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Thread: Do you really believe in Karma?

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    God/dess Elvia's Avatar
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    Default Do you really believe in Karma?

    I hear people bring up the subject of Karma around here a lot. Now, I don't want to offend anyone or put down anyone's beliefs. But I often wonder, when people say "karma!" How often do they really believe it? Do you really believe there is some unseen force in the world working to make sure that people get what they deserve, or has it become just an expression?

    I personally do not believe in karma. From my perspective, It seems that a quick glance at the state of the world reveals that people very often do not get what they deserve. While others get lots of things that they haven't earned and don't deserve.

    Thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    As Katherine Hepburn put it so eloquently " Nature is what we were put here to rise above"

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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    I don't believe in it either. I think it's another one of those ridiculous things people make up to make themselves feel better.

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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    I do not. Terrible things happen to normal people every day.

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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    I do, but in the sense that I feel like people KNOW deep down what they do deserve. For example .... good choices lead me to know know to expect and go after good results. Bad choices = mental and physical slog which leads to bad results ( we've all seen people perpetually stuck in a never ending rut right ? ) .

    I probably didn't phrase that well ( tired ) .

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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    I don't 'believe in it' per se, but it does seem like bad things catch up to people who do bad things. Usually in a very common-sense sort of way. You know, like...people who steal shit get shit stolen from them.

    From a religious perspective, I'm an apathetic agnostic / pragmatic atheist, so...karma is not real to me.

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    Veteran Member AngelKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    I think we feel a deep need to see patterns in things, and we over-exaggerate our importance in the universe. Karma to me is a luxurious belief, and I would personally find it hard trying to explain to a normal person who has had something atrocious happen to them, like seeing their entire family massacred, that they either had it coming to them, or that they are somehow making unseen deposits into a cosmic piggybank of happiness.

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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    I believe in Karma. Puts my mind at ease, and I find myself be angry much less often than what I used to be when something happened. Because I witness it all the time.





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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    Sometimes bad things happen to good people. I think what it comes down to is the support group a person has to see them through it. A person who has been kind and compassionate will have more friendships to fall back on than someone who causes repetitive harm.
    Quote Originally Posted by markx View Post
    I'd have to have a "4 simease twin strippers gave me head and then lite themselves on fire" story to blow anybody's mind here.

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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    I like to think it exists, and people "get theirs" who deserve it. However, I often wonder about this when someone doesn't have bad things happen, though they deserve it.

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    Featured Member Christany's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by AngelKing View Post
    I think we feel a deep need to see patterns in things, and we over-exaggerate our importance in the universe. Karma to me is a luxurious belief, and I would personally find it hard trying to explain to a normal person who has had something atrocious happen to them, like seeing their entire family massacred, that they either had it coming to them, or that they are somehow making unseen deposits into a cosmic piggybank of happiness.
    This was really profound.
    Quote Originally Posted by markx View Post
    I'd have to have a "4 simease twin strippers gave me head and then lite themselves on fire" story to blow anybody's mind here.

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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    Yeah horrible things happen to innocent people--even little kids--benevolent harmless people get kidnapped, raped, tortured, killed. Several hundred thousand people were burned at the stake for believing the wrong thing about Jesus, for instance--where's the Karmic justice in that? Kind of ironic seeing as how he spoke about forgiveness.

    But I do believe in the secular notion of 'karmic retribution' as espoused by many people when they think of the term (however inaccurately). It's rather haphazard though. And from what I have heard, it is not consistent with the original notion of Karma, strictly defined.

    Such sayings as 'He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.', while not infallible, tend to be on the mark.

    A guy who gets violent easily and tries to beat people up, etc., is quite likely to pick a fight with the wrong guy someday and get his ass kicked. People who yell at others for little or no reason are likely to get yelled back at. People who steal are likely to hang with thieves and get robbed in turn. And so forth.
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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    I do. I just think if you are shitty to people in life it will catch up with you at some point.

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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    Also, if you smile at people, tip them well if they are waiting on you somehow, etc., they tend to like you. You get a hell of a lot more out of life if people like you. But it has nothing to do with Karma, strictly defined, as it was originally meant to be. We need to look it up now maybe.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    Not that Wilkpedia is the end-all-disputes authority, but here we go:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma

    I found this part to be interesting:

    "In Indian beliefs, the karmic effects of all deeds are viewed as actively shaping past, present, and future experiences. The results or 'fruits' of actions are called karma-phala."

    Actively shaping past experiences. How would that work exactly, I wonder?
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    Karma, in that what you send out will always come back to you in some ethereal way? No...but as others have said, I think that if you live a good life then the chances of good things happening to you increases, and vice versa.

    But the notion that if you do something evil, then some supernatural force will bring evil upon you, or whatever....nah, that's hogwash.

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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post

    I found this part to be interesting:

    "In Indian beliefs, the karmic effects of all deeds are viewed as actively shaping past, present, and future experiences. The results or 'fruits' of actions are called karma-phala."

    Actively shaping past experiences. How would that work exactly, I wonder?
    This is a tough question because most of us- myself included- have only a superficial understanding of karma. Most of us define it as just 'you get yours.' I could get behind that, but it ties in nicely with the Catholic guilt thing

    Regarding the quote above, I think the Buddhist belief in past lives informs this.... karma is supposed to be about the sum of actions in past present and future, not just in this lifetime, so it's indeed shaping all those things simultaneously.

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    Veteran Member AngelKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christany View Post
    This was really profound.
    Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    I don't so much believe in "karma" per se, but I do tend to think that people who are assholes to others, get it coming back to them at some point. Simply because if they act that way to enough people, then at some point, someone is going to return the favor.

    I've seen enough nasty/mean people have it come back to bite them in the ass. I think it is simple. If you are nice to people, it tends to be returned. If you aren't, well, that tends to be returned as well.

    No cosmic force at work.

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    Veteran Member AngelKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicole84 View Post
    I don't so much believe in "karma" per se, but I do tend to think that people who are assholes to others, get it coming back to them at some point. Simply because if they act that way to enough people, then at some point, someone is going to return the favor.

    I've seen enough nasty/mean people have it come back to bite them in the ass. I think it is simple. If you are nice to people, it tends to be returned. If you aren't, well, that tends to be returned as well.

    No cosmic force at work.
    I don't think that's karma either, I think it's more like common sense.....

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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    Karma is a nice escape clause for lazy or irresponsable people to get away with doing crappy things. Some say themselves `ooh I bet Ill get some bad karma for that`, which they will then create (maybe even subconsiously) something bad (but not that bad) for themselves in order to make themselves feel better about doing the crappy thing.

    Its also a get out clause for those who dont like admit that they would rather get walked over than be couragous and stand up for themselves.
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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jezzebelle View Post
    Karma is a nice escape clause for lazy or irresponsable people to get away with doing crappy things. Some say themselves `ooh I bet Ill get some bad karma for that`, which they will then create (maybe even subconsiously) something bad (but not that bad) for themselves in order to make themselves feel better about doing the crappy thing.

    Its also a get out clause for those who dont like admit that they would rather get walked over than be couragous and stand up for themselves.
    Okay I wasn't offended by anyone's answers until you called those that believe in it lazy or irresponsible. Is that really necessary? Because I'm nothing like the person you are claiming believes in Karma, and I believe in it.





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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    Well if you are nothing like the above then no, I guess it doesnt apply to you.
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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    Yeah horrible things happen to innocent people--even little kids--benevolent harmless people get kidnapped, raped, tortured, killed. Several hundred thousand people were burned at the stake for believing the wrong thing about Jesus, for instance--where's the Karmic justice in that? Kind of ironic seeing as how he spoke about forgiveness.

    But I do believe in the secular notion of 'karmic retribution' as espoused by many people when they think of the term (however inaccurately). It's rather haphazard though. And from what I have heard, it is not consistent with the original notion of Karma, strictly defined.

    Such sayings as 'He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.', while not infallible, tend to be on the mark.

    A guy who gets violent easily and tries to beat people up, etc., is quite likely to pick a fight with the wrong guy someday and get his ass kicked. People who yell at others for little or no reason are likely to get yelled back at. People who steal are likely to hang with thieves and get robbed in turn. And so forth.

    I like when bad karma happens to people who deserve it. For instance my parents had these friends who would screw over others in the name of money. They lost many friends because of this (they owned a business) and even relatives. For awhile nothing seemed to happen to them. The daughter was VP of a bank and had a nice home and family. The son was a pilot and also had a nice family and house. My parents used to question why nothing bad happened to them, but eventually bad things did happen. Both of them got cancer, lost their business, because they were nasty to friends and relatives they have no one to back them up. Both the son and daughter lost their jobs, and got divorced (the daughter has been married 5 times). Right now there is another former friend who screwed over my parents and we hope they get theirs, but will they? Their son barely graduated college yet got a good job in his field. He got married to someone else with money, etc.

    But then I know situations where people who never did anything bad got theirs back. I have to ask why? Why does it seem like those with the worst lives get nothing while those who are evil get it all? I hope those who are evil get theirs, but in too many cases they don't. Then I look at myself and wonder why I am suffering with many issues while others have the life I want.

    It's questions like these that make me wonder if karma exists or if we want it to exist.

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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    I do to some extent, karma in and of itself is a Buddhist belief. I am Christian but I do believe if you do bad things it will come back to you eventually. That doesn't necessarily mean if you are a generally good person nothing will every go wrong in your life.

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    Default Re: Do you really believe in Karma?

    I used to believe in karma as a teenager. I changed my mind when I considered the situation of two different people I knew. We'll call them Kirsten and Steve.

    Ever since high school, my friend Kirsten has dreamed of one thing- getting a chance to backpack around Europe. Kirsten was born to a very poor, working class family. Even when she was in school, she worked as many hours as she could to help out her family, and to try to stash a little money away to save for her dream. She's the hardest working person I know. She never complains about her situation, and is always happy to work extra to help out her boss or cover a co worker. But everytime she gets close to saving up enough money, tragedy strikes. Her mother has a health problem, or a relative lands on hard times, and she ends up handing over all her savings to help them out. She never complains or pities herself. She just starts over.

    Steve was born to a wealthy family that spoiled him (with money, if not always affection). He's into acting, and his parents sent him to an expensive private school with an amazing drama program. They send him to expensive drama programs all over the world, and sometimes they just give him money to go on vacation to Paris or London with his drama group friends. Steve does not treat the people he dates very well. Not only does he cheat and lie, but he brags about doing it all behind their backs. He publicly reveals private information his girlfriends have told him in confidence to humiliate them. He liked to convince young high school girls that he loved them, only to dump them right after he sleeps with them and go have a laugh about it with his friends.

    And yet, good things just keep happening to Steve. Every opportunity he wants, he only need ask for. While Kirsten works her ass off and can't seem to get this one thing that Steve could go do in a second, on a whim, and would think nothing of.

    Will Steve and Kirsten get what they deserve in the end?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    As Katherine Hepburn put it so eloquently " Nature is what we were put here to rise above"

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