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Thread: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

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    God/dess Athenathefabulous's Avatar
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    Skull So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    since its april 15 and estimated taxes are due..... i was wondering who else here feels like this .

    This is partly in jest, but my bank account does feel butthurt right now. Booo!
    The best thing i have heard in a strip club to date:
    customer: we should get married right now! we should get a shotgun marriage!
    me: uhh... i think you are misunderstanding what a shotgun marriage means. A shotgun marriage means you knock me up and my daddy shows up at your door with a gun and forces you to marry me and raise the baby. You mean elope.
    customer: hmm... nah actually i will take the shotgun marriage. At least then we would be having sex.


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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    So much for the idea of a "free world", right?
    Don't you ever sleep?
    Not at night...that's when the stars have rather better things to do. They're coming out, shining, that sort of thing.
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    God/dess Mr Hyde's Avatar
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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    I just paid 41000 dollars in tax on a bonus I just made. That killed me. KILLED me.

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    Veteran Member Citychick's Avatar
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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    I used to feel the same but now I look at it like this :
    The goverment is like my silent business partner it leaves me alone and let me get on with my thang and at the end of the year I give Mr tax Man a slice of the pie !!!!
    Sounds silly but it makes it easier to stomach (kinda!)

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    I just paid 41000 dollars in tax on a bonus I just made. That killed me. KILLED me.
    well, look at the bright side. With the tax rates slated to go into effect in 2011, the taxes would have been $50,000 instead of $41,000 ... plus an extra $5,000 if the bonus took your total income over the $200k per year level of being 'rich'

    PS there's lots of property available down here south of the border !!! Unfortunately, as of last month's passage of the 'jobs 2' law, if you try to bring your money with you the IRS will now hang onto 30% of it !

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    God/dess Mr Hyde's Avatar
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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    well, look at the bright side. With the tax rates slated to go into effect in 2011, the taxes would have been $50,000 instead of $41,000 ... plus an extra $5,000 if the bonus took your total income over the $200k per year level of being 'rich'

    PS there's lots of property available down here south of the border !!! Unfortunately, as of last month's passage of the 'jobs 2' law, if you try to bring your money with you the IRS will now hang onto 30% of it !
    That bonus actually boosted me in to the 33% tax bracket and would put me in Obama's "rich" category. Can't wait to pay those rates next year...yay.

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    God/dess Mr Hyde's Avatar
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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    I wouldn't mind paying the taxes I pay if I felt like it wasn't being wasted.

    But we just throw tons of money down a rat hole. It's going to be one of the downfalls of our nation.

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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Hyde View Post
    I wouldn't mind paying the taxes I pay if I felt like it wasn't being wasted.

    But we just throw tons of money down a rat hole. It's going to be one of the downfalls of our nation.
    Yep. I live in Illinois, one of the most corrupt states that keep saying they need to raise taxes. However what they never talk about is where that extra money goes, places like hiring additional government workers (who are all connected). I used to work for the transportation department here and they keep wanting more money for "services" yet the majority of their money goes to bonuses for the bigwigs (who are grossly overpaid). There a story on the news last night about Illinois hiring a "canoe czar" who would be paid around $100,000 to protect the rivers or something goofy. After people found out they were livid. Yet the idiot governor wants to raise taxes on everyone making $14,000 an year and if you are single like me, he thinks we should pay more. I'm so disgusted with both parties here that in November I am voting Libertarian.

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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Hyde View Post
    That bonus actually boosted me in to the 33% tax bracket and would put me in Obama's "rich" category. Can't wait to pay those rates next year...yay.
    Thirty years ago, the top tax rate was 70 percent.

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    Veteran Member Citychick's Avatar
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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    Thirty years ago, the top tax rate was 70 percent.
    Holy shit !

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    Thirty years ago, the top tax rate was 70 percent.

    Holy shit !

    Yes but ... 30 years ago a ton of legal 'tax shelters' existed that are no longer available today. 30 years ago a ton of tax deductions existed that are no longer available today ( how much lower would your taxes be if you could still deduct the cost of credit card fees and interest that you paid ?). Attempting to compare marginal tax rates then and now without also comparing these other differences leads to a false conclusion. And then there is a whole 'nuther issue of marginal tax rates on 'ordinary income' versus marginal tax rates on 'investment income' i.e. capital gains, dividends etc. where cap gains rates have never exceeded 33% over the past 30 years. Thus it was a fairly simple matter for a high earner to take a lower salary ( subject to a 70% top tax rate ) and instead take part of their pay in the form of stock shares / stock options ( subject to a 33% top tax rate).

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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Yes but ... 30 years ago a ton of legal 'tax shelters' existed that are no longer available today. 30 years ago a ton of tax deductions existed that are no longer available today ( how much lower would your taxes be if you could still deduct the cost of credit card fees and interest that you paid ?). Attempting to compare marginal tax rates then and now without also comparing these other differences leads to a false conclusion. And then there is a whole 'nuther issue of marginal tax rates on 'ordinary income' versus marginal tax rates on 'investment income' i.e. capital gains, dividends etc. where cap gains rates have never exceeded 33% over the past 30 years. Thus it was a fairly simple matter for a high earner to take a lower salary ( subject to a 70% top tax rate ) and instead take part of their pay in the form of stock shares / stock options ( subject to a 33% top tax rate).
    Ahhhh that makes sense.

    Melonie you are like the wikipedia of finance, boob jobs and all things cool !

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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Thus it was a fairly simple matter for a high earner to take a lower salary ( subject to a 70% top tax rate ) and instead take part of their pay in the form of stock shares / stock options ( subject to a 33% top tax rate).
    Getting paid in stock shares is the same as getting paid in dollars. If your employer pays you $5,000 worth of company stock, it's treated the same as being paid in cash. Capital gains only applies to any appreciation of stock after the employee receives it.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    again the 'rules have changed' over the years ... but even today the basic advantage still exists

    (snip)"Generally, options granted under an employee stock purchase plan or an incentive stock option (ISO) plan are considered statutory stock options (snip)

    (snip)"If you are granted a statutory stock option you generally do not include any amount in your gross income when you are granted or exercise an option [ i.e. exercising the option means receiving actual stock shares - sic]. However, you may be subject to Alternative Minimum Tax in the year you exercise an ISO. For more information, refer to the Form 6251 Instructions. You have taxable income or deductible loss when you sell the stock you received by exercising the option. You generally treat this amount as a capital gain or loss. "(snip)

    from

    Thus even today, an executive with a multimillion dollar income can be partially paid in statutory stock options ... with no tax liability in the current year for those stock options ( well, potentially some AMT tax). At some point in the future, when those options are exercised and the stock shares are sold, the 'profit' is taxed as a capital gain ( at a maximum 15% cap gains tax rate this year ... purportedly rising to 20% next year ).

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    the unofficial bottom line here is that America essentially operates two strategically different tax systems side by side. The first applies comparatively high tax rates to 'ordinary income' ... i.e. money earned from direct business profits or wages / salary. The second applies comparatively low tax rates to 'investment income' i.e. capital gains on the increased value of real estate / stock shares / commodities over time, dividends paid to 'part owners' of qualified companies ( i.e. via stock shares or direct partnerships ), interest payments on qualified bonds ( and especially so with tax free muni bonds ) etc. This approach 'penalizes' hard working people who are trying to become 'rich' ( because the majority of their incomes fall under the higher 'ordinary income' tax rates), and 'rewards' people who are already 'rich' ( because the majority of their incomes fall under the lower 'investment income' tax rates).



    I would also add that the approach that is clearly being taken by the US gov't to increase its total tax revenue dollars next year is to significantly increase tax rates on 'ordinary income' ... while proposing comparatively small tax rate increases on 'investment income'. Thus self-employed independent contractor dancer incomes are likely to experience a significant tax rate increase in the near future.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 04-17-2010 at 05:19 AM.

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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    again the 'rules have changed' over the years ... but even today the basic advantage still exists

    (snip)"Generally, options granted under an employee stock purchase plan or an incentive stock option (ISO) plan are considered statutory stock options (snip)

    (snip)"If you are granted a statutory stock option you generally do not include any amount in your gross income when you are granted or exercise an option [ i.e. exercising the option means receiving actual stock shares - sic]. However, you may be subject to Alternative Minimum Tax in the year you exercise an ISO. For more information, refer to the Form 6251 Instructions. You have taxable income or deductible loss when you sell the stock you received by exercising the option. You generally treat this amount as a capital gain or loss. "(snip)

    from http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc427.html

    Thus even today, an executive with a multimillion dollar income can be partially paid in statutory stock options ... with no tax liability in the current year for those stock options ( well, potentially some AMT tax). At some point in the future, when those options are exercised and the stock shares are sold, the 'profit' is taxed as a capital gain ( at a maximum 15% cap gains tax rate this year ... purportedly rising to 20% next year ).
    Given the stock market lost approximately 1/2 of its value during the 1970's, I doubt that stock options were very desirable back then.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    ^^^ you'll have to talk to LBJ or Jimmy Carter about that ... or wait another year for an Obama 'replay'. As pointed out above and in several other threads, tax changes are already in the works for 2011 such as an increase from 15% to 20% in the long term capital gains tax rate, such as a new 3.8% capital gains surtax to fund national health care etc., that will undoubtedly have a negative impact on US stock market valuations ( at least for US domiciled stockholders / option holders who are subject to those increased tax rates).

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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Hyde View Post
    I just paid 41000 dollars in tax on a bonus I just made. That killed me. KILLED me.
    Thanks for taking one for the team.

    I took one just like that for inheritance taxes (long ago before the gradual but temporary elimination of such) and one just before that on business capital gains. I surely don't feel the inheritance one was right.

    But either of those was a better deal than paying a huge sum over the years for finance company or credit card interest.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    the unofficial bottom line here is that America essentially operates two strategically different tax systems side by side. The first applies comparatively high tax rates to 'ordinary income' ... i.e. money earned from direct business profits or wages / salary. The second applies comparatively low tax rates to 'investment income' i.e. capital gains on the increased value of real estate / stock shares / commodities over time, dividends paid to 'part owners' of qualified companies ( i.e. via stock shares or direct partnerships ), interest payments on qualified bonds ( and especially so with tax free muni bonds ) etc.

    This approach 'penalizes' hard working people who are trying to become 'rich' ( because the majority of their incomes fall under the higher 'ordinary income' tax rates), and 'rewards' people who are already 'rich' ( because the majority of their incomes fall under the lower 'investment income' tax rates).
    This is what I was referring to a couple of months ago. The populists would rather see the opposite taxation strategy. Can't say that I blame them. Earned income should be considered more dear than unearned income, which is a really a frill for the rich because people give their lives for earning its limited amounts, while investors sit on their asses and just take risks with their excess money which can amount to many, many times over (even with higher taxes) what a worker, even a professional, can ever hope to make. It's the principles of multiplication and compounding. Once again business runs rough-shod over the populace.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    Well, IL SUCKS, in my opionion! Supposedly I owe this year, & they won't let me file an extension, unless I send in some $ w/it ( so's they can charge me late fees, etc. on top of penalties, etc.). I have a bad business/or non business debt (not sure) that I want to write off, when I can sit down w/someone that knows about this stuff. I already called the local yokes to ask about the extension, a hungry cobra would have spoken more kindly..


    MANY MEN WANTED TO LAY ME DOWN, BUT FEW WANTED TO LIFT ME UP

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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    ^^ There is a Fed form for deducting a bad business debt. I'm not aware of anything for personal loss, beyond gambling losses subtracted from winnings (so as the net does not become negative), etc.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: So who here feels like the government is their pimp?

    Right. It is def. not a personal loss, so far as I know, (sh** contractor leaving me w/lots of half & badly done work?). However, IL will not allow me to file an extension WITHOUT a payment attached..I do know & I will have to talk to an expert on this.


    MANY MEN WANTED TO LAY ME DOWN, BUT FEW WANTED TO LIFT ME UP

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