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Thread: So many jobs!

  1. #1
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default So many jobs!

    13,000 new jobs created last quarter. Rejoice at all that tip money coming in from those potential customers.



    U.S. private employers added just 13,000 jobs in June, according to a report published Wednesday that suggested expectations of a big drop in the government's upcoming nonfarm payrolls report were on target.

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    ^^^ and how many new high school / college graduates are entering the US labor market this month to compete for those 13,000 new private sector jobs ... which when divided by 50 = about 270 new private sector jobs per STATE !

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    It's better than 12,000.....or negative 2000.....right? Like, it's better than a lot of shit, so why be grumpy?

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    im wondering how many of these new jobs were created by the oil spill...
    The best thing i have heard in a strip club to date:
    customer: we should get married right now! we should get a shotgun marriage!
    me: uhh... i think you are misunderstanding what a shotgun marriage means. A shotgun marriage means you knock me up and my daddy shows up at your door with a gun and forces you to marry me and raise the baby. You mean elope.
    customer: hmm... nah actually i will take the shotgun marriage. At least then we would be having sex.


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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    Well if you are going to introduce the number of new graduates entering the work force as a reason why this good news is not so good then it is only fair to factor in the number of people that retired or yes DIED opening up the jobs they had which when filled I do not think would fall under the heading of "new jobs"

    If you are going to count the pluses then you have to cpount the minuses too!

  6. #6
    God/dess princessjas's Avatar
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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    Quote Originally Posted by phonehome View Post
    Well if you are going to introduce the number of new graduates entering the work force as a reason why this good news is not so good then it is only fair to factor in the number of people that retired or yes DIED opening up the jobs they had which when filled I do not think would fall under the heading of "new jobs"

    If you are going to count the pluses then you have to cpount the minuses too!
    Not here in the Dollar Den of Doom!! If it doesn't squeak of right-wing conspiracy theory nutso crappola they don't wanna hear it. It's why I usually stay far, far away.
    Last edited by princessjas; 07-01-2010 at 07:05 PM. Reason: Where the hell did my word go?
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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenathefabulous View Post
    im wondering how many of these new jobs were created by the oil spill...
    Probably less were created by the spill than were eliminated because of it. Just sayin.
    "I hear you calling and it's needles and pins. I wanna hurt you just to hear you screaming my name...You're poision. but I don't wanna break these chains.... I wanna love you but I'd better not touch."

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  10. #8
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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    Quote Originally Posted by phonehome View Post
    Well if you are going to introduce the number of new graduates entering the work force as a reason why this good news is not so good then it is only fair to factor in the number of people that retired or yes DIED opening up the jobs they had which when filled I do not think would fall under the heading of "new jobs"

    If you are going to count the pluses then you have to cpount the minuses too!
    Factoring that stuff in, you need 150k+ jobs added per month to account for frictional unemployment (job changing), retirement and death, plus population growth.

    So this month we got about 1/12 to 1/15 of the job adding needed to 'break even'.

    You don't have to call it doom, but it's not a good sign at all.

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    ... if you want an example of 'doom', check out what's going on now that states' fiscal years are coming to an end and Washington hasn't 'showered' them with new 'no strings attached' economic stimulus money for 2011 ...

    - 122 gov't employees laid off

    - 241 teachers laid off

    ... this can probably be repeated across the country as hundreds of cities, counties, and states lay off gov't employees across the country. Some of the larger entities are cutting far higher numbers.

    (snip)"New York City approved a budget Tuesday that cuts about $1 billion in spending and would eliminate 5,300 jobs from the city's 300,000-person work force"(snip) from

    Also from the same link (snip)"the economy needs to generate at least 100,000 net new jobs per month to keep up with population growth, and probably twice that number to bring down the jobless rate."(snip). So yes May's 13,000 actual 'new' jobs versus a 100,000 'break even' requirement versus population growth amounts to an additional 87,000 Americans without a job in June ... NOT COUNTING the tens of thousands of gov't workers who received pink slips on June 30th !

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 07-01-2010 at 01:40 PM.

  12. #10
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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    ^^^^ na na na na na na if I close my eyes I can't see it!

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    We are in big trouble in this country courtesy of both parties. It started when Reagan decided to break up many of the unions. I'm no fan of unions, but this is when many manufacturing companies left the United States. Then of course Clinton, a Democrat signed NAFTA, which allowed more jobs to leave. The lie we were told was that these jobs would be replaced by better jobs, and they were, tech jobs. However many of those jobs were also outsourced and replaced by low paying service job. At the same time all students were pushed into college, even ones who shouldn't have. So now we have many educated people working in jobs that require no skills at all. Meanwhile in countries like China, Mexico and India people are getting rich. China is after all a COMMUNIST COUNTRY and everytime someone buys a "cheap" product there they are allowing their communism to continue. Nice, isn't it? Everytime I have to call customer service I get an Indian (and I loathe Indians). But people are too stupid to care because it affects their American Idol watching. Now NBC is even making a "sitcom" about outsourcing, though I find nothing funny about this.

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    13,000 jobs is a lot better than the 700,000 jobs a month we were losing a year and a half ago.

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    13,000 jobs is a lot better than the 700,000 jobs a month we were losing a year and a half ago.
    Sure, but what kinds of jobs? That's what they aren't saying. I'm not happy if the jobs we are adding are low paying service jobs.

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    13,000 jobs is a lot better than the 700,000 jobs a month we were losing a year and a half ago.
    latest numbers show 125k job LOSS for the month.

    again, you don't have to say it's DOOOM, but it is certainly not a good sign.

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    Well, here's the good news you all want to hear. Based on June's just released numbers, the official gov't statistic U1 unemployment rate dropped from 9.7% to 9.5%

    However, if you are an investor or an income taxpayer, you might want to look beyond that headline statistic ...

    (snip)"And though the unemployment rate unexpectedly fell to 9.5% from 9.7%, the lowest in a year, it was largely due to more people dropping out of the labor force.

    The report was the latest sign that the economic recovery may be faltering.

    "Overall what this does is it reinforces the market's view that the U.S. recovery is losing steam,'' said Greg Salvaggio, vice president of trading at Tempus Consulting in Washington.

    Stocks tumbled in reaction to report, while Treasury debt prices slipped.

    Private hiring rose 83,000 after increasing only 33,000 the prior month, the Labor Department said. But nonfarm payrolls, dropped 125,000—the largest decline since October—as census jobs fell 225,000. "(snip)

    (snip)"Payrolls in the dominant services sector rose 91,000 last month after increasing 20,000 in May. Temporary help employment rose 20,500, while retail hiring fell 6,600.

    In the goods-producing sector, payrolls fell 8,000 in June, pulled down by declines in construction as home building dropped sharply following the end of a government tax credit.

    Manufacturing employment rose 9,000 after a 32,000 gain in May."(snip)

    from


    Of course, a real world translation is probably in order for what it means when people 'drop out of the labor force', and thus disappear from the U1 unemployment statistic. This means that people have given up hope of finding a job and have stopped looking ! This also probably means that instead of collecting unemployment checks some number of the long term unemployed are now signing up for welfare, medicaid, subsidized housing, subsidized utilities etc. as well as filing for bankruptcy

    Given the fact that the congress again decided not to re-extend the 99 weeks worth of unemployment checks any further, this also means that another ~2 million unemployed Americans will exhaust their 99 weeks worth of checks over the next month. But hey, that means that the U1 unemployment rate will drop again next month as these long term unemployed people also 'drop out of the labor force' - which is good news, right ?

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    more from the LA Times ...

    (snip)"Job gains last month were largely in low-paying industries -- leisure and hospitality, and the temporary-help industry. Manufacturing payrolls grew by 9,000, but that was much smaller than the average of 25,400 in the prior five months. And the construction industry shed another 22,000 jobs in June.

    Although the jobless rate in June fell from 9.7% in May, that reflected a big drop of 652,000 people in the labor force over the month. The labor force is made up of workers and those actively looking for jobs. With the economic recovery weakening and many employers reluctant to hire, many more unemployed people may have quit looking for work, which would push down the jobless rate.

    In fact, the percentage of the overall working-age population that is in the labor force fell last month to 64.7% -- near a 25-year low."(snip)

    [email protected]
    Copyright © 2010, The Los Angeles Times

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    Quote Originally Posted by miabella View Post
    latest numbers show 125k job LOSS for the month.

    again, you don't have to say it's DOOOM, but it is certainly not a good sign.
    That's overall, not in the private sector. Those losses come from the laying off of census workers.

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    well, 650k+ workers dropped out of the workforce entirely, and not due to retirement or death.

    not sure how that's any better. the point is that gains are illusory in the face of workforce participation plummeting and even government-cheese jobs having to be cut in more than a few areas.

  22. #19
    God/dess princessjas's Avatar
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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Oh shit!! We all better run and move to some 3rd world cesspool, quick! Who cares if we are kidnapped or killed in a drug-war shootout, it's better than here, right?!?!

    *Now I'm leaving the Dollar Den of Doom and won't even have interwebz for a few days in case ya'll want to insult me some. lol *
    "I hear you calling and it's needles and pins. I wanna hurt you just to hear you screaming my name...You're poision. but I don't wanna break these chains.... I wanna love you but I'd better not touch."

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    Quote Originally Posted by miabella View Post
    well, 650k+ workers dropped out of the workforce entirely, and not due to retirement or death.

    not sure how that's any better. the point is that gains are illusory in the face of workforce participation plummeting and even government-cheese jobs having to be cut in more than a few areas.
    Nobody is saying things are going great. Things are bad now, but they could be a lot worse. At the beginning of last year, we were losing 700,000 jobs a month and we were in danger of going into another depression.

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    we are already in another depression. people are simply not looking for work in larger and larger numbers (or taking their earning power underground), so the 700k number hasn't really improved, as such.

    we're in a 'fragile jobless recovery' if you think wall street getting big bonuses again counts as 'not being in a depression'.

    the great depression didn't have huge job losses every single month without fail. some months jobs were added, even. but overall, it was still a depression. same deal currently.

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    I know things are rough and it seems never ending...but as an American citizen, something in me won't let me give up on this country. It keeps me optimistic. And strong and I refuse for something like this to take me down. And I know there are many others that feel the same. It's pride.





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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    Quote Originally Posted by miabella View Post
    we are already in another depression. people are simply not looking for work in larger and larger numbers (or taking their earning power underground), so the 700k number hasn't really improved, as such.
    Yes it has. Businesses aren't laying off huge amounts of people. In the private sector, more people are being hired than laid off. Those people who have stopped looking for work were already unemployed.

    Quote Originally Posted by miabella View Post
    we're in a 'fragile jobless recovery' if you think wall street getting big bonuses again counts as 'not being in a depression'.

    the great depression didn't have huge job losses every single month without fail. some months jobs were added, even. but overall, it was still a depression. same deal currently.
    During the Great Depression, the unemployment rate went up to approximately 25% compared to 10% now. The GDP contracted by about 1/3 during the Great Depression compared to approximately 4% in the current downturn. In addition, at the time of the Great Depression, most families only had one earner. When that person was laid off, the family had no income. Today, probably a decent amount of those laid off have a working spouse.

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    Sad Re: So many jobs!

    I'm mystified why the media does not report more on jobs being given to other countries. Someone asked Obama if anything could be done about the IT jobs leaving here. He said those jobs are already gone we must create new kinds of jobs. Excuse me, how does that help our national security when we have no IT people. In world war 2 the Nazi's were using computers to try to build a nuclear bomb. Our IT people here were able to use their computer knowledge to build the bomb first. No offense but I've dealt with a lot of these offshore people from India and most of them are not bright. The same goes for manufacturing we need to keep some know how here. The reason the US was so successfull was because the country started out isolationist and watched out for it's own interests. Now H1B visas are issued freely to people from India who come here to replace our people. H1B's are supposed to be issued when they have special skills not available here. We have competent people here who could do those jobs. I'm very disgusted that things are not handled in the right priority here. They can do the same thing with radiology jobs etc. and then your job.

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    Default Re: So many jobs!

    ^^^ not wanting to turn too far away from the economic side of this issue, but your WW2 comments have just touched on a key point. Where 'global economics' was concerned, prior to and immediately after WW2 global trade issues involving countries like India, Southeast Asian countries, etc. were channelled through a 'colonial power'. Those 'colonial powers' set export prices based on a vested interest in keeping the world's economy stable ( and keeping a steady stream of profits flowing back to themselves) with little regard for the actual export prices necessary to 'break even'.

    However, once exporting countries gained full independence from the late 40's onward, former 'colonial' economic handcuffs were removed. This in turn gave birth to today's global economy ... where minimum export prices ARE determined by 'break even' costs. But this also created a gigantic structural economic problem for those former 'colonial power' economies that had built-in social welfare costs versus the newly independent '3rd world' economies that did not ... which by definition creates different 'break even' points. This differential continues to this day, and in fact is increasing with each newly imposed gov't mandate. And the growing differential in 'break even' costs serves as an ever strengthening motivation for private sector businesses to outsource, relocate, automate etc.

    The 'eggheads' point out that there is really only one option available to stop this trend. That option is to abandon 'free trade' with the low 'break even' costs structure countries. One floating proposal is to impose import tariffs which would selectively add on the 'missing' social welfare cost component for goods and services ( from 'missing' foreign employee benefit costs, to 'missing; foreign worker safety and environmental costs, to 'missing' foreign gov't social program costs etc.), in an effort to re-establish a level playing field. In the US, specific proposals have been formulated re China, where the differential value of these 'missing' costs is reputed to be 27% on top of current Chinese import pricing levels.

    However, this brings up another 'dirty little secret' ... that millions of Americans' existing standard of living is now heavily dependent on enjoying the available 27% 'discount' on these imported / outsourced goods and services. Also, operating costs for US federal and state programs ( ex. food stamps ) are also dependent on the available 27% 'discount'. Killing that 27% 'discount' in order to remove the future incentive for outsourcing / offshoring / importing etc. would also cause a profound reduction in the standard of livings of many Americans, as well as profoundly exacerbate US state budget problems.

    And from the point of view of creating new US jobs, unfortunately on a real world basis there are very few business activities where a 27% 'price premium' ( via US minimum wage, worker safety and environmental compliance, mandated employee benefits, plus newly mandated national health care etc.) can be absorbed and still allow that business activity to 'break even' versus foreign competition.

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