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Thread: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Likethis View Post
    It has to do with what I'm comfortable with and what disgusts me. I have no moral issues when it comes to what I do for money as long as it's legal.
    Legal and moral aren't necessarily the same thing. Law are not necessarily moral. It's just in your interests to follow them since it keeps you out of jail or from being fined.

    But I admit to thinking that I am way more moral than the person asking if he can fuck me in the ass while he's waving cash in my face. I just let that bastard admire the ass he'll never have as I walk away.

    Why is it morally wrong of him to ask that? Well, because he doesn't think the girl he has sex with has to like it/be attracted to him as long as he hand her the money. Now that's a sick mindset. I hate anything that implies that there is no need for mutual attraction/genuine consent when it comes to sex, I just hate it.
    It's offensive to offer a girl money for sex unsolicited in most situations. But I don't see why an exchange of money for sex is immoral. The girl doesn't have to be attracted to the guy to consent to it - obviously, as with a prostitute. The money takes the place of attraction on the girl's part.

    Personally though I also think that money for sex in place of mutual attraction is disdainful. But sick or immoral? A guy isn't sick if he likes a girl who doesn't like him back and the girl isn't sick for wanting or needing his money. The morality of it depends on your general view of what is sexually moral.

    I don't mind whores (as long as they don't do business in the stripclub), they do what they can to survive in this world like everyone else, there's nothing morally wrong with that. But someone who thinks it's ok to buy sex (someone who isn't naive and thinks the girl loves him, but realises that money is power) and support a view of sex that I despise will not get my respect. And certainly not my ass.
    That's a double standard. If you accept that a woman can sell sex then you should accetp that a man may buy it from her. Otherwise she can't sell it. If you recognise that the woman needs the money, then in one sense the manis giving her the opportunity to make money that she otherwise may not have.

    Money isn't power. Having the money to pay the woman doesn't give the man control of her. She is free to refuse his money. And since she needs his money anyway, she will voluntarily take it. Nor did he man put the woman in the circumstances which forced her to become a prostitute.

    However I agree that paying for sex is undesirable and unnatural, certainly in most real prostitution situations. A woman having sex with many men whom she is not attracted to each day is an ugly situation and mots men who seek prostitutes are not likely to be attractive or pleasant to be with.

    I guess to sum it up you could say I draw my line out of concern for how sex ( and consent, power and so on) is viewed and out of disgust.
    Last edited by Hopper; 04-23-2010 at 01:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenathefabulous View Post
    we are all perverts in the SC in my opinion. Hes a pervert, you're a pervert, I'm a pervert.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    In my opinion a girl can draw diffrent lines for diffrent reasons, desperation can mean lines get crossed all the time, or they can be ccrossed just because you actually like the guy your dancing for.

    my lines are there because i do not feel comfy breaking club rules and i do not feel comfy with any old person just randomly gropping me where and when they shouldnt, i am a dancer, therefore i dance, if i was a painting in a museum, would you stroke my artwork? no, why touch the art? its there for you to look at, a dance is for you to watch.

    If my line does ever go further than it is, i would most likly change profession to something that matched the line, i belive dancing is for the clubs, further is for escorts. i have no issue with girls in the sex indy, aslong as they dont do it in strip clubs. simple.

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopper View Post
    Legal and moral aren't necessarily the same thing. Law are not necessarily moral. It's just in your interests to follow them since it keeps you out of jail or from being fined.
    I agree with that, though a lot of laws do have a point. Often the point is moral. Don't kill, don't steal, don't misuse power etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hopper View Post
    The girl doesn't have to be attracted to the guy to consent to it - obviously, as with a prostitute. The money takes the place of attraction on the girl's part..
    And that's what I feel is wrong, it shouldn't be ok to have sex with someone who really doesn't want to have sex with you. If someone hates the thought of having sex with you you might still be able to convince that person with some money? No I don't think that's good. I find it sad that there are men (and some women) out there who think it's perfectly fine to have sex with someone who hates it. (Sorry I guess hate is a strong word... dislikes it?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopper View Post
    Personally though I also think that money for sex in place of mutual attraction is disdainful. But sick or immoral? A guy isn't sick if he likes a girl who doesn't like him back and the girl isn't sick for wanting or needing his money. The morality of it depends on your general view of what is sexually moral..
    Well English is not my first language so I don't know how strong feelings you put behind these words, words only have the meaning we give to them. Sick, well maybe not then... Immoral, yes, I think so based on my personal values. I think of it as a misuse of power.

    And I never said the girl is sick for wanting or needing his money, I don't think there's anything morally wrong with selling sex - it's just another way to survive and it is not hurting anyone else in a direct way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopper View Post
    That's a double standard. If you accept that a woman can sell sex then you should accetp that a man may buy it from her. Otherwise she can't sell it. If you recognise that the woman needs the money, then in one sense the manis giving her the opportunity to make money that she otherwise may not have..
    No it is not a double standard, because the woman is not inflicting pain on anyone - except, maybe, herself. Those who work under bad conditions are not necessarily doing something wrong by accepting these conditions as a means to to survive. The man who buys sex, however, knows that he has the upper hand and that the woman might not really want to have sex with him, but he thinks it's ok to have sex with her anyway. He thinks it's ok to have sex with someone who doesn't want to as long as he can pay for it. Well he's not the one who has to live with the trauma.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopper View Post
    Money isn't power. Having the money to pay the woman doesn't give the man control of her. She is free to refuse his money. And since she needs his money anyway, she will voluntarily take it. Nor did he man put the woman in the circumstances which forced her to become a prostitute..
    Are you kidding me?! Money is power! Money is a roof over your head, food, education, status. And it doesn't matter if the man put her in those circumstances or not, he's willing to have those circumstances work to his advantage and that is an immoral misuse of power.

    In my opinion.

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Everyman View Post
    People who don't know the business tend to think that strippers=whores and will do anything for a price. For most everyone that's not true...as I once said to someone, you're much more likely to find a whore in a strip club than a church, but it still might not be that easy. Even in pure strippering though, there are many lines to draw.

    Whether to work bikini, topless or nude. Whether/when to get naked in a nude club. Whether to spread (legs or yourself). How much contact to allow in a contact club. Whether to do "extras" (anywhere from over-the-clothes groping to BJs to FS or anywhere in between).

    Everyone who works draws some of these lines, somewhere. A lot let club rules draw them for them. Others differ.

    Why do you draw the line where you do? Is it morality? Most people seem to cite "personal comfort" or "I'm not comfortable with that" when saying where their line is. What's that mean? Morality? Why are you more moral than the girl who let's someone touch her pussy, when you allow boob groping but not pussy touching? Where's the moral line there?

    Anyway, where's your line, and why do you draw it there?
    Here's a question...why the hell does it matter why a stripper draws the line at something? Why should we have to explain ourselves? Because we don't fucking like it, plain and simple.

    For example, I don't like ketchup. If I'm at a barbecue and the person asks me if I want ketchup on my hot dog, I say no. The person doesn't proceed to ask me what my moral issue with ketchup is. We just move the fuck on.

    Just because there's a vagina involved doesn't mean it's any different.

    Me thinks someone is asking so they'll know the psychological reasons behind a girl's limit so they can try and get around it.

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Morals for me have nothing to do with any of it cuz if I wanted too i would. The thing is most people can not afford the amount it would takes for me to consider doing so appealing so if we are talking over 2 mill after taxes then forgetting I'm a lesbian who really is disgusted by the idea of having sex with anyone I don't find attractive & honest desire & would for free. Still if a hott chick I want to have sex with anyways offers me a tip I probably would take it as an added bonus no problems about it. My point is there has to be something attractive in it for me to turn me on enough to do it. The more grossed out i am by the idea the more some1 would have to pay. It's not that i don't have a price or judge those that are cheap or sell their bodies /sex it's just I don't want to unless it's gonna set up for life or i would anyways for free cuz I want the sex myself.

    Now if I was str8 and the same nepho I am I probably would just select my own custies that i found attractive enough to do so just to double the perks making money off what i enjoy, but I sure as hell wouldn't be a stripper and make the club money by doing so cuz I find that as stupid as a woman needing a pimp in order to sell her own pussy.

    Anyhow there it goes I strip cuz I enjoy teasing & making my money making guys want it in order to ultimately say no cuz it's my own lil power trip that turns me on & makes me money.

    Nothing against hoes , but I couldn't do it unless the money was so impressive that I could ingore my gag reaction. Maybe Brad Pit could talk my price down, but only if it was offering me a 3some w/ Angelina . Selling sex to women wouldn't work for me either cuz the 1's I find hott would never need to pay anybody even if a few just have enjoyed giving me money not to go to work, but that wasn't to fuck them it was to continue doing so or to try and buy my affections and play suga mommie w/me. However the sex is a given free to anyone I want and have had sex with so me turning pro and tricking not very likely.
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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Likethis View Post
    I agree with that, though a lot of laws do have a point. Often the point is moral. Don't kill, don't steal, don't misuse power etc.



    And that's what I feel is wrong, it shouldn't be ok to have sex with someone who really doesn't want to have sex with you. If someone hates the thought of having sex with you you might still be able to convince that person with some money? No I don't think that's good. I find it sad that there are men (and some women) out there who think it's perfectly fine to have sex with someone who hates it. (Sorry I guess hate is a strong word... dislikes it?)


    Well English is not my first language so I don't know how strong feelings you put behind these words, words only have the meaning we give to them. Sick, well maybe not then... Immoral, yes, I think so based on my personal values. I think of it as a misuse of power.

    And I never said the girl is sick for wanting or needing his money, I don't think there's anything morally wrong with selling sex - it's just another way to survive and it is not hurting anyone else in a direct way.


    No it is not a double standard, because the woman is not inflicting pain on anyone - except, maybe, herself. Those who work under bad conditions are not necessarily doing something wrong by accepting these conditions as a means to to survive. The man who buys sex, however, knows that he has the upper hand and that the woman might not really want to have sex with him, but he thinks it's ok to have sex with her anyway. He thinks it's ok to have sex with someone who doesn't want to as long as he can pay for it. Well he's not the one who has to live with the trauma.


    Are you kidding me?! Money is power! Money is a roof over your head, food, education, status. And it doesn't matter if the man put her in those circumstances or not, he's willing to have those circumstances work to his advantage and that is an immoral misuse of power.

    In my opinion.
    Prostitution and extras are not always, not even usually, for survival. Even then there are other ways to survive.

    Money is the power to buy things from willing sellers, it does not give a person control over others. If a woman's circumstances really do allow her no alternative to prostitution, it is the circumstances, not his money, which give the customer power over her, although she is still not obliged to do what he wants.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenathefabulous View Post
    we are all perverts in the SC in my opinion. Hes a pervert, you're a pervert, I'm a pervert.

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    It's a few things, for me at least.
    For one, most of my dancing career I have had a boyfriend. Doing "extras" would constitute cheating in my book. I don't cheat.
    Two, I don't want to get fired, or arrested.
    Three, I tried once the sugar daddy thing, I couldn't do it, I just cannot have sex with someone I'm not attracted to. Him touching me made my skin crawl. Maybe if I were single, it weren't against the rules and a really hot guy wanted to pay me big bucks to fuck him, I'd think about it, but those are just lines I can't cross.
    I don't feel I'm better than anybody, I just can't do things that would make me feel bad at the end of the night. Stripping, topless, full nude, working in the peep show doing toy shows, light grinding....doesn't bother me. Doing things I don't want to to make money, couldn't d it.

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderlust08 View Post
    Me thinks someone is asking so they'll know the psychological reasons behind a girl's limit so they can try and get around it.
    Me thinks the same thing. Honestly, this is exactly what popped into my head when I read the original post. I draw lines where I do when I start getting that sinking feeling in my stomach. I trust my gut. No amount of word manipulation or psychological trickery is going to get around that "I'm not okay with this" feeling in my chest.



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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Likethis View Post
    Well, because he doesn't think the girl he has sex with has to like it/be attracted to him as long as he hand her the money. Now that's a sick mindset. I hate anything that implies that there is no need for mutual attraction/genuine consent when it comes to sex, I just hate it.
    Actually, completely apart from prostitution, women have sex with men EVERY DAY for reasons other than "mutual attraction/genuine consent."

    Obligation, (non-sexual) gratitude, fear, loneliness, drunkiness, a place to live, general debauchery and thoughtlessness...the list could be endless. I know a girl in school who had sex with a guy because he begged EVERY SINGLE DAY, and she wasn't attracted, and she did it just to SHUT HIM THE FUCK UP.

    I don't see why "money" is any worse or better than any of these other reasons, when attraction is not present. In other words, I don't see it as immoral or "sick" at all, on either side.

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4everresolutions View Post
    Me thinks the same thing. Honestly, this is exactly what popped into my head when I read the original post. I draw lines where I do when I start getting that sinking feeling in my stomach. I trust my gut. No amount of word manipulation or psychological trickery is going to get around that "I'm not okay with this" feeling in my chest.
    Oh wow, your sig line, from JayATee...it's what I just said, and I don't see why it wouldn't apply to sex, just as much as "dancing".

    As for the OP intending to figure out psychological reasons for limits, OF COURSE. But "in order to get around them", no, that's not the purpose. I doubt I will ever meet any of you, and every girl is different.

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopper View Post
    Prostitution and extras are not always, not even usually, for survival. Even then there are other ways to survive.
    Do you have a source to verify that first statement?

    So if it is not something she does to survive it is ok to have sex with someone who hates it, as long as you pay? I think not.

    There are many out there who hate selling sex and though other options might exist they don't really (and there can be many reasons for this) consider them options, my point is that it is wrong to have sex with someone who hates it/doesn't want to. Prostitution is built on the customers sexuality and the sellers willingness to satisfy that sexuality - even if it means ignoring their own. As I've already said I think it's wrong to imply anything along the lines of "Ignore your own sexuality and have sex with me."


    Quote Originally Posted by Hopper View Post
    Money is the power to buy things from willing sellers, it does not give a person control over others. If a woman's circumstances really do allow her no alternative to prostitution, it is the circumstances, not his money, which give the customer power over her, although she is still not obliged to do what he wants.
    With the same kind of logic it is ok to buy sex from traffickingvictims. "He did not put her there so he can do whatever he wants, he is powerless and has no responsibility whatsoever. Don't accuse the poor horny man of being immoral."

    Let's agree to disagree.

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Everyman View Post
    Actually, completely apart from prostitution, women have sex with men EVERY DAY for reasons other than "mutual attraction/genuine consent."

    Obligation, (non-sexual) gratitude, fear, loneliness, drunkiness, a place to live, general debauchery and thoughtlessness...the list could be endless. I know a girl in school who had sex with a guy because he begged EVERY SINGLE DAY, and she wasn't attracted, and she did it just to SHUT HIM THE FUCK UP.

    I don't see why "money" is any worse or better than any of these other reasons, when attraction is not present. In other words, I don't see it as immoral or "sick" at all, on either side.
    Supply and demand honey, supply and demand.

    I'm not talking drunk people or mercyfucks, I'm talking about a huge industry with many victims and perpetrators. Yes money is different, this is an industry, there is such a thing as trafficking and so on.

    I think this discussion is over, we are talking about responsibility and sexuality on completely different levels.

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    I draw the line at anything beyond topless stage dancing.

    What a stupid question, btw. Why does it matter WHY our limits are where they are? I simply don't want guys touching me, and I don't want to feign intimacy with them, so I don't, and I don't have to explain WHY.

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by sorsi View Post
    I draw the line at anything beyond topless stage dancing.

    What a stupid question, btw. Why does it matter WHY our limits are where they are? I simply don't want guys touching me, and I don't want to feign intimacy with them, so I don't, and I don't have to explain WHY.
    No, you don't HAVE to. No one HAS to explain anything on this forum. I'm at no one's keyboard with a gun to their head making them type.

    And the question is more subtle than "why don't you let guys maul you." If you don't like it, that's pretty self-explanatory. But the question is about lines and boundaries. Many many many many girls (most?) won't dance topless on stage. Yet you will. Being willing to do that, why not the next step...or the next...or the next? That's the point of interest.

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Everyman View Post
    No, you don't HAVE to. No one HAS to explain anything on this forum. I'm at no one's keyboard with a gun to their head making them type.

    And the question is more subtle than "why don't you let guys maul you." If you don't like it, that's pretty self-explanatory. But the question is about lines and boundaries. Many many many many girls (most?) won't dance topless on stage. Yet you will. Being willing to do that, why not the next step...or the next...or the next? That's the point of interest.

    I can't blame you for asking the question. I find it very interesting too - I think it's just the initial way you came off (pun intended) in the OP. Sorta like you were trying to figure us out so you can know how to get around our boundaries. Probably why you got so many heated responses.

    I already answered, but I'll reiterate. If I start to feel queasy I know a boundary has been reached. And honestly it can vary from night to night depending on my mood. Sometimes I don't mind if guys maul the tittehs, some nights I don't want them to touch a hair on my head. Undoubtedly there are all sorts of cultural and biological factors that add up to result in what I'm comfortable with, and it varies from girl to girl. It would interesting and profitable to study indepth with proper research, but undoubtly impossible to do becasue of amount of variables and the fact that in this business, you can't trust anyones word.



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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Likethis View Post
    Do you have a source to verify that first statement?
    For one example, when brothels first were legalised here, I read a magazine article by a female reporter who interviewed the prostitutes at one brothel undercover - pretending to be one of them. Generally the girls were doing it for the fast money, to set themselves up in style, not at all out of necessity.

    Personally I don't know why any woman would do such a nasty job unless she absolutely had to, but it appears many girls are up to it.

    So if it is not something she does to survive it is ok to have sex with someone who hates it, as long as you pay? I think not.


    There are many out there who hate selling sex and though other options might exist they don't really (and there can be many reasons for this) consider them options, my point is that it is wrong to have sex with someone who hates it/doesn't want to. Prostitution is built on the customers sexuality and the sellers willingness to satisfy that sexuality - even if it means ignoring their own. As I've already said I think it's wrong to imply anything along the lines of "Ignore your own sexuality and have sex with me."
    Well your basis is not confined to the situation of prostitution as a business. There are a number of reasons I don't like regular prostitution, but they don't cover all individual cases and situations under which a man and a woman may make such an arrangement. It's something I leave to the individuals involved. In any given situation, what a woman is willing to do for money and whether a man is willing to pay for sex is up to them.

    With the same kind of logic it is ok to buy sex from traffickingvictims. "He did not put her there so he can do whatever he wants, he is powerless and has no responsibility whatsoever. Don't accuse the poor horny man of being immoral."
    That is not the logic I used. In the case of trafficking the woman is not consenting, she is being forced. It is wrong for the man to take advantage of that.

    Let's agree to disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athenathefabulous View Post
    we are all perverts in the SC in my opinion. Hes a pervert, you're a pervert, I'm a pervert.

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Why do u care? sit back and enjoy the show buddy

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmine22 View Post
    Why do u care? sit back and enjoy the show buddy
    A zoologist starts as a lover of animals, sitting back enjoying the show...but eventually he wants to understand the animal, its biomechanics, its chemistry, its neurology.

    It's still fun to sit back and watch a cheetah run, but I also want to understand what makes it run so fast, faster than a...water buffalo. Not mutually exclusive.

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    ^^lame.
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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Well, I'm probably one of the few that likes this question. I spend a lot of time analyzing myself and why I do things. I think understanding that helps me make better choices. I also understand taking a fascination to something and wanting to know more than the information commonly provided. I have provided a lengthy answer.

    I think this is a good break down of why I choose to do what I do (with morals and other considerations both):
    -Is it personal?
    -Can it harm me?
    -Does it feel unpleasant?
    -Ownership of my body

    It being personal:
    I consider kissing to be on almost the same level as touch my vagina. The reason is that kissing is a very personal thing for me. It's all about how and why I form certain connections. Some people are uncomfortable hugging a stranger, others are uncomfortable with kissing on the first date, or sleeping with someone before you know them well. The reason is that certain physical contacts are associated with emotional connection or put in the category of things that you do with your mate. By copying these behaviors with someone I feel that shadowed connection and I have to evaluate if this is someone that I want to connect with. Different types of touch have different levels of connection to me. A hug is beneath a peck on the cheek but above a handshake. In the same way, a touch on the back below a touch on the breast but above a touch on the forearm. In order to form a connection I require a certain amount of trust from the person for several reasons including knowing that they are not going to push things further against my will and that they are not going to use the connection as a means to hurt me emotionally. Intercourse is the highest physically induced connection I believe one person can have with another. I would not feel comfortable having sex with someone because of this. This category is probably the closest I come to strict "morals". I don't think in terms of a general right or wrong but rather what is right or wrong for me.

    Harm:
    Doing something illegal can prevent negative consequences if I am caught. This can cause many types of harm to me. I could have to pay a fine and have financial harm. I could spend time in jail and have physical harm, financial harm from missing work, and emotional harm from missing my loved ones. I can catch a disease and have primarily physical harm come to me. I could be raped and have physical and emotional harm come to me.

    Feeling unpleasant:
    Someone pinching my butt can feel unpleasant. Someone touching me can feel unpleasant. I mean these things as the purely physical sensation. Many instances that could fall into this category could also be applied in the first category, though this is a reason on its own.

    Ownership:
    My husband owns my body. I see it as him touching the areas that are his. I have gave it to him when I gave him myself when we married. Others are touching something that is his. He likes showing me off, but not much more than that. It's like showing off your new set of tools to your neighbor but not wanting him to do much more than borrow them briefly for a short simple task. You don't want him to get to explore and play with them.



    Now that I have explained the reasoning I will state where my "line" is.
    I am fine dancing fully nude. I am fine grinding on a customer when I am fully nude as long as they are fully clothed. I do not mind someone touching my back, arms, calves and ankles. I don't let me touch my stomach, feet, neck, face, thighs, butt breasts, or genitals (stomach and feet because they are ticklish, part of the unpleasant category and thighs same category but because most do it wrong). I won't give a hj or bj or have sex. I won't grope through the clothes. I won't kiss on the lips.

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    God/dess Athenathefabulous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Everyman View Post
    A zoologist starts as a lover of animals, sitting back enjoying the show...but eventually he wants to understand the animal, its biomechanics, its chemistry, its neurology.

    It's still fun to sit back and watch a cheetah run, but I also want to understand what makes it run so fast, faster than a...water buffalo. Not mutually exclusive.
    well then maybe you should go to the zoo, and when you get bored of looking at the cheetahs and water buffalos, then you should start reading the little plaques.

    im glad that your first analogy to wondering why we are not all whores is a reference to studying animals.
    The best thing i have heard in a strip club to date:
    customer: we should get married right now! we should get a shotgun marriage!
    me: uhh... i think you are misunderstanding what a shotgun marriage means. A shotgun marriage means you knock me up and my daddy shows up at your door with a gun and forces you to marry me and raise the baby. You mean elope.
    customer: hmm... nah actually i will take the shotgun marriage. At least then we would be having sex.


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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by girlundressed View Post
    Well, I'm probably one of the few that likes this question. I spend a lot of time analyzing myself and why I do things. I think understanding that helps me make better choices. I also understand taking a fascination to something and wanting to know more than the information commonly provided. I have provided a lengthy answer.

    I think this is a good break down of why I choose to do what I do (with morals and other considerations both):
    -Is it personal?
    -Can it harm me?
    -Does it feel unpleasant?
    -Ownership of my body

    It being personal:
    I consider kissing to be on almost the same level as touch my vagina. The reason is that kissing is a very personal thing for me. It's all about how and why I form certain connections. Some people are uncomfortable hugging a stranger, others are uncomfortable with kissing on the first date, or sleeping with someone before you know them well. The reason is that certain physical contacts are associated with emotional connection or put in the category of things that you do with your mate. By copying these behaviors with someone I feel that shadowed connection and I have to evaluate if this is someone that I want to connect with. Different types of touch have different levels of connection to me. A hug is beneath a peck on the cheek but above a handshake. In the same way, a touch on the back below a touch on the breast but above a touch on the forearm. In order to form a connection I require a certain amount of trust from the person for several reasons including knowing that they are not going to push things further against my will and that they are not going to use the connection as a means to hurt me emotionally. Intercourse is the highest physically induced connection I believe one person can have with another. I would not feel comfortable having sex with someone because of this. This category is probably the closest I come to strict "morals". I don't think in terms of a general right or wrong but rather what is right or wrong for me.

    Harm:
    Doing something illegal can prevent negative consequences if I am caught. This can cause many types of harm to me. I could have to pay a fine and have financial harm. I could spend time in jail and have physical harm, financial harm from missing work, and emotional harm from missing my loved ones. I can catch a disease and have primarily physical harm come to me. I could be raped and have physical and emotional harm come to me.

    Feeling unpleasant:
    Someone pinching my butt can feel unpleasant. Someone touching me can feel unpleasant. I mean these things as the purely physical sensation. Many instances that could fall into this category could also be applied in the first category, though this is a reason on its own.

    Ownership:
    My husband owns my body. I see it as him touching the areas that are his. I have gave it to him when I gave him myself when we married. Others are touching something that is his. He likes showing me off, but not much more than that. It's like showing off your new set of tools to your neighbor but not wanting him to do much more than borrow them briefly for a short simple task. You don't want him to get to explore and play with them.



    Now that I have explained the reasoning I will state where my "line" is.
    I am fine dancing fully nude. I am fine grinding on a customer when I am fully nude as long as they are fully clothed. I do not mind someone touching my back, arms, calves and ankles. I don't let me touch my stomach, feet, neck, face, thighs, butt breasts, or genitals (stomach and feet because they are ticklish, part of the unpleasant category and thighs same category but because most do it wrong). I won't give a hj or bj or have sex. I won't grope through the clothes. I won't kiss on the lips.
    You are clearly a very thoughtful person. Thanks for the response.

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by girlundressed View Post
    It being personal:
    I consider kissing to be on almost the same level as touch my vagina. The reason is that kissing is a very personal thing for me. It's all about how and why I form certain connections. Some people are uncomfortable hugging a stranger, others are uncomfortable with kissing on the first date, or sleeping with someone before you know them well. The reason is that certain physical contacts are associated with emotional connection or put in the category of things that you do with your mate. By copying these behaviors with someone I feel that shadowed connection and I have to evaluate if this is someone that I want to connect with. Different types of touch have different levels of connection to me. A hug is beneath a peck on the cheek but above a handshake. In the same way, a touch on the back below a touch on the breast but above a touch on the forearm. In order to form a connection I require a certain amount of trust from the person for several reasons including knowing that they are not going to push things further against my will and that they are not going to use the connection as a means to hurt me emotionally. Intercourse is the highest physically induced connection I believe one person can have with another. I would not feel comfortable having sex with someone because of this. This category is probably the closest I come to strict "morals". I don't think in terms of a general right or wrong but rather what is right or wrong for me.
    I agree. I am very strict on any form of physical contact with men. I do not kiss guys unless I feel something for them. I have gone on many dates where no form of affection happened, even a simple hug. I've gone places where celebs are and people are asking for hugs. I wouldn't feel comfortable about that personally. Not because those are sexual (they aren't) but because I am funny about affection in general. In the case of dating I hate when guys expect too much too soon. I wait to have sex before I am secure with a guy (I have decided to abstain from sexual intercourse until I get engaged, whenever that happens or if it does).




    Quote Originally Posted by girlundressed View Post
    Now that I have explained the reasoning I will state where my "line" is.
    I am fine dancing fully nude. I am fine grinding on a customer when I am fully nude as long as they are fully clothed. I do not mind someone touching my back, arms, calves and ankles. I don't let me touch my stomach, feet, neck, face, thighs, butt breasts, or genitals (stomach and feet because they are ticklish, part of the unpleasant category and thighs same category but because most do it wrong). I won't give a hj or bj or have sex. I won't grope through the clothes. I won't kiss on the lips.
    I think the instances where strippers kiss on the lips is disgusting. I think it's a personal act that I do with boyfriends. One thing that I don't think I could do is grind on a stranger nude. I think part of that comes from the fact I am from the older days where a dancer could make money doing air dances.

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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    ^^^ Score with air dances! I actually still sell air dances and table dances at times.
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    Default Re: Why Draw the Line Where You Do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Everyman View Post
    A zoologist starts as a lover of animals, sitting back enjoying the show...but eventually he wants to understand the animal, its biomechanics, its chemistry, its neurology.

    It's still fun to sit back and watch a cheetah run, but I also want to understand what makes it run so fast, faster than a...water buffalo. Not mutually exclusive.
    I still don't think you answered the question about why you care where each girl draws the line and why. This might make more sense if you could come up with a common boundary or reason for the boundary (which you will not) or if this information provided you with the magic bullet to overcome those reasons, but that won't happen either.

    IMHO every girl is different and has her own reasons for what she will and won't do. The reasons may include everything from legality, personal morality, relationship committments, disgust with the male gender, historical issues/experiences, money, any combination of the aforementioned, etc.

    Also, IME, no girl that has boundaries will leap across them regardless of how much artful persuasion is applied. I learned this lesson well (and at high $$$ cost) in my younger years.

    I look for certain things and take the time to find girls with boundaries that fit those needs, but don't really need to know more than what that particular girl's limits are.

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