus the number of dependents. Indeed in the metro NYC area the eligibility threshold for a childless single person is something above $20,000.

    But regardless of individual areas' eligibility threshold amounts, the basic point remains the same that a strong 'moral hazard' situation exists where earning income marginally in excess of the eligibility threshold actual results in a declining standard of living. In the metro NYC area, it is probably necessary to earn more like $35,000 for a person to actually achieve a standard of living that is higher than that available when earning $20,000 plus collecting social welfare benefits ( because the equivalent cash value of the available benefits is also higher due to higher out-of-pocket pricing levels for rent, utilities, food etc. and higher local tax rates applying to additional income tax and out-of-pocket spending sales tax ).


    i realize itd be hard for the govt to fully invetigate each welfare recipient, but mebbe they could, say, call their employers and ask them about each welfare recipient's availability and willingness to work?
    well in the context of StripperWeb dancers likely to read this post, unless the dancer herself has previously chosen to 'announce' her work as a dancer by filing a tax return, there is no 'employer' for the gov't agency to call !!! In that scenario, the dancer earning money under the table and not declaring any of it as 'official' income appears to be without employment, appears to be without income, and appears to be fully eligible for every social welfare benefit the state has to offer !!! However, as I posted earlier, there are now much more agressive enforcement measures in this regard by the various gov't agencies involved ... and apparently much more high profile 'busts' and consequences when such 'welfare fraud' is discovered.

    I'll also throw out for consideration the point that many dancers have absolutely no qualms about pocketing under the table dancing earnings will collecting different social welfare benefits, i.e. college student grants and gov't subsidized student loans, that they would not be eligible for were their actual incomes 'officially' reported. However, being a college student carries none of the social stigma of being a welfare / medicaid recipient ... thus the psychological barriers against 'defrauding' a different gov't agency are far lower.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-14-2010 at 07:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    well in the context of StripperWeb dancers likely to read this post, unless the dancer herself has previously chosen to 'announce' her work as a dancer by filing a tax return, there is no 'employer' for the gov't agency to call !!! In that scenario, the dancer earning money under the table and not declaring any of it as 'official' income appears to be without employment, appears to be without income, and appears to be fully eligible for every social welfare benefit the state has to offer !!! However, as I posted earlier, there are now much more agressive enforcement measures in this regard by the various gov't agencies involved ... and apparently much more high profile 'busts' and consequences when such 'welfare fraud' is discovered.
    Excellent point! it is what it is i suppose...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    I'll also throw out for consideration the point that many dancers have absolutely no qualms about pocketing under the table dancing earnings will collecting different social welfare benefits, i.e. college student grants and gov't subsidized student loans, that they would not be eligible for were their actual incomes 'officially' reported. However, being a college student carries none of the social stigma of being a welfare / medicaid recipient ... thus the psychological barriers against 'defrauding' a different gov't agency are far lower.

    ~
    true and i know RICH - or at least upper middle class - families that did that too. they withdrew all their assets and essentally hid their income so their daughter could get lots of fin aid and grants. grants that my working class fam did not qualify for because my parents were honest to a T on their fafsa forms. it stinks. and yes i agree theres less society stigma attached to being a college student on grants than a welfare recipient.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    I don't see how upper middle class families could hide their income, unless they have a cash-based business.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    i dont know all the details, just that this girl somewhat bragged about how they withdrew money they had in stocks, and how doing that got her a lot of fin aid grants. not sure specifics though. the mom was a retail manager i dont know about the father though possible he did in fact have his own business with cash he could hide..not sure the details

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    cupcake, the girl was GOING to marry the guy anyway!! shes been engaged for a few mos now and talking about the wedding shes planning. so it wouldnt be a "shotgun wedding" or a wedding planned only for a baby, but a wedding that woulda happened ANYWAY! just hopefully itll be smaller and sooner.

    and, if she marries him, she can GET healthcare...much better QUALITY healthcare than medicaid could ever offer! i said it a few times before and ill say it again: medicaid has more claim rejections than any private insurance plan. also, one is often limited on choice of drs and obs when on medicaid. why not save pride, taxpayers money, and hassle by getting married to the dude one is already engaged to + planning a wedding for, and going on his healthcare? this is not rocket science.

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    Default Re: Using Medicaid while pregnant

    Quote Originally Posted by kthnx View Post
    i dont know all the details, just that this girl somewhat bragged about how they withdrew money they had in stocks, and how doing that got her a lot of fin aid grants. not sure specifics though. the mom was a retail manager i dont know about the father though possible he did in fact have his own business with cash he could hide..not sure the details
    I don't know about this. There is always a look-back period when applying for government aid programs.

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