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Thread: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

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    Default Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    So, I love to spend my free time on debate forums, debating various issues. Often sex worker's rights. I noticed awhile back that when I say "sex workers" or "sex work" people seem to think that means just prostitution. So when I say "I'm a sex worker", they often assume I am a prostitute. So a few days ago I decided to do an experiment and just let people assume I was a prostitute.

    And Holy Moley, the amount of absolute hate and atrocious verbal abuse that came my way....not just to me, the supposed prostitute. But family as well, "anyone who could love you is garbage," extending the criticism to my supposed children even, etc (I didn't say I had children. They assumed it for some reason). Asking me if I'd been the victim of rape and other violent assaults, in a way that was assuming I had, and mocking me for it.

    Now, one would expect that from the typical internet troll. But what surprised me is that even intelligent, well educated, articulate people who normally maintained a lot of integrity in debate were suddenly willing to abandon all their integrity and credibility that they normally worked so hard to maintain in the face of the most ridiculous commenters, just to scream at and demonize a whore. People who always spoke out against people being "reduced to name calling" were really quick to fill several pages with primarily that.

    What is it about prostitution, between consenting adults, that does this to typically rational people who are usually very concerned with maintaining a calm demeanor? Why does this suddenly reduce them to the very behavior they are usually so concerned with appearing above? Even while they were attempting to persuade me to choose another path, they still said horribly abusive things (which seems obviously counterproductive). Even people who often speak about prostitutes with compassion, as if they should just be regarded as victims, seemed to change their tune pretty immediately. It seems that when presented with a prostitute, what they most want to do is abuse her, even when they have only expressed sympathy for prostitutes in the past.

    In short...why is this the one thing that seems to drive people so damn crazy? Do people really just want prostitutes to suffer, in the worst way imaginable? Are they scapegoats for all the world's ills?

    What do you think?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    As Katherine Hepburn put it so eloquently " Nature is what we were put here to rise above"

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    I know what you are saying. It's one of the reasons I would never tell anyone IRL that I see escorts. I don't really have a valid explanation for why this is. Fear? Misunderstanding? Ignorance? In some cases maybe a bit of jealousy.

    Does it surprise me? No, not really. Beleive it or not, some of the most hateful and disrespectful things I have ever read that were directed at prostitutes were posted on the message boards of TER, The Erotic Review which, for those of you who don't know, is a site for and about prostitutes and the men who pay them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
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    Sophia_Starina is a sensible stripper...Naked all the way.....
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    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    You know, it's actually really left me rattled. I have to keep reminding myself I'm not actually a prostitute, so I shouldn't feel it so personally. But as someone who'd been so interested and invested in all sex workers rights, it really leaves me feeling disturbed and hopeless.

    Where's HockeyBobby? He's always the go to guy to put emotional issues in perspective...
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    As Katherine Hepburn put it so eloquently " Nature is what we were put here to rise above"

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    I wish I could understand that kind of hatred. It's tempting to say that it's just "jealousy", but lawd, I am as jealous as they come and I have no problem with prostitution.

    I suppose it's the ugly head of religion rearing, but that doesn't really explain it either. There is a visceral, violent reaction to sex for money that is beyond me.

    Anxious to see what insights people have on this.

    Elvia, I appreciate you taking one for the team, but I'm so sorry you had to absorb a bunch of hateful, ignorant bullshit.
    Last edited by Promnesiac; 10-03-2010 at 06:31 PM. Reason: Grammar explosion

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    I don't get it either. And I read it all the time. Slut shaming is really deeply ingrained in people's psyches.

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    In a lot of people's minds they consider a prostitute to be vulgar and lacking self respect. This may be why some consider them unworthy of being loved. A prostitute is a social outsider and is vulnerable to attack. They view any deviation from accepted social values as weakness, and there is an animal instinct that still exists in many humans to bully the weak. It is equivalent to picking on the slight, nerdy kid at school. Some otherwise good children often participate in bullying just like some otherwise level headed adults fling insults at prostitutes.

    There is a seperate issue that many men like to feel they can exert control over women. A prostitute exhanges sex for money which compromises this perceived control in some men's minds. This may inspire feelings of contempt for the prostitute.

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    Civilization and the little webs that hold it together are so thin, best not to put your faith in it. Presented with a situation were in the Mob can feel justified and tell themselves collectively "at least I am better than that" otherwise respectable people will give themselves over to the mob mentality. Believing in the anonymity of the mob they will unleash their own base emotions for no better purpose than self aggrandizement.


    Summary: Individuals are at their most evil in groups.

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    Especially insightful posts, ArmySGT and girlfromipanema
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    As Katherine Hepburn put it so eloquently " Nature is what we were put here to rise above"

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    Consider for a moment a biological evolutionary reason.

    Offspring and fidelity. The Alpha Male and Alpha Female of the wolf pack. Eagles, Hawks, and may other animals or other species mate for life. The Alpha Male will provide for the female when she becomes too pregnant to hunt , and when the offspring a too small to be left alone. That same Alpha Male will kill the offspring of another Male given the chance, as he will kill any Beta Males that come around when the Alpha Female comes into season.

    Marriage and Inheritance hinged on Fidelity in past centuries of human development. Women have killed rivals to protect the inheritance for their offspring.

    A child born out of wed lock had nothing. a refuge in the Catholic church, maybe. Indentured servitude a possibility. If reaching adulthood at all. They were the bottom rung, the lowest caste, something that may still be carried in attitudes today.

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    Excellent thread Elvia. I don't understand the phenomena. Like, I can't relate. I don't ever recall in my life having ill feelings towards sex workers. Now, in my later years, I find I just have a deep respect and admiration for what they do, and the challenges they face in their work.

    Is it religion? Almost every organized religion has some form of the golden rule as one of it's pillars. None of us wants to be hated and demonized, so why would we do it to others? Love, tolerance, and forgiveness are religious ideals, no?

    I don't understand the prostitution laws either. It's like making picking your nose illegal. Silly and pointless to me. But many people use that as a basis for deciding for themselves whether something is good or bad. Is that it?

    One thing I've learned is that what seems bad to me today, may be good next week, and in a year may be the best thing that ever happened. I'm not as quick to label things that way anymore. But nobody else has had precisely the same journey as me, and they'll have their own experiences to guide them. I find it most comfortable for me to try (though I fail at times) to just be tolerant, and patient, when others have views I don't understand or agree with.

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeybobby View Post
    Excellent thread Elvia. I don't understand the phenomena. Like, I can't relate. I don't ever recall in my life having ill feelings towards sex workers. Now, in my later years, I find I just have a deep respect and admiration for what they do, and the challenges they face in their work.

    Is it religion? Almost every organized religion has some form of the golden rule as one of it's pillars. None of us wants to be hated and demonized, so why would we do it to others? Love, tolerance, and forgiveness are religious ideals, no?
    Agreed. I've never felt that kind of vitriolic judgment for sex work. Like you I've grown in my respect for that very vital part of our society.

    Yes, religions all have tenets about love and acceptance. But since those tenets are very often ignored in favor of judgment and fear, it doesn't seem that far-fetched that religion might be at the root of "slut shaming" (which is a great way to put it, KS_Stevia).

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    I think it is definitely related to so-called religion - I don't know if our country will ever rid itself its prude and Puritanical roots. It's pure irony that people feel okay about spitting hatred towards others over prostitution because of the profession's "immorality," without ever considering their hateful actions towards prostitutes as lacking morality.

    It's one of those things that - and I hate to say this because I am very bad about keeping my mouth shut on issues I feel strongly about - is very difficult to discuss without someone becoming irrational and inflammatory. When it comes to prostitution, all logic seems to fly out the door. You're right, very educated, eloquent people can become savage when this topic is broached.

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvia View Post
    You know, it's actually really left me rattled. I have to keep reminding myself I'm not actually a prostitute, so I shouldn't feel it so personally. But as someone who'd been so interested and invested in all sex workers rights, it really leaves me feeling disturbed and hopeless.

    Where's HockeyBobby? He's always the go to guy to put emotional issues in perspective...
    It's helpful for me to think of myself as a detached observer, kind of just watching things like it's a big movie playing in front of me. A movie can't hurt me. It's just something that's happening for my entertainment/amusement. When viewed this way, it's hard to get rattled, or even be overly surprised by bizarre behaviour by others.

    I think you pegged it in your OP. Normally calm, rational people behaving bizarrely, or spouting seemingly insane opinions. Our sort of instinctive reaction is "this shouldn't be happening"...or "they shouldn't be that way". This is just a form of non-acceptance of reality though. Anytime we fight reality, we lose...and we suffer. Wishing things were other than they are creates a bunch of emotional reactions. It's ok to feel these things, but recognizing what causes it helps to diminish the suffering.
    HTH.

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    One conclusion I've come to is that even when people feel pity or sympathy for prostitutes, they still want to be segregated from them. They still need to believe it's a world away, and it makes them very angry to realize that is largely not the case. People portray all prostitutes as impoverished streetwalkers. Why? Because it is a comfort to think that they are all neatly tucked away in a bad part of town and away from the decent people and their clean pretty neighborhoods. When someone comes along and introduces to them the idea that that isn't always the case- that a prostitute could be a woman in a business suit walking briskly through the lobby of the Hilton, someone they work with who met someone for a regular "arrangement" on a sugar daddy sight, intelligent well educated people they might talk to on an internet forum- they feel very threatened, and get very angry. Even worse, it could be someone who's not only not in the gutter with a needle in her arm, it could be someone who is doing BETTER than them. Someone who lives in the fancy condos they've always envied, the woman trying on Louis Vuitton at Nordstroms while she's picking through the sale rack, someone who is putting herself through an expensive school debt free, buying a beautiful home while still in her twenties while they're still struggling to pay the rent on a mediocre apartment, etc.

    In short, even people who can accept the idea of prostitution often can only do so if the prostitutes are below them, usefully serving as people they can always conveniently feel superior to no matter how shitty their own life is going. Take that away and watch how fast the sympathetic "understanding" disappears and how fast the claws come out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    As Katherine Hepburn put it so eloquently " Nature is what we were put here to rise above"

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    I think there's many reasons why there's hatred for prostitutes but I think it goes back to the concept that sex=love. In theory it's best to have sex with someone you love but we all know this doesn't happen to everyone and some people have no one to love them. Since sex is a basic urge they need to go get it somewhere. A prostitute of course for the most part isn't in love with her johns so she can give freely without thought.

    This of course scares women because in general women have been raised with the idea that you marry mr right and both are monogamous. When he breaks his vows in this way you feel hatred but instead of blaming the proper person (the guy) you blame the prostitute. This is especially true I'd think in cases where she provides a sexual service the wife will not for some reason. In other words she's also doing for money what wives are expected to do for free. She's providing something that is expected in marriage.

    Would I like to hear my husband (if I was married) was seeing a prostitute? No way but I'd blame him not her (I'd also get a divorce, no second chance with this). Would I blame her? Nope she was being paid for a service.

    I also wanted to throw out something I was thinking about recently about marriage and sex and that's our recent view of it. Until quite recently marriages were mostly arranged or even unequal. Men often had sex before marriage (often with prostitutes) while the women were expected to be virgins. Even after marriage it was very common for men to have sex with other women while women were expected to be faithful. No most people in theory believe that marriage should be monogamous we all know that's not the case for all people.

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by tampadancer View Post
    I think it is definitely related to so-called religion - I don't know if our country will ever rid itself its prude and Puritanical roots. It's pure irony that people feel okay about spitting hatred towards others over prostitution because of the profession's "immorality," without ever considering their hateful actions towards prostitutes as lacking morality.

    It's one of those things that - and I hate to say this because I am very bad about keeping my mouth shut on issues I feel strongly about - is very difficult to discuss without someone becoming irrational and inflammatory. When it comes to prostitution, all logic seems to fly out the door. You're right, very educated, eloquent people can become savage when this topic is broached.

    I don't believe this is the case since it is neither unique to America or to Christianity.

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    Veteran Member AngelKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    I think people need to realize that they are all throwing stones out of a glass universe. People are so quick to point the moral finger at others, without truly questioning the repercussions of their own actions in life. In general people do need to settle down, look at the big picture, realize we have bigger stuff to worry about right now, and only judge when they are blameless themselves. Which is basically impossible these days.

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by AngelKing View Post
    I think people need to realize that they are all throwing stones out of a glass universe. People are so quick to point the moral finger at others, without truly questioning the repercussions of their own actions in life. In general people do need to settle down, look at the big picture, realize we have bigger stuff to worry about right now, and only judge when they are blameless themselves. Which is basically impossible these days.
    The worst are hypocrites. While I will attack girls who do extras in clubs, I don't judge escorts. The reason is I was a stripper and while I never had sex with money there were situations where this came close (such as a guy masturbating while I danced).

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    The problem is, we are all hypocrites on some level or another. No one is above blame. To judge others indicates a belief in moral superiority, which is a pretty big claim to make these days.

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeybobby View Post
    It's helpful for me to think of myself as a detached observer, kind of just watching things like it's a big movie playing in front of me. A movie can't hurt me. It's just something that's happening for my entertainment/amusement. When viewed this way, it's hard to get rattled, or even be overly surprised by bizarre behaviour by others.

    I think you pegged it in your OP. Normally calm, rational people behaving bizarrely, or spouting seemingly insane opinions. Our sort of instinctive reaction is "this shouldn't be happening"...or "they shouldn't be that way". This is just a form of non-acceptance of reality though. Anytime we fight reality, we lose...and we suffer. Wishing things were other than they are creates a bunch of emotional reactions. It's ok to feel these things, but recognizing what causes it helps to diminish the suffering.
    HTH.

    Thank you Bobby. You always know just what to say to explain where the emotional turmoil comes from, and therefore how to strip it (hehe) of it's power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    As Katherine Hepburn put it so eloquently " Nature is what we were put here to rise above"

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    My favourite is when people say that prostitution should not be legalized because if it was "every woman would prostitute to get some easy money."

    I always give them an earful about how it can be easy money but it takes time and effort to get there. And that no matter how legal it is, people are still going to shit on the women who are prostitutes. It's a job that can be hard on you emotionally, physically and psychologically and no matter how safe we all are, there are always accidents (for example, a streetworker who can't properly screen her johns can have a condom break and contract an sti).
    Also, not every woman would want to make 'easy money' as a prostitute. Some women grow up wanting to be doctors, some grow up wanting to pursue a PhD, some want to be self-employed business women who make (a lot of) money off of men in exchange for sexual services of any kind (strippers, prostitutes, escorts, camgirls etc).

    Anyway, I don't understand the hate either. I think though that a lot of women are envious of the perceived freedom that women who 'make a lot of easy money' have and that. Also, like someone else brought up: men don't like the fact that women can be in a position of power to make money off their bodies because it's unfair.

    I give up. My mom said some really shitty things when she found out that I'm a stripper and I don't get that either. I take off my clothes. Why the hate?

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    ^^^ That argument always astounds me. It's almost as bad as those that say we shouldn't give equal rights to gays because then everyone will become gay and the human race will die out. I was amazed to hear this pathetic excuse for an argument once. I am more amazed every time I hear it repeated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    As Katherine Hepburn put it so eloquently " Nature is what we were put here to rise above"

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    i think it goes beyond morals and stuff to what elvia was talking about. it's about the social order. it's about playing by the rules. that's why people are meaner to prostitutes than trophy wives. i've noticed that a lot of people will even be less tough on a street hooker who'll do anything for 20$, but will judge a high end sober girl harshly for charging 400/hr for a covered bj. how dare she think she's worth that?!?! what a stuck up bitch. she should be grateful to be able to pay men to cum in her eye. she needs to know her place. let's put her in her place.

    it's why you can't be attractive and smart and have self-respect without catching criticism.

    if one woman is willing to do everything for nothing, she hates the woman who'll do little for a lot. and she doesn't realize that some men would rather pay. it has nothing to do with what he's getting, or even the quality of who he's getting it from. it's perceived value. people value more highly what they pay dearly for. it's why a man will love a heartless bitch and snub a doormat.

    and the men who criticise prostitutes? well, again, they expect freebies. they're the same men who expect everything female to want them. they're the same ones who hate hot girls who can do better and lesbians. they're the ones who ask strippers what we'll do for a dollar, but would say "is that all?" if she she gave him ass to mouth. they're just worthless bitches. and that's why they complain, because deep down they know it.
    -love everyone but keep them far from your soul-

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvia View Post
    ^^^ That argument always astounds me. It's almost as bad as those that say we shouldn't give equal rights to gays because then everyone will become gay and the human race will die out.
    Well, after all, that IS the agenda.

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    Default Re: Blinding Rage Towards Prostitutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by she sells sanctuary View Post
    i think it goes beyond morals and stuff to what elvia was talking about. it's about the social order. it's about playing by the rules. that's why people are meaner to prostitutes than trophy wives. i've noticed that a lot of people will even be less tough on a street hooker who'll do anything for 20$, but will judge a high end sober girl harshly for charging 400/hr for a covered bj. how dare she think she's worth that?!?! what a stuck up bitch. she should be grateful to be able to pay men to cum in her eye. she needs to know her place. let's put her in her place.

    it's why you can't be attractive and smart and have self-respect without catching criticism.

    if one woman is willing to do everything for nothing, she hates the woman who'll do little for a lot. and she doesn't realize that some men would rather pay. it has nothing to do with what he's getting, or even the quality of who he's getting it from. it's perceived value. people value more highly what they pay dearly for. it's why a man will love a heartless bitch and snub a doormat.

    and the men who criticise prostitutes? well, again, they expect freebies. they're the same men who expect everything female to want them. they're the same ones who hate hot girls who can do better and lesbians. they're the ones who ask strippers what we'll do for a dollar, but would say "is that all?" if she she gave him ass to mouth. they're just worthless bitches. and that's why they complain, because deep down they know it.
    You are right. You reminded me of the other thread where people were talking about trophy wives and how when you get down to it they are no better than escorts. I've seen that to in real life. I've had friends cut down escorts and even strippers yet think nothing of sleeping around with guys. I had a friend who would literally sleep with anyone who bought her dinner because "he expects it".

    When you mentioned being smart, attractive and self respect this hit me because I've dealt with this my entire life. I've always been smart and pretty. People often judged me for being a model and dancer because "you're so smart". Yes, but we live in a society that doesn't respect smart women. Smart women are villified by the media or often attacked by their looks. Smart women are often paid less than guys for the same jobs. I've had this happen many times. And of course beautiful women are often made comments of how they can't be smart, even though this is a lie. I assert that any beautiful woman that has had a long career in the entertainment industry has to have brains but used their looks.

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