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Thread: fuck election day

  1. #176
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    Default Re: fuck election day

    THIS is why I really hate Fox News/the Republican Party:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecut...raws-criticism

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Quote Originally Posted by firemaiden04 View Post
    THIS is why I really hate Fox News/the Republican Party:
    I wouldn't blame the Reublican Party, just the nutjob tea party losers.

    Speaking of these losers, I don't know if anyone watches Dancing With The Stars, but last year I started. I started watching because I really like dance and like to see people try to learn dances. Plus I'll watch if they have celebs I like (this year it was Florence Henderson and Jennifer Grey) Anyway this season they've had on Bristol Palin and she's been the worst dancer usually yet keeps getting pushed through because of the tea party nut jobs who have created websites to get people to vote for her. That's one theory and the other is that ABC is going to get Bristol to win so she can get a reality show to help her mother run for presidency. Scary thought. I knew the show was rigged beforehand but this takes the cake with someone who can't even move in the finals. I am definitely never watching again.

    Yes I know it's just a show but I resent these nutjobs rigging everything. Who's to say they won't do this in 2012? I do not want Sarah Palin as president AT ALL. These people are complete homophobic racists (just look at the posts on various sites) and they need to disappear.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    ^^^ yes, absolutely, let's stick with Chris Matthews' 'tingling leg' instead as the benchmark for non-partisan news reporting !



    IMHO the underlying point here is 'what the hell does this sort of thing have to do with any of America's REAL problems and solutions ( or lack thereof ). Such news coverage, from either side of center, merely serves to distract from what's really important.

    I'm sure that beneath all of the controversy some 'egghead' was probably trying to make a tenuous point regarding Obama's 'deification' of Sitting Bull as the original community organizer. GWB and other presidents have been subjected to similar 'egghead' criticism ... arguably to a much greater extent than president Obama. All were distractions from the truly important topics of the day.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ yes, absolutely, let's stick with Chris Matthews' 'tingling leg' instead as the benchmark for non-partisan news reporting !



    IMHO the underlying point here is 'what the hell does this sort of thing have to do with any of America's REAL problems and solutions ( or lack thereof ). Such news coverage, from either side of center, merely serves to distract from what's really important.

    I'm sure that beneath all of the controversy some 'egghead' was probably trying to make a tenuous point regarding Obama's 'deification' of Sitting Bull as the original community organizer. GWB and other presidents have been subjected to similar 'egghead' criticism ... arguably to a much greater extent than president Obama. All were distractions from the truly important topics of the day.
    You are really gonna ruin this web site for me if you wake up the suckers. There are to many of them standing in the street watching the sheriff throw their shit out on the yard holding their last payment from unemployment. But hey you know, dancing with the stars and the two sides calling each other bigoted homophobes (just read the comments on Daily Kos) makes for good free entertainment on the internet.

  5. #180
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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Quote Originally Posted by firemaiden04 View Post
    THIS is why I really hate Fox News/the Republican Party:
    <link>

    Not only that, but ....

    Roger Ailes of Fox News: 'Nazis' are running public radio

    November 18, 2010 | 7:10 pm
    Anyone who has watched Fox News personality Glenn Beck with any regularity has heard warnings of an end of life in America as we know it, specifically a Nazi-style takeover of the government. That could be the eventual end-game, according to Beck, if the big-government policies of the Obama administration go unchecked.



    But in an interview this week, it was Beck's Fox News boss, Roger Ailes, embracing the Nazi rhetoric. And this time the target was National Public Radio. Speaking to the Daily Beast’s Howard Kurtz, Ailes said NPR’s bosses revealed their fascist stripes when they dismissed commentator Juan Williams.
    “They are, of course, Nazis. They have a kind of Nazi attitude,” Ailes told Kurtz. “They are the left wing of Nazism. These guys don't want any other point of view. They don't even feel guilty using tax dollars to spout their propaganda. They are basically Air America with government funding to keep them alive."
    The left-leaning media watchdog group, Media Matters, was first to note how Ailes seemed to be echoing Beck, or vice versa. Media Matters charged: “Fox's ‘Nazi’ rhetoric also comes straight from the top."
    The group’s online critique went on to cite the many times Beck has invoked the Nazis in taking on his liberal foes. In one instance last year, the report noted, Beck compared Obama's call for the expansion of the foreign service via a "civilian national security force" to Hitler’s SS and brownshirts.
    While Beck and some other Fox hosts have leaned heavily on analogies to facism lately, other media figures have invoked the same super-heated rhetoric in the past. Back in the 1990s, it was CNN founder Ted Turner who compared Roger Murdoch to Hilter. Murdoch leads News Corp., which owns Fox News.
    After NPR chief Vivian Schiller spoke Thursday afternoon at the Annenberg School for Communication at USC, an audience member asked what Ailes might have meant to accomplish with his “Nazi” remark.
    “I have no earthly idea,” Schiller said. “I don’t know what he was getting at. It was quite baffling to me to be perfectly honest. I think his words really speak for themselves.”
    Ailes apologized Thursday to the Anti-Defamation League, saying he had been “ad-libbing and should not have chosen that word.”
    He had not, however, apologized to NPR.

    This, from http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/the_...nd-a-nazi.html
    Last edited by threlayer; 11-19-2010 at 11:31 PM. Reason: fix quote coding
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

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  6. #181
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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    well, there are a number of other possible explanations ... for instance that the 90+% of black voters who supported Obama did so for racist reasons ! Personally. I find THAT offensive.

    Offensive or not, the history of voters casting their votes based on their own short term self-interest goes all the way back to the Roman Empire. And in terms of American voting history, voters have always tended to vote first based on 'war' and second based on 'economics'. The previous 2008 election was an exception to this rule. This year's election was not, and was clearly dominated by 'economics'.

    If you want to discuss other aspects besides 'economics' consider this Machiavellian breakdown. With 90+% of the black vote going towards Democrats no matter what, NEITHER political party has much reason to accomodate issues of specific interest to black voters. Same is true of gays, greens etc. This means that Democrats can expect to receive essentially every vote from these subgroups, and also means that Democrats can also expect to continue to receive essentially every vote from these subgroups in future elections REGARDLESS of whether the Democrats actually deliver on any "promises" made. But receiving essentially every vote from these subgroups is NOT sufficient to win elections !

    With 67% of the hispanic vote going towards Democrats, and with hispanic voters comprising a significantly larger group than the above subgroups combined, this is a different story. The Machiavellians would tell you to keep a very close eye on newly elected senator Marco Rubio over the next couple of years to see where this is headed !

    But as this election has again shown, there is a huge group of swing voters who are primarily white, who are primarily middle class, and who are primarily located between the Northeast states and the West Coast states. These swing voters experienced the greatest 'change of opinion' between the last two elections, arguably based on their also having experienced the greatest negative economic changes to their own lives over the past two years. Outside of the Northeast and West Coast states, elections cannot be won without significant support from these primarily white, primarily middle class swing voters. And the Machiavellians would also point out that the Northeast and West Coast states are losing population (thus political clout at the national level ), while the other states are gaining.

    ~
    Sigh, I just say this in passing. That was not racist. Prejudiced? Maybe, racist. Le Sigh....that term is used so interchangebly but alas that is another thread that I will never have enough Aleve on hand to make on this website.

    Excuse any typos, posting reply from mobile.
    If you don't stand for something, you fall for ANYTHING.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Sigh, I just say this in passing. That was not racist. Prejudiced? Maybe, racist. Le Sigh....that term is used so interchangebly but alas that is another thread
    Obviously that comment was hyperbolic counterpoint to the widespread accusations that conservative white voters opposing Obama in 2008 were doing so for reasons of racism. The only real appicability is that mainstream news media spent much effort discussing the potential reasons for lack of Obama support by conservative white voters, and very little effort reporting the nearly unanimous support of Obama by black voters.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Because the nearly unanimous support of Obama by black voters was no different than their nearly unanimous support of Kerry, Gore or any other Democrat ever since Republicans started basing their election strategy around appealing to racists.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Quote Originally Posted by Trem View Post
    Because the nearly unanimous support of Obama by black voters was no different than their nearly unanimous support of Kerry, Gore or any other Democrat ever since Republicans started basing their election strategy around .
    I was going to mention that. Most black voters voted for Obama they would have if it was a white candidate. However the sad situation is that many white Democrats went to McCain strictly based on race. I've known hardcore Democrats who voted for McCain strictly because Obama was black. I won't get started on Sarah Palin and her appeal to racists (and her many alleged racist comments).

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    People (racists and sem-racists) forget that Obama is HALF white. He is not a ghetto-ite, is sincere, is a good family man, and is intelligent and articulate. If you don't like him, do it because of his politics.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer View Post
    People (racists and sem-racists) forget that Obama is HALF white. He is not a ghetto-ite, is sincere, is a good family man, and is intelligent and articulate. If you don't like him, do it because of his politics.
    Yes. I have some issues with him but it's not because of race. Rather that I voted for him because we needed a change and he's disappointed me. To be fair after 8 years of Bush my standards were very low.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    Yes. I have some issues with him but it's not because of race. Rather that I voted for him because we needed a change and he's disappointed me. To be fair after 8 years of Bush my standards were very low.
    Just curious why you are disappointed. By my take he's accomplished the following (and with near complete Republican obstruction):


    1. The DOW is up 40% off lows soon after he came in.
    2. The TARP loans he gave the auto co's have been paid back with interest. The other loans they received are in preferred stock and they have paid $726 million in dividends on that already. Save tens of thousands of jobs in the process.
    3. He kept an economy on the verge of collapsing from collapsing.
    4. Banks and Financial institutions that received money are paying it back
    5. The 300,000 jobs per month that were being lost when he came in has been turned into a gain in private sector jobs for the last 9 months
    6. A firm plan to leave Iraq and only 2 combat casualties in the last 5 months.
    7. Finally fighting our real enemies in the Afghan border region where Bush was afraid to go.
    8. Passed Financial Reform bill to protect people from unfair policies from banks and credit card companies.
    9. Passed Health Care reform bill which is necessary to save the economy- 2/3's of bankruptcies are medically related.
    10. Has in a short reversed the fact that EVERY country in the world hates us. We no longer have stupid fights with our allies- "Freedom Fries" etc.
    11. Passed a $30 billion package to aid small business and create jobs
    12. Set up $20 billion escrow fund to make sure BP paid their obligations.
    13. Banks and private industries are flush with cash where many of them were about to go out of business when he came in.
    14. Initiated a huge public works program to fix our neglected roads and infrastructure- getting needed work done and producing jobs
    Last edited by jimboe7373; 11-20-2010 at 04:04 PM.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Quote Originally Posted by jimboe7373 View Post
    Just curious why you are disappointed. By my take following he's accomplished the following (and with near complete Republican obstruction):


    1. The DOW is up 40% off lows soon after he came in.
    2. The TARP loans he gave the auto co's have been paid back with interest. The other loans they received are in preferred stock and they have paid $726 million in dividends on that already. Save tens of thousands of jobs in the process.
    3. He kept an economy on the verge of collapsing from collapsing.
    4. Banks and Financial institutions that received money are paying it back
    5. The 300,000 jobs per month that were being lost when he came in has been turned into a gain in private sector jobs for the last 9 months
    6. A firm plan to leave Iraq and only 2 combat casualties in the last 5 months.
    7. Finally fighting our real enemies in the Afghan border region where Bush was afraid to go.
    8. Passed Financial Reform bill to protect people from unfair policies from banks and credit card companies.
    9. Passed Health Care reform bill which is necessary to save the economy- 2/3's of bankruptcies are medically related.
    10. Has in a short reversed the fact that EVERY country in the world hates us. We no longer have stupid fights with our allies- "Freedom Fries" etc.
    11. Passed a $30 billion package to aid small business and create jobs
    12. Set up $20 billion escrow fund to make sure BP paid their obligations.
    13. Banks and private industries are flush with cash where many of them were about to go out of business when he came in.
    14. Initiated a huge public works program to fix our neglected roads and infrastructure- getting needed work done and producing jobs
    I just feel he hasn't done enough with the job situation, though to be fair he's tried to pass anti outsourcing bills. These failed courtesy of the Republicans and the "Dems" like Liberman (who isn't a Dem now and never was). Also he and the Dems compromised on the healthcare bill, which is a fiasco.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    I just feel he hasn't done enough with the job situation, though to be fair he's tried to pass anti outsourcing bills. These failed courtesy of the Republicans and the "Dems" like Liberman (who isn't a Dem now and never was)..
    Yes, employment is a horrible problem, but nothing can be fixed overnight- we were losing an average of 300,000 jobs per month when Obama took office, we are now net gain each month for the last nine months for private industry jobs. In addition, private industry is now hoarding almost $1 trillion and isn't hiring or spending which would help the economy tremendously. He did his job in stabilizing things enough and creating the environment where they could aqcuire the money, it's on them to spend and hire.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101027/...es_cash_moodys

    Also he and the Dems compromised on the healthcare bill, which is a fiasco.
    Agree with you 100% here. I think the problem is he gives the American public too much credit and tries to treat them like intelligent, rational adults. He also tries to play pretty fair and high-minded with the Republicans, many of whom pretty much scoff at that and use it as a tool against him.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Quote Originally Posted by jimboe7373 View Post
    Yes, employment is a horrible problem, but nothing can be fixed overnight- we were losing an average of 300,000 jobs per month when Obama took office, we are now net gain each month for the last nine months for private industry jobs. In addition, private industry is now hoarding almost $1 trillion and isn't hiring or spending which would help the economy tremendously. He did his job in stabilizing things enough and creating the environment where they could aqcuire the money, it's on them to spend and hire.


    Agree with you 100% here. I think the problem is he gives the American public too much credit and tries to treat them like intelligent, rational adults. He also tries to play pretty fair and high-minded with the Republicans, many of whom pretty much scoff at that and use it as a tool against him.
    I do think it will take Obama's first term (asuming he gets re elected) to fix the economy like it did FDR's. People often forget (I include myself) that when FDR got elected the country was in shambles. It took him his entire first term to fix it up. It still wasn't completely fixed until WW2. However, FDR didn't have the whole outsourcing issues we have now. If we brought back at least half of the jobs we'd have a better economy. The problem though is many layers and I'm not sure this can happen. The Republicans don't care these jobs are gone, and neither are many Dems. Contrary to what they might say, not all of these are entry level jobs. Many are jobs like accounting and even medical jobs, supposedly a "safe" field. Add in H1-B Visas and getting a professional job now is like playing the lottery. Meanwhile people go in debt due to student loans (this is another thing needed to be fixed).

    The current healthcare bill will not help anyone except perhaps the really poor. It still won't help people who don't qualify for Medicaid.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    The healthcare bill is now helping children with pre-existing conditions and their families, many of whom would go bankrupt and then have to get on welfare. This should be a net gain. There are many other provisions that still exist in the bill and are being implemented more gradually. Conservative Dems and almost all Republicans assured all the comproises in the final bill that will benefit only insurance companies and their stockholders. If Obama's team did not compromise in that way, we would have gotten nothing. At least we have a start that benefits some people.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    The current healthcare bill will not help anyone except perhaps the really poor. It still won't help people who don't qualify for Medicaid.
    This is a huge misconception. Never mind people's health at all for the moment- the healthcare bill is necessary to save the economy.

    2/3's of bankruptcies are medically related. These are people who've worked their whole lives, paid their taxes and even paid high prices for quality healthcare. If they happen to get a serious illness, they are dropped from their current plan and refused by other companies to be picked up- Bam!, bankrupt!. They will likely lose their house and now all the people that were making money off that house will lose that part of their income. They will no longer, pay property tax, hire an; electrician, plumber, pool guy, landscaper, exterminator, repair person, painter, home improvement company, they will cancel; electric, cable, alarm monitoring, phone service, homeowners insurance and many other items. That is a huge drain on the economy and it happens millions of times a year. A big reason of passing the Health Care bill was to combat this dynamic.

    It's also not true that only the poor would benefit. The current trend is untenable and as prices for healthcare grow exponentionally, more and more healthy people are dropping coverage as it's too expensive. As a result there are fewer people paying in and the proportion of claims goes way up because the people who need it have remained but many who were healthy have dropped out. This means that there is less money available to pay for the amount of claims so they have to raise prices higher- this in turns leads more healthy (and sometimes unhealthy) people to drop out because it's too expensive. It's a viscious cycle and left unregulated will implode. As a side-note, when people drop or never get health insurance, they don't stop receiving health care, they just stop paying a monthy invoice for it. They will use the emergency room and many times not be able to pay the bill. As a result the average person who is paying for health insurance has $1,500 per year added to their bill to cover the uninsured.

    It totally helps people besides those that don't qualify for medicare. It helps them in that they can't be dropped for putting in a claim, it helps them in that they can't be refused for having a previous illness, it helps them in that it removes the ceiling on treatment prices. This is all after it was watered-down by the Republicans, prior to that it also afforded people some protection from overprices pharmacuticals and had a public option that would have gauranteed competition and help to keep the rates more competitive.

    EVERYONE is also suffering because there is a lack of competition and collusion amongst the health care providers. They are able to raise their rates while cutting service and what's covered. They are the only game in town and prior to Obama they were able to do whatever they wanted unfettered. Health insurance rates are up 400% in some areas over the last 7 years. What I'm curious about is what were the rises in their costs that should be used as a reason to warrant that kind of increase.

    I think healthcare costs were a big part of the near economic collapse we suffered. For the poor and middle class there is only so many pieces of the pie. If one part of the pie goes from $175 a mo. to $575 per mo. (as my health ins. did) that's a lot less money that they can now spend on; movies, eating out, vacations, hiring a landscaper and thousands of other things. Multiply that by a couple hundred million and it's a pretty serious issue.

    Lastly, when people have healthcare they are able to spot illness early and treat it cheaply. When people don't have healthcare or have bad healthcare (ie. very high deductibles) they usually wait until they have something serious before seeking treatment and then it's much more expensive to treat.
    Last edited by jimboe7373; 11-20-2010 at 05:18 PM.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    I don't disagree that we need healthcare reform, we do. I just don't think this will help all of those it could. I've looked at it and in my case it will not help me. Instead I'll have to pay for healthcare, money I can't afford. Maybe in a few years this won't be the problem with me but no idea. I'm glad it will help some, but will not help everyone who needs medical. That's my problem.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Yeah but the only two options were "help some" or "help no one".

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    I don't disagree that we need healthcare reform, we do. I just don't think this will help all of those it could. I've looked at it and in my case it will not help me. Instead I'll have to pay for healthcare, money I can't afford. Maybe in a few years this won't be the problem with me but no idea. I'm glad it will help some, but will not help everyone who needs medical. That's my problem.
    If the public option was made available and you were able to get a high deductable policy for like $60 or so a month, that would have helped you, no?. That way you'd have coverage, you'd get your check-ups, prevent bigger stuff from developing and if something serious happened you'd get treated and then either borrow from friends or family for the deductible or pay it off over time with interest.

    I didn't have insurance for a long time and know how scary it is, hopefully something becomes available for you soon.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Quote Originally Posted by jimboe7373 View Post
    If the public option was made available and you were able to get a high deductable policy for like $60 or so a month, that would have helped you, no?. That way you'd have coverage, you'd get your check-ups, prevent bigger stuff from developing and if something serious happened you'd get treated and then either borrow from friends or family for the deductible or pay it off over time with interest.

    I didn't have insurance for a long time and know how scary it is, hopefully something becomes available for you soon.
    Yes I could afford that. It's just that I need medical assistance (a few non life threatening issues) and can't afford anything. Eventually I'm sure things will get better for me but there are others like me or worse. Like my aunt who couldn't afford healthcare until her cancer spread and she's no longer with us.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    Quote Originally Posted by Christany View Post
    This is likely why we won't see protests of the people such as existed in the 1960's and prior. In 1969, only 80-some million American people were serviced with fluoridated water compared to the 180 million + of today (last data I'm currently aware of being available since 2006).
    That's a very interesting theory, I certainly wouldn't put it past government. I honestly don't know if it would be such a huge factor even if it was true. Myself and most people I know drink strictly bottled water, and we're all reasonable calm LOL.

    I think besides the reason given in my previous post, there is a cultural element as well. Kind of a national ethos on what's acceptable and what's not for various situations. I think the U.S. as a nation is more concerned than most about the rule of law, so that when there is a problem or conflict that we want to "protest" most often we'll go and get our permits, show up at the appointed place and carry our signs and then go home.

    We also have a much less stratified society in terms of class conflict (that's starting to change though), I think that when there is big seperation between the classes and how they are treated, that can lead to a lot of hostility and violent confrontations and riots etc.

    Lastly, I think people in the U.S. are more focused on themselves than anyone else. We have stuff to occupy us every minute of everday and have made entertainment a central part of our lives and being, so that if there is going to be a march on a certain day and dancing with the stars is on- many of us will take a pass on the march.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: fuck election day

    forgive the factual 'corrections' ...

    1. The DOW is up 40% off lows soon after he came in.
    actually, businesses began making decisions the day after Obama was elected. From that day, the Dow has indeed increased from 8500 to 11000+. However, this is measured in dollars.

    2. The TARP loans he gave the auto co's have been paid back with interest. The other loans they received are in preferred stock and they have paid $726 million in dividends on that already. Save tens of thousands of jobs in the process.
    Technically true if you don't count GM / Citi paying back old tarp loans with new money loaned by the govt' instead of 'their own' money, nor count the fact that the $44 shares of GM held by the gov't are now worth $34 ! As to job 'savings, those numbers are so 'cooked' as to be ridiculous.
    '

    3. He kept an economy on the verge of collapsing from collapsing.
    And the Wall St banks thanked him accordingly !

    4. Banks and Financial institutions that received money are paying it back
    ^^^ with the primary motivator being CEO salary caps

    5. The 300,000 jobs per month that were being lost when he came in has been turned into a gain in private sector jobs for the last 9 months
    technically true if you count the loss of a high paying manufacturing job and the addition of a fast food job as being equal

    6. A firm plan to leave Iraq and only 2 combat casualties in the last 5 months.
    Will you count Israeli 'casualties' caused by this policy ?

    [quote]7. Finally fighting our real enemies in the Afghan border region where Bush was afraid to go.[/quote

    At last we agree ... although many of Obama's leftist supporters don't like the extension / escalation

    8. Passed Financial Reform bill to protect people from unfair policies from banks and credit card companies.
    and as a result people have a tougher time getting credit approvals at all, and are charged higher interest rates when they ARE approved

    9. Passed Health Care reform bill which is necessary to save the economy- 2/3's of bankruptcies are medically related.
    so we're trading personal bankruptcies for small business bankruptcies

    10. Has in a short reversed the fact that EVERY country in the world hates us. We no longer have stupid fights with our allies- "Freedom Fries" etc.
    and Chinese subs are now firing missiles over the US west coast

    11. Passed a $30 billion package to aid small business and create jobs
    small businesses are avoiding this package like the plague

    12. Set up $20 billion escrow fund to make sure BP paid their obligations.
    and absolved them of much liability in the process

    13. Banks and private industries are flush with cash where many of them were about to go out of business when he came in.
    they're flush with cash because they refuse to hire / expand with absolutely no certainty re future taxes and regulatory compliance costs

    14. Initiated a huge public works program to fix our neglected roads and infrastructure- getting needed work done and producing jobs
    actually it was a stealth bailout of mostly 'blue' state gov't workers / teachers / contractors etc.

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    There's no pleasing some people...

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    Default Re: fuck election day

    forgive the factual 'corrections' ...
    There wasn't too much "fact" in any of your corrections.

    actually, businesses began making decisions the day after Obama was elected. From that day, the Dow has indeed increased from 8500 to 11000+. However, this is measured in dollars.

    Well, how did it get from 14,000 to 8500 then? In any case- it was a low of 6500 in March of 2009 and is now over 11,000 so it's up 40% as originally stated.

    Technically true if you don't count GM / Citi paying back old tarp loans with new money loaned by the govt' instead of 'their own' money, nor count the fact that the $44 shares of GM held by the gov't are now worth $34 ! As to job 'savings, those numbers are so 'cooked' as to be ridiculous.

    I do count it as being paid back, they could have chosen not to pay it back, they could have gone out of business and been unable to pay it back. They paid it back with interest 2 years in advance and have been profitable on their own for the last several quarters. In addition they paid back almost half of the other loan with the IPO.

    And the Wall St banks thanked him accordingly !

    What does that have to do with anything?. A strong DOW is good for almost everyone.

    ^^^ with the primary motivator being CEO salary caps

    Yes, that was a brilliant policy to ensure the money was paid back and quickly. Bush's bailouts had no accountability and as a result the money just disappeared.

    technically true if you count the loss of a high paying manufacturing job and the addition of a fast food job as being equal

    When you are in the midst of the 2nd worst economy in the history of the nation ANY job is a good thing. EVERY person who is working, paying payroll taxes and NOT on unemployment is a plus. There were and continue to be many thousands of high paying green tech jobs as well, as we discussed in a previous thread.

    Will you count Israeli 'casualties' caused by this policy ?

    I was under the impression Obama was the president of the United States, so I won't be counting Israeli casualties. In any case, how many Israeli casualties did Iraq cause before the U.S. military occupied Iraq?


    and as a result people have a tougher time getting credit approvals at all, and are charged higher interest rates when they ARE approved

    There are many people who should have a harder time getting approvals, this will cut down on defaults. People with good credit will still get approved and will recieve a low rate- this could serve as an incentive for people to get their financial affairs in order.

    In addition, you well know that the reason for the reform was to protect people by capping fees and monitoring deceptive practices employed by credit card co's and banks to take advantage of consumers. It also seeks to regulate the derivative and other risky types of moves financial companies make that caused a lot of the mess we're in.

    so we're trading personal bankruptcies for small business bankruptcies

    Absolutely not!. According to the plan:
    * Mandatory exchanges would be set up where small businesses could pool together for savings.
    *These exchanges would also include a 35% tax credit for ins. costs
    * Only businesses with more than 50 employees would be required to offer health insurance.

    In addition: If the original plan were implemented (before trying to appease Republicans) and the public option was included, there would have been sufficient competition and that added to all the new people that would be now coming in and making payments, prices would be fair and affordable for most everyone.

    With the much lower prices and the tens of thousands of people not going through medical bankcruptcy, there would be a lot more discretionary money to spend and small business and the economy would both benefit.

    and Chinese subs are now firing missiles over the US west coast

    This is just silly. There is no proof that it was a Chinese missile and they are the least likely of anyone to have fired it. If it was a foriegn power, it would likely be North Korea- but the likliest explanation of all is that it was an accidental launch from the U.S. military that it did not want to admit to.

    small businesses are avoiding this package like the plague

    There are many companies that are using funds from the program, and the point is that he put together and passed it to benefit them and to create jobs.

    and absolved them of much liability in the process

    Absolutely not true!

    "The fund does not represent a cap on BP liabilities, but will be available to satisfy legitimate claims."
    http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?...tentId=7062966

    they're flush with cash because they refuse to hire / expand with absolutely no certainty re future taxes and regulatory compliance costs

    They are flush with cash because Obama provided a stable enough environment where people started spending money, the economy turned 300,000 jobs losses per mo. into net private industry jobs gains for the last 9 months and other factors that resulted from deft handling of the crises.

    When he came into office, the banks were close to closing their doors, most companies had extremely small cash reserves and profits and hiring were very far away from reality for pretty much every company.

    We've had a huge turn-around. He did his job in creating the environment where they were able to get their hands on the $trillion- it's on them to start spending. They can do what they want, it's their money- but if they're not going to spend to create jobs- then get off Obama's jock about unemployment.


    actually it was a stealth bailout of mostly 'blue' state gov't workers / teachers / contractors etc.

    No, I'm talking about the $billions being spent on the bridge, road, tunnel and infrastructure projects in every town in the country that is finally overhauling our neglectic infrastucture, providing jobs and stimulating the economy.
    Last edited by jimboe7373; 11-21-2010 at 04:57 PM.

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