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Thread: Same sex parents

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61
    I feel like in 20 years or so, similar questions about gay people will be universally regarded as offensive and backwards-thinking. And it's so crazy that conservatives don't see that. Maybe they slept through those history lectures...
    Couldn't agree more. The gay rights movement is quickly gaining more momentum, it really is just a matter of time before same sex couples are granted the same rights so the sooner the better. Polls (in Australia at least) have shown that the majority of the population support same sex marriage yet still governments hold on to the archaic idea that homosexuals are somehow less than an average person. The same thinking which led to the enslavement of African people and the reason women were with held the right to vote until the last century - both of which are looked back upon with embarrassment and shame.

    The whole conservative religious debate of "it says in the bible that only straight couples can marry" is what seems to hold a lot of weight with the anti equal rights people. Isn't there a law that demands the separation of church and state? Also do they not realise that the only reason the bible says such things is because it was written two thousand years ago in a time where infant mortality was high, life span was short and the most effective way to control people was through fear?

    Sorry, ranting again. I just get really pissed off that this is still an issue.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    What I learned about being a man with a woman, I learned from watching my dad
    If more men were like you, society would be a lot better off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amareth View Post
    Sorry, ranting again. I just get really pissed off that this is still an issue.
    It's understandable, I feel the same way when dogma overrides progress.
    Quote Originally Posted by markx View Post
    I'd have to have a "4 simease twin strippers gave me head and then lite themselves on fire" story to blow anybody's mind here.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Very interesting that most of those raised with two heterosexual parents were parents not still together. Sometimes I feel like I am the only person with two parents still married after 42 and they actually like each other!

    I learned to fish from my mom because her family is big on fishing. I learned to fight from my dad (he taught me to defend myself from a neighborhood bully when I was 11). While to some extent they taught me gender roles, for the most part they didn't care that I was never a girly girl. My mother, though she likes things like quilting, is not into "traditional" things. When she gets an invitation to a bridal or baby shower it goes in the garbage (though she'll send gifts). She isn't into shoes or clothes either. I am the same way. The one girly hobby I have is collecting dolls but outside of that I am not very feminine. I could never be happy being forced into a gender role, like being a housewife (no offense to housewives).

    Quote Originally Posted by Christany View Post
    But the matriarchy can work, what needs to change is society's attitude and acceptance.
    I kind of get where you are going, but I think a pure matriarchy is a bad idea. While I have no problems with a child raised by two women, I have a strong issue with children being raised by single women. Now I'm not talking career women who are getting close to the end of their childbearing and deciding to have a child. I know several women like this. I am talking about those women who decide that a dad just isn't important, or decide to have a baby courtesy of tax dollars. I've known women who wanted a baby so they went out and got pregnant without telling the dad (they didn't want him part of the family). I've known women who got pregnant by a guy they knew wouldn't stick around but wanted the welfare. Many more cases like these and these incidents are to me more dangerous than gay parenting. I know I am old fashioned but I want to be married to the father if I become pregnant, or in a situation where I know he will do the right thing.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    ^^
    True. I wonder if there's a good medium that can be borrowed from that. We've seen in the past how intense patriarchies don't work, so to run to the polar opposite wouldn't be healthy either. I would really love to see our society become more community oriented again and become more involved with their peers. It seems that people are so much more isolated, but yet, simultaneously so time-consumed that it's hard to juggle what they have on their own plates, and trying to raise children as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by markx View Post
    I'd have to have a "4 simease twin strippers gave me head and then lite themselves on fire" story to blow anybody's mind here.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    I would like to see a return of something like that, but unfortunately in the capitalistic world we'll never see it. Instead we see parents (and everyone else) working way too many hours while everything else suffers.
    This is why I personally seek out somewhat feminine men who aren't career obsessed and are interested in being a hands on dad, along with working, while I do the same things.
    Last edited by Kellydancer; 12-14-2010 at 11:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    I feel like in 20 years or so, similar questions about gay people will be universally regarded as offensive and backwards-thinking...

    lets hope so.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by Christany View Post
    ^^
    True. I wonder if there's a good medium that can be borrowed from that. We've seen in the past how intense patriarchies don't work, so to run to the polar opposite wouldn't be healthy either. I would really love to see our society become more community oriented again and become more involved with their peers. It seems that people are so much more isolated, but yet, simultaneously so time-consumed that it's hard to juggle what they have on their own plates, and trying to raise children as well.
    What you are looking for is the group called a Clan. An intermarried multi generational self supporting group. This has either Elder Matriarch, Elder Patriarch, and/or a Council of Elders.

    Kinda the norm outside of the modern world.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellydancer View Post
    Very interesting that most of those raised with two heterosexual parents were parents not still together.
    What else did I learn from my Dad? Infidelity is exhausting. One at a time for me please.

    Divorce has become to easy, getting married easier, and the pay outs to good.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    Is your comment supposed to make me feel silly for having such a pro-alternative movements opinion?

    The real world will only start looking more like 'campus life' (and by that I'm assuming you mean socially liberal?) if people like me speak the fuck up. And people like you, too. I see it as my responsibility, as a white woman who passes as heterosexual, to advocate for others. Is that too 'women's studies courses' of me? Or is that just plain socially responsible?
    Its like buzz word bingo! Is it term paper time? Feel free to rant. I welcome it.

    I am unaccepting of ideals and truths put forth by professors. You know what they say about careers right? Those that can do, those that can't teach.

    The theories and ideals put forth in Classes don't survive first contact with real people and real culture. Some could work in the Old countries with homogeneous ethnicities and practices. This is America. A tumultuous, riotous, stubborn, free willed, independents; atleast at one time. We can't even agree on what's for lunch.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
    Its like buzz word bingo! Is it term paper time? Feel free to rant. I welcome it.

    I am unaccepting of ideals and truths put forth by professors. You know what they say about careers right? Those that can do, those that can't teach.

    The theories and ideals put forth in Classes don't survive first contact with real people and real culture. Some could work in the Old countries with homogeneous ethnicities and practices. This is America. A tumultuous, riotous, stubborn, free willed, independents; atleast at one time. We can't even agree on what's for lunch.
    I guess I don't understand why you seem to think that I've gotten these ideas from Classes. And seriously, if you're trying to justify discrimination by claiming it's the American way, then...well...Wow.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    I guess I don't understand why you seem to think that I've gotten these ideas from Classes. And seriously, if you're trying to justify discrimination by claiming it's the American way, then...well...Wow.
    (because you are rightfully proud to be a college student.........

    What I am saying is that these Ideas you have gotten from your Classes are the idealized stylized version. The crystalline perfect; if everyone felt the same way. Real life is not like that.

    Casual Observer likes to quote William F. Buckley about this.

    I wouldn't let religious sects adopt either. No way would I want a young girl adopted into the FLDS to be married at 13 or something; just because the Parents would be Heterosexual.

    I am willing to support Gay marriage, and I will support Gay employment. Pay taxes the same as me.

    I don't support Gay child adoption and I don't support Gays in the Military. Neither sets well with me.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
    (because you are rightfully proud to be a college student.........

    What I am saying is that these Ideas you have gotten from your Classes are the idealized stylized version. The crystalline perfect; if everyone felt the same way. Real life is not like that.

    Casual Observer likes to quote William F. Buckley about this.

    I wouldn't let religious sects adopt either. No way would I want a young girl adopted into the FLDS to be married at 13 or something; just because the Parents would be Heterosexual.

    I am willing to support Gay marriage, and I will support Gay employment. Pay taxes the same as me.

    I don't support Gay child adoption and I don't support Gays in the Military. Neither sets well with me.
    Are you saying there's something wrong with striving towards an ideal? Are you the person who would've said, "Black people will never be freed from slavery, it's just not how the real world works!!" That may seem extreme, but it's such an antiquated point of view.

    I think what you're trying to do is defend a socially conservative belief you have using logic. It really, really isn't working. I'd respect your opinion more if you would just openly label it as such.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    Are you saying there's something wrong with striving towards an ideal? Are you the person who would've said, "Black people will never be freed from slavery, it's just not how the real world works!!" That may seem extreme, but it's such an antiquated point of view.

    I think what you're trying to do is defend a socially conservative belief you have using logic. It really, really isn't working. I'd respect your opinion more if you would just openly label it as such.
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
    I don't support Gay child adoption and I don't support Gays in the Military. Neither sets well with me.
    If that's not an opinion I don't know what is.........

    Striving towards Ideals means you are against another Ideal, always in contention.

    Ultimate Liberty is anarchy, ultimate security is fascism. At the end you have to ask yourself was the victory worth the fight?

    Someone brought up the 50's. well before my time. We have gone through a huge number of Social changes since then.

    In the 50's We were the sole superpower. Sole possessor of the atomic bomb (briefly), a manufacturing powerhouse, a worldwide exporter of the highest quality foods and goods. many nations looked to us for loans and aid. So much progress in a short time.

    Today?

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    ^^
    I can see what you're saying in some ways. I think moderation and a system of checks and balances is key for any movement. But what are we going to do with all those kids sitting in foster homes? I believe that the state actually pays foster parents to take in kids (which is digging into our tax dollars btw), but the number of kids vastly outweighs the spots available.

    Put it this way, if you were to take 2 kids (one raised in a lesbian/gay household; the other shuffled around, displaced, and lost in the foster care system) and ask me which would more likely to be involved in street gangs and would rob me at gunpoint at the 7-11 sixteen years later, I'd say the latter.

    Wouldn't it be more beneficial to society to provide more long-term stable arrangements?
    Quote Originally Posted by markx View Post
    I'd have to have a "4 simease twin strippers gave me head and then lite themselves on fire" story to blow anybody's mind here.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
    If that's not an opinion I don't know what is.........
    Fair 'nuff.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by Christany View Post
    ^^
    I can see what you're saying in some ways. I think moderation and a system of checks and balances is key for any movement. But what are we going to do with all those kids sitting in foster homes? I believe that the state actually pays foster parents to take in kids (which is digging into our tax dollars btw), but the number of kids vastly outweighs the spots available.

    Put it this way, if you were to take 2 kids (one raised in a lesbian/gay household; the other shuffled around, displaced, and lost in the foster care system) and ask me which would more likely to be involved in street gangs and would rob me at gunpoint at the 7-11 sixteen years later, I'd say the latter.

    Wouldn't it be more beneficial to society to provide more long-term stable arrangements?
    Right now the Social Welfare programs skew the benefits toward single parents. Why not incentivize marriage. I know we all want to help single Moms. Right now the benefits are better for a single mom than for a couple. Our system right now rewards poor choices, risk behaviors, creates dead beat dads, and locks kids into poor begets poor models.

    I have other radical ideas but, they thread drift.

    Creche group families. Euthanasia for the severely disabled. Monetary rewards for tubual ligation.

    Fostering is hard work, those kids are very troubled. Mental health problems for a start.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Colleges were mentioned and that reminded me of my college experience. I attended an extremely liberal art college and it made me see that far lefties are just as dangerous as fundies. They want to push their views. I actually became more conservative because of it. They were judgemental towards anyone not far left. They had a socialist club but when a guy wanted to start a Republican club he was told he can't be judgemental. We even had to pay more in student fees towards gay clubs (they had a separate fee) and that I found was wrong.



    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
    Right now the Social Welfare programs skew the benefits toward single parents. Why not incentivize marriage. I know we all want to help single Moms. Right now the benefits are better for a single mom than for a couple. Our system right now rewards poor choices, risk behaviors, creates dead beat dads, and locks kids into poor begets poor models.

    I have other radical ideas but, they thread drift.

    Creche group families. Euthanasia for the severely disabled. Monetary rewards for tubual ligation.

    Fostering is hard work, those kids are very troubled. Mental health problems for a start.
    I often get flack for this, but I am so tired of supporting families like these. There are many couples not getting married so that mom gets welfare. Of course there are also the situations where dad just leaves anyway. When we have programs that penalize married people but reward single parents we are saying "have as many kids out of wedlock as possible". Yet when people are against having kids out of marriage we are called Christian fundies.

    Back to the topic, I have no problem with gay people adopting because there are many kids who need homes. I admit I have mixed feelings on Don't Ask Don't Tell. I think gay people should be allowed to serve (and they always have been) I just don't want to see PDA, and I don't want to see it with straight couples either.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    -----
    Last edited by Athenathefabulous; 02-25-2011 at 05:02 AM.
    The best thing i have heard in a strip club to date:
    customer: we should get married right now! we should get a shotgun marriage!
    me: uhh... i think you are misunderstanding what a shotgun marriage means. A shotgun marriage means you knock me up and my daddy shows up at your door with a gun and forces you to marry me and raise the baby. You mean elope.
    customer: hmm... nah actually i will take the shotgun marriage. At least then we would be having sex.


  21. #44
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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
    Right now the Social Welfare programs skew the benefits toward single parents. Why not incentivize marriage. I know we all want to help single Moms. Right now the benefits are better for a single mom than for a couple. Our system right now rewards poor choices, risk behaviors, creates dead beat dads, and locks kids into poor begets poor models.

    I have other radical ideas but, they thread drift.

    Creche group families. Euthanasia for the severely disabled. Monetary rewards for tubual ligation.

    Fostering is hard work, those kids are very troubled. Mental health problems for a start.
    I love radical ideas. I think you and me would make an awesome libertarian love affair if we picked each other's brains for a while.
    Last edited by Christany; 12-15-2010 at 10:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by markx View Post
    I'd have to have a "4 simease twin strippers gave me head and then lite themselves on fire" story to blow anybody's mind here.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
    Step away from the womens studies courses.
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
    I am unaccepting of ideals and truths put forth by professors. You know what they say about careers right? Those that can do, those that can't teach.

    The theories and ideals put forth in Classes don't survive first contact with real people and real culture. Some could work in the Old countries with homogeneous ethnicities and practices. This is America. A tumultuous, riotous, stubborn, free willed, independents; atleast at one time. We can't even agree on what's for lunch.
    Wow.

    As both a female and a student studying to be a History teacher, I find everything you've said here to be extremely sexist and ignorant. And way out of left field. Where do you get the idea that going to college will make people unrealistic? How did this semi-conspiracy theory even get brought up?

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by firemaiden04 View Post
    Wow.

    As both a female and a student studying to be a History teacher, I find everything you've said here to be extremely sexist and ignorant. And way out of left field. Where do you get the idea that going to college will make people unrealistic? How did this semi-conspiracy theory even get brought up?
    Yeah, I was admittedly taken aback by the women's studies / college bashing.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    I went to school and played volleyball with a girl who lived with her mom and mom's "roommate". I didn't get it until someone quietly told me, I really thought they were just roommates and best friends, because the mom's friend was at every volleyball game with her.

    So, everyone else knew, and no one teased her or made fun of her. She was a very sweet girl. Was she normal? Well, she did get knocked up and had a baby at 16 with her long time boyfriend, who was also a nice guy. But that can happen....

    Young gay boys I grew up with didn't fare as well, sadly. My good friend was picked on mercilessly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie61 View Post
    Yeah, I was admittedly taken aback by the women's studies / college bashing.
    I work in a facility that does R&D in electronics. Filled with PHDs.

    Lately I am fed up with them. Stupidest bunch of educated people ever.

    I am now convinced one can be educated beyond their capacity.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    So many m/f parents are absolutely shit... I really don't see how same gender parents could possibly be any worse for a child.
    Quote Originally Posted by camille27 View Post
    i am losing my fucking mind and i really just want this chloroform dream because i think that would just get me right with jesus.

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    Default Re: Same sex parents

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post

    However, I personally feel a heterosexual couple is what is best for any child.
    And why was that? Because your mom taught you how to sew and cook and your dad taught you how to hunt and fish?

    Maybe you need to take your own advice and take a look at the world. When people say things like this, as if it's the universal experience (women sew and men fish!) it makes me wonder if they were just transported from 1954.

    You don't think children can get "two different perspectives" from two different gay parents?

    Besides, gay people do not raise their children in a vacuum. Having two dads doesn't mean the child can't have female role models actively involved in their life via other relatives, family friends, god parents, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    As Katherine Hepburn put it so eloquently " Nature is what we were put here to rise above"

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