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Thread: just to get some different opinions [ commentary on Food Stamp abuse ]

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    Default just to get some different opinions [ commentary on Food Stamp abuse ]

    Ive posted this several places over the past year or 2

    im sure this situation has happened to you

    your in a convenience store and your behind the dude who has 100 dollars worth of junk food on the counter. When it comes time to pay what does he do, he whips out his handy dandy food stamps

    the clerk runs the card bags all his crap up and then the guy asks for 3 cartons of cigarettes and 10 20 dollar lottery tickets (numbers exaggerated for effect)

    how would that make you feel

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    ^^^ when I still lived in upstate NY, this was a relatively common occurrence ... i.e. you don't want to go shopping at WalMart near the 1st of the month ( when the gov't benefit checks arrive ! ).

    Not wanting to short-change the economic side of this issue, the food stamps are ultimately used to purchase food ( in one form or another ). The fact that paying for food with food stamps leaves remaining cash to be used for cigarettes / beer etc. is another story. Arguably, this is 'good' for the economy at least where the brewers and tobacco companies are concerned. As to the lottery ticket purchase, this is arguably good for the state's economy since the state is actually 'reclaiming' some of the food stamp's equivalent cash value in the form of actual cash spent on losing tickets by food stamp recipients.

    I am interpreting your larger point to be about 'moral hazard' i.e. that thanks to food stamps ( and other social welfare benefit programs ), the person receiving food stamps is able to achieve a similar standard of living as another person who is not receiving food stamps but whose paycheck / property is being taxed at a high rate in order to pay for the other person's food stamp ( and other social welfare program ) benefits. Or to use a glaring example from my own past experience, having just gone shopping for some hamburger and standing in the checkout line behind a person paying for steaks with food stamps. Admittedly it raises a question for 'working class' people of why they should bother to continue working.

    In the short term, there is really only one way to avoid this 'moral hazard' situation ... which is via 'voting with your feet'. That's what I did !

    In the longer term, arguably this situation will resolve itself once state and local governments are no longer able to extract sufficient tax revenues from state and local 'working class' residents ( plus middle class plus rich residents ) to pay for these social welfare benefits, once state and local governments' credit ratings decline to the point where they are unable to continue to borrow more and more money via muni bonds to pay for these social welfare benefits etc. For better or worse, state governments do not have access to a 'printing press'.

    Of course this may take a while, since the recent trend is for Washington to include transfer payments to certain states as part of 'stimulus' packages ... which in essence transfers the costs of generous social welfare programs in one state to the federal taxpayers of other states whose social welfare benefit programs are nowhere near as generous.

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    The benefits system over here is out of control. I used to be pretty liberal but then I got a job working for the Government and now I'm totally conservative because I have seen for myself how so many people are living off the government with no intention of getting a job. I quit that job in disgust because the situation was actually making me depressed. The reason why the UK has the highest teenage pregnancy rate is because they know they can have babies and get free housing and money until their child is 18!

    I have a friend who is on benefits (welfare) and she is a qualified teacher but won't get a job because she says she's better off on benefits. She can afford to do stuff I can't and MY Taxes are paying for it. She gets disability allowance but drinks and smokes and goes out every weekend. It disgusts me.

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by teleron View Post
    Ive posted this several places over the past year or 2...
    the clerk runs the card bags all his crap up and then the guy asks for 3 cartons of cigarettes and 10 20 dollar lottery tickets (numbers exaggerated for effect)

    how would that make you feel
    Where you stand on an issue often depends on where you sit. I live in a tobacco producing state and a state with a rapidly failing lottery. I say buy those smokes and lotto tics!

    HTH
    Z

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    ^^^ yes, but, every time the gov't raises tobacco taxes, the sales volume of smokes is reduced ( and along with it net tobacco tax revenues received ! )

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    Have a friend in a grocery store tell me one time she was checking out a customer who when told she couldnt pay for dog food with her food stamps she requested 5 lbs of their best ground meat. Sick

    When i was in college i used to work a convience store to help pay my way. I was checking out a couple with two kids. The basically were getting groceries there. She puts a expensive bag of beef jerky on the counter and her SO says whoa thats a little expensive. She replies "ahh baby i getting food stamps we got two kids and pats her stomach and says we got more food stamps on the way" sick
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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    "We got more food stamps on the way" purely disgusts me.

    Yeah, I could pop out some youngins and get free stuff. But I have more respect for my body and the life of another human being for that.

    I once saw a woman buy 300 dollars worth of foodstamps with 300 more left on her card and a brand new car parked outside. Shiny. Black. Sports car.
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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    ^^^ again trying to retain a 50% economic content ....

    For a fact, gov'ts that permit never-ending social welfare benefit coverage, combined with gov'ts that choose to provide equivalent cash values for social welfare benefit coverage that rival the amount of after-tax cash that can be earned by working full time at an 'unskilled' job, have created a new 'career path' i.e. full time social welfare benefit recipient. The 'skills' required to pursue this 'career path' are pretty basic too

    ... the ability to produce enough children to maximize benefit levels versus increased personal effort ( typically equals three kids )

    ... the ability to 'work the system' i.e. understanding the details of which social welfare program is best used to 'pay' for this commodity or that service ( i.e. calling an ambulance is 'free' but taking a cab to the hospital costs $10 ! )

    ... the ability to understand and adhere to the limits of social welfare program eligibility versus official income level ( i.e. quitting a part-time job before annual earnings level threatens future benefit eligibility, working under the table etc.)

    Absent the social stigma, this can be viewed as a consciously chosen and pursued legitimate 'career path' ... and a 'career path' that pays increasingly well in comparison to most full time employment opportunities for those without significant skills. This is particularly the case when the scope of available social welfare benefits also includes subsidized rent, subsidized utility bills etc.

    Based on my limited exposure from living in New York and New Jersey, these states now has a significant number of third generation 'professional' social welfare benefit recipients. All those years of experience with the social welfare benefit eligibility requirements / enforcement efforts etc. in fact allows some of them to 'play the system' as if it were a Stradivarius !

    And don't forget that they also provide something badly needed by the New York and New Jersey state & local economies ... justification for state and local governments to employ tens of thousands of very well paid gov't workers to administer those social welfare benefit programs !!!

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-17-2010 at 11:39 PM.

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    A girl I know told me a while back she'd like to be on the same disability benefits as me - I told her I'd happily cripple her for life if she REALLY wanted them. Oddly, she declined. Silly bitch.
    Get the fuck off my harbl, yo'.

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by sxcbbw View Post
    A girl I know told me a while back she'd like to be on the same disability benefits as me - I told her I'd happily cripple her for life if she REALLY wanted them. Oddly, she declined. Silly bitch.
    Yes... my boyfriend gets this all the time. He also spent several years in Iraq and has chronic pain and insomnia.

    It's funny that once you mention that you actually have to be disabled, everyone takes that statement back.
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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ yes, but, every time the gov't raises tobacco taxes, the sales volume of smokes is reduced ( and along with it net tobacco tax revenues received ! )
    That is the point, for the government. It wants to reduce smoking for public health reasons. Raising taxes is government's most efficient way of influencing behavior, even addicted behavior.

    Z

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    Raising taxes is government's most efficient way of influencing behavior, even addicted behavior.
    Well, there's actually some contrary evidence where addicted behavior is concerned. It seems that people with a limited amount of discretionary spending money available to their weekly budgets will almost always choose to reduce their 'consumption' of some other good or service in order to continue spending money ( actually spending more money due to the higher taxes ) on tobacco, alcohol, etc. It seems that this phenomenon is at least partially responsible for the major decreases in business levels at 'downscale' big city storefront businesses.

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Victoria669Jones View Post
    The benefits system over here is out of control. I used to be pretty liberal but then I got a job working for the Government and now I'm totally conservative because I have seen for myself how so many people are living off the government with no intention of getting a job. I quit that job in disgust because the situation was actually making me depressed. The reason why the UK has the highest teenage pregnancy rate is because they know they can have babies and get free housing and money until their child is 18!

    I have a friend who is on benefits (welfare) and she is a qualified teacher but won't get a job because she says she's better off on benefits. She can afford to do stuff I can't and MY Taxes are paying for it. She gets disability allowance but drinks and smokes and goes out every weekend. It disgusts me.
    Ughk! The British benefits system. It disgusts me. I have gotten into some good discussions on it with my regulars. I am glad to see that you share the same feelings.

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Victoria669Jones View Post

    I have a friend who is on benefits (welfare) and she is a qualified teacher but won't get a job because she says she's better off on benefits. She can afford to do stuff I can't and MY Taxes are paying for it. She gets disability allowance but drinks and smokes and goes out every weekend. It disgusts me.
    That kind of shit pisses me off so bad. I work so goddamn hard and I see other people living at the same standard I am or better with no freaking job!

    I know it will catch up with them but it's still infuriating. I scrimp and save because I want to retire young while these bastards go live it up every friggin' weekend. Every time I hear about some old person having to eat cat food I think of these douche bags my age who don't work and spend every dime they get.

    I hope they do end up eating cat food and living in a damn slum. I am just so tired of jackasses feeling entitled to MY money when they don't work 1/10th as hard as I do.

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Zofia View Post
    That is the point, for the government. It wants to reduce smoking for public health reasons. Raising taxes is government's most efficient way of influencing behavior, even addicted behavior.

    Z

    Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha

    public health reason would be smoking bans in pubic places which some states are actually doing

    they raise alcohol and tobacco taxes because they are addicting and people have to make an effort to quit which means the government gets a guaranteed source of income

    I would actually enjoy if everyone just decided to stop smoking, it might not single handedly collapse the economy but with everything else thats been going on it would be fun to watch



    (didnt actually mean to come off as a dick sorry if thats how anyone reads it)

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    This is all reminding me of an ex roommate who blew her child support checks on alcohol, new clothes, sunglasses etc, and her food stamps on rack of lamb and energy drinks where she could get them with food stamps.

    A week later the house was magically out of food and there was no money for bills! Imagine that.

    I'd also like to note that she took 400 a month from us and blew that too, instead of paying bills with it. Then she'd beg for more money when the power got shut off Then she hocked a bunch of my boyfriends tools for cash, but that's a story for a different day.
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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    Then she'd beg for more money when the power got shut off
    I'm surprised that your state doesn't offer a utility bill subsidy program. In NY, NJ, CA etc. if you are eligible for food stamps you're also eligible for a state utility assistance program that pays half of your electric / gas / oil bills for you !

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by teleron View Post
    Ive posted this several places over the past year or 2

    im sure this situation has happened to you

    your in a convenience store and your behind the dude who has 100 dollars worth of junk food on the counter. When it comes time to pay what does he do, he whips out his handy dandy food stamps

    the clerk runs the card bags all his crap up and then the guy asks for 3 cartons of cigarettes and 10 20 dollar lottery tickets (numbers exaggerated for effect)

    how would that make you feel
    Sad. Because I know people who rely on food stamps and government support and they REALLY need it; because of the people like you described there isn't enough help to go around.

    Side note: I am all for my tax dollars being spent to lend a helping hand to someone who is down on their luck, but people who don't work becasue they're too fucking lazy and would rather lay around all day collecting pogy piss me off!



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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions

    I agree with everyone about this issue. I have seen so much abuse, including a friend who was on the system. I've seen people spend their food stamps on candy, get the cash back, and then buy booze and cigarettes. I've seen people who can't even speak English, yet they managed to get money from the system. Yet the people who really need help have to jump through hoops. I couldn't begin to mention all those who fell on hard time yet were not eligible or got so little it wasn't worth it. Related to this, around Christmas I saw a woman trying to use her Link Card (Illinois food stamp/welfare program) to buy electronics (luckily it was declined). This is why I support strict limits on welfare and food stamps. Make sure food stamps are only for healthy food. I am tired of seeing them go to candy, pop, snacks, along with items such as lobster and steak (seen both of these happen).

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions [ commentary on Food Stamp abuse ]

    Ya actually they did have that program, buuuut it's hard to pay the other half when you spend it on makeup/jewelry/clothes/alchohol/going out.
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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions [ commentary on Food Stamp abuse ]

    You cannot spend food stamps on non-food items. Or energy drinks at least from my knowledge.

    You cannot buy something with food stamps and get the cash back either. Most stores will make you show a receipt to get cash back.

    If its such a big problem report people when you see them doing stupid shit.

    Caseworkers disable people who get benefits sometimes they allow them to have no job but there bill mysteriously get paid and they dont question it. Stores allow people to buy all this BS but there only in it for the cash anyways.

    People know how to get on the system and work it forever if they can on atleast until there kids are 18.

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions [ commentary on Food Stamp abuse ]

    I have no problem with people buying steaks and lobster on food stamps. It's food. One should be more angry about buying 18 bottles of soda pop. Empty calories and diabetes. I see a lot of fat welfare people - I think it is because they don't have any education - including how to eat right.

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions [ commentary on Food Stamp abuse ]

    Energy drinks- depends on the store. Some gas stations etc will let it fly. My old roommate would hunt out these places just to get her caffeine fix.

    I always reported it. When I worked in a grocery store I used to get angry moms yelling at me because I wouldn't let them ring up things with their WIC that WIC didn't cover. I'm sorry, your baby probably won't benefit from Sugar Coated Marshmallow Munchies.

    Yeah the 18 bottles of soda and 39 bags of cheetos is probably a bigger problem than the steak.
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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions [ commentary on Food Stamp abuse ]

    Quote Originally Posted by teleron View Post
    Ive posted this several places over the past year or 2

    im sure this situation has happened to you

    your in a convenience store and your behind the dude who has 100 dollars worth of junk food on the counter. When it comes time to pay what does he do, he whips out his handy dandy food stamps

    the clerk runs the card bags all his crap up and then the guy asks for 3 cartons of cigarettes and 10 20 dollar lottery tickets (numbers exaggerated for effect)

    how would that make you feel

    im the person who started the thread about "pregnant dancers who use medicaid"...so yea you can prolly guess i would not be a happy camper in this situation

    i know of some strippers who are on foodstamps even tho they shouldnt be. not sayin no strippers have a legit need for foodstamps, just sayin that there are some that make good cash earnings, do not report their cash earnings to taxes, jus so they can continue to get free food from the govt. unbelievable.

    it angers me how many people abuse the system. keeping lenient guidelines for obtaining funds from the system will continue to breed misuse of it. furthermore, people abusing the system takes money away from the rare people that truley need it--the physicaly handicapped, the mentaly retarded, etc.--and that makes me feel very sad.

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    Default Re: just to get some different opinions [ commentary on Food Stamp abuse ]

    Ok, I agree with most of this thread except the diabetes part. Not all diabetics are because they are overweight. Most of the time Type 2's are because of that but not always. Type 1 diabetics is because their pancreas has failed due to an autoimmune disorder. Kinda like thyroid issues.

    I thought I would clear this up because I am a Type 1 diabetic.

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