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Thread: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

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    Default Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    Did you know that many college degrees are "failing to lift young grads out of poverty"? Read on for the ugly truth!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_605616.html

    More young adults from low-income backgrounds are enrolling in college than ever before -- but the receipt of a college degree doesn't necessarily boost them out of poverty, a new study (.pdf) reports.

    From the comments section:

    (snip)When I went to school, all my life I was told "Get good grades, go to college, get a good job." It was a mantra repeated from elementary school all the way through High School. Join clubs, do sports, be active, so it looks good on your transcripts. Take (and re-take) your ACTs and SATs for a good score. An entire generation was raised on this advice, repeated from parents, teachers, and other "trustworthy" adults.

    Guess what? Those jobs we were promised don't exist. Teachers are being laid off nationwide. Graphic Artists need experience to get a job (where do you get the XP I wonder?), Its impossible to get into nursing, the wait list here is 2 years! There is 55 applicants for each tech job applied for, many with years of experience that a fresh-faced college kid can't compete with. His only chances are working part-time jobs (many firms are replacing 1 full time for 2 parts, saves money) or seek employment far below their education.

    These aren't liberal arts majors, these are people who went into college, guided by career counselors who "knew what they were talking about" and chose jobs they thought they wanted to do. Solid, middle-class jobs. We were sold the New American Dream; service jobs replacing manufacturing. The only service jobs open is at Wal Mart and McDonalds. In short: we were lied to. An entire "lost generation". Which is what the rich-elites always wanted. (snip)
    “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE

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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    Um, the whole quote above is from the comments section, just opinion.

    This study just shows that more low-income people are currently ENROLLED or TRIED AND FAILED to graduate college than eight years ago. But the number of GRADUATES at the poverty line is the same. Therefore, this shows more poor people are trying to go to school, but that it is harder for them to graduate college.

    See: "The report, titled "A Portrait of Low-Income Young Adults in Education," and conducted by the Institute for Higher Education Policy, said that poor students are at an automatic disadvantage in a college setting due to lack of preparation and susceptibility to debt."

    "Eleven percent of [the low-income people] had earned a degree, a proportion roughly equivalent to that eight years ago." So, poverty with a college degree has not changed.

    That's ALL this study says. Even the actual title of the article itself is misleading once you read the contents. Let's not be reactionary!

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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    sorry, i'm just as afraid of the job market as the next girl ... but i hate seeing scientific studies twisted to make headlines!

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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    My opinion is more people need to learn actual skills and trades. Like, jeez America. Produce something tangible.

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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    Quote Originally Posted by lilblondie View Post
    Um, the whole quote above is from the comments section, just opinion.

    This study just shows that more low-income people are currently ENROLLED or TRIED AND FAILED to graduate college than eight years ago. But the number of GRADUATES at the poverty line is the same. Therefore, this shows more poor people are trying to go to school, but that it is harder for them to graduate college.

    See: "The report, titled "A Portrait of Low-Income Young Adults in Education," and conducted by the Institute for Higher Education Policy, said that poor students are at an automatic disadvantage in a college setting due to lack of preparation and susceptibility to debt."

    "Eleven percent of [the low-income people] had earned a degree, a proportion roughly equivalent to that eight years ago." So, poverty with a college degree has not changed.

    That's ALL this study says. Even the actual title of the article itself is misleading once you read the contents. Let's not be reactionary!

    Umm, the whole quote above is NOT from the comments section. There are two quotes. The first quote is a small snippet of the article. The second snippet I introduced by writitng " THIS IS FROM THE COMMENTS". Do ya' think I'm out to fool you?

    BTW, you might want to re-read what I wrote. I didn't say the percentage of poor grads is higher. I'm making the statement that being a grad is not a guarantee of more money. You have to do your research into how much you will make and won't make after graduation. Many degree demanding jobs pay the same or less than what we make. So don't take on an assload of debt to get ahead until you know that you've picked well. And to echo Viola, you can just as easily learn other skills that will pay off with lower tuition and shorter course duration.

    Here's the original article. No smoke and mirrors.
    http://www.ihep.org/assets/files/pub..._Education.pdf
    Last edited by Optimist; 06-09-2010 at 11:29 AM.
    “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE

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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimist View Post
    Umm, the whole quote above is NOT from the comments section. There are two quotes. The first quote is a small snippet of the article. The second snippet I introdused by writitng " THIS IS FROM THE COMMENTS". Do ya' think I'm out to fool you?
    Nope i don't

    Sorry, I said "the whole quote" cause the part above it is just the article title and the subtitle not trying to get down on you at all! like i said, i just hate exaggeration ... and i hate seeing it spread!

    I just wanted to point out especially that the quoted part is just opinion ... because it's a point of view that isn't supported by the article or the study ... more like a rant "inspired by" the article.

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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    I've always wanted to go to college and get a 'real job', but the more time passes the more I'm beginning to think my real job should be dancing.



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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    The article is called "College Degrees Fail To Lift MANY Young Adults Out Of Poverty". That's true. They didn't say "Degrees lift NONE Out Of Poverty". They didn't say "Degrees Lift LESS Young Adults Out of Poverty". There's really no sleight of hand here. Relax, guys. This is the darker information that they don't share in Admissions. For some people it will save them from spending cash they'd be better off spending on other jobs that pay just as well for less investment.

    If it helps, I'll share my story. I went to college for Psychology for three years when I found out from people in the field that I would have to get a Masters at least to make any real money. I saw just how small that "real" money was and the political realities that go with establishing yourself. I really wished my advisors had shared that info in my Freshman year instead of getting me gassed up with only half the story. For me, performing was a better way to go. It gave me the freedom and earning power I needed.

    I think there should be a revolution in how schools educate. They should tell you upfront what the prevailing wages are for the fields students choose. They should tell you the unglamorous practical things so you make an informed decision. I started out as a Journalism major and thank God my professor kept it real and told us how badly it paid so I didn't get waylaid for long but every instructor is not so conscientious.
    Last edited by Optimist; 06-09-2010 at 12:08 PM.
    “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE

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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    I am mixed on this, but for the most part it's true. It does leaves out a lot. For one thing, the problem is everyone is being pushed towards college when not everyone should be. Kids who don't have good grades shouldn't go to college. Colleges have become so common that they have added remedial classes for these students who never should have gone to college. Because of this not only are other students being left behind in college, they are finding that all that hard work in college often doesn't pay. I graduated with my masters and a 3.7 (which is impressive at this level) but still unable to find a job because degrees have become common. Luckily though even colleges that have open admission are much stricter when it comes to graduate school and everyone I knew in grad school were all top of the line. I expect graduate school to become open admission as college has become though within a few years.

    I'll be very honest and mention that I made much more money dancing than I have in most professional jobs. I remember my first paycheck in a professional job and saw I made about $600 a week. I've made that in one night dancing.

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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    ^^^^Yeah, that's what I was getting at. I was caring for pretty sick people and making $8.00 to start and the site manager was making about $12! I got props for my job but I was eating ramen! LOL! It just seemed silly to keep going into debt for that.

    My goal with this thread is to bring some light to everyone's attitude about the job. Although every club isn't lucrative, many are. We can still be comfortable as long as we live well within our means. I think there's reason to be proud of doing this job that pays as much or more than many "legit" jobs and being smart enough to avoid the trap of living an approved life. We've taken the power and are using it and working our one woman businesses! There's reason to be proud of keeping afloat when so many others aren't.
    “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE

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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    I'm completely happy dancing until I'm well into the thirties. I could never find a job that pays me a six figure salary without spending at least $500k in debt.

    I plan on starting a business when I stop dancing. That requires no real degree; just a few classes here and there.

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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    Thanks for this post. All you have to do is go to the "i need a freakin' job" website to see all of the college grads who can't get a job.
    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...69&topic=16287

    A lot of people who did what they thought they were supposed to do, feel like they have been scammed - and with good reason. Plus the fact that u.s.a. born citizens are discriminated against via employer mandated credit report checks in these so called "real jobs". http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...69&topic=16462

    One of the biggest problems we are facing in the US now is employment credit checks. Thank God bars and stripclubs don't do this. There is a big movement to out law this practice.----

    "H.R. 3149, the Equal Employment for All Act, would prohibit the use of consumer credit checks against prospective and current employees. It would also help in the fight against human trafficking. Here is a link to an article in Mother Jones about the abuse of workers who are trafficked into the US to do jobs that Americans could do -if only they had the opportunity. http://motherjones.com/politics/2010...rvitude?page=1

    Credit checks required ONLY of USA born job applicants has not only made human trafficking possible; but extremely popular amongst unscrupulous employers here in the USA. American employers, who require credit report checks only from USA born job applicants, are in violation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964; which prohibits employer discrimination on the basis of national origin.

    Identity theft, uninsured medical expenses and poverty are not good reasons to reject any job applicant. Even a CPA can wind up being the victim of identity theft. Think about all of the well educated, sophisticated, wealthy people who got scammed by Bernie Maddoff. Should they be unable to seek employment for the next 7-10 years because they got scammed by a con man? If a person is applying for a job and their credit report reflects the fact that they had to go to the emergency room for uninsured medical care, should they be denied a job simply because they are not wealthy? Job applicants should be judged on their skills, experience and education. Capitalism is supposed to be about competition. When the person with the best skills, experience and education wins the job, it encourages others to do better and try harder. That’s the American way.

    TransUnion, Equifax and Experian are making millions off of this blatant discrimination against American citizens by selling our personal credit reports to these unscrupulous employers who would rather have a slave economy than a capitalist economy. The percentage of Americans who can’t pass an employment credit check is approaching half the entire U.S. workforce

    Any opposition to H.R. 3149 should be aware that people could start filing formal complaints against those unscrupulous employers with the help of ACLU. http://www.aclu.org/

    Thank you for your attention to the matter.

    Here is the link to send an email to the House Financial Services Committee in support of the Equal Employment for All Act.
    http://financialservices.house.gov/contact.html
    (Please feel free to copy and use any or all parts of this letter.)

    Also please remember to send an email to your own Congress Representative. Here is the link https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
    Here is the link to send an email to the House Financial Services Committee in support of the Equal Employment for All Act.
    http://financialservices.house.gov/contact.html
    (Please feel free to copy and use any or all parts of this letter.)

    Also please remember to send an email to your own Congress Representative. Here is the link https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml"
    Last edited by loren; 06-19-2010 at 04:54 PM. Reason: more info
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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    Quote Originally Posted by NREXM View Post
    I'm completely happy dancing until I'm well into the thirties. I could never find a job that pays me a six figure salary without spending at least $500k in debt.

    I plan on starting a business when I stop dancing. That requires no real degree; just a few classes here and there.

    I don't make six figures but I make WAY, way, WAY more than I have at ANY job I've held throughout my entire 12 years of working.

    I am doing well, and even if I have a string of bad nights it's still all about averages to me, and I still average a pretty darn good monthly income. I have managed to keep both my husband and I afloat throughout almost 2 years of him getting laid off and the struggle for jobs that he's endured. And when I say "afloat" I don't mean just surviving paycheck to paycheck but living a decent life being able to go out to dinner, travel, shop etc. We are not "rich" but somehow are doing better than most people we know with degrees.

    I am with you on dancing being my "career" for the time being. My plan is to do this until my body won't allow me. Until then I will be saving, investing and brainstorming what to do when I finally reach the point of physically being incapable of dancing anymore.

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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    Quote Originally Posted by loren View Post
    Thanks for this post. All you have to do is go to the "i need a freakin' job" website to see all of the college grads who can't get a job.


    A lot of people who did what they thought they were supposed to do, feel like they have been scammed - and with good reason. Plus the fact that u.s.a. born citizens are discriminated against via employer mandated credit report checks in these so called "real jobs".
    The credit checks are scams and should be illegal, unless it's a financial job. Otherwise they often use it as a way to discriminate, not just because of credit, but to see what you buy. Plus now with outsourcing and H1-B's, employers often don't want to hire Americans (this is my pet peeve).

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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    Quote Originally Posted by NREXM View Post
    I'm completely happy dancing until I'm well into the thirties. I could never find a job that pays me a six figure salary without spending at least $500k in debt.

    I plan on starting a business when I stop dancing. That requires no real degree; just a few classes here and there.
    Making $100,000+ a year in your late teens/early 20's, you really shouldn't HAVE to work past your thirties. If you save/invest properly you could retire very nicely at 40.

    Unless the business you plan on starting is more for fun than to earn an actual living. In that case, more power to you.



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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    Quote Originally Posted by 4everresolutions View Post
    I've always wanted to go to college and get a 'real job', but the more time passes the more I'm beginning to think my real job should be dancing.
    I went to university and never got myself a "real job". I did get myself a real shit load of debt though that makes my life a living hell.

    My former housemate graduated with a BA in History is now working as a male stripper and prostitute. He could not find a job after graduation so decided to hustle instead.



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    ^ OMG. Thanks for that. I feel both saddened and enlightened.



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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    Quote Originally Posted by 4everresolutions View Post
    ^ OMG. Thanks for that. I feel both saddened and enlightened.
    I attended Trent University in Peterborough On. I now have over $32,000 in student debt that I have not paid one red cent to. When I graduated OSAP gave me these forms. My minimum monthly payment? Over $500!!!

    I cannot declare bankruptcy on this debt for 7 years. That $32 K is not including the credit cards I maxed out ($10 K total), the bank account I screwed up ($3K) or my existing car loan (this is up to date, but I still owe $2 K on it). My credit is fucked right now. Oh and I still have a mortgage on a condo I own (I purchased after graduating when my credit was still good).

    I do have an RSP and a few small investments (amounting to like maybe $5K at most) that I am holding on to. I am hoping to get things back together relatively soon and start busting my butt dancing. As it stands right now I can't work, at least not effectively.

    I still have enough money coming in to just "coast" as my mother says.

    Thank god for social assistance being so understanding of my situation. If it were not for them I would be paying like $200 for my meds or more!



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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    Quote Originally Posted by OJenni! View Post
    I attended Trent University in Peterborough On. I now have over $32,000 in student debt that I have not paid one red cent to. When I graduated OSAP gave me these forms. My minimum monthly payment? Over $500!!!

    I cannot declare bankruptcy on this debt for 7 years.
    Sorry to hear about you and your friend. That is terrible.
    In the U.S. you can never declare bankruptcy on a student loan. It will be with you for the rest of your life. The 'everyone needs to go to college scam' is the worst scam ever. I think it's even worse than the sub prime mortgage/ real estate bubble scam. The U.S. "financial industry" is so corrupt; it's unbelievable!
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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    I may make a blog with a commentary about this. My mom is one of those 'go to college, get a REAL degree (as opposed to learning a trade.) get a REAL job' type of people.

    1. She has spent 30 plus years caring for sick people, a job she hates and has tried to leave multiple times and failed.
    2. While she has made a decent living, it requires a lot of overtime, travel nursing, holidays, weekends, third shift, etc.
    3. Also, while she HAS earned a decent amount of money, she has not invested any of it so she's well into her 50's with no retirement fund or savings. (Quits her job every few years and lives off of her savings.)
    4. Despite overtime etc she still doesn't earn a 6 figure income.
    5. And despite her education she still finds it hard to get jobs in nursing even though that's a field that traditionally is always needed.

    Now, once I get a website up and running, I will probably live off dancing money and let my income from my (pornographic) website sit. I am used to living off what I make from dancing, even if it's not much, and the site I'm looking at (Southern Charms to start with, then branching off on my own) only requires maintenance twice a month... so it's practically passive income. I also have plans to travel to Guam, most likely to pay for (nice) furniture and cosmetic surgery, along with whatever bills need to straight up be paid off. I'm thinking about dental assisting as a back up plan, but I feel pretty confident in my plans for now and feel I need to act on them while I'm young.
    On my way to being the Bitch Goddess of your dreams... or nightmares.

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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    my going to school is to keep my parents off my back, and to give some legitimacy to the buisness i've already started. *shrug*

    plus college is already paid for, as long as i stay in the state.
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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    I'd like to go to college. But only to learn something I'd like to learn. I'm not going to put all my eggs in one basket with college though, and think that it's the be-all end-all for my career.
    On my way to being the Bitch Goddess of your dreams... or nightmares.

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    I wish I'd stopped going to college when it got too expensive. I didn't finish my degree and if I did there's nothing I could do with it. I have horrible credit now too.

    However, I did take an apprenticeship which was a great idea, I have more job options. And that I'm willing to do stripping is helpful. I'm doing way better than most of my friends because of it.

    I'm also planning on going back to school to be an EMT. It's one quarter long and after a year of experience I can be a paramedic. I don't want to rule out school, but I definitely wish that instead of being pushed into college with no direction I'd waited and decided to pursue a degree that is actually useful.
    Goodbye Seattle Lusty Lady, where every Miss is a Hit, and every Hit is Missed. 1985-2010.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loren View Post
    Sorry to hear about you and your friend. That is terrible.
    In the U.S. you can never declare bankruptcy on a student loan. It will be with you for the rest of your life. The 'everyone needs to go to college scam' is the worst scam ever. I think it's even worse than the sub prime mortgage/ real estate bubble scam. The U.S. "financial industry" is so corrupt; it's unbelievable!
    Very corrupt because they keep telling students to take more and more debt on. I know someone who graduated with an art history degree and $100,000 in debt. It didn't pay off since that person works at an art store making minimum wage.

    These schools are so stupid. My undergrad school is a famous art/media arts college and really has a lousy job placement center. I once asked about going to college to find a job and the counselor said "you don't go to college to find a career, you go to enrich your life". WHAT? who would spend 4 (or more) years in school so they can be "enriched"? Except for rich kids, I can't imagine anyone would go to college, take classes that are pretty worthless, just to be enriched. My college was famous for this and one of the last classes you had to take was for seniors. You'd think it would be a class teaching resumes and job interviews, but instead it was a class where the beginning of class everyone has to talk about what they did that week. I was told I didn't "open up" enough because I refused to talk about my entire life. Why would I open up for people, most of whom I'll never see again?
    Last edited by Kellydancer; 06-10-2010 at 01:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Feeling Bad About Your Career...DON'T

    This is the old school stuff! No pun intended. It made sense to have the enriching courses when women were going to college primarily to meet and marry marriageable men then drop out. It made sense to do this when your parents had the money to indulge and finish you for high society. The vast majority of middle class and poor students need their studies to lead directly to a well paying, stable job. The vast majority of students can't afford to take on $30,000 or more in debt for their enrichment.

    Most people change careers 3 tuimes throughout their lives. Who can take on 100,000 or more of debt every time they go back to school for a "real" job? All the rhetoric about retraining sounds nice but is wildly unrealistic. Add onto that the reality of trying to save for your retirement and putting aside money for your kids' college. It's impossible.

    The first two years of college is made of Liberal Arts stuff that could be studied in state or community colleges. I'd go so far as to say that you could get the syllabi of all those courses and read the material on your own and be just as enriched. Ideally the course work would start with the info they hold back until the last two years and it would take half the time and half the cost to get your Bachelor's. All the schools should let you know which major's lead to in demand well paying jobs and which are harder to cash in. There should be a closer relationship between businesses and schools so there are more internships and more feedback on what student do and don't need to make it in the career they choose. Those are some of the things I'd change about higher education in this country.
    Last edited by Optimist; 06-10-2010 at 01:14 PM.
    “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE

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