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Thread: Energy Shift with ATF

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    Default Energy Shift with ATF

    I spent a good deal of time with my ATF on the day shift. I'd usually stop in at least once a week on my way home and generally spend $100 plus ($20/per lap dance). Sometimes I'd tip her $50 for her table time and stage dancing, no lap dancing at all. Not huge bucks, but consistent and the conversation flowed (I get it her livelihood depends on the conversation flowing). From so much face time I got to know her better than any stripper heretofore. She told me her first name etc.

    Well she told me the other day she was likely getting out of the business, income was just too inconsistent. She's quit and come back before. She's 23 YO and in school. I provided her with a list of contacts to call in her job search. I spoke to these people and asked if they would meet with a young woman I'd gotten to know. I showed her the emails and/or played the voice mails of these people agreeing to meet with her. Point was I wanted her to be comfortable contacting these people.

    I began to see her as woman friend, not so much a T&A distraction for my amusement. The reality is I was friendly with a stripper, not that I had a woman friend who happened to strip for a living. I wanted more of the latter than the former, but that's not what they're selling in SC. I stopped frequenting the club as much and haven't bought any dances from her in a couple of weeks. When I was last in the club, she pretty well shunned me.

    She once confided in me that there were me in the club she knew she could sell dances to, but chose not to as they were too much hassle. Seems I may have found myself on that list. Which is okay, but the part about being ignored really smarts of disrespect.

    Like I said, the energy shifted, probably more so on my end. I'm not about getting mad and getting even, but I am looking for some type of foil, some kind transition where I can reciprocate the disrespect proportionately without being an asshole. I get it, I made my bed and now I get to lie in it.

    Any suggestions?

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    Featured Member sxcbbw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    You stopped contributing to her income, so she's stopped assuming you're going to be of any help to her.
    Get the fuck off my harbl, yo'.

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by sxcbbw View Post
    You stopped contributing to her income, so she's stopped assuming you're going to be of any help to her.
    It's really not that complicated now is it?
    Thanks.

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    I don't get what you're bitching about
    Quote Originally Posted by AznExtasy View Post
    LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    You can say that again.. not just on here but men in general. Guys are so damn lame, the only way they can halfway make up for it is by opening their wallets.

    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Tools

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    Featured Member lopaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    Be the bigger person.
    Forget about her and move on with your life.

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    I really despise customers who expect me to contact them or their acquaintances outside of the club.

    Like when I told one customer I was remodeling my bathroom and he gives me a list of people to call. I told him that I had already hired someone but he didn't leave me any way to refuse the list without looking like a complete and utter cunt.

    Three weeks later, he's upset that I didn't call the people. *for fucks sake!*

    We are entertainment, not your friends. She didn't disrespect you at all so shove your reciprocation up your ass.

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by mcmillan View Post
    She once confided in me that there were me in the club she knew she could sell dances to, but chose not to as they were too much hassle. Seems I may have found myself on that list. Which is okay, but the part about being ignored really smarts of disrespect...
    The only disrespect I see is coming from your end. You stopped spending money on her and you expect her to give you the time of day when she is at work? Um get real....

    Quote Originally Posted by mcmillan View Post
    Any suggestions?
    Yes, come down from your high "she is my friend who happens to be a stripper" horse and get your head out of your ass. Regardless of what she may do later on when she is at the club she is working. Making phone calls or sending emails for her are nice gestures but it doesn't pay her bills. Buying dances does.

    It's really very simple. Inside a strip club a guy who spends is part of the solution, a guy who doesn't is part of the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    Sophia_Starina is a sensible stripper...Naked all the way.....
    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    You've reached the expiration point with your AFT and have failed to realize that HER ATF are the guys who are currently spending money in the here and now.

    Suggestions?

    I suggest you realize that the clubs are set up to deal with the contingencies of the delusional PL/RIL types. Your "reciprocation" will be about as mysterious and suspenseful as a backed up toilet is to a plumber.

    This is a game and like every game, this game has rules. You pay for attention. When you stop paying you stop getting attention.

    The cornerstone of a PL/RIL is that they believe they are somehow so special that the rules have changed just for them. They constantly seek proof of that belief and if the dancer treats him in a way that he perceives as being special (OTC activity, learning the dancer's real name, etc.,.) that's enough proof to satisfy the PL/RIL.

    Secretly, PL/RILs think the dancer might really like them, might even love them and the world would be perfect if only they stopped dancing, got rid of their boyfriend, etc.

    You stopped spending money and she stopped paying you attention. That is the way it has, does and will always work. And those "exceptions to rule" are what the retail industry refers to as "loss leaders." The "free" attention given is because the club is slow and the dancers want to work on their game - batting practice before the real game begins. PL/RIL never seem to notice that when the club gets busy, the ATF leaves them and their silly talk to go to work.

    For the modern man going through a mid-life crisis, it seems dancers have replaced secretaries as the object of their desperation to avoid coming to terms with the realities of old age and death.

    A customer thinking he's going to get more than attention-paid-for-inside-the-club is like one of those 1950s teenyboppers who think they've got a special and personal relationship with Elvis because she received a reply from the fan mail she sent him. She ignores the reality that the reply is just a form letter.

    This is a business. Dancers are in Entertainment Sales. Time is money and money is time. Dancers don't promise a relationship. Dancers promise attention in the club as long as you're paying for it.

    Try working at your job PAST quitting time without getting paid for it. Try coming to your job on the weekends when you don't have to and working without getting paid for it. And on the holidays. Yeah, that's what it feels like when a PL/RIL tries to extend things past the expiration point.

    Really, there's no reason to feel bad: you got what you paid for. And if you think you were entitled to more than what you were paying for, again, the problem is with you and not the dancer.

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    Thanks ! This was priceless. Intellectually I've known this all along. I told her strippers are like juke boxes, whoever ponies up the coinage gets to call the tune. All they have to sell/hustle is their time. There were busy times I send off to shoot fish in a barrel, it's her livelihood, how could I be offended?

    She's very good at ingratiating herself with men (duh!)..
    It was very foolish of me think we had better chemistry (not romantic/sexual), but commonalities, etc. than anyone else who was willing to pony up $20 for a LD.

    It has been a tawdry & expensive hobby I should discontinue.

    Again, thanks for the heads-up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Michigan View Post
    You've reached the expiration point with your AFT and have failed to realize that HER ATF are the guys who are currently spending money in the here and now.

    Suggestions?

    I suggest you realize that the clubs are set up to deal with the contingencies of the delusional PL/RIL types. Your "reciprocation" will be about as mysterious and suspenseful as a backed up toilet is to a plumber.

    This is a game and like every game, this game has rules. You pay for attention. When you stop paying you stop getting attention.

    The cornerstone of a PL/RIL is that they believe they are somehow so special that the rules have changed just for them. They constantly seek proof of that belief and if the dancer treats him in a way that he perceives as being special (OTC activity, learning the dancer's real name, etc.,.) that's enough proof to satisfy the PL/RIL.

    Secretly, PL/RILs think the dancer might really like them, might even love them and the world would be perfect if only they stopped dancing, got rid of their boyfriend, etc.

    You stopped spending money and she stopped paying you attention. That is the way it has, does and will always work. And those "exceptions to rule" are what the retail industry refers to as "loss leaders." The "free" attention given is because the club is slow and the dancers want to work on their game - batting practice before the real game begins. PL/RIL never seem to notice that when the club gets busy, the ATF leaves them and their silly talk to go to work.

    For the modern man going through a mid-life crisis, it seems dancers have replaced secretaries as the object of their desperation to avoid coming to terms with the realities of old age and death.

    A customer thinking he's going to get more than attention-paid-for-inside-the-club is like one of those 1950s teenyboppers who think they've got a special and personal relationship with Elvis because she received a reply from the fan mail she sent him. She ignores the reality that the reply is just a form letter.

    This is a business. Dancers are in Entertainment Sales. Time is money and money is time. Dancers don't promise a relationship. Dancers promise attention in the club as long as you're paying for it.

    Try working at your job PAST quitting time without getting paid for it. Try coming to your job on the weekends when you don't have to and working without getting paid for it. And on the holidays. Yeah, that's what it feels like when a PL/RIL tries to extend things past the expiration point.

    Really, there's no reason to feel bad: you got what you paid for. And if you think you were entitled to more than what you were paying for, again, the problem is with you and not the dancer.

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by mcmillan View Post
    It was very foolish of me think we had better chemistry (not romantic/sexual), but commonalities, etc. than anyone else who was willing to pony up $20 for a LD.
    Well, foolish or not the real point is that it's irrelevant to what happens when she is at work. I see a few of my favs OTC for lunch, dinner, casino visits or other fun activities on a fairly regular basis. I help them out with various real world issues from time to time and I am always a phone call, email or text away when they just wanna piss and moan about a bad day, a stupid customer or a psycho ex. Be that as it may, when I go to the club I go only with the intention of spending money on a beautiful woman who is there to earn a living. That is one of the reasons that everything else I share with these women is possible.

    Being a dancer's friend does not entitle you to take advantage of her at work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    Sophia_Starina is a sensible stripper...Naked all the way.....
    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    i've genuinely liked many of my customers over the years, but good conversation doesn't keep my electricity on. being paid by a guy who likes my conversation and likes me and likes my lapdances does.

    what, should i be working as a cashier at walmart, making minimum wage and being treated like total garbage for it? do customers think that i'll spend whatever time i've got left after working 70 hours a week to pay my bills making the same pleasant conversation i can in the stripclub? do they think i'd still be in the mood?

    i like talking to people. i like making people feel good. i like getting naked and rubbing myself against strangers for money. but if i'm not getting paid to do that, i've still got to make money somehow. and i take it as a personal insult if a customer takes my conversation and gropes on me for an hour and doesn't hand me any money for it (not that i'm likely to stay around that long, but if it were a regular during dayshift i probably would). what, you don't like me? you don't think i'm worth your money?

    it's like when guys bitch about girls being ugly or girls having bad attitudes. give money to the pretty girls with good attitudes and they'll stay around. what incentive is there when the bitches and ugly girls make more than you do (the bitches cos they hustle hard and the ugly girls because they're either dirty or guys think their dirty)

    when summer comes, i'm gonna try to get a regular job waitressing or something. hell even walmart would be acceptable. because that's how bad my money gets stripping in tampa in the summer. if i'm not gonna make anything, i'd rather stay close to home, use less gas, not worry about makeup, and wear sneakers and actual clothes. it's better than spending 2 hours getting ready then driving 30 minutes for the privelege of getting felt up by cheap jerks trying to hustle me for a date/sex.

    the last thing i need is guys thinking they're my friend and therefore don't have to spend money on my time when i'm at work. somebody who doesn't respect me when i'm at work isn't a friend.
    -love everyone but keep them far from your soul-

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by Michigan View Post
    Dancers don't promise a relationship. Dancers promise attention in the club as long as you're paying for it.

    Try working at your job PAST quitting time without getting paid for it. Try coming to your job on the weekends when you don't have to and working without getting paid for it. And on the holidays. Yeah, that's what it feels like when a PL/RIL tries to extend things past the expiration point.
    This is sooo freakin true! I never even gave out my number because frankly it was creepy having a stranger with a crush having my number and having to talk to my regs outside of work felt...well, like WORK.

    That being said, before a few of the "strippers are the debil" guys on here start, I should say. Even if you enjoy your job, you wouldn't work extra hours for no pay or do it for free! I never disliked dancing, I mostly enjoyed it and even enjoyed talking to most of my regs...but it was still work, not recreation time.
    "I hear you calling and it's needles and pins. I wanna hurt you just to hear you screaming my name...You're poision. but I don't wanna break these chains.... I wanna love you but I'd better not touch."

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by mcmillan View Post
    I'm not about getting mad and getting even, but I am looking for some type of foil, some kind transition where I can reciprocate the disrespect proportionately without being an asshole. I get it, I made my bed and now I get to lie in it.

    Any suggestions?
    Wait. You want us to tell you how to disrespect this girl without looking like you are disrespecting her? You want us to give you advice on how to disrespect a dancer?

    Let's put aside the ridiculous balls you must have to ask this. You've already disrespected her. You continued to take up her time, but you stopped paying for it. She is the one reciprocating.
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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    "And the hits just on coming..."

    You're so right. The stipper-patron "relationship" is "transactional," not unlike prostitution, only we're purchasing partial nudity & sexual fantasy, not sex. If I don't put my quarter in the juke box, I don't get to hear the tune. But the juke box doesn't cop an attitude with me if I sit back or play pool instead of music.

    Strpping is like any other "service" where you get what you pay for. Fair enough. See how much interest your shrink or your lawyer has in your case when you run out of coin. Of course in those cases you're not likely to be tipping them for their services, nor offering them business leads outside your immediate case.

    But if you discontinue their services, yet run into them when you're in their office building seeking the services of their associates, they're not likely going to snub you or be disrespectful. I would ask the same question, "How would I reciprocate their energy?"

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    Playing the "white knight" role especially combined with being (at least in part ) a cheap ass, is a sure way to tick off strippers.

    As Yoda said on another thread, in a club one is either a dancer or a paying customer, anyone else is basically getting in the way

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    oh i see it on #7 now stated a bit better"

    "It's really very simple. Inside a strip club a guy who spends is part of the solution, a guy who doesn't is part of the problem.

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by mcmillan View Post
    But the juke box doesn't cop an attitude with me if I sit back or play pool instead of music.
    The jukebox might very well cop an attitude with you if it weren't and inanimate object.

    Quote Originally Posted by mcmillan View Post
    But if you discontinue their services, yet run into them when you're in their office building seeking the services of their associates, they're not likely going to snub you or be disrespectful. I would ask the same question, "How would I reciprocate their energy?"
    I'll bet they would do more than snub you and be disrespectful if you took up and hour of their time and then didn't pay them.
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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by chris91 View Post
    The jukebox might very well cop an attitude with you if it weren't and inanimate object.

    Pithy comment.

    I'll bet they would do more than snub you and be disrespectful if you took up and hour of their time and then didn't pay them.
    Possibly true, but I didn't take up anyone's time, I merely ran into them at their place of business where they and their associates practice their trade. Perhaps you missed the part of my original post where I had a history of paying her $50 for her stage/table time.

    Let's face it, there are "boundaries" OTC where say a man is only aloud to stare at an attractive woman so long before he's either making a pass at her or he's invading her personal space (stalking like predatory behavior). Or a man is only aloud to stand so close to a woman he doesn't know before he's again invading her personal space (more predatory behavior).

    But ITC society's normal boundaries become far more porous. Conversations are far different, far more intimately honest & false at the same time. (Stripper: "Hello, my name's Cinnamon, what's yours? Patron: "Bill Clinton, and you're one gorgeous woman." Stripper: "Well thank, you're too kind." Patron: "And I might add your body rocks and your breasts are to die for." Well her name isn't Cinnamon nor is his Bill Clinton, but she is good looking and she does have nice tits. It's a familiar dance in a SC.

    Strippers dress and present themselves in the most provocative manner they can to entice a man's attention. Strippers & patrons pair off and proceed to engage in some pseudo intimate/friendly, superficial chit chat as foreplay, followed by as much lap dancing as he desires or can afford.

    It's a "transaction" base exchange of his money for her time, her T&A, her porous boundaries, and her faux interest in him as a person. Should he not solicit her to engage in a similar exchange when he's next in the club, it's her prerogative to snub him in the future, but not necessarily a sound marketing ploy.

    I don't believe you and I are going to agree on much, but that's the beauty of it. Reasonable people can disagree. You don't know me and you certainly don't know the stripper. The problem with forums like this is people tend generalize and project. Could be I'm just a complete Ass, but it could also be the stripper was at fault (face it, the latter is a possibility). I'm not here to argue with you.

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by mcmillan View Post
    Possibly true, but I didn't take up anyone's time, I merely ran into them at their place of business where they and their associates practice their trade. Perhaps you missed the part of my original post where I had a history of paying her $50 for her stage/table time.
    When you said that you had stopped buying dances from her, I took that to mean that you still hung out with her. Re-reading it, I don't really know how I got that impression.

    If you're going to the club and not spending time with her at all, then maybe she's snubbing you because she feels snubbed by you.


    Quote Originally Posted by mcmillan View Post
    Let's face it, there are "boundaries" OTC where say a man is only aloud to stare at an attractive woman so long before he's either making a pass at her or he's invading her personal space (stalking like predatory behavior). Or a man is only aloud to stand so close to a woman he doesn't know before he's again invading her personal space (more predatory behavior).

    But ITC society's normal boundaries become far more porous. Conversations are far different, far more intimately honest & false at the same time. (Stripper: "Hello, my name's Cinnamon, what's yours? Patron: "Bill Clinton, and you're one gorgeous woman." Stripper: "Well thank, you're too kind." Patron: "And I might add your body rocks and your breasts are to die for." Well her name isn't Cinnamon nor is his Bill Clinton, but she is good looking and she does have nice tits. It's a familiar dance in a SC.

    Strippers dress and present themselves in the most provocative manner they can to entice a man's attention. Strippers & patrons pair off and proceed to engage in some pseudo intimate/friendly, superficial chit chat as foreplay, followed by as much lap dancing as he desires or can afford.

    It's a "transaction" base exchange of his money for her time, her T&A, her porous boundaries, and her faux interest in him as a person. Should he not solicit her to engage in a similar exchange when he's next in the club, it's her prerogative to snub him in the future, but not necessarily a sound marketing ploy.

    Yes, I understand how strip clubs work and how they are different form the real world. Why do people feel like they need to explain this stuff around here? This is pretty basic strip club 101.
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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    You can reciprocate by moving on and spending your money on someone else.

    anything else, she won't care, and will likely just get you ejected from the club.

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by mcmillan View Post
    I began to see her as woman friend, not so much a T&A distraction for my amusement. The reality is I was friendly with a stripper, not that I had a woman friend who happened to strip for a living. I wanted more of the latter than the former, but that's not what they're selling in SC. I stopped frequenting the club as much and haven't bought any dances from her in a couple of weeks. When I was last in the club, she pretty well shunned me.
    Quote Originally Posted by mcmillan View Post
    Possibly true, but I didn't take up anyone's time, I merely ran into them at their place of business where they and their associates practice their trade. Perhaps you missed the part of my original post where I had a history of paying her $50 for her stage/table time.
    You used to sped money on her then you stopped. She used to pay attention to you and then she stopped. See the connection?
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    Sophia_Starina is a sensible stripper...Naked all the way.....
    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by mcmillan View Post
    I spent a good deal of time with my ATF on the day shift. I'd usually stop in at least once a week on my way home and generally spend $100 plus ($20/per lap dance). Sometimes I'd tip her $50 for her table time and stage dancing, no lap dancing at all. Not huge bucks, but consistent and the conversation flowed (I get it her livelihood depends on the conversation flowing). From so much face time I got to know her better than any stripper heretofore. She told me her first name etc.

    Well she told me the other day she was likely getting out of the business, income was just too inconsistent. She's quit and come back before. She's 23 YO and in school. I provided her with a list of contacts to call in her job search. I spoke to these people and asked if they would meet with a young woman I'd gotten to know. I showed her the emails and/or played the voice mails of these people agreeing to meet with her. Point was I wanted her to be comfortable contacting these people.

    I began to see her as woman friend, not so much a T&A distraction for my amusement. The reality is I was friendly with a stripper, not that I had a woman friend who happened to strip for a living. I wanted more of the latter than the former, but that's not what they're selling in SC. I stopped frequenting the club as much and haven't bought any dances from her in a couple of weeks. When I was last in the club, she pretty well shunned me.

    She once confided in me that there were me in the club she knew she could sell dances to, but chose not to as they were too much hassle. Seems I may have found myself on that list. Which is okay, but the part about being ignored really smarts of disrespect.

    Like I said, the energy shifted, probably more so on my end. I'm not about getting mad and getting even, but I am looking for some type of foil, some kind transition where I can reciprocate the disrespect proportionately without being an asshole. I get it, I made my bed and now I get to lie in it.

    Any suggestions?

    I just reviewed the beginning of the (342 post) "sentimental attachement" thread which you started talking about the same one yr or so ATF, and yet I cannot understand your timelines on what you are saying here.

    I guess you mean you tried to help her by giving her contacts and she ignored them THEN you stopped buying dances, THEN she shunned you?

    Or was she pissed off by you having invaded her zone of privacy?

    Or had you already stopped buying dances at the point in time you gave her those contacts?

  26. #23
    Member mcmillan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    A moot point now. She got fired.

  27. #24
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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    *yawns* get a clue dude.

  28. #25
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    Default Re: Energy Shift with ATF

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinaida View Post
    *yawns* get a clue dude.
    And your point is?

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