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Thread: what exactly goes on your record if you are popped by vice?

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    Default what exactly goes on your record if you are popped by vice?

    I'm certain it varies state by state but whats the reality check here?

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    Default Re: what exactly goes on your record if you are popped by vice?

    Depends what you were doing and if it gets negotiated down.
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    Default Re: what exactly goes on your record if you are popped by vice?

    The consequences are usually a fine (usually under $1,000), a license suspension (for states that require such documents) and in the worst case scenario (after being caught a handful of times) some jail time (usually less than 60 days).

    It can go on your record as a misdemeanor prostitution charge or a dancer violation (which I don't believe goes on your record).

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    Veteran Member dtxgirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: what exactly goes on your record if you are popped by vice?

    In Texas the laws are harsher than WA.

    Definition of Prostitution - Texas Penal Code

    § 43.02. PROSTITUTION.
    (a) A person commits an offense if he knowingly:
    (1) offers to engage, agrees to engage, or engages in sexual conduct for a fee; or
    (2) solicits another in a public place to engage with him in sexual conduct for hire.
    (b) An offense is established under Subsection (a)(1) whether the actor is to receive or pay a fee. An offense is established under Subsection (a)(2) whether the actor solicits a person to hire him or offers to hire the person solicited.
    (c) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor, unless the actor has previously been convicted one or two times of an offense under this section, in which event it is a Class A misdemeanor. If the actor has previously been convicted three or more times of an offense under this section, the offense is a state jail felony.

    But essentially: First offense up to 180 days and/or $2,000, 2nd up to 1 yr and/or $4,000, 3+ 180 days-2 yrs and/or $10,000 (First offense is a class B misdemeanor, 2nd A misdemeanor, 3+ is a state jail felony)

    This is a kick ass link that shows what states charge you. Scroll down to find your state.

    http://prostitution.procon.org/view....rceID=000119#t

    If you have a good lawyer you may be able to get it negotiated down to a lesser charge. Keep in mind that you if prosecuted and convicted, you are also considered a sex offender (in some states) and may have to register as such. Depending on your part of the country, the crime could be either prostitution, solicitation, or (and this one is funny in a morose way to me) " Crimes against nature"

    http://www.theagitator.com/2010/01/2...sex-offenders/

    It all depends on your location, the cop, and what you were offering.

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    Default Re: what exactly goes on your record if you are popped by vice?

    ^^^ yeah Texas laws are unbelievable. I once heard of an incident where two dancers were working the stage together with customers tipping at the rail. One dancer touched the other dancer's breast, and a vice cop busted both of the dancers for prostitution on the spot. Under Texas law, the dancers engaged in 'sexual contact' ( i.e. touching breast ) in exchange for money ( customers tipping at the stage rail ). Texas law has no requirement that the person paying the money also needs to be the person engaged in the 'sexual contact'.

    As to the specific charge, take your pick ... misdemeanor prostitution, misdemeanor lewd conduct, misdemeanor violation of a local strip club ordinance, misdemeanor violation of state alcohol agency distance rules while (partially) unclothed. The common denominator is that, with very few exceptions, all of these charges are considered to be sexually related misdemeanors.

    Of course this also creates a 'moral hazard' situation where a dancer coming too close to a customer or taking tips with her boobs on stage potentially faces the same legal penalties as if she were giving HJ's, BJ's or FS in the private dance area !!!

    Your first option is to simply plead no contest / guilty ... which will leave you with a black mark on your record, but will probably get you released on your own recognizance with maybe some probation time and a medium sized fine.

    As Kylea points out, in many instances busted dancers will also be given the opportunity to accept a plea bargain. This usually guarantees no jail time, and often also involves the club agreeing to pay the dancer's fine ( if the club's attorney arranges the deal with the DA ) ... but from a legal standpoint copping the plea is equivalent to a guilty verdict. The real reason that club attorneys are so co-operative with negotiations and fine money is that another ( secret ) part of your deal will be that the DA agrees to drop any charges against the clubowner !!!

    If you don't like either of the above alternatoves and choose to plead innocent, you will wind up having to pay $500 or so in bail to avoid immediate jail time ... which MAY have to come out of your own pocket if you are refusing a club attorney negotiated plea bargain. At that point a jury trial court date is scheduled before a local good-ol-boy judge and a jury probably consisting of housewives, retirees, civil servants etc ( in other words people who aren't busy enough with their jobs to try and avoid jury duty ). You will then get a public defender to handle your case and a chance to tell your side of the 'story', but the well respected local cop who busted you will also get to tell his side of the 'story' ... which may or may not be factual !!! It is then up to the jury to decide to either believe a 'stripper' or a local cop. If the jury finds you guilty ( which is highly probable ), you may then face a $1000 fine plus a week to a month's worth of jail time.

    When that happens, you have two choices ... pay the fine and do the time, or employ your own private attorney to file an appeal on your behalf. In appeals court there is no jury only judges. Those judges WILL look at the evidence ( or lack thereof ) and you have a very good chance of having the original charges dropped and your record wiped clean. However, the kicker is that the legal fees to file an appeal will probably be at least $5,000 up front ... and WILL have to come out of your own pocket.

    Trust me I've been there in regard to bogus busts ... which are highly prevalent during election years when an out-of-state feature dancer would make an easy target ( I think the most famous local headline I got was 'Big Bust Bust at ____' . I've also wound up ponying up the $5,000+ in legal fees to have a well connected local attorney file and appeal ... which I have always won once the evidence is examined seriously in appeals court, as opposed to some housewives deciding to deal out some 'revenge' on their club customer husbands or some retirees deciding to send a message that they don't like a strip club down the street by finding the dancer guilty in a local court trial.

    Ultimately, this is just one more cost of doing business. Obviously a travelling dancer / feature who must deal with dancer's license applications in a lot of different cities cannot accept a black mark on her record from a bogus bust ... even if it costs big bucks in legal fees to avoid.

    And while we're on the subject of black marks on permanent records, because there are so many differences between laws in different states and cities, in most cases if a future 'straight job' employer decides to do a background check the response that will pop up for a private investigator / non-local LE agency will be 'sexually related misdemeanor'. Based on that response, the prospective 'straight job' employer has no way of knowing what the girl was actually doing in order to be busted. Obviously that girl will get the chance to explain the charge to the potential 'straight job' employer during a face to face interview ... but the risk is that if a 'sexually related misdemeanor' charge pops up during the investingative phase that the girl will never be called for a face to face interview ( her job app will simply 'fall off the desk' ).

    Perhaps most insidious of all is that with ever 'tightening' laws regarding 'sex offenders', in some states it is possible that having a 'sexually related misdemeanor' on your record could force you to comply with draconian local 'sex offender' laws ... i.e. not allowed to live at an address that is within X distance of a school / park / playground ... having to report to local LE when you come into or leave an area ... having to knock on neighbor's doors for a block around your address to personally inform each of them that you are a 'sex offender' etc.

    !~
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-14-2010 at 02:12 PM.

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    Default Re: what exactly goes on your record if you are popped by vice?

    ^^^ I Alabama I've seen club owners pay the dancers' fines. In Colorado the dancer & the club are both fined... and I've NEVER seen the club pay a dancer's fine.
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    Default Re: what exactly goes on your record if you are popped by vice?

    Yup. Crazy.

    Also, texas vice has so many wacky laws. I know a girl (and I was there the night this happened) who ordered and paid for a drink herself while she was talking to the guy who turned out to be vice. In Dallas it's illegal to ask a custy to buy you a drink.

    She got ticketed for buying herself a drink cause she didn't phrase the way she ordered it correctly. CRAZY.

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    Default Re: what exactly goes on your record if you are popped by vice?

    ^^^ Colorado has that same law. All the VCGH clubs here have signs telling the girls they can't solicit for food, drinks or other goods.

    I've never seen anyone get ticketed on it though.
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    Default Re: what exactly goes on your record if you are popped by vice?

    I Alabama I've seen club owners pay the dancers' fines. In Colorado the dancer & the club are both fined
    The 'smarter' managed clubs routinely have their attorney try to negotiate a 'package deal' with the local DA ... i.e. if the club's attorney can convince dancers to cop a plea, the DA drops charges against the club in exchange. This costs the club the dancer's fine money, but saves the club some element of legal fees in having to defend itself, plus ( increasingly more important ) allows the club to escape an official record of illegal activities by the club being created. The latter is a very big deal if and when a local crusade gets underway to close strip clubs / pass new and stricter local anti-strip club ordinances etc.

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    Default Re: what exactly goes on your record if you are popped by vice?

    jeeez..

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    Default Re: what exactly goes on your record if you are popped by vice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    The 'smarter' managed clubs routinely have their attorney try to negotiate a 'package deal' with the local DA ... i.e. if the club's attorney can convince dancers to cop a plea, the DA drops charges against the club in exchange. This costs the club the dancer's fine money, but saves the club some element of legal fees in having to defend itself, plus ( increasingly more important ) allows the club to escape an official record of illegal activities by the club being created. The latter is a very big deal if and when a local crusade gets underway to close strip clubs / pass new and stricter local anti-strip club ordinances etc.
    Makes me wonder why VCGH doesn't do that though? I mean they have plenty of clubs and plenty of money... wait, nevermind you answered that in the first few words. LOL
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    Default Re: what exactly goes on your record if you are popped by vice?

    Whatever you are convicted for. If you are not convicted then nothing. Just be sure to check and make sure it's gone.

    If any one here ever gets a ticket or citation fight it like your life depended on it.

    If a lawyer tells you to plea guilty get a continuance and find a lawyer that will fight for you.

    There is zero reason for you to plead guilty if you are 100% innocent.




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    Default Re: what exactly goes on your record if you are popped by vice?

    There is zero reason for you to plead guilty if you are 100% innocent
    In a perfect world, yes absolutely. In the 'real' world of law enforcement, 'good ol boy' local judges, and 'jealous housewife' jury members, perhaps not. Allow me to reiterate bluntly.

    If a dancer is busted, in the absence of 'hard evidence' to the contrary - i.e. a club security camera tape clearly showing that a dancer did NOT engage in the contact a cop claims she did - her legal guilt or innocence is almost always going to come down to a decision by jury members in a local courtroom as to whether to believe a well respected local cop or believe a 'stripper'. So in a real world scenario, simply choosing to plead innocent and going into local court with a public defender is highly likely to result in a guilty verdict. However, the actual penalties imposed by that local court / judge are likely to be fairly severe ( within the limits of potential fines and jail time proscribed for the 'crime' ). In other words, if a busted dancer pleads innocent and loses in local court, odds are that her fine could be in the $2000 range and its possible that that she may wind up serving a week of jail time, and may wind up with fairly burdensome supervised probation conditions to boot. This takes place because the jury members ( and sometimes local judge ) want to 'send a message'.

    In contrast, if the busted dancer agrees to plead guilty, thus saving the time and money of the DA's office / public defender's office / local court / jury necessary to try her case, she can often wind up with a $1000 or smaller fine, can wind up doing no jail time, and can probably wind up with a reasonably short probation. And in a club attorney arranged plea bargain scenario, if the busted dancer agrees to accept the plea bargain she can often wind up with the club paying her fine, can wind up doing no jail time, and can probably wind up with no probation ( or at least unsupervised probation).

    Bottom line here is that choosing to plead innocent and trusting fate in a local courtroom probably has a 90%+ probability of the busted dancer being found guilty regardless of her true guilt or innocence ... but with more expensive fines, the distinct possibility of some jail time, and a more burdensome probation as the 'cost' of exercising her legal right to a jury trial in a local court. And her permanent record will reflect the same black mark as if she had chosen to plead guilty. In the case of turning down a club attorney arranged plea bargain deal, accepting the plea bargain may have resulted in her criminal record actually listing a lesser charge than the charge she was busted for. So yes there are 'real world consequences' when choosing to plead innocent.

    Now if the busted dancer is truly innocent, and ALSO has the ability to spend $5,000+ out of her own pocket on a private attorney, then the equation changes. Yes she will go through the local trial and probably be found guilty. But instead of accepting the local court's sentence in terms of fine money, jail time, and probation conditions, she then is able to have her private attorney file an appeal to a higher court. Once her case is reviewed by the higher court's panel of judges ( there is no jury involved ), the REAL evidence against the dancer ( or lack thereof ) will be used to determine her guilt or innocence. Odds are that in the absence of 'hard evidence' - i.e. LE pictures or recordings of laws being broken by the dancer - the appeals court will reverse the local court, dismiss the charge, and wipe clean the busted dancer's permanent record. But getting to this point of an appeals court 'undoing' everything that has happened since the dancer was originally busted is going to cost her big bucks !!!

    I went through this scenario myself, and between the legal fees, the lost nights of work ( it's not a good idea to be dancing until 3am and then appear in a courtroom 5 hours later !), travel expenses etc. it probably cost me close to $10,000 to 'prove my innocence'. In my own case, A. I absolutely needed a squeaky clean criminal record in order to obtain / renew dancer's licenses in various cities across the country in able to work in those cities in the future, and B. I could afford the cash to retain a very well connected local attorney who had enough 'horsepower' with state courts / judges to virtually assure a successful appeal ( actually, the legal fees are deductible against taxes as a professional service business expense ).

    However, for local club dancers who do not ever need to worry about obtaining a dancer's license in Atlanta or Vegas or an increasing number of other cities with dancer's licensing laws, and for local club dancers for whom $5,000+ is a seemingly impossible amount of money to instantly come up with ( private attorneys will not extend 'credit' to a dancer to defend them now but pay later !), then the 'real world' differences in out of pocket costs / legal consequenses involved when choosing to plead innocent versus pleading guilty ( or accepting a plea bargain ) may bear some serious deliberation.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-16-2010 at 06:59 AM.

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    Default Re: what exactly goes on your record if you are popped by vice?

    ^^^ Another reason why I love clubs WITH video cameras.

    However ladies, don't become too dependent on the cameras. Many clubs these days put up fake video cameras or disconnect their cameras... which does nothing to help you obviously.
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