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Thread: Immigration rant no. 137

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    In Arizona, a lot of businesses are hurting because many immigrants left the state, so most of their customers are gone.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul...oenix-20100723
    Further illustration of the problem.

    But if you don't think a lot of them are sending some or all of the money home...

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    I'm sure a good number of them send some of the money home. They can't send it all home because they need food and a place to sleep.

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    There was even a book being passed around various countries (In Asia I think) called how to get welfare in America (or a related name).
    This sounds kind of like an urban legend... link to source?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    I think her case and many others are legit. The case I posted is not and that woman needs to pay for her hospital. If that sounds cruel, I've known people who got hit with medical bills yet we let people like her off the hook. I'm not sure what you mean about the Republican Party since I don't support them. I used to be a Democrat and agree with them on social issues, but not money issues.
    If you agree with democrats on social issues, where do you think the money for the social programs come from? I think if it were possible to have the democratic social policies with republican taxes, most of us would choose that side.
    Also, hospitals are required to treat anybody that comes through the door, payment possible or not; I don't think that treating a person with absolutely no money because they can't pay is "letting them off the hook." They are still dirt poor and in bad health, they just haven't been let to die in the street. And just because you know somebody that has been wronged does not make it the rule... it may be the exception. The people you know will be "let off the hook" as well if they become poverty stricken. There is no advantage to not being able to pay bills.
    Last edited by nelly33; 10-18-2010 at 11:05 PM. Reason: added info

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    Quote Originally Posted by camille27 View Post
    it is an absurd argument when people use this "my great grand parents came here from italy and they did it legally" rationale. it is an extremely rare thing for an immigrant to not do SOMETHING illegal, whether it be bribing someone, changing a birthdate on a document to increase the odds of getting a visa, lying about something on an application, whatever.

    it is VERY difficult to get into the united states. the likelihood for entry decreases with age, skin darkness, socioeconomic status, education level...so again, there are far too many people who are ranting and raving about doing shit the "legal" way when they don't know the obstructions in place that make the legal way nearly impossible for so many people.

    and if you really don't see the bigotry inherent to "arizona is starting to look like mexico", then i don't know what to tell you. if you do not want to live in close proximity to mexicans, perhaps you should not live so close to the mexican border.
    and why should i have to move? i haven't done anything wrong.if i wanted to go to another country i would never have the balls to do it illegally. period. have you ever been to arizona?? phoenix? glendale? peoria? surprise? probably not. doesn't sound like you have. i really have to question the character of these people when they are so willing to break such huge laws. and last time i checked identity theft is a HUGE felony. this is a BIG problem here whether people want to realize it or not. and btw I WAS BORN HERE LEGALLY.
    Last edited by Kitten Foster; 10-19-2010 at 05:00 AM. Reason: because

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    Quote Originally Posted by camille27 View Post
    yes, i watched it.
    i suppose you would rather the doctors let her bleed out on the ground outside of the hospital? or maybe waited for the mother and baby to die from complications? if you cannot see the obvious reason why she was given a free c-section courtesy of u.s. taxpayers, then i don't know what to tell you.

    the fact is, your tax dollars go to lots of shit. if you knew about all the things that tax money is used for, you would probably be very unhappy. but you are choosing an easy scapegoat for your hostility.
    your tax dollars provide rapists in prison with medical care, wifi internet access, and three meals a day, but a pregnant woman who just crossed a river should be turned away from a hospital? please.


    again. compassion. a lovely trait to possess.

    deleiver the baby and send the baby, mother and hospital bill back to mexico. k thanks.

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    Quote Originally Posted by camille27 View Post
    how many "mooch" off the system? where are you getting your information from? what are the numbers of undocumented immigrants who are "mooching"? because there are very few progressive countries in which a hospital will turn ANYONE away because of their inability to pay, whether it's for a childbirth, a papercut, a heart attack, whatever.

    so what are the welfare systems that mexican immigrants are draining? public education? public education has been failing for decades. healthcare? this is provided in any humane society despite one's ability to pay. any stable country you go to, no doctor will let you die because you cannot pay. food subsidies? so people should starve? and then they will end up in the emergency room anyway? show the significant drain that mexican immigrants are placing on society. jobs? that was the goal of nafta! u.s. citizens want cheap everything and then they get shocked when jobs have to go to non-us citizens in order to keep costs low.


    so where is the drain on the "system"? your tax dollars are going mostly to build highways and to fund weapon research for present and future wars, not to pregnant mexican women.

    even if you kicked every undocumented immigrant out of the united states, the public education system would still be a trainwreck, the healthcare system would still me a mess, government aid would still be ineffective. that is the problem with a scapegoat. you are blaming something that is not the cause for the problem. it is so common during a bad economy to blame an easy target for everything. hitler did this. he was extremely successful at getting rid of his problem. isn't this what the other poster was suggesting? rounding up all of "them", jailing anyone who tried to protect "them", getting "them" out of our country?

    that is not even a valid arguement. nobody is trying to mustard gas or kill the illegal aliens. do you know of any other country that just allows illegal immigrants to pour over their borders all day every day?? if you do please share. i'm dying to hear this. really. i'll wait....

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    and truth be told Camille; this has been a very long going problem here. the sad thing is that yes, it did take the shitty state of the current economy for people outside of az, tx, and ca to start noticing that something does need to be done. now i will say this as everyone pretty much knows where i stand when it comes to the topic of illegal immigration; our policy on how foreigners become citizens here definitely DOES need a HUGE makeover. but that does not make it OK for people to cross into a foreign country illegally and they should be aware of the possible consequences that can happen.

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeybobby View Post
    If it all just comes down to a buck, do you think there are ways to save a buck that don't involve picking on desperately poor immigrants and their babies? If I'm not mistaken, didn't Trillions just disappear due to Wall Street shenanigans, and an unnecessary war? This is small potatoes. Welcoming immigrants and being generous is what the US is known for. That's a good thing to be known for....as opposed to making war, and corporate welfare. Right?

    ETA: btw, every nickle you gift these people gets spent right there in your community. You all benefit indirectly from it in a thousand unseen ways.
    while i do agree with this to a certain extent; we the people can not support these illegal aliens while we can barely support our selves with our 9.7% unemployment rate in arizona! and yes we are a country that is founded on being welcoming to immigrants; legal ones though. not illegal ones that come here and steal identities and milk welfare and pop out 20 kids and sell drugs out of their section 8 houses! mkay?

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    Quote Originally Posted by eagle2 View Post
    In Arizona, a lot of businesses are hurting because many immigrants left the state, so most of their customers are gone.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul...oenix-20100723

    it balances itself out when i don't have to pay to feed, educate, clothe, house, insure, and jail them.

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    it's just fabulous how most of the people that are pro illegal immigration are from way up fucking north and most have never even been to az, tx, ca or even mexico. yeah i said it.

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    ^^The multiquote button is right beside the quote button. Click it and that little box will turn pink, click it on every post you want to quote, but on the last one click the quote button.....this will add them all in one post, so you don't have to post like 6 different times.
    "I hear you calling and it's needles and pins. I wanna hurt you just to hear you screaming my name...You're poision. but I don't wanna break these chains.... I wanna love you but I'd better not touch."

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    i am aware of this. i was responding as i was reading. normally i would not post like this but holy jeebus this topic gets my blood boiling.

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    I have no problem with the disabled or the spouses and kids getting it. My big issue is people who never paid in like the Soviet couple. I know most immigrants aren't a drain, but I'd like to see a system where those who are only coming for the welfare deported. There was even a book being passed around various countries (In Asia I think) called how to get welfare in America (or a related name). When people come to make a better life I welcome them. In fact I worked in ESL and enjoyed meeting immigrants. My issue is strictly a money one and it's across the board. I don't want to pay for American freeloaders either.
    Did you read the link I sent you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_May_Fuller

    She paid in $24 buck and got $24,000 from social security. Also, "old soviet people" aren't going to receive full social security pension benefits, there is no way they can. Do you know what they qualified for? Are you sure they didn't have any other money put away or help from their family? Also, many religious organizations helped emmigrating Soviets. They helped our family and we paid them back. Seriously, look at your own social security statements, and look at the social security disability portion on the left side, you receive the booklet annually.

    Tell me, can you live on that stipend? NO ONE comes here for the "welfare" this is just ridiculous. It costs way more to live in the US than in a third world country. And people from those countries tend to have familial and community support to make up for lack of resources. People come here for opportunity and to make money. No one gives a shit about patriotism, even more americans.

    People care about their families and loved ones and will do what it takes for them to survive, then prosper. This is human nature and you cannot fight it or stop it with borders.

    Also, re: Melonie's statistics. LA County is going to be skewed in its results due to having probably the highest Mexican/Hispanic population in the US. And the Mexican culture and neighborhoods in LA go back hundreds of years with a very rich history and heritage. Last part is sort of irrelevant, I guess. Point is, I wouldn't use LA County's stats to prove anything.

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    ida may fuller was a legal u.s. citizen and resident born in the u.s. and worked a job that paid into payroll taxes not some under the table job. there is a difference between her and the illegal immigrant problem. the two are not comparable.

    Ida May Fuller (September 6, 1874 – January 1975) was the first American to receive a monthly benefit Social Security check. She received the check, amounting to $22.54, on January 31, 1940.
    Fuller was born on a farm outside Ludlow, Vermont. She spent most of her life in Ludlow, working as a legal secretary, but lived with her niece in Brattleboro, Vermont, during her last eight years. She retired in 1939, having paid just three years of payroll taxes. She received monthly Social Security checks until her death in 1975 at age 100. By the time of her death, Fuller had collected $22,888.92 from Social Security monthly benefits, compared to her contributions of $24.75 to the system.

    and again she was the first person to ever start paying into it where most of these illegal immigrants don't pay a penny into it.

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    Lol... Ok you know how HARD it is to become a citizen of the United States? I came here in 96 meaning I've been here since 96 AND I am still NOT a citizen of the united states. My family and I came her on a visitation visa and overstayed and became "Out of Status".. When I turned 18 I took measures to Adjust my status. What those measures are? I will not say. To adjust your status in America after an expired visa.. You have to pay $1400 to USCIS to file your paperwork. The $1400 is ONLY to file.. and to file yourself. Some people pay up to $4000 to a lawyer to do this for them but I decided to do it myself.

    After you file your docs, a few weeks later they send you a letter for fingerprinting (to make sure you're not a criminal amongst other things) 3 months later they send you a social security card that should be used for WORK ONLY and in that time you will also get a travel stamp (which allows you to travel to your home country for emergencies but did I use my stamp? Hell no I was too scared they wouldn't let me back in the country)

    After another 3 months they call you for interview and ask you a series of questions and notifiy you if you passed interview or not. I know people that have been arrested and deported right after this interview. If you pass they give you a greencard if you don't pass you can file again OR they deport you depending on WHY you failed interview.

    ALOT of you don't know that during this process they require you to get a physical. If you are HIV positive or have any deadly disease they deport you RIGHT AWAY. America does NOT play about having sick immigrants in their country.

    Anyways, Today I am a green card holder/Legal Resident of this country. In a few years I will be able to file for citizenship but will I? Hell no. I just want you all to know that to become an american citizen is NOT easy. Some of you keep saying it is easy and don't even know the process. IT IS A VERY RIGOROUS PROCESS...

    However, Obtaining REAL (fake) documents is EASY! I know 3 guys off the top of my head that MAKE social security cards for a living. I also know 2 ladies at my local dmv that issues drivers license to illegals. Oooh and mind you my dad is a diplomat and has connections around the world. I am sure a birth certificate from the Virgin Islands is VERY easy to obtain..... Hey I am just stating facts here.

    Alot of you Americans need to READ up on the laws. You guys really DO NOT know what is going on in this country but can make good argument.

    Just to back up what I have just said. This is how I adjusted my status in the States .

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Foster View Post
    and yes we are a country that is founded on being welcoming to immigrants; legal ones though. not illegal ones that come here and steal identities and milk welfare and pop out 20 kids and sell drugs out of their section 8 houses! mkay?
    Good majority of the people who do this are actually legal citizens born here into a multi-generational culture of poverty and despair.

    Have you ever owned a rental property and rented it to illegals? They are the BEST tenants you will ever have. Try renting to a section 8 person. They trash their properties because they do not care, they have no value for hard work.

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    ^ Because they don't want trouble.. of course

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Foster View Post
    ida may fuller was a legal u.s. citizen and resident born in the u.s. and worked a job that paid into payroll taxes not some under the table job. there is a difference between her and the illegal immigrant problem. the two are not comparable.

    Ida May Fuller (September 6, 1874 – January 1975) was the first American to receive a monthly benefit Social Security check. She received the check, amounting to $22.54, on January 31, 1940.
    Fuller was born on a farm outside Ludlow, Vermont. She spent most of her life in Ludlow, working as a legal secretary, but lived with her niece in Brattleboro, Vermont, during her last eight years. She retired in 1939, having paid just three years of payroll taxes. She received monthly Social Security checks until her death in 1975 at age 100. By the time of her death, Fuller had collected $22,888.92 from Social Security monthly benefits, compared to her contributions of $24.75 to the system.

    and again she was the first person to ever start paying into it where most of these illegal immigrants don't pay a penny into it.
    Of course. I was countering Kelly's argument that only those who paid into SS should receive it.

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    kayla, i get what you're saying and i never said that the legal way of getting citizenship is easy; not actually saying that you said i did but i have read this whole thread and i honestly don't remember anyone actually saying that it was "easy" unless i missed something. none the less you yourself are not out there stealing identities of innocent also hard working people and you your self are hard working and paying taxes and your fair share into the pool so kudos to you. just because the system is tough though does not make it right or ok or fair to the taxpayers for all these ridiculous amounts of undocumented people pouring over our borders. i have several immigrant friends from different parts of the world who came here legally and while they said it was not 'easy' it was worth it because they don't have to constantly look over their shoulder and worry about immigration picking them up. nothing in life that is worth having is ever easy to get.

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    Quote Originally Posted by KS_Stevia View Post
    Good majority of the people who do this are actually legal citizens born here into a multi-generational culture of poverty and despair.

    Have you ever owned a rental property and rented it to illegals? They are the BEST tenants you will ever have. Try renting to a section 8 person. They trash their properties because they do not care, they have no value for hard work.
    um again; most of the illegal immigrants out here ARE on section 8 housing and DO trash their housing. i have lived in several apartment complexes FULL of them. now i'm in a house and most of my neighbors are on section 8 and are still illegal as fuck and trashing their houses and the neighborhood. i dont even want to take my niece to the park here because SR-13 has tagged it all up with their b.s. and they are all over in these parts.

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    See this was the reason why I made the post I made. Most Illegals don't live like illegals. They live like US citizens. They have fake REAL ids (like you said kitten) they have REAL fake ss cards. Have you ever met an illegal Nigerian? and Don't say there are not alot of illegal nigerians because there are. They're not living in Section 8. They will never use government assistance because they are scared of being traced. How do I know? I've been there. They live pretty lavish lifestyles if not, normal lifestyles just like Americans. In fact before 9/11 fake documents were easy to make/come by now that it's harder due to the strict laws now put in place. Illegal immigration hasn't stopped .. They haven't ran out of ideas. They're getting smarter. Every time the US adds a new law they find a way around it.

    Oh and just FYI, Just to be clear on where I stand on this. I feel the US should secure it's boarders. I think mexicans should go through the same process I went through to become legal here. I don't think illegal immigrants should be deported. They should be given a chance.. everyone deserves a chance. The US should grant amnesty to those immigrants that have completed high school or obtained a GED, disease free and have a clean criminal record. I thought Obama was going to do this... but I guess he was all talk.

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    This may not go over too well but here goes. Where does it say we owe US citizenship to anyone, no matter where they are from? If you sneak in, you you should be sent back to where you came from, no matter where that is, and told to come back and do it legally.

    I'm going to the movies today (gonna see Red). Should I just sneak by the cashier and ushers and see if it works? If I get caught, should I argue that I should be allowed to stay?

    Immigrants are welcome but they have to enter legally. No exceptions. If you make exceptions, you encourage more illegal immigration.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    and.. I am starting to notice that when you all speak on illegal immigration .. it's mexicans you are referring to. Do you understand that there are OTHER illegal nationalities here? They don't sneak in. Like Nigerians can't swim here.. can they? Their status expire and just stick around...

    The U.S have a bigger fish to fry...It's not just illegal mexicans they are dealing with. All the money this country has and the border isn't secured? There is something wrong.

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    Wow, just wow.

    Wanna' know the quickest way to ensure that illegal immigrants pay taxes? Make them legal. Most immigrants I know would be thrilled to be in the system and would have no problem in paying taxes.

    But of course the people who who claim that they oppose illegal immigration because of the resource drain don't really want this either, because the truth is that they just don't want immigrants here at all.

    And for those rocket scientists that just don't want immigration period, riddle me this: who will be working and paying Social Security taxes when all of those Gen X'ers hit retirement? In case anyone hasn't noticed, the nation's population is getting older and people born here are not reproducing at a very fast rate. We are eventually going to need some new blood from somewhere if we are going to pay for the swell of retirees that will be collecting checks in the next 10 years.

    Also, if we kick the immigrants out, who will do the jobs that they currently do? Not the little sissies and weak minded children that many families are raising here in the U.S. today. Hell, it is actually amazing to me when I see kids that would rather earn $8 per hour ringing a register than earn $12-16 per hour in a slaughterhouse or fish plant. Never mind washing dishes, cleaning offices and factories, etc. I would suggest renting "A Day Without a Mexican" - it is a fascinating movie.

    The unemployment rates are high now, but wait and see what happens when all of these old folks hit retirement, but still need a variety of services.

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    Default Re: Immigration rant no. 137

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    Wow, just wow.

    Wanna' know the quickest way to ensure that illegal immigrants pay taxes? Make them legal. Most immigrants I know would be thrilled to be in the system and would have no problem in paying taxes.
    Then they should have done it legally if they love America so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    But of course the people who who claim that they oppose illegal immigration because of the resource drain don't really want this either, because the truth is that they just don't want immigrants here at all.
    Thank God we have you here to tell us why we feel the way we do.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickdugan View Post
    The unemployment rates are high now, but wait and see what happens when all of these old folks hit retirement, but still need a variety of services.
    What's your point here? The retirements and need for services will cause the unemployment rate to go down whether there are illegals here or not. The presence of illegals causes the unemployment rate to be higher because they are taking up some jobs that could be done by American citizens or holders of green cards.

    Here's a news flash for you too. The new politically correct term for illegals is "new Americans". You managed to phase out the word "illegal" when discussing immigrants. Why not just go right to the new term and be walking lock-step with the looney left?
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

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