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Thread: Legality of House Fees and Docks/Fines

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    Veteran Member Autumn Lily's Avatar
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    Default Legality of House Fees and Docks/Fines

    I've seen this a couple times on here and I've even heard it from some veterans in my club.

    Are House Fees legal? Requiring that we pay the club to use their stages, and mandating a schedule on top of that, and fining us if we miss a day? Not to mention giving the club a portion of lap dance/VIP fees. (I get $50 out of a $150 VIP sale? WTF)

    Considering that the club doesn't pay us, I don't see why they have to dock our pay/fine us. Girls at my club get fined $25 if they're late, $25 for being late to stage and for every song they're not at, $100 if they miss a shift (calling in or no-show), $500 if we fight (with dancers or customers), etc etc.

    Hell, they even dock the DJ and I believe even waitresses (PAID EMPLOYEES) are not exempt from docks, too.

    If they don't pay us, and they tell us our schedule and dock us for not following it, mandate a house fee (my club calls it a "Tip Out" - generously donated to the club by the dancer of her own free will) FOR that schedule...

    And if it's not legal, then why do they do it? O_o

    EDIT: Oops, could this be moved to Stripping General? My bad.

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    Default Re: Legality of House Fees and Docks/Fines

    This convo could be a hot one!!!

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    God/dess Athenathefabulous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Legality of House Fees and Docks/Fines

    Quote Originally Posted by Autumn Lily View Post
    I've seen this a couple times on here and I've even heard it from some veterans in my club.

    (I get $50 out of a $150 VIP sale? WTF)

    wait, you get 50$ or is this a typo and the club gets 50$, and you keep 100? Because a 100 out of 150$ split is normal, 50$ out of 150$ is NOT normal. Are you allowed to charge more, because then its more manageable,... if you charge 250, you keep 150... not great but its fairly standard. and the vip... is this for a half hr?

    But if you are not allowed to overcharge and are only keeping 50$ out of 150$, who cares if its legal, switch clubs for Christ's sake. thats fuckin retarded.
    The best thing i have heard in a strip club to date:
    customer: we should get married right now! we should get a shotgun marriage!
    me: uhh... i think you are misunderstanding what a shotgun marriage means. A shotgun marriage means you knock me up and my daddy shows up at your door with a gun and forces you to marry me and raise the baby. You mean elope.
    customer: hmm... nah actually i will take the shotgun marriage. At least then we would be having sex.


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    Senior Member dawnfire90's Avatar
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    Default Re: Legality of House Fees and Docks/Fines

    I always thought of a dancer paying the club in the way that a store in the mall rents the space from the mall. But then, if it worked the way it does in strip clubs, the store would have to pay a % of all their profits to the mall, which doesnt happen. at least i hope not...

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    Default Re: Legality of House Fees and Docks/Fines

    ... and this is where PornLaw comes in handy. Hopefully he didn't get run off by the other thread.

    My understanding is that fines for being late etc. are illegal.

    BTW, just for arguments sake, here how the government defines who is an independent contractor.
    http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/...=99921,00.html
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    Veteran Member Autumn Lily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Legality of House Fees and Docks/Fines

    Athena, the fee is for a full hour. $150 to sit with a dancer of your choice for an hour, and any lapdances you have to pay extra for, but they're only $20 instead of the usual $30 that my club charges, and the dancers keep the full $20, and a waitress will come up and sell dancer drinks.

    But yeah, out of a $150 sale I only get $50 of that, and it's hard to sell VIP at my club because most girls charge a minimum of like 5 dances and 3 $20 drinks or one $50 drink, so the guy gets it in his head that he only has to pay $150 for unlimited dances and then he hears about the extra fees.

    But I digress.

    Here's an example of a WTF "fee" we have to pay:

    In a $30 lapdance, we sacrifice $10 to the house, and they say it's for "security". Thing is, there's not a single bouncer in the club until 7 p.m. So... what security am I paying for?

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    Default Re: Legality of House Fees and Docks/Fines

    Quote Originally Posted by Autumn Lily View Post
    Athena, the fee is for a full hour. $150 to sit with a dancer of your choice for an hour, and any lapdances you have to pay extra for, but they're only $20 instead of the usual $30 that my club charges, and the dancers keep the full $20, and a waitress will come up and sell dancer drinks.

    But yeah, out of a $150 sale I only get $50 of that, and it's hard to sell VIP at my club because most girls charge a minimum of like 5 dances and 3 $20 drinks or one $50 drink, so the guy gets it in his head that he only has to pay $150 for unlimited dances and then he hears about the extra fees.

    But I digress.

    Here's an example of a WTF "fee" we have to pay:

    In a $30 lapdance, we sacrifice $10 to the house, and they say it's for "security". Thing is, there's not a single bouncer in the club until 7 p.m. So... what security am I paying for?
    Well i know your OP was not in regards to how to spin the VIP into more money, but im going to give you some quality unsolicited advice anyway. Turn the VIP deal into a package deal with unlimited dances-- dont tell the customer the fee is 150. Tell teh customer it is 400$. The 400$ includes an hour of your time and as many dances as the customer pleases plus backrubs plus ego (not cock) stroking plus your sparkling personality etc etc. That way, you make 300 and the club gets there 100. Talk to the VIP host about it, if htey balk, offer them a 10 or 20$ tip each time, as long as they agree. if they continue to balk, then coldly tell them that you will no longer be attempting VIP sales, 50$ is not worth your time. 400 an hour is fairly standard for a VIP time without champagne. and of course you can upsell for 450 to include your favorite drink. an hour of your time should NOT be practically given away for only 50$. Sell it like this... you will make a lot more money. Why only make 50$, +100$ for 5 dances when you could just make one simple sale and walk away with 300-tip to host = 280$? Trust me, this is the smarter way to do it-- and if your club balks, then its time to start looking for a new club, becasue they are fucking stupid.

    And in regards to tipping out the additional 10$ on each dance: 20/30 for a dance is not too uncommon. But if they are using 'security' as an excuse, well they are obviously lying.

    Also, keep in mind, if dances are 30$ at your club, 400 an hour should not sound unreasonable to the customer if it includes unlimited dances. And typically, champagne rooms are sold as blocks of time with dances included-- so if you do it this way, its fairly standard. and since your club is not depending on any money from the dances done in VIP, you can get away with it cuz they wont be counting.
    The best thing i have heard in a strip club to date:
    customer: we should get married right now! we should get a shotgun marriage!
    me: uhh... i think you are misunderstanding what a shotgun marriage means. A shotgun marriage means you knock me up and my daddy shows up at your door with a gun and forces you to marry me and raise the baby. You mean elope.
    customer: hmm... nah actually i will take the shotgun marriage. At least then we would be having sex.


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    Default Re: Legality of House Fees and Docks/Fines

    in the absence of an authoritative opinion from PornLaw, here's my layman's take on the situation

    where independent contractor dancers are concerned ...

    - being charged 'rent' for the use of club facilities is 100% legal. There are all sorts of analogous situations re hair salons, flea markets, etc.

    - being fined for failure to 'provide a service at the appointed time' is arguably legal too. This is based on the existance of a (implied) contract between a business ( the club ) and other subcontracted businesses ( the dancers ), with the subcontractor failing to perform as agreed in said contract ( i.e. late completion of work) - and also exists in analogous situations like a gov't and a paving contractor, a manufacturer and a repair service contractor etc.

    - a business retaining a percentage of the 'sale price' of items sold via a subcontractor, while paying a percentage to said subcontractor as a 'sales commission' is also 100% legal. Again there are a ton of analogies, with car dealers and car salespersons immediately coming to mind.

    - it is NOT legal for a 'general contractor' business ( like a club ) to force one subcontracting business ( like a dancer ) to make payments to another subcontracting business ( like a DJ ) in the absence of a specific and separate business arrangement being created between the two subcontracting businesses. Incidentally, by the same logic, payments actually made by one subcontracting business ( like a dancer ) to another subcontracting business ( like a DJ ) in the absence of a specific and separate business arrangement are NOT considered to be legitimate business expense tax deductions ( the IRS arguably considers such payments to be voluntary tips on the part of the first subcontractor )

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    Default Re: Legality of House Fees and Docks/Fines

    One of the reasons I left the very first club I ever worked in (even though I loved the people there) was due to one night.

    I was brand new at dancing and I had made $40 in tips alone. I was very proud of myself. And then the club hit me with charges for all the dances and drinks I DIDN'T sell. We were required to sell five dances a night (I'd sold none) and 7 drinks (I'd sold 3). So I had to pay $5 for each dance I hadn't sold and $2 for each drink I hadn't sold. That's $33 out of my $40 gone. Add to that the mandatory tip out to the dj, the waitress, and the bartender and I went home with NOTHING. I called them the next day and told them "Thank you for the opportunity, but I can't afford to work with you anymore."

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    Default Re: Legality of House Fees and Docks/Fines

    The short answer is: Fines and fees to work as an IC are illegal. This has been the case for a very long time, since the original formation of labor unions and labor laws in the US. So like, 1931 or there 'bouts.

    Strip clubs keep getting sued by the strippers, and losing. They have to pay out back wages, and any fees and fines charged to dancers. This doesn't seem to stop the practice. If anything, it makes things worse after a wave of legal judgments against clubs.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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