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Thread: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

  1. #1
    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    In NYC I sometimes hear/read stories about guys who gets taken in clubs for large $$$ on credit cards, usually drunk and signing whatever is put in front of them. A mix of truth and fiction for sure, but I hear it enough to believe that there is some fire under the smoke.

    What I witnessed in a club in NC, however, took the prize for me. There was a guy at the bar who was so drunk that he had passed out with his head and chest on the bar while still standing.

    A girl came over, woke him up, and talked him into a VIP. It took four tries for him to stumble to the stairs to VIP because he kept leaving behind his shoes. He'd walk across the club barefoot, stumble back when the girls yelled and pointed, put his shoes on, lose them again as he tried to walk (rinse, repeat). Finally, the dancer and a waitress worked together, one under each arm, to "help" him up the stairs, all the while the waitress had his CC in her hand.

    I wonder how much he charged to the card while he was "resting" up there?

    Now I think that he deserved what he got, but it was a real nature channel moment.

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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    As a dancer, credit cards are GREAT as long as the guy either gets his money from the ATM before he gets drunk (and forgets his pin number) or he just has to sign a slip.
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    Featured Member Chili Palmer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Now I think that he deserved what he got, but it was a real nature channel moment.
    Sorry, no one "deserves" what he got. Dude was out of it, and the only reason to be near his wallet is to find a driver's license so you can tell a cab driver where to take him.

    There's no excuse for this type of behavior. None. No amount of rationalizing by dancers and their apologists will make it any different. Oh look, there's an old lady cashing her SS check. Let's go roll her. She deserves it. I need the money.

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    God/dess Kylea2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    ^^^ Agreed, better he be in a good state of mind.

    Actually, I wonder if there have ever been any lawsuits over this type of thing? It seems very possible.
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    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Chili Palmer View Post
    There's no excuse for this type of behavior. None. No amount of rationalizing by dancers and their apologists will make it any different. Oh look, there's an old lady cashing her SS check. Let's go roll her. She deserves it. I need the money.
    Does the lion need an apologist when it pounces on the gazelle? Does it feel remorse about eating the gazelle that foolishly took a nap in an open field in the middle of the day?

    I hear and understand what you are saying but this was a grown man who should have known better. Frankly I chalk this one up as tuition.

    He's lucky he pulled that crap in NC, where the pricing structure is relatively gentle. If he did that in NYC, where champagne rooms can run $1,000 - 1,500 per hour (before special charges), he could have easily woken up $5k+ in the hole - of course with his signature on multiple progress slips throughout the night

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    Veteran Member jennsweet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    SWIPE MY ASSCRACK lol srsly, it's been a cash business forever, i can't imagine what the future brings

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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post

    Now I think that he deserved what he got, but it was a real nature channel moment.
    Actually any establishment that serves liquor has a legal responsibility to protect guys like this from themselves. When he sobers up he could file a complaint with the city licensing board against the club, the bartenders, the mangers and even the dancer for everything from criminal negligence to robbery if he has a good enough lawyer.

    He didn't deserve what he got. What he deserves is better treatment from a room full of "responsible" adults and business owners.
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    God/dess rickdugan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    Actually any establishment that serves liquor has a legal responsibility to protect guys like this from themselves. When he sobers up he could file a complaint with the city licensing board siting the club, the bartenders, the mangers and even the dancer with everything from criminal negligence to robbery if he has a good enough lawyer.

    He didn't deserve what he got. What he deserves is better treatment form a room full of "responsible" adults and business owners.
    State laws differ on that issue, and your state is notorious for trying to make other parties share responsibility for one's poor judgement, but I digress...I don't want to make this a political discussion. I have no idea how it is in NC (where the incident occured), but it wouldn't shock me if the laws were not quite as tight there.

    But I do take issue with the theory that the ultimate responsibility was anyone's but his. I agree that what the dancer (aided by the waitress) did was horrible, and would never condone it, but he brought it upon himself by: (1) getting that hammered in the club; (2) taking his credit card into a place like that; and (3) not having enough of a "mental trigger" telling him that it was time to get out before he passed out. Nobody held him down and forced the booze down his throat, and from what I could tell he reached into his own pocket and pulled out the CC.

    I have had nights where I drank too much and did dumb things in strip clubs, and I am sure that a girl or two over time could tell that I was getting loose, but I would never blame the results on anyone else but myself.

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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    State laws differ on that issue, and your state is notorious for trying to make other parties share responsibility for one's poor judgement, but I digress...I don't want to make this a political discussion. I have no idea how it is in NC (where the incident occured), but it wouldn't shock me if the laws were not quite as tight there.

    But I do take issue with the theory that the ultimate responsibility was anyone's but his. I agree that what the dancer (aided by the waitress) did was horrible, and would never condone it, but he brought it upon himself by: (1) getting that hammered in the club; (2) taking his credit card into a place like that; and (3) not having enough of a "mental trigger" telling him that it was time to get out before he passed out. Nobody held him down and forced the booze down his throat, and from what I could tell he reached into his own pocket and pulled out the CC.

    I have had nights where I drank too much and did dumb things in strip clubs, and I am sure that a girl or two over time could tell that I was getting loose, but I would never blame the results on anyone else but myself.
    Most states would have problems with this. I live in one of the more conservative states in the US and here the serving of a person in the state of public intoxication can cause the bartender/server to lose their server liquor license. There is a difference between drinkinf to much so that you do dumb stuff and this description of what was clearly public intoxication. Rule not often enforced unless DUI/OWI results with an accident but the CC customer could raise an issue.

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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    But I do take issue with the theory that the ultimate responsibility was anyone's but his.

    When did I say that the "ultimate" responsibility was not his?

    He should have been treated better and yes, helped, by the other grown-ups in the club. That's not a theory.

    You make a good point about what the laws may or may not be in the state where this occurred but the law and what is right are often two different things.
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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    I flashed mine which was stupid. Luckily, my score stayed in the mid 700's which to me says if that stripper had power in her hands she just couldn't bring herself to nuke me :p

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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    When sc's accept a credit card from someone in that shape they really run the risk of the customer rebuttaling the charge it's not a smart thing to do on the club's end.

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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    taking advantage of drunk men is the pillar of most every SC. it's where to draw the line, and most would draw it before carrying a near-comatose guy into the VIP.

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    Featured Member Chili Palmer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    ...but he brought it upon himself by: (1) getting that hammered in the club; (2) taking his credit card into a place like that...
    I see you're a proponent of the "She was wearing a provocative outfit so she was asking for it" school of thought. Nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    I have had nights where I drank too much and did dumb things in strip clubs, and I am sure that a girl or two over time could tell that I was getting loose, but I would never blame the results on anyone else but myself.
    Of course it's his fault for getting drunk. No one denies this, and, as someone who never drinks alcohol, I have little sympathy for people who do go way overboard in public. But that does not excuse the predatory behavior of the dancer and waitress in question.

    The answer to the biblical question "Am I my brother's keeper?" is supposed to be YES, we have a responsibility to watch for and take care of our fellow men (and women). Speaking as a sales professional who takes great pride in his work, I can tell you I've had multiple opportunities to abuse the advisor/client relationship through all the techniques and sales systems I've learned and committed to memory. But I have not ever nor will I sell someone something they neither need nor want simply because I can. I've walked away from potential $10,000 home improvement sales because what the customer wanted vs. what they needed to have done to make sure it worked correctly wasn't going to happen. True professionals don't take pride in ripping people off; they take pride in a top value added presentation and making sure their clients/customers feel that no matter what they paid, it was worth it, and, they would do it again and recommend their friends and family as well for that service. It's not about one and done, blow and go, taillight warranties or any other tripe. It's about doing what's right, even if there are no/little consequences if you do it wrong.

    You can be flip about this if you want; that is your prerogative as an SCJ poster and a person. Quite simply, for me, I have lived my life with a clear understanding between mala in se crimes (actions that are morally wrong in and of themselves) and mala prohibita crimes (actions are that wrong simply because they are prohibited). I often speed when I drive, that is an example of the latter. But I never steal what belongs to someone else (that would be the former), and, to bring this post back to a SC topic, have had multiple opportunities, as I am one of those guys dancers seem to trust, as they will leave their purse/uncounted money from the stage with me while they go to the bathroom or dressing room. I simply uncrumple their bills, put them in order (I'm a little OCD) and return them to the dancer when she comes back.

    CP

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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    State laws differ on that issue, and your state is notorious for trying to make other parties share responsibility for one's poor judgement, but I digress...I don't want to make this a political discussion. I have no idea how it is in NC (where the incident occured), but it wouldn't shock me if the laws were not quite as tight there.

    But I do take issue with the theory that the ultimate responsibility was anyone's but his. I agree that what the dancer (aided by the waitress) did was horrible, and would never condone it, but he brought it upon himself by: (1) getting that hammered in the club; (2) taking his credit card into a place like that; and (3) not having enough of a "mental trigger" telling him that it was time to get out before he passed out. Nobody held him down and forced the booze down his throat, and from what I could tell he reached into his own pocket and pulled out the CC.

    I have had nights where I drank too much and did dumb things in strip clubs, and I am sure that a girl or two over time could tell that I was getting loose, but I would never blame the results on anyone else but myself.
    This is analogous to the supposition that rape victims "asked" to be raped because got so drunk that they couldn't say no.

    The guy made a dumb decision and he shouldn't have gotten that shitty drunk in a SC, but deserved it? That's asinine.

    As for credit cards, I totally avoid using them because of what a buddy of mine had happen to him at a SC in Ft Lauderdale a while back. He did champagne room with a girl for about 20 minutes or so...and then when he got his CC bill, he'd be been charged over 700 bucks. Legitimately, there should have been maybe 150-200 charged.

    Since then, I avoid CC usage at strip joints. Don't want to tempt fate.

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    Featured Member Chili Palmer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    FYI:

    Certification in North Carolina

    The North Carolina Responsible Serving Course for bartenders, sellers, and servers will go over all the required information for learning to sell and serve alcohol in North Carolina and provide state-specific certification. The North Carolina course will cover topics such as how to spot someone who has been drinking too much, How to properly check IDs, and the responsibilities/liabilities of the server. The North Carolina Responsible Serving course features interactive learning through audio, videos, and text. Each lesson of the course deals with different areas that a bartender, seller, or server in North Carolina needs to be familiar with. At the end of each lesson interactive flashcards help with retention of the important details, and the lesson quizes test for knowledge of the area.

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    Featured Member Chili Palmer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylea2 View Post
    Actually, I wonder if there have ever been any lawsuits over this type of thing? It seems very possible.

    Civil Liability

    Civil liability allows individuals to bring suit against licensees, social hosts, or companies depending on where the problem occurred. Lawsuits can be filed by innocent victims injured by an intoxicated person or by the intoxicated person himself. Juries typically award monetary damages to compensate victims (compensatory damages) and to punish the offender (punitive damages). Awards can range from a few thousand to millions of dollars.

    Civil lawsuits are based on three basic forms of law.

    1. DRAM SHOP LAWS - Specific statutes that address liability issues only for liquor license holders. These statutes are intended to promote responsible alcohol service and provide a means for third parties to file suit for injuries and for fatalities resulting from a liquor law violation.
    2. COMMON NEGLIGENCE - These laws, although not specifically defined, address negligent behavior with negligence being defined as not doing what any reasonable person could be expected to do under a certain set of circumstances. With regard to alcohol, it is assumed that a person (server/seller) can be expected to follow a set of procedures and if he/she fails to do so, the server/seller has acted negligently.
    3. SOCIAL HOST - Specific laws stating that social hosts (hosts of a party, function, etc.) who provide alcohol to their guests can be held responsible for the actions of their guests if alcohol has been served improperly.
    The laws in each state vary, so check with your local liquor board to find out which laws apply in your state.

    Criminal Liability

    Criminal liability allows the state to bring suit against the licensee or owner of a licensed establishment, individuals employed by that establishment, social hosts or employers. These suits, unlike civil suits, address the criminal aspect of serving alcohol irresponsibly. A common form of criminal liability involving alcohol would be a case brought by the state against an intoxicated person who injures or kills an innocent third party. The state would typically also charge the person or persons who served alcohol to the intoxicated person.

    NOTE: Many cases involving injury or death result in both civil and criminal charges. The cases would be decided independently, and the penalty in either case is not dependent on the other. Also, while a civil suit typically carries a monetary judgment, the result of a criminal suit can be prison time.

    Administrative Liability

    Administrative liability applies to the holder of a liquor license and to servers/sellers who possess a permit to serve or sell alcohol in that state. The licenses and permits are granted by state liquor control boards, which set the administrative penalties for non-compliance of government regulations. Penalties for violating the terms of a liquor license or the conditions associated with a server/seller permit can include fines, suspension of the license/permit or even revocation of the license/permit. Suspension of a license/permit will mean lost revenue for the period of the suspension, as well as damage to the establishment's or that of the server/seller's reputation and image. Revocation of a license/permit can result in a business having to close its doors or the server/seller becoming unemployed.

    Administrative liability is usually the first form of liability that licensees and their employees will experience. Common grounds for these penalties include failing to check IDs, serving an underage patron, and serving an intoxicated patron.

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    God/dess Kylea2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    ^^^ That answers one question, yes, it is possible. What about a case where this has happened?
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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    ^^suits like this definitely have to have happened based on the fact that the deja vu chain (at least the deja vu owned clubs on bourbon st) has so many fucking rules when it comes to credit card signings. srsly, if the signature on the reciept doesnt exactly match that on the drivers license, they wont accept it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hernando View Post
    taking advantage of drunk men is the pillar of most every SC. it's where to draw the line, and most would draw it before carrying a near-comatose guy into the VIP.
    yea, exactly where to draw the line is tricky. i guess at the deja vu clubs the line is drawn by when a customer can or cannot copy their signature on to a receipt. but considering they are strict to the point where customers who havent even had a drink might struggle to meet this requirement, i think this line is excessive.

    but customers need to be drunk, to a degree. and dancers need to take advantage of these drunk guys, to a degree. and most importantly, a lot of customers want a fun and drunken experience. However, this situation was essentially robbery... and the staff should feel ashamed of themselves for doing this. I wonder how the replies would be if this guy walked down a dark alley in this state of mind and got mugged... it seems to me what the SC staff did was along the same lines, albeit less violent.

    so i am wondering, where do you guys propose the line should be drawn? its not like we are going to start administering breathalyzers or some shit...
    The best thing i have heard in a strip club to date:
    customer: we should get married right now! we should get a shotgun marriage!
    me: uhh... i think you are misunderstanding what a shotgun marriage means. A shotgun marriage means you knock me up and my daddy shows up at your door with a gun and forces you to marry me and raise the baby. You mean elope.
    customer: hmm... nah actually i will take the shotgun marriage. At least then we would be having sex.


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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    He didn't deserve it. However I have been party to similar fleecings in the past. Can't say I'm proud of it.

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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by money maker View Post
    When sc's accept a credit card from someone in that shape they really run the risk of the customer rebuttaling the charge it's not a smart thing to do on the club's end.
    Yep. Stuff like that is why anyone who uses a credit card at a strip club can expect a nice 20% surcharge on top of their purchase. Case in point.

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...ess-suit_x.htm
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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    To all:

    When quoting from any other site please provide a link. In other words, just don't copy and paste text without providing attribution to the source.

    Thanks,
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    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    ^^^ Good point, I've had my work copied/stolen before and it bites!
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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    Kylea, my post was more of a housekeeping thing..no malfeasance suggested. It's just best to acknowledge the source.

    FBR
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    Default Re: Credit Cards in Strip Clubs

    FBR=just checked out Kylea's links in her siggy. Oh my goodness My 5th wood this year. Considering my age, that is a good thing

    FBR
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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