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Thread: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

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    Senior Member Paul in Saudi's Avatar
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    Default How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    OK, so health care reform of some sort is a done deal. The Prez says something will pass one house or the other by Friday and at some point he will sign legislation. The details are not set, but I suppose the broad outlines are clear enough at this point.

    I am an overseas American, so like I suppose most of you, I am not covered by my employer. What will this new law require us to do? How much will it cost us?

    As i understand it, and I am eager to be corrected, we will be required to buy health insurance. But the insurance companies will be required to sell to us without regard to pre-existing conditions and so on. Is that the general idea?
    If I give all I have to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love; I gain nothing. Paul’s 1st Letter, 13th Chapter

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    there are a whole bunch of variables that are still up in the air. However, the general concensus of the changes ... as they would pertain to self-employed people in general and dancers in particular ... are as follows.

    You'll be hit with a new ~$800 IRS 'penalty' every year if you don't purchase health insurance coverage that complies with new federal standards. Obviously if you do purchase health insurance this penalty doesn't apply.

    If you do purchase insurance that complies with new federal standards, it will probably NOT be an inexpensive policy which only covers physical health problems / emergency room visits with a very high deductible. The new federal standards are likely to mandate coverage for alcohol / drug rehab, for mental illness etc. Also, the federal standards are also likely to require an 'affordably low' level of deductible and co-pays ( based on the desire to subsidize lower earning Americans' health care costs). If so the ( unsubsidized ) cost of this level of coverage will be fairly expensive.

    the use of tax exempt Health Savings Accounts will be severely scaled back.

    You'll be hit with a new 10% surtax on all tanning salon sessions

    You'll be hit with a new surtax on all medical devices, from breast implants to tampons !

    As both employer and employee, an independent contractor business person is in the unique position that they may be hit with a delayed 'employer' tax the following year to cover the gov'ts costs of providing subsidies ( vouchers ) for the 'employee' to purchase health insurance coverage at reduced cost this year. This is the cost shifting mechanism that will be used to pay the cost of providing 'vouchers' to lower income level employees of major corporations. However, for a self-employed person, this may mean that there won't be any net cost savings by using 'vouchers' even if the income level is low enough to qualify.


    While I haven't paid a great deal of attention to this issue since I am also an overseas American, I did have a discussion with my accountant that touched on this issue. Because of the mandate that requires all health insurance companies to write coverage for Americans regardless of pre-existing conditions, my accountant is recommending to other clients that they simply pay the ~$800 IRS 'penalty' tax, fly without health insurance, and pay for minor medical expenses out of pocket. If and when a serious medical condition does develop, if health insurance companies cannot deny coverage due to pre-existing conditions then those other clients can sign up for insurance at that point in time ( and pocket the difference in the meantime ). My accountant draws a similarity to driving without auto insurance, getting into a serious accident, and THEN purchasing auto insurance coverage which is required to pay the associated costs of the accident from that point forward.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-17-2010 at 01:14 PM.

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ...Because of the mandate that requires all health insurance companies to write coverage for Americans regardless of pre-existing conditions, my accountant is recommending to other clients that they simply pay the ~$800 IRS 'penalty' tax, fly without health insurance, and pay for minor medical expenses out of pocket. If and when a serious medical condition does develop, if health insurance companies cannot deny coverage due to pre-existing conditions then those other clients can sign up for insurance at that point in time ( and pocket the difference in the meantime ).
    ~
    Your accountant is right on this. The penalty is the fatal flaw in the current "reform" bills. It does nothing to encourage younger, healthier people to buy insurance. Indeed, as your accountant surmises, it may actually encourage healthy people to delay purchasing health insurance until they really have a claim.

    For example, a normally healthy and self-employed woman forgoes purchasing health insurance. She misses a period. She buys a kit, takes the test and it comes back positive. Then she buys health insurance. All her prenatal care, the pregnancy and delivery are still covered as insurance must cover pre-existing conditions. Once the baby is delivered, she drops coverage for herself until the next positive test. How does this help control costs? It does not. In fact it makes insurance costs higher per insured. Otherwise, she pays her $800 annual penalty and pockets the difference. (Ironically, she probably has lower health care costs under this model as she is more "involved" in evaluating her treatment since she is paying for it.)

    Z

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    Senior Member Paul in Saudi's Avatar
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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    That was a very interesting option. Wait until you get cancer then buy insurance. I had not thought of that. I would prefer to be insured, but it would make sense to run both set of numbers.

    As for tanning, that is not a problem in Saudi.
    If I give all I have to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love; I gain nothing. Paul’s 1st Letter, 13th Chapter

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    That was a very interesting option. Wait until you get cancer then buy insurance. I had not thought of that. I would prefer to be insured, but it would make sense to run both set of numbers.
    Well, I would certainly wait until the actual particulars shake out.

    My accountant went on to say that, as the result of health insurance providers not being able to deny coverage for Americans with pre-existing conditions, as well as the new financial motivation for the 'young and healthy' to drop health insurance coverage in favor of just paying the ~$800 annual 'fine' to the US gov't via the IRS, this is likely to lead to the bankrupting of health insurance companies as we presently know them ... as well as leading to much higher future health insurance premium costs based on the premise that a much higher percentage of the insured will actually have serious ( and expensive ) medical conditions.

    Of course, the REAL unknowns start to come in regarding who will actually wind up paying for this much more expensive health insurance coverage ... and by what mechanism. They've proposed 'means tested vouchers' which will allow low income Americans to purchase health insurance coverage at a reasonable cost ( with employers being forced to cover the difference i.e. the actual equivalent cost of the vouchers 'cashed in' by employees). They've proposed a surtax on the 'ordinary income' of higher earning level Americans ( i.e. something like an additional 3.6% tax on incomes over $200k a year). They've proposed imposing a surtax on dividend / interest / capital gains income which would theoretically apply equally to Americans at all different overall income levels. At this point we really don't know where and how they intend to come up with the money ... only that they intend to subsidize costs for lower income Americans via extracting new and additional tax revenues from higher earning American individuals and businesses.

    Additionally, the 'gold foil hat' crowd is already speculating in regard to the potential 'secondary effects' of national health care. For example, if businesses that employ (near) minimum wage workers are required to retroactively pay the cost of the vouchers those (near) minimum wage employees are given to (heavily) subsidize their purchase of health insurance coverage, the de-facto hourly cost of unskilled labor to these employers would rise in a major way. This in turn could lead to massive layoffs / business bankruptcies ... or at the very least a transition from hiring employees to hiring independent contractors. At the other end of the spectrum, if the ordinary incomes and dividend / interest / capital gains earnings of higher skill higher earning Americans are going to become subject to new and additional taxes, this could serve as a strong dis-incentive for entrepreneurial risk-taking and a strong incentive to shift investments away from American stocks and bonds and toward tax free state / local gov't issued muni bonds.

    And as pointed out by at least one very famous high earning American, this could also serve as a strong incentive for more 'rich' Americans relocating to Costa Rica in order to avoid both the new and additional taxes as well as the comparatively high existing taxes !
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-17-2010 at 10:15 PM.

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    lets see currently i pay 14k which includes my deductible before the first thing is covered. So......


    with employers being forced to cover the difference i.e. the actual equivalent cost of the vouchers 'cashed in' by employees).
    Which we will in turn lower employee rate of pay. Its not like i am taking anything from them, they are still getting it...the goverment is just deciding how they get paid....instead of money they get coverage. I already told my people that if it passes we will either come to an agreement on lower pay or layoffs will occur and no raises until i recoup the difference. Do they actually think this is going to come out of our pockets. Govt is so damn stupid. No matter what they do to us we will just pass it on. But the dumbasses of the world continue to believe the lies they spew.....oh we are going to help you by forcing the employers to do this that and whatever.

    We raise prices, cut costs like employee pay, cut charitable contributions, cut doughnuts on mon, wed, and friday. Quit buying all the employees lunch once a month. Seriously.....so stupid.
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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    Which we will in turn lower employee rate of pay. Its not like i am taking anything from them, they are still getting it...the goverment is just deciding how they get paid....instead of money they get coverage
    This is potentially true when talking about a $15 an hour employee ... where it would be possible to drop the hourly pay rate to $12 an hour in order to allocate the other $3 an hour towards that employee's health insurance ( or voucher ) costs.

    But if a gov't minimum wage mandate exists that the employee cannot be paid less than $7.50 per hour, where does the employer come up with the additional $3 an hour which must go towards that employee's health care ( or voucher) costs? The obvious answers are ... lower business profit margin, increased prices ( if that's possible versus foreign competition ), invest in automation to allow the permanent firing of minimum wage workers, etc.

    Also, you're now hitting upon an area of 'tertiary' effects ... i.e. is a college educated skilled worker who had previously been earning $15 an hour going to willingly accept a pay cut to $12 an hour in order to cover their employer's new costs of providing them health care ( directly or via vouchers), versus simply refusing the pay cut, being laid off, and collecting 99 weeks worth of unemployment benefits ( which compares favorably to an after-tax $12 per hour paycheck) PLUS absolutely free health insurance coverage via medicaid under the new national health care system ?

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    This is potentially true when talking about a $15 an hour employee ... where it would be possible to drop the hourly pay rate to $12 an hour in order to allocate the other $3 an hour towards that employee's health insurance costs. But if a gov't minimum wage mandate exists that the employee cannot be paid less than $7.50 per hour, where does the employer come up with the additional $3 an hour which must go towards that employee's health care ( or voucher) costs?

    Yes
    And i have a lot of clients in that boat who have said that they do not know if they are going to be able to stay in business. Some of the diners employ quite a few people with families. It is so sad that the govt is going to actually put people out of work with this. I know two for sure that said they will more than likely shut down. They are older people that have owned small business forever and are just working to stay busy and alive. But to do it and struggle to make a dollar just isnt worth it to them. I would say between the two diners that appox. 50 people will lose there jobs. So sick.

    I know we need to do something about our system but i feel this rush to pass this will hurt everyone. I do not know the solution but from what i have understood to be in this legislation so far just doesnt make sense.
    But then again i am used to running a company without a deficit and i only spend what i earn, nor can i print money when i need it, or just make up shit as i go to get myself out of trouble....so i guess i am not suppose to understand. Whatever...
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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    ^^^ well, that line of reasoning is exactly why I'm disturbed about the potential outcome for independent contractor dancers ... who may wind up personally facing the 'increased employer cost' side of the national health care issue. But unlike a true small business, there is zero chance that dancers will be able to 'pass on' such 'increased employer costs' to club customers. As a result, it's entirely possible that an independent contractor dancer can make use of a gov't voucher to purchase health insurance at a subsidized net cost of say $3000 this year ... only to find that her taxes will be hiked by $7000 the following year as the gov't recovers the cost associated with the voucher used to purchase health insurance coverage that had an actual cost of $10,000 !

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Also, you're now hitting upon an area of 'tertiary' effects ... i.e. is a college educated skilled worker who had previously been earning $15 an hour going to willingly accept a pay cut to $12 an hour in order to cover their employer's new costs of providing them health care ( directly or via vouchers), versus simply refusing the pay cut, being laid off, and collecting 99 weeks worth of unemployment benefits ( which compares favorably to an after-tax $12 per hour paycheck) PLUS absolutely free health insurance coverage via medicaid under the new national health care system ?
    This is true. But as employers as they quit or get laid off we will hire new employees at the lower pay. I pay 15 hour to drive a delivery truck. Its not that hard to hire a new person for 12 per hour. Most people i know can drive.
    A woman, if she so chooses, can give you everything but her heart. Without her heart she is giving you nothing.
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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    Ir does show you there is a rather lot to it. Further one thing effects the next thing endlessly.
    If I give all I have to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love; I gain nothing. Paul’s 1st Letter, 13th Chapter

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    ^^^ indeed that is the case. Some additional details regarding the changes included in the health care bill have just been released ( see ) , and there are quite a number of 'stealth' targets for health care taxes.

    - an increase of 0.9% in the personal medicare tax rate ... which for a serious full time independent contractor dancer would increase her total medicare tax rate to 1.45% employer + 2.35% employee or 3.8%

    - the first time medicare taxation of interest earnings, dividend earnings, rental earnings etc. at a rate of 3.8%

    - reduction to a $2500 annual limit on tax exempt health savings account contributions ( with the likely outlawing of the associated high deductible health plans due to non-compliance with new federal insurance standards )

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    Well it may be a good deal, or not. It is just too soon to tell. Nonetheless, Americans pay too much and get too little. Cutting down on what the insurance companies take is key. We may or may not be able to do it.

    But this will lead us to political debate which was not my intent.
    If I give all I have to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love; I gain nothing. Paul’s 1st Letter, 13th Chapter

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    This is potentially true when talking about a $15 an hour employee ... where it would be possible to drop the hourly pay rate to $12 an hour in order to allocate the other $3 an hour towards that employee's health insurance ( or voucher ) costs.

    But if a gov't minimum wage mandate exists that the employee cannot be paid less than $7.50 per hour, where does the employer come up with the additional $3 an hour which must go towards that employee's health care ( or voucher) costs? The obvious answers are ... lower business profit margin, increased prices ( if that's possible versus foreign competition ), invest in automation to allow the permanent firing of minimum wage workers, etc.

    Also, you're now hitting upon an area of 'tertiary' effects ... i.e. is a college educated skilled worker who had previously been earning $15 an hour going to willingly accept a pay cut to $12 an hour in order to cover their employer's new costs of providing them health care ( directly or via vouchers), versus simply refusing the pay cut, being laid off, and collecting 99 weeks worth of unemployment benefits ( which compares favorably to an after-tax $12 per hour paycheck) PLUS absolutely free health insurance coverage via medicaid under the new national health care system ?
    I would guess that most college educated skilled workers already have jobs that are providing health insurance, so the effect would probably be minimal. For employers that are already providing health insurance, health care reform could potentially reduce their costs. If there are more healthy people paying into the pool, the cost will go down for those who are already paying for insurance.

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by You Know Me View Post
    Yes
    And i have a lot of clients in that boat who have said that they do not know if they are going to be able to stay in business. Some of the diners employ quite a few people with families. It is so sad that the govt is going to actually put people out of work with this. I know two for sure that said they will more than likely shut down. They are older people that have owned small business forever and are just working to stay busy and alive. But to do it and struggle to make a dollar just isnt worth it to them. I would say between the two diners that appox. 50 people will lose there jobs. So sick.

    I know we need to do something about our system but i feel this rush to pass this will hurt everyone. I do not know the solution but from what i have understood to be in this legislation so far just doesnt make sense.
    But then again i am used to running a company without a deficit and i only spend what i earn, nor can i print money when i need it, or just make up shit as i go to get myself out of trouble....so i guess i am not suppose to understand. Whatever...
    I think that businesses with less than 50 employees are exempt from having to offer health care insurance to their employees.

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    If there are more healthy people paying into the pool, the cost will go down for those who are already paying for insurance
    but this issue is the underlying reason that future insurance costs will be so unpredictable ... and potentially much higher than today. If the gov't mandates that all pre-existing conditions must be covered by health insurance companies, then any reasonably healthy person under the age of ~40 with an income too high to get '''free''' or heavily subsidized national health insurance coverage would be absolutely nuts if they chose to purchase ~$7,000 health insurance coverage versus paying the ~$800 penalty and flying without health insurance. The smart ones will pocket the $6,200 a year cost difference ( thus denying that $7,000 to the insurance companies for use in paying other claims ). Then when those people actually develop health problems later in life, they can sign up for the ~$7,000 health insurance coverage and dump their $100,000 worth of medical bills onto the insurance company.

    Also, the same situation applies to employers ... who are likely to face a choice of spending ~$7,000 a year per employee for health insurance coverage versus paying a ~$2,000 a year penalty to the IRS for NOT providing employee health insurance coverage. The 'smart' employers are going to sit down with their employees and offer them two options ... keep your paycheck at the same level ( or perhaps a small raise ) in exchange for losing your employee health insurance coverage, or take a major pay cut. And in cases where minimum wage laws won't allow for a pay cut, the employer is simply stuck eating an additional $2,000 a year = $ 1 an hour in de-facto labor costs ( if not also being required to eat the cost of gov't subsidy vouchers used by their employees to purchase national health insurance).

    In other words, the majority of 'healthy' people who wind up in the national health insurance program will NOT be contributors of large insurance premium dollars. Instead they will be those people whose low incomes provide for major subsidies to reduce their health insurance premiums to an 'affordable' level. As to how those subsidies will actually be funded, your guess is as good as mine. But the gov't has announced how it plans to fund these subsidies ... via increasing the medicare tax on wages, by instituting a medicare tax on dividend income, interest income, capital gains income etc., by instituting 'stealth' taxes on everything from tanning sessions to breast implants !!!


    I think that businesses with less than 50 employees are exempt from having to offer health care insurance to their employees
    Yes but ... those small business employers ( and self-employed ) may very well be required to pick up the cost of gov't subsidies granted to their employees to reduce their national health insurance premiums. Different pocket, but same result.


    For employers that are already providing health insurance, health care reform could potentially reduce their costs
    Caterpillar's accountants obviously are using a different math ...



    (snip)"Caterpillar, the world's largest construction machinery manufacturer by sales, said it's particularly opposed to provisions in the bill that would expand Medicare taxes and mandate insurance coverage. The legislation would require nearly all companies to provide health insurance for their employees or face large fines.

    The Peoria-based company said these provisions would increase its insurance costs by at least 20 percent, or more than $100 million, just in the first year of the health-care overhaul program.

    "We can ill-afford cost increases that place us at a disadvantage versus our global competitors," said the letter signed by Gregory Folley, vice president and chief human resources officer of Caterpillar. "We are disappointed that efforts at reform have not addressed the cost concerns we've raised throughout the year."

    Business executives have long complained that the options offered for covering 32 million uninsured Americans would result in higher insurance costs for those employers that already provide coverage. Opponents have stepped up their attacks in recent days as the House moves closer toward a vote on the Senate version of the health-care legislation.

    A letter Thursday to President Barack Obama and members of Congress signed by more than 130 economists predicted the legislation would discourage companies from hiring more workers and would cause reduced hours and wages for those already employed."(snip)

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 03-20-2010 at 04:07 AM.

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    The real solution might be for large companies like Caterpillar to form their own non-profit insurance companies. That is what is done in countries like Germany. Further it is presently impossible to predict how much money we will save when insurance companies no longer spend acres of cash on denying claims and marketing.

    Forgive me, I drift into argument.
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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    ^^^ this is probably unworkable due to another provision of the national health care bill ... a prohibition against insurance companies setting 'lifetime caps' on insurance payouts to a particular insured person. Thus although self-insurance by a large corporation would eliminate a few percentage points worth of profit margin, UNLIMITED future financial obligations re employee health care costs constitutes a huge financial risk that corporations are unlikely to 'volunteer' to accept.

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    after yesterday's passage by the House, Bloomberg just published the following synopsis ...

    (snip)"If the final version of the legislation passes the Senate, high-income investors will pay higher Medicare taxes, tax breaks for out-of-pocket medical deductions will be curtailed, and it will cost insurance companies more to pay executives millions of dollars. Those levies will help fund expansion of Medicaid services for the poor and subsidize health insurance to cover millions who don’t currently have benefits.

    “It’s very clear that taxes are levied on the wealthy and the benefits will spread across the entire income distribution, with a lot going to expanded Medicaid distribution and expanding health insurance,” said Roberton Williams, an economist at the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research institute backed by the Urban Institute and Brookings Institution. “One couldn’t claim he didn’t keep that promise” to “spread the wealth around.”

    In all, the bill would generate $409.2 billion in additional taxes by 2019, according to an analysis by the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan agency. The bill also imposes about $69 billion more in penalties for individuals and businesses who don’t meet mandates to buy insurance, according to the Congressional Budget Office, another nonpartisan agency.

    Higher Medicare Taxes

    Most of the revenue would come from higher Medicare taxes on about 1 million individuals earning more than $200,000 and about 4 million couples filing jointly who make more than $250,000.

    The legislation would for the first time apply Medicare taxes to investment income received by these households, beginning in 2013. The 3.8 percent rate would apply to unearned income such as realized capital gains, dividends, interest, rents and royalties. It wouldn’t apply to other income subject to income taxes, including interest from municipal bonds and retirement accounts such as 401(k) plans until funds are withdrawn.

    Obama’s budget proposes to allow the existing 15 percent tax rate on dividends and capital gains to rise to 20 percent in 2011 for the same high-earners. Layering a 3.8 percent Medicare tax on top of that would mean a new top rate on dividends and capital gains of 23.8 percent. The top tax rates on interest and rental income would rise to as high as about 44 percent, assuming other Obama tax increases on high-earners are enacted.

    Individual’s Share

    The bill also increases the individual’s share of Medicare tax currently imposed on salaries starting at $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples to 2.35 percent, from 1.45 percent currently.

    The combination of the new Medicare taxes and Obama’s budget proposals, if they were in place this year, would cost a married couple with a household income of $5 million an extra $287,100 in taxes, according to analysis by the consulting firm Deloitte Tax in Washington.

    The Medicare taxes superseded an earlier Senate proposal to tax high-value employer-provided insurance coverage, dubbed “Cadillac plans.” That 40 percent excise tax was delayed until 2018, when it would begin to apply to benefits over $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for couples.

    Those thresholds would be indexed to inflation, which grows at a slower pace than the cost of health care, meaning more employers would likely face the levy over time.

    Out-of-Pocket Costs

    Other provisions likely to affect higher-income individuals would scale back tax preferences associated with paying out-of- pocket medical expenses. Starting in 2013, Americans under 65 won’t be able to deduct medical expenses until they exceed 10 percent of income, up from 7.5 percent now; retirees would keep the lower threshold.

    The bill in 2011 places new restrictions on what can be purchased using special savings accounts funded with pre-tax dollars including health savings accounts. Improper withdrawals from the accounts also would be hit with a new 20 percent tax.

    And the legislation for the first time would place a $2,500 limit on what can be contributed to employer-sponsored flexible spending accounts, another type of account funded with pre-tax dollars that can be used to pay for medicines, co-payments, and other expenses.

    Employers currently set their own limits, typically between $3,000 and $5,000 in the absence of a government cap. This change would cost an average worker about $625 in tax savings, according to WageWorks Inc., a San Mateo, California, company that administers 1.5 million accounts.

    Tanning Salons

    Consumers who frequent tanning salons would pay a 10 percent excise tax, and those who buy devices such as wheelchairs would pay a 2.3 percent excise tax. Drugmakers may pass on a $3 billion annual fee."(snip)

    (snip)"Under the reconciliation bill that is now before the Senate, individuals who don’t purchase insurance would be subject to a fine of $325 in 2015 and $695 in 2016. Individuals may be subject to a charge equal to as much as 2.5 percent of their income in 2016, if the total is greater than the flat payment.

    Employers with 50 or more workers would pay $2,000 per worker if they don’t offer health insurance. The legislation offers a small business tax credit to help pay for employer- provided premiums. "(snip)

    from

  20. #20
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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    Does this mean I can have plastic surgery covered? (I know, stupid question....just curious)

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    ^^^ elective plastic surgery that is lacking a medical reason would still not be covered as the result of long-standing previous legislation. However, if you decide to get an elective plastic surgery paid for out of your own pocket, you will now also have to (indirectly) pay a stiff new 'medical device' tax on your breast implants etc.

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    My accountant draws a similarity to driving without auto insurance, getting into a serious accident, and THEN purchasing auto insurance coverage which is required to pay the associated costs of the accident from that point forward.

    ~
    Auto insurers will not cover after the fact, they are wise to this trick. Unless its some very minor issue that is likely already cheaper to fix than a deductible, auto insurers will deny claims made too soon after coverage is purchased.

    Some stupid strippers I know tried to do this trick and got royally fucked.

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by You Know Me View Post

    We raise prices, cut costs like employee pay, cut charitable contributions, cut doughnuts on mon, wed, and friday. Quit buying all the employees lunch once a month. Seriously.....so stupid.
    I think I would much rather have affordable health care than donuts and free lunches.

    Besides, most employers already factor in the cost of healthcare into the employees salaries OR employees still pay a portion of their costs, if not most.

    Plus you can write off the portion of your income used to pay for employee health care.

    Why do you feel that you will have to change things if you are already covering your employees with the $14K spent? Is that annual? Monthly? How many employees does it cover? What percentage of the total healthcare cost is that? Do they pay for some of it?

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post

    Also, you're now hitting upon an area of 'tertiary' effects ... i.e. is a college educated skilled worker who had previously been earning $15 an hour going to willingly accept a pay cut to $12 an hour in order to cover their employer's new costs of providing them health care ( directly or via vouchers), versus simply refusing the pay cut, being laid off, and collecting 99 weeks worth of unemployment benefits ( which compares favorably to an after-tax $12 per hour paycheck)
    NO IT DOES NOT. Have you seen an unemployment paycheck?

    Also, people do not qualify for Medicaid if they have:
    a home (even if its mortgaged)
    retirement assets
    money in the bank (aka, savings)
    Unemployment benefits of more than $10K (for a single person)

    An individual would have to stoop VERY low to "enjoy" their life on the government dole. Most people don't want to live like that. They want to work, earn, save, and enjoy the lifestyle they have worked hard to achieve.

    Quit lumping all working and middle class americans with the con-artist underclass who mooch off the system because they have no values and low expectations.

    A lot of members of this site are those people, and its very offensive, particularly coming from a mod.

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    Default Re: How will Health Care Reform Impact Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul in Saudi View Post
    The real solution might be for large companies like Caterpillar to form their own non-profit insurance companies. That is what is done in countries like Germany. Further it is presently impossible to predict how much money we will save when insurance companies no longer spend acres of cash on denying claims and marketing.

    Forgive me, I drift into argument.
    This is an excellent idea. I've actually done some work with these companies. Its referred to as Captive Insurance. But it is very expensive to start up and maintain. Best to have a group of businesses agree to this, and that can be quite difficult.

    Its something my former company was actually working on promoting and marketing in anticipation of this health care bill.

    Basic overview:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_insurance

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