Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

  1. #1
    God/dess Elvia's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,636
    Thanks
    495
    Thanked 744 Times in 433 Posts

    Default Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    I realize this probably isn't going to be a welcome topic to everyone, but it's been on my mind for awhile now and I'd love to get everyone's perspective on this.

    I used to spend quite a bit of time on a gender studies forum where we discussed various gender issues in modern society. At that time, I always laughed at the people who said feminism had only served to reverse things, that we were getting to a point where women would become the more privileged sex and it would become commonplace and acceptable for men to be denied equal treatment.

    I still think that viewpoint is a big extreme, and I'd say there still are a number of issues related to gender inequality that women have to deal with. But I have to say, in the last few years, I've been startled to see more women adopting and openly expressing an attitude where they feel they are due MORE than men, simply for being born women. I see more and more women saying things that, if the genders were reversed, would be considered horribly oppressive and abusive against women.

    I see women rejecting the traditional roles for women, but also expecting men to adhere to their traditional gender roles. The rationalization is often even more disturbing, along the lines of "that's what a real man does/is" or suggesting that it's just such a glorious privilege for a man to be near a woman that he should make it his life's ambition to give her whatever she wants or needs. I see women openly rejoicing about "playing" men, lying to them and manipulating them to get what they want, then disposing of them. I don't doubt that these people would be up in arms if a man talked about women in a way that suggested he regarded them not so much as fellow human beings, but as tools and playthings to be used however he sees fit and then discarded.

    Is this commonplace? Has this become acceptable? Why? Are more and more women becoming less interested in equality and more interested in "getting back at" men? Should we expect another backlash against this? Does this attitude further or hinder the women's rights movement? Additional thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    As Katherine Hepburn put it so eloquently " Nature is what we were put here to rise above"

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Elvia For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Banned ArmySGT.'s Avatar
    Joined
    May 2005
    Location
    SW Counter Troll HQ
    Posts
    5,582
    Thanks
    1,589
    Thanked 1,674 Times in 1,043 Posts
    Blog Entries
    13
    My Mood
    Amused

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    Lets start with gender neutral Laws. Lets not call it Maternity leave or Paternity leave, Lets call it Parenting Leave, as an example.

    Yes, Laws have crept on us a little at a time creating Protected classes of People. Look who is not protected from a Hate crime for example. The boiled frog method, one degree at a time.

  4. #3
    Featured Member flickad's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,860
    Thanks
    268
    Thanked 103 Times in 67 Posts
    My Mood
    Pensive

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    I don't think women like this (I guess you'd call them misandrists) form anything like a majority, but I have come across a few of them in my time. I find it as repulsive as any form of bigotry or maltreatment and feel that, if anything, it hinders the women's rights movement by making feminism look like it is a female supremacy movement rather than being (as it should be) about equal rights and equal treatment.

    I think that misandrist women are deeply angry at men, perhaps due to past relationships with men in which they felt exploited, but they have wrongly and unfairly tarred the entire gender with the same brush and feel entitled to treat all men in an exploitative way in turn. I think we are already seeing a backlash from fringe groups of men, and this will expand if female misandry becomes more common. The treatment of men in family law can, in some cases, be unequal as well, and we are already seeing a backlash from some men with respect to this.

    I've also seen statistics that indicate that a huge proportion of women are themselves misogynistic with respect to issues like rape, seeing it as the fault of the victim rather than the rapist where the victim is 'provocative' (note that no such standard is ever applied to murder victims or victims of child abuse - and rightly so - but why are rape victims alone felt to be responsible for the crimes of someone else?).

    Recent local media coverage re this latter issue:

    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/soc...009-16d16.html

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...16/2820499.htm

    Male victims of rape are silenced by the cultural expectations of male sexuality and, when they do press charges, can be seen as a joke:

    http://thecurvature.com/2009/03/20/w...-rape-apology/
    http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...725927054.html
    http://www.smh.com.au/national/strip...0730-e2e6.html
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/stri...-1225758211161
    Last edited by flickad; 10-22-2010 at 06:10 PM.

  5. #4
    Veteran Member
    Joined
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    493
    Thanks
    32
    Thanked 211 Times in 137 Posts

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    I agree with pretty much everything the OP said and think it's an interesting topic. I think a further explanation is that there are people- both men and women who are just selfish and shallow and they will look to get whatever they can and that varying cultural norms will allow them more or less opportunity depending on the era. I don't think the majority of these people are aware of much outside themselves or concerned with "getting back" etc. at anyone.

  6. #5
    Featured Member
    Joined
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,030
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 117 Times in 78 Posts

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    I think there are some women that are "sexist pigs", but plenty more men are too.

    The likely outcome as I see it is increasing numbers of women developing this attitude while increasing numbers of men reject it. That said, I think it is safe to say we will eventually always have a prevalence of both.

  7. #6
    God/dess anouk.oui's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,961
    Thanks
    3,002
    Thanked 1,485 Times in 738 Posts
    My Mood
    Blah

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    i think both sides are half true. i wouldnt however jump to defend men from women straight away. im not a feminist but the one year i spent in film school, there were 16 of us, 11 boys and 5 girls. guess who got the better opportunities, picked up most skills, were more center of attention? and guess who got to listen to sexist jokes in the car and pick up cables for two semesters?
    besides some men are really into spoiling and being the provider kinda thing. i think we are far from having the tables turned.

  8. #7
    Member
    Joined
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    I don't think women like this (I guess you'd call them misandrists) form anything like a majority, but I have come across a few of them in my time. I find it as repulsive as any form of bigotry or maltreatment and feel that, if anything, it hinders the women's rights movement by making feminism look like it is a female supremacy movement rather than being (as it should be) about equal rights and equal treatment.

    I think that misandrist women are deeply angry at men, perhaps due to past relationships with men in which they felt exploited, but they have wrongly and unfairly tarred the entire gender with the same brush and feel entitled to treat all men in an exploitative way in turn. I think we are already seeing a backlash from fringe groups of men, and this will expand if female misandry becomes more common. The treatment of men in family law can, in some cases, be unequal as well, and we are already seeing a backlash from some men with respect to this.
    To add to this great post, I feel the media is partly to blame to the rise of this type of feminism. We see evidence of this everyday in the latest MTV music video depicting subservient men (and vice versa) or having role models like Britanny Spears and her "boy-toy" husbands. It sends a clear message to young impressionable females.

    To compound the problem, our current generation and the next are conditioned to be selfish, materialistic with much little respect as our parent's generation had. We are a generation of easy, instant self-gratification. It doesn't surprise me that some women act and feel the way they do since the media, pop culture and their network of like-minded friends reinforce that this kind of attitude is acceptable on a daily basis. To be fair, men also get the wrong messages as well and the results are the assholes that will do anything to get into your pants.

    It is a pretty vicious cycle when it comes to angry women. I would agree many that feel this way would have been treated very poorly in the past and as a result paints all males with the same brush. Like-wise these same women will perpetuate the same behavior on the "nice" men consequently producing the next batch of "assholes".

    The feminist movement has now given women a taste of what men have enjoyed for decades, to be in control. So does this now give them the right to act like "sexist pigs"? Personally, I would have hoped for a little more understanding and compassion from the female gender to be quite honest...but hey the world isn't perfect and some guys do need a taste of their own medicine. It's too bad we get some casualties along the way.

  9. #8
    Banned
    Joined
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    11,037
    Thanks
    1,891
    Thanked 5,124 Times in 3,086 Posts

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    Elvia, I have an idea why you started this thread and I agree with you. I am seeing this attitude a lot lately with women, even ones with jobs. I've seen women stating that a man should always pay for a first date even though she asked him out. I've seen people attack stay at home dads yet applaud stay at home moms. To me it's the same thing. I've seen women want to have careers but heaven forbid if a guy wants to go into a tradionally female job.

    I am an feminst but I like to call myself an equality feminist. By this I mean everything should be equal. If I work the same job as a man I should be paid the same, but by the same token I believe men should have equality when it comes to children, which in many cases they don't. I believe however asks the person out pays. I also believe that everyone pays their fair share and not to expect the other person to pay. I think many of the women who believe a man should pay for everything have ether gotten stung by men or they (this is in the case of dancers) have gotten so abused by men they hate them.


    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
    Lets start with gender neutral Laws. Lets not call it Maternity leave or Paternity leave, Lets call it Parenting Leave, as an example.

    Yes, Laws have crept on us a little at a time creating Protected classes of People. Look who is not protected from a Hate crime for example. The boiled frog method, one degree at a time.
    This brings up something I see often at companies. Many companies offer paid maternity leave but if a dad wants to take off, he often has to use his sick and vacation days. Then if he gets divorced he often doesn't get custody but mom usually does, though in many cases he's the better parent. Personally I think paid leave should be across the board and either everyone gets it or no one does. Yes I realize moms need to recover after a birth but they don't need much more than 2 months unless it's an emergency.

  10. #9
    Featured Member flickad's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,860
    Thanks
    268
    Thanked 103 Times in 67 Posts
    My Mood
    Pensive

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    ^^

    Yes, this is very much my view as well. Stay-at-home fathers should be treated in the same way as stay-at-home mothers, just as women should have the same rights as men in the workplace. And I don't see why the man should always pay, either. Equal rights should mean equal responsibilities too.

  11. #10
    God/dess firemaiden04's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    2,652
    Thanks
    3,054
    Thanked 2,005 Times in 903 Posts

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    Where I live, there are a LOT of guys who really, really despise women. A lot of the men in my fiancee's family have a tremendously negative attitude towards anything with a vagina. In fact, Joe's dad told him not to marry me because I'm manipulating him into marriage for the sole purpose of then divorcing him and taking half his shit. And I was like "...." I mean, this man seriously believes that. Luckily, Joe finds the concept ridiculous.

    However, in the past several years, I've encountered more and more women, mainly my age and younger, who have the exact same opinion of men. A lot of females in my area specifically want to date men they can control--and what's more, they get a kind of high off of that control. They'll come up with ridiculous demands for things they don't really want--they just want to prove to themselves or other people how much power they wield over the boyfriend. And they justify their actions by the simple fact that this person has a penis.

    I don't get it. I mean, my ex boyfriend raped me, beat me, and I lived in hell for two and a half years. And I don't hate men. So what the fuck is their excuse?

    I honestly don't think it's one-sided. I think there's starting to be a distinctive separation between the sexes. I think a lack of respect or consideration is being pushed, and I don't get it.

  12. #11
    Banned
    Joined
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    11,037
    Thanks
    1,891
    Thanked 5,124 Times in 3,086 Posts

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    ^^

    Yes, this is very much my view as well. Stay-at-home fathers should be treated in the same way as stay-at-home mothers, just as women should have the same rights as men in the workplace. And I don't see why the man should always pay, either. Equal rights should mean equal responsibilities too.
    I have a friend who's a stay at home mom and she always bashes stay at home dads as lazy. The irony is she's one of the laziest people ever who rarely cooks and cleans and her husband is constantly telling her to get a job. She's one of those women who believes in gender roles (which she's entitled to feel) but yet if one disagrees she gets annoyed. For instance she recently got invited to a bridal shower that was coed and she was angry because guys were going to be there.

    Speaking of which, women only bridal and baby showers annoy the hell out of me. I never go to them because I find them demeaning but am always stunned by how many women who are career women think these are fun and "every woman loves them". I hate them and when I marry or have kids I will have a coed party.

  13. #12
    God/dess carmen_b's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2007
    Location
    the mountains ....
    Posts
    14,202
    Thanks
    15,165
    Thanked 21,346 Times in 9,308 Posts

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    ^ I've never been to a bridal or baby shower. The whole thing seems ridiculous. If my best friend has one, that will be the only exception.

  14. #13
    Banned
    Joined
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    11,037
    Thanks
    1,891
    Thanked 5,124 Times in 3,086 Posts

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    Quote Originally Posted by carmen_b View Post
    ^ I've never been to a bridal or baby shower. The whole thing seems ridiculous. If my best friend has one, that will be the only exception.
    They really are. I've only gone when I was basically forced to, but otherwise I never attend. I send gifts but that's it. It's embarassing to see a bunch of grown women acting like idiots. That's why if I marry or have kids I'll do a coed party like a barbeque (obviously depending on the season). Luckily my mom feels the same way and she never attends them either.

  15. #14
    Member little miss stripper's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    37
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    I second that many women want the power but still expect men to have/serve in "man roles". My husband the stay at home dad of our four beautiful babies. Not only in "real life" but also in the dressing room I often get questioned about it. Many girls comment that they would never support a man who just sits at home. I dare to combat that it is HE who supports me. I rarely do house work so he is the one doing dishes, laundry, the cleaning and the cooking for a family of 6! I work, I sleep and I play with the kids and am blessed. I far out earn what he would right now in the current workplace so why have him carry the burden of supporting us by working two or three jobs when I can just as easily go to work one part time and make our children's lives less stressful. In the end, you do what works for you as a family unit but it does truly irritate me when other girls feel as though they need to tell me how I should be doing things. For all you girls working 8 hours a day to "support" your 24 hours a day stay at home man I know you understand what I'm saying.

  16. #15
    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Boston MA
    Posts
    5,670
    Thanks
    35
    Thanked 144 Times in 74 Posts

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    At that time, I always laughed at the people who said feminism had only served to reverse things, that we were getting to a point where women would become the more privileged sex and it would become commonplace and acceptable for men to be denied equal treatment.
    While I don't think there's an overall conspiracy against those of us with a Y chromosome, there are significant demographic changes in our society that have been in the works over the last thirty years that work in favor of women, and one could say, against the traditional interests of men.

    When we consider that for the last twenty years, there have been more women attending universities than men (54% of college students nationally are female--and the spread is even greater among black men and women in college) and that the focus on moving girls into higher education as a national priority (Title IX funding) has been incredibly successful--last year, there were more PhDs issued to women than men for the first time--we have to acknowledge that with the change from an industrial economy to an informational economy, women are better equipped to capitalize on that sea change in our society. That change has direct socio-economic consequences.

    Look at this recession--it was being called the Mancession because so many of the traditionally male industries (construction, manufacturing, finance, real estate) were absolutely decimated. The idea that a high school education is all that one needs for a decent income (stripping and other sex work aside ) has long since been vaporized.

    What does all this have to do with the original question? Socio-economic power is being exercised by women in ways and on a scale as never before. I hesitate to use the word privilege but rather view the situation as an uncomfortable empowerment of educated women in the workforce. Why uncomfortable? Because there are a lot of women (and not a few men) that are unsure about how/whether/if traditional gender roles are still appropriate or even desirable in this newly forming society.

    Unemployed and underemployed men have never been viewed as desirable by women. Do women want men to be SAHDs and Mr. Moms, tooling kids around in the minivan and organizing playdates for Suzi. Q and her friends? Is that emasculating to the point that women not only don't desire that role for men but don't respect those that do? And what about maternal chauvinism in child rearing? These are questions women are asking themselves, collectively and individually.

    Are more and more women becoming less interested in equality and more interested in "getting back at" men?
    There's a saying out there that women want as much equality as they're comfortable handling. There's something to that.

    Should we expect another backlash against this? Does this attitude further or hinder the women's rights movement?
    From where is the backlash going to originate? With the advancement of so many women into the educated and elite class, men should get used to the idea that the game has changed, and they're not only not going to win by default anymore, but they've permanently giving up ground. With more women in positions of social, economic and political power, there's a new reality that many (of both genders) are uncomfortable acknowledging as reality.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Casual Observer For This Useful Post:


  18. #16
    Banned
    Joined
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    11,037
    Thanks
    1,891
    Thanked 5,124 Times in 3,086 Posts

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    Regarding stay at home dads, I don't mention this often but I'd be fine with it. It's funny because as I've gotten older I've gone from the mentality of a guy with a great career to wanting a guy who makes less than me. As long as he did the cooking and cleaning and taking care of the kids this would be fine with me.

  19. #17
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,493
    Thanks
    120
    Thanked 50 Times in 35 Posts

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    From where is the backlash going to originate? With the advancement of so many women into the educated and elite class, men should get used to the idea that the game has changed, and they're not only not going to win by default anymore, but they've permanently giving up ground. With more women in positions of social, economic and political power, there's a new reality that many (of both genders) are uncomfortable acknowledging as reality.
    Lower marriage rates.
    Things like rap music with it's hyper-masculinity.

  20. #18
    Featured Member flickad's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,860
    Thanks
    268
    Thanked 103 Times in 67 Posts
    My Mood
    Pensive

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    Regarding stay at home dads, I don't mention this often but I'd be fine with it. It's funny because as I've gotten older I've gone from the mentality of a guy with a great career to wanting a guy who makes less than me. As long as he did the cooking and cleaning and taking care of the kids this would be fine with me.
    I'd prefer it, in fact. I hate and refuse to participate in housework, cooking and being around children and also have spent many years training for a professional career with the potential for high income, so it would make no sense for me to stay home if someone was going to. I'd flat-out refuse in any event.

    It's a moot point, really, because I don't and never have wanted children, but still.

  21. #19
    Banned
    Joined
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    11,037
    Thanks
    1,891
    Thanked 5,124 Times in 3,086 Posts

    Default Re: Are Women the New "Sexist Pigs?"

    Quote Originally Posted by flickad View Post
    I'd prefer it, in fact. I hate and refuse to participate in housework, cooking and being around children and also have spent many years training for a professional career with the potential for high income, so it would make no sense for me to stay home if someone was going to. I'd flat-out refuse in any event.

    It's a moot point, really, because I don't and never have wanted children, but still.
    I lost several relationships because I refused to be a stay at home wife. Like I told an ex, I spent 6 years in college/graduate school for a career, not to stay at home. One guy I was dating had less work potential than me and his feeling was he'd work three jobs so he could have a stay at home wife. I told him definitely not me. Another guy (he was a friend who I sometimes fooled around with) was insistant on never dating "evil" career women. Of course he found a 24 year old when he was 33 from a religious family (he was religious). When I date guys I tell them right away I will not change my mind on this and may or may not have kids but will never be a housewife. Strangely, the man I want now feels the exact way and assumes I would never quit my job and he prefers that. I've met a few others like him so I feel more relieved they are easier to find than I thought. I'm glad we have the choice because I'd make a lousy housewife. I can't cook very well and cleaning is not my forte.

Similar Threads

  1. Camming sites for "thick", women with curves and/or BBW
    By strippername in forum Camming Connection
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-12-2014, 07:39 AM
  2. showing some class "support thread" for confident women
    By jadenraine in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-09-2011, 07:14 PM
  3. "women are getting more beautiful"--a new "beauty race"??
    By miss1dancypants in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 12-06-2010, 04:34 PM
  4. Outback mayor seeks "ugly duckling" women
    By Budai in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 08-25-2008, 02:13 AM
  5. Replies: 29
    Last Post: 06-10-2008, 02:26 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •