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Thread: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

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    Default Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    So, I have been truly trying to wrap my head around getting this started, and getting the discussion rolling, and i really can't see every little aspect being discussed or worked out here, especially without anyone to do "stickies" where needed.

    Overall though I think it could be done and a Camgirl Owned camsite is VERY VERY do-able.

    So I created a full board to discuss it and flesh it out. It has NO OTHER PURPOSE but to discuss a camgirl owned camsite, and fully plan it and make it happen.

    You ALL talk a LOT about this in the past or say things could be better if it exists, so now here's your chance to make it exist!

    B

    PS. Feel free to discuss here as well, but please let me know if it is OK for me to add anything written here to the discussion over there as well. I think we need an archived place where all of this can truly be hashed out.

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    I also want to begin working on the section for a Camgirl's Co-op/Union today, so I hope you guys are thinking about all the stuff you want to say.

    B

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Hi B, any updates on the camsite?

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessJenny View Post
    Hi B, any updates on the camsite?
    Well, the site has somewhat changed direction, so it is not just a simple Indy site, but has more to it, including some VERY new tech and ideas.

    In updating all of this, we lost our main programmer and one investor, so I now need to raise capital, and I have found a programmer, and this can happen within 2-3 weeks from the time I am able to say "GO!" to the programmer.

    B

    ps. so, this moment, it is stalled, but we're pretty darn close as some users who saw a brief preview can attest.

    pps. Come to chat this weekend and discuss with us!

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Glad to hear its still coming along. Iv logged in a few times when I can but I think the time difference means im on when everyone's sleeping

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    We're 31 minutes from chat time. And thank heavens...I can use a break...

    B

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    We're 31 minutes from chat time. And thank heavens...I can use a break...

    B
    1:30am here and im going through the payments at the moment so I may pop in for abit after my shifts over

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Not able to log-in, Bambalina! Reset password and it's not working......Catch you next time!
    The Official Sandra London Website and Blog

    My Live and Grind Emporium:


    Listen to Playtime with Sandra Radio.


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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Disclaimer: I am a male cam "boss", site is chatGF. I replied to bambalina posts before, I am a regular intruder.

    To bambalina: sorry to hear you lost investor, programmer si delayed with your union cam girls site (socialism? idealism?). I see in the new forum already some girl want one thing and some another (have camscore or not, allow nude in free chat or no etc.), that's why unify is not easy, like peace in world is not easy, but support and praise is for who try, good luck.

    There's several posts recently all around the same topic of how a cam site should be or not should be, along with comments on how some existing site sucks for a reason or another. Same things was in previous posts back in months and years, to some I contributed. And even essays from camgirlnotes, which is definitely politics up to conspiration theory - still useful and lots good faith in it.

    Now, do all the cam girls really think that all the cam site owners are simply greedy guys who disrespect woman and don't care they do any reasonable money from cam work? Let's make this topic more wide, do all the workers/partners really think that all their bosses are simply greedy guys etc. etc.? Well, put so widely, you may answer "some owner is greedy, some is fair, some is helping workers so much that he go bankrupt and fails". So like you can't say all blonde's are stupid, you can't say all cam sites are bad pimps, you should check case by case, and some details are not available to the public (such as the real income and expenses out of the operations - except streamray/cams.com which filed own financials in SEC time ago to try go in stock IPO).

    Actually the girls asks for 65% min 80% preferably plus lots of traffic. This does not compute very well (believe me or not, even if the cam site boss decide he/she will keep 0% so make no money), I discussed why in older posts. Recent posts in the skinvideo thread say "I give up despite pays 80% because not enough income, guys not chat etc.". Now, you have someone who made a site paying the 80%, and you not support it because no traffic. Then another thread blame streamate for paying 35% (30% really to east europeans), but after all traffic is big so there you stick working.

    As what it matters, is "to make $60+ per hour", as someone posted. Eeven if that's 10% of $600 , that's better then 80% of $10, that's $60 vs $8 that you get for one hour online. The matter of principle vs the money to pay bills in time.

    Now, despite skinvideo is my competitor (and I not know their owners), I like them for implementing the 80% pay (at chatgf I had courage to go up to 60% "only"), and girls who say "I quit that site" should remember not to post into "x site pay only 35%" threads too

    Now if a cam site run by union is made who pay 80%+, will it be supported more then a skinvideo which is there already and pay 80% already? Just a question I make.

    Then it goes the camscore and nude in free thing. Let have a site which is perfect pay big % and, for some reason, gets lots traffic. What it would happen? Every cam girl in the world would be online there, plus some girls will decide be cam girls just because heard how good this new site it is.
    Then 1000+ online at any time, then the whole traffic of the world will be split in 1000+ and no more that big per girl. Then there will be a big fight for who is in first page, i.e. camscore wars, cheats and calling the site as unfair to those girls who are at bottom pages - or girls calling each other names because one show sex in free to be noticed.

    That's not critics. Is just a contribution, and I wish the best will happen to the sites who try to be fair and nice to everyone. Believe it or not it is useful for a cam site owner that the cam girls make lots $$ and so they keep in the site and look happy while in private. That's live and if the site sucks the models looks bored and the guys will be cheap accordingly. Sites who really do it bad, will not keep in business, altough who reach traffic critical mass, will have more freedom what to "impose" to girls eventually, but again I don't believe at the pure evil site owner theory as I know a few and most are normal guys, some even married with cam girl who sure would spank him at dinner if see he's so bad.

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Error: You're taking several women and grouping them together as one as well as taking things that don't even apply to you personally. If you run your site honorably, don't worry about it. But don't deny that some of the major site owners are sheisty and ignore the needs of the people bringing them profit.

    For the girls that quit high-percent sites because of this and that, oh well. For the girls who want to be catty and greedy, oh well on them too. They burn themselves out and for a smart business-minded woman, they're of no concern. The two models I know of that haven't regretted their switch from MFC to SV don't regret it why? They brought their own traffic. That would be step one for anyone starting out in this industry. Generate a fan base and use it. Anyone else who's not doing what they need to do to succeed, let them cry.

    I don't mean to be coarse, but every time someone gets a discussion started on these things, you come in with a dissenting view like what we're saying is wrong and fail to prove why you're right. For example on the traffic basis, how much does it cost to advertise a site? I'm willing to bet it's cheaper than what most want to let on, but then I'm only (barely) paying for traffic redirection for myself so I can't imagine what it costs for a web platform hosting 100+ models. It's just the "Well the girls who want high traffic don't want to settle for the shitty percent but if they get higher percent they get no traffic haha" attitude is grating. We're not behind the scenes like that so if any of you guys would like to break down how we're being silly, please do.

    Again, the opinion of a few people who want to flip-flop does not sum up the views of the collective. I'd be more than happy to settle for below 50% if a site owner could justify their cut. Traffic means nothing if it's the wrong kind (as evidenced by what LJ and Naked have become).

    At the end of the day, Bambalina asked and all we did was way in. Just spit-balling. Yeah, some of it isn't realistic, but there's no harm in putting it out there.

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    i would like a site that had crazy traffic but not hundreds of thousands of camgirls on it

    it would have to have enough models to draw in a big crowd, and to ensure that there were models on at all times, yet not so much competition, maybe 50 to 100 girls max?

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinnerette View Post
    The two models I know of that haven't regretted their switch from MFC to SV don't regret it why? They brought their own traffic. That would be step one for anyone starting out in this industry. Generate a fan base and use it.

    For example on the traffic basis, how much does it cost to advertise a site? I'm willing to bet it's cheaper than what most want to let on
    Well, for sure to steal customers got in a site to bring elsewhere to get more or all, is cheaper then advertize with banners. But that's ok, on my site most of the traffic is bring by the models as I pay 82% for who is registered via the model, most cam sites have this kind of offer (imlive, ifriends pay 100% if remember well), because guys are moved by the girls a lot (prihibited or not, this happens).
    The main issue we talk about it is: getting new guys from the web, not move them between sites via a model.

    About advertising costs, to put a banner spot in small tubes for 7 to 30 days is $3,000-$10,000, and usually only 1 every thousands of clicks with use a credit card in site, and in particular only one every 10,000's you get will spend a lot. Livejasmin buy spots they pay $10,000 to $50,000 a month to be, in the bigger tubes - all together it can reach the million dollars a month in advertising, if you do the math. This is why some sites give $100 up to $300 per customer you bring (per singup rather than % rev share)... seems big, but if you do the math, that's same cost as put expensive banners and see 1 every 10,000 to pay you. Models move guys between sites also to get this per signup, often more then what they get from his minutes (some guy pay $20 and site pay $300 for him, is a loss, but this is balanced by that few who will spend a lot later - of course for the model to move a small guy and get $300 is good deal).

    What I mean, if you fish guys as a model being online in a site, example fish 5 guys who then you move out of site, consider the site had spent $1000 or more to bring those 5 guys in the site in first place, esp. if some guy is big spending whale, this may look strange, but that's it. On plain web traffic, those good customers are 1 every 20,000 people, 19,999 being not useful but costing $$ to show banners to.

    There are of course many other considerations, such as when a site such as mfc is full of free sex shows, that attracks guys for free, it save on advertising (if compared to send guys to site with clothed previews), and this is one of the reasons mfc can pay 20% more then a jasmin streamate or streamray/cams.
    More on free nude: recently streamate is full of sex shows in free for tips (someone mentioned in forum too), and have you seen the new site stripshow.com from streamray/cams.com? A clone of mfc, sex in free.

    Other consideration: the billers cost 7%+ (even zombaio is no more 4.x% since december, they're 8% average now), then there's costs to pay models and alternative billers at 13% for strange cards, this means a 15% is lost in banks, this make 85% available, then if you pay 80% to models you can't advertize at all. I think 60% it's really to the limit for own traffic, and btw there's also taxes, sites if big can't be illegal really, must pay some tax somewhere

    Maybe there's some evil cam site owner, as there's some evil cam girl, each guy site and girl is different, I not accused or defense anyone. I write this generic info just to be useful to whoever want to open sites and I wish good luck. It seems to me no one really new site made by really new people was opened and kept big in past 3 years, all sites and owners of big sites are same of big sites from 2005 or before, even myself not new really just changed site names but was there in 2005. If that's true is so easy to make money off the cam girls should be full of new sites who became big, it seems not the case, and it is the sites who pay bigger % who fail quicker, so the bigger old sites don't need to raise % to girls, but believe me they pay affiliates and adverts a big % of what's left - and that's why lower the % fee paid, more they ban the girls caught exchanging emails and bringing guys off site (streamate banned a few my models who moved guys from stream to chatgf , so i have direct info).

    I wrote lots stuff, but for a cam girl what matters will be still mostly to make $60+ per hour whatever how and where - and to move (steal) best guys of 30% site into 80% pay schemas, in hope site not bust her. Also I see a post here about can site have only 50-100 girls and not 1000, then who decide if she's one of the included or excluded girls. We'll have the site of the 100 lucy models, and the excluded girls will do the site of excluded 900 ones? At chatgf I do a selection (like onhercam , by looks or style) and there's big drama why I skip this or that model, seems I am evil, so a site run by girls union can't exclude some girl for any reason, so there must be 1000 online if popular to models, so traffic must be big enough so 1000 times the traffci needed for 1 online model.

    Note that's nothing personal is just numbers. I not meant to say anyone is bad or good there, I not say anyone do error or is right, I put there numbers that are there same for all sites and everyone, then every single person can make the own considerations - and sites who handle those numbers in a way so more girls are happy (would mean tube sites and advertizing brokers are unhappy, as they're the middlemen bigger then the cam site owners, they not even run a cam site, just send links).

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Let me say here, I disagree with ChatGF in some very important ways..because I believe his paradigm is the old one, and there can be better ways to function, not yet thought of ways..

    HOWEVER, I very very very much appreciate his viewpoints, and I very much want to read what he has to say, because I believe that while he may be WRONG in some fundamental ways, he MEANS WELL and has more experience that ANY of us in "Owning a camsite"...So please, argue with him, disagree..I will...but appreciate that he is not trying to HURT us...he is writing to give perspective from his point of view...

    Please ladies, thank him and make him feel welcome before you tell him what a fucking idiot he is for his wrongheaded ideas...or whatever...

    B

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Thanks for the breakdown. It's nice to see some numbers from that side for once and while I still don't buy that a select few sites are budgeting that way (MFC, for example. They'd be able to handle all the freeloaders if they kept their servers managed properly. Just one of the top girls makes enough in a week to justify whatever they'd have to pay a month for additional staff/additional equipment, I think), I understand how the admin costs can add up fast. I could also say a lot what's going to eventually kill these mega sites is sinking a bunch of money into something that will only bring them so-so traffic. Again, I'm not on that side of the business so I have no idea, but if I were, I'd be trying to figure out a better way than spamming guys who are on tube sites specifically because they don't see the point of coming out of pocket to get off. :/ It LOOKS like it's working with SM, but then why are they suddenly becoming lax with their own guidelines? Is it because they're seeing a decline in profits and want a "new" hustle or because they're getting greedy? Either way, it's not a good look.

    I don't like the STEALING accusation though. The ladies both have twitter accounts so obviously their loyal fans were going to catch on to where they were sooner or later. I've even seen both of them make it a point not to mention the other network when they're online on the opposing one. *shrug* I mean, their regulars are there for THEM and not the site so I guess if MFC is hurting (I sincerely doubt it), it could be a lesson in treating your commodity like it's of value. I can't say this for all models because yeah, no matter what you do, some will just take and take and never give (that goes back to my not a smart business woman differential as any corporation that sees you as a liability will get rid of you). BUT for all the ones I've had the pleasure of being associated with, if a network treats them like a gem, they return the favor. The type of regulars these girls have are going to show up WHEREVER they go. I see the traffic leak paranoia junk popping up more and more lately. Makes sense for an indy or upstart site. Established mega networks? Nah. A ton of sites are cracking down on internal promotion now because they're scared of "traffic theft", but from my POV, if a girl feels she's reaping the benefits of your network's service and traffic, she's sending at least double back at you (yes, most likely from other networks even. The internet cam world is a relatively small place and most models retain the same handle on every site). A good example for a site that I believe is ahead in the game because of how heavily the models promote it externally is MGF. I believe they could be even further if they would stop being paranoid and possessive about things that don't really belong to them in the first place. But eh, rules are rules and it's working for them so who am I to knock it? I guess my point is that the same way some of us models take the fact that sometimes, our shows are leaked on tube sites in stride and chalk it up as part of the business, some of these networks need to take a chill pill and accept that "traffic leaks" are also a fact of life. The only time I think a network really needs to worry is if there is a sudden mass exodus, but I don't see that every happening (and if it did, it'd most likely be their fault).

    Thanks again for a peek at what goes into advertising.

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Oh no, I don't mean at all to chase ChatGF from the board. I'm just abit aggressive and curt in my approach because I keep seeing "Silly models, trix are for kids" everywhere, but no one wanted to say WHY. And I for one know that anything above 60% in some circles is pushing it. I got a bit frustrated. I very much appreciate his POV as a site owner because I think this is about as close as any of us models interested in this venture are going to get to talking to someone in that role. It's cool that he's taking care of his models and making it so that as an admin, he can handle all he needs to handle without skimping too much on the necessities.

    But if I don't agree with something and see a worthwhile discussion to be had, darn skippy I will challenge it. *srsface*

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Awesome, and just so you know,m that wasn't intended even majority wise for you personally, but more for those I have seen in the past attack ChatGF for being here on a model board...and as I have said before...this isn't a model board, it's Other Work as in Other Adult Work, and he is a Camsite owner, so qualifies 100%...most of the people in this discussion RIGHT now have NEVER been a part of that sort of "run em outta town" attitude that I have seen, so it was more preemptive than anything. I like arguing with him, I see him as the most progressive of the "old guard" way of doing things, and I hope that someday he will jump into the more progressive vanguard. He is one of the few owners I can see actually supporting our union and following it's guidelines for models if they are reasonable.

    That being said, next post I argue...

    B

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    ChtaGF, while I give you respect as a camsite owner, I hope from having read my writings, you give me respect as a promoter. There is a great deal of the promotional strategies and secrets I know, which I will never speak of outright. Suffice to say that Tube Sites are a terrible way to advertise. You point out just HOW terrible. As in bang for the buck.

    I say this because one of the most important things that happens in this business is a stagnation in the progress of ideas. When tube sites were new and novel, they had not yet become the refuge of the desperately broke "NEVER SPEND MONEY" porn loser. In fact, the TGP was, at that point, the refuge of the dbNSMpl, and camsies were dumping money and effort into TGPs like it was water...This is the way of the corporate attitude, male dominant, web inefficient, non techie, camboss. To always be one step behind, dumping money into things which are "so last week", and never catching the right boat...it's like those who still spend money and time and energy to advertise their spam on Yahoo chat which they killed years ago with their garbage...spambots now talk to spambots in an odd ballet of cyber one-upmanship, while real users cannot even chat, so have moved on...

    It is these sorts of wasteful and useless promos and advertisements which end up wasting huge amounts of money. One can easily, in a fairly decent cam site, say $50k per week, use 20% and give a LOT of bang for that buck. Sheesh, even camsite re-direct traffic is better, in my opinion, than TUBESITE traffic. $40k per month can bring an awful lot of traffic.

    Which brings us to why I continually say that using MFC and SM as examples here is a TERRIBLE idea, since I will always disagree with you about them. SM brings in a huge amount of money per week, and keeps MOST of it as far as model payment. So if we go VERY lowball and say 250k per week, 1mill per month, they can pay 200k on promotion and pay their models 50%. At 35% they keep 650k, nd could easily dump 500k into advertising for a month. And instead of blanketing the US in late night TV infomercials, they buy TUBE site ads...oh wait, yes, they buy Tube site Ads from the BIG tube sites...because they OWN 3 of them. So they pay the money into their pocket in an excuse not to pay the girls who work for them. Everyone knows SM owns several of their advertising outlets. They have been accused of backdoor owning their own affiliates sites, to funnel money back to themselves in different company names, and many other shady practices. THAT is why they advertise as they do, and MFC does it so differently. Because MFC generally HAS to get SOME bang for the buck.

    That all being said, I can put together an advertising/promotion plan that increases the conversion ratio 5-fold, doesn't really need affiliate programs (like MFC and AW), and allows for your camsite to flourish because models WANT to be there. Stick around and watch us...I think I can teach an old dog, some new tricks...

    B

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Also, if I own a few BIG tubes, and I offer the others that are my equal to put some ads on MY tube, I f I can put some ads on theirs, if costs me nothing....Did you ever think of how SM actually works?

    B

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Hi all,

    I'm glad to see that more people are getting involved in this discussion.The fact that ChatGF owner spend his time trying to bring some valuable information to your eyes, should be seen in a constructive point of view.
    All tho he mentioned that many sites are coming out every month and as many are going away, I believe your project can be successful. He did mentioned some great info, that many of you are not aware of and I might add that he left out few very important like: hosting, high bandwidth fees( live streaming uses the most of bandwidth), employees( programmers, designers, accounting, lawyers etc.). All this additional costs will be deducted from the gross revenue.
    Besides all this aspects, I believe your project can be successful. I'm saying this because one of the most important aspects of a new site will be covered from the start, and that is PERFORMERS on the site. If all the models involved in this project will work together and understand the costs from the beginning, than it can be done.

    Just my 2cents

    Best Regards

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    About the debate on steal guys: I am a SMALL site and most of my traffic is STOLEN guys, my models bring them in chatGF for the 82% from the 30%-50% sites, and actually I live out of my cute theft girls. I even teach them how to steal them better without being busted
    Some was bringing it to camcontacts who paid 80% then I raised to 82% and guess what, girls moved to mine just for this 2% more, seems I learned how to deal with the cam girls after so many years, for girls is matter of principle, 82% is more then 80% isn't it? lol
    Most my customers are stolen from SM and MFC of course, but just because there's more to steal there, nothing personal, I respect both sites for having success sales and models and members, even if I disagree on style of both in many ways. SM added tips and allows sex in free and so their difference is reducing, now just livejasmin seems to resist old way.

    Of course when you are the BIG site, you can't live from referred guys (as we, the small insects) and more likely girls bring guys away off site, not into it - then must get traffic from where it is big and that's tubes since 2-3 years and that's future for now, I mean nothing next to tube arisen yet, maybe facebook of porn?

    Oh livecamdesire site owner there? We're 2 evil pimps now
    I see you pay 50%+ and you posting in other cam forum except here so you may listen cam girls needs - so you're cool. But I see all models offline at your site, and was all offline other times I checked back in January (accidentally some bucharest ones you list are online now in chatGF - and MFC of course, they're all and always there in MFC hehe) - I bet your girls tried be online few days or max a week, then gave up as not flooded of traffic as in the SM, MFC and such?

    Again I repeat - good faith guys (or gurls) open sites who pay 50% to 80% and invest $$, then models have no patience to stay online and help them grow traffic. I don't think is just because owner is not cam girls?

    Then yes, there's those monopoly or oligopoly old big cam sites who also are friends (if not shareholders) of the big tube sites who got all the traffic, like a mafia club you can't join. Bambalina, I know many tube site owners and no one is directly streamate owned.. you say SM own 3 tubes, how you know this for sure? Why don't you list their names? SM host the rebrandings of tibe but I seen the SM contracts, they not own the tube, but if you check the info for sit eit's hosted at streamate. I talk of xvideoslive.com, redtubelive.com , pornhublive.com , youjizzlive.com , youpornmate.com , porntubemate.com , xhamstercams.com and many others, is all SM named over the tube (and you see that's pretty most of all the top tubes). Simply SM gets most tube deals (whitelabels) because SM win on revshare % they give (why a tube should deal with who give less %?), and because "other tubes have SM, so we put SM too", is same as MFC, every model went in MFC also because heard others went in MFC, is the amplificator effect. When you surpass 30% market share, you get an automatic +20% due to critical mass, and since there's not an antitrust on cams (like an authority who will split big sites in pieces like they tried to do with microsoft so it not dominate the world).. in cams monopoly can be and stick forever. No govt antitrust will intervene to facilitate competitors.

    Of course I believe Bambalina have some special advertising secret she will not share - I have also mine, would be stupid to write all own info in forums. I also still get most of new customers from small good sources (where traffic convert 1 customer every 10 or 50 clicks, rather than every 1000's), the issue is that those are limited, after you buy them all, to grow more, you have to go tube. And if want only use small good traffic source, total is small customers, and small site collapses (some bills are fixed same if big or small site), need reach a critical mass - people liked my numbers info, then ok let's say do $100k/month sales to just stay up as mini cam site (income of owner less than $5k a month if pay big %, and nano-advertising up). To start bite the big sites must do some $100k's a mo, you're a bee. To "compete" the big sites (who sell multi million a mo) must approach the million a mo, then there you can try to change something in biz, from that position.

    Let a single owner or an cam union site move a million a month, not everyone has the superpower of be not greedy - not in this cam work but in previous work I moved the million's and I ensure you people around me started to be dizzy - one person moving such $$ and being not greedy him/herself so keep small profit % overall, can even get pressure from relatives (wife / husband / children / parents ) stressing how is possible you give all this $$ to employees / partners (cam girls) and repeat you every single day: if you paid them just 5% less then you have $100k more for yourself (and theirs - want new car, clothes etc.).
    In general the best is a single person with no relatives or friends who believe in socialism, but he may then be eat by sharks of other cam sites, so need to be shark with competitors and socialist with employees and have no relatives who advice to be more greedy

    One thing that maybe could be an advantage for union cam site of girls, is that the cam sites seems not to cooperate each other really - yes some of us talk each other but sure we don't link each other or trade models contacts or useful info. Or maybe those few bigger sites talk each other as I am only a bee I am out of the club? Can't say this for sure, but about bee's sites there's not alliance whatsoever against the giants, that's for sure.

    Ok this post was more a novel sci-fi then else, but well it give the big picture vision, not only what needs to start, but also what if you get big for real, to keep it all up for real.

  23. #21
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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Lol @ you teaching to steal better. Not bad, eh?

    I don't mind greed. If I were going to start a business, I'd take the lion's share as well because I'm the boss and it's my scheme. Don't need an excuse beyond that. I'd treat my workers fairly and look out for their best interests though as they would be my bread and butter. The greed I see most people delving into is sloppy and they're shooting themselves in the ass. Everyone loses that way. I agree that adding tipping and turning a blind eye to hardcore sex shows is hurting SM more than helping. They may see a spike in TRAFFIC, but they're killing profits. The girls who don't want to dildo themselves in public will get fed up with the slowness and leave. Other girls will resort to dildo'ing (heh) out of desperation. No one gets paid. They sort of go hand in hand, the hardcore shows and tipping, as what else is a customer supposed to tip for if there's not supposed to be any nudity beyond topless? Tits are nice, but all of their customers have seen them so...um...give it a year.

    Also agreed that yeah, a lot of chicks are going to be gung-ho about this, but then their impatience will get the best of them and they'll bail, female-owned or not. What can ya' do though?

  24. #22
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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Great posts!

    ChaGF:

    Overall you are on the money with this last post, but you also tend to a certain mindset, which I consider to be detrimental to business in my experience.

    So, Stealing Customers: I enjoyed what you said and agree with it, however I think that from the viewpoint of Objectivity, you pointing out all the money invested to get the customer there and so on, does not take into account the actual intangible worth of of the model's beauty, charm and effort in making that customer HER OWN. Obviously all of these things must be seen as being "worth more" since most customers have ZERO loyalty to the hundreds or thousands spent to woo him to the camsite, and 100% loyalty to the vagina they are virtually sniffing after...So just in REALITY, what IS...the model "owns" that customer, and not the camsite. See where I am coming from? Why I say this is not to disagree with anything you said up there, but because most camsites do not look at this reality and treat it as it should be treated.

    To further the point, I believe that Streamate should exist for one purpose only, that ALL girls should go there and get accounts, and give them as little content to steal as possible, and to build up customers and find better and better and better ways to steal streamate customers. THAT should be the primary function of stream for Western Models. NOTHING else.

    It is truly my belief that contracts and corporations are the only reason we BELIEVE at all the lie about the site "owning the customer" as opposed to the model "owning them"...Don't get me wrong, I believe at BEST it is a joint ownership, and that possibly I might even tip the ethical hat to a slight edge in the camsite owning them...however, when a girl moves and "takes a customer" to a new site, there is nothing to stop that customer from going back to streamate or wherever to see OTHER models, so the customer was never STOLEN, only his participation in THAT girl's shows on THAT site. In other words, the customer always still must be accepted to have choice, and let's face it, it isn't THAT hard (one click on Favorites list) to go back to your old site and visit other models...

    Second point. The owning/re-branding/white label/affiliate nature of tubes and cam sites. I'm not going to go into specifics on the ownership of tubes by SM, as it is documented elsewhere, and doesn't really matter, as you even said up there, that with hands in pockets more than most people have hands, that yes, it may cost ChatGF $10K for a tube ad, or even $100K for a Big Tube, it DOESN'T cost SM that. Since they have so many deals with those sites it is ridiculous. Again though, THAT is why they advertise there.

    I find it interesting however, that you seem to think (like most in this business) that the largest mine of users exists from tube sites. I am a promoter, and I know several other promoters, whose SOLE job is to bring paying customers to sites, and NONE of them feel that the TUBES are a "best source"...since the two words that are most important are SORELY lacking in the Tubesite world..."Paying" and "Customer"...Just like TGPs in the past, which were the darling of adult marketing a few years back, Tubes are havens for guys who ONLY want FREE porn.

    Do you notice that as the popularity of advertising to Tubes exploded, the numbe3r of freeloaders exploded as well? Is everyone so blind? It happened with TGPs as well...it is like a cyclone of (as Spinnerette puts it) shooting themselves in the ass.

    So yes, there are MUCH better ways, and many of them are QUITE unlimited to get new traffic. And while I agree with the critical mass idea, I also think that there is MUCH else involved here. So we wait and see. But generally these sites need something that is new and different, and if it isn't revolutionary, then there needs to be a few LEVELS of new and different.

    Greed - I am an incredibly greedy person. I believe that every action of every person on earth at every moment since the beginning of time can be traced to GREED and/or selfishness. However, I also define those words in a way which might surprise you. A great writer named Robert Ringer (look him up ladies and ChatGF, it will benefit you) wrote a book called "Looking out for #1" and in that book discussed the unbelievable differences between Irrational Selfishness, and Rational Selfishness. Irrational selfishness is the common greed of corporate earth...it sucks things dry for short term gain and spits out husks..it is the Fast Food giant cutting down acres per minute of our air-giving rain forest to feed cattle so fat Americans can eat ONE more Big Mac...it is the camgirl who cannot be patient and help her camsite grow (why should she? that camsite isn't hers and doesn't even care if she lives or die, except as an EARNING vehicle for themself), but instead runs off to the best short term gain possible...It is the camsite that pays 35% to models because this brings millions into its pockets, at the cost of loyalty from the girls, stolen customers, and basic logenvity through something new coming along.

    Rational Selfishness is being incredibly greedy and crazed about the trees in the rain forest, because they will provide clean air for the earth for the next million years...It is a camgirl who is willing to find the owner who really cares and stick with them and offer to HELP with promotion, advertising, design, accounting, etc...It is the camsite that agrees upfront to NOT make a million a week for themself, even if the big money comes in, so everyone can make PRETTY big money. And in the end, when rational selfishness exists (as in the case of Microsoft, who gave stock options to every employee who started with them, and every one of them, even the janitors, ended up millionaires, as well as MANY japanese corporations, who do things LIKE this) it usually wins out, and does VERY well.

    Also, Want us to co-operate with you ChaGF? Offer us a good reason, and we WILL. And the same offer will be made SV and any other small, fair paying camsites out there. Then we need to sit down and figure out how to get together and offer things the BIGBOYS can't.

    MANY MANY bees together accomplish a LOT! They can even sting a Lion (The King) to death.

    I believe that a balance of self-interest, greed, and RATIONAL selfishness, can make some things happen in this industry, that never happened before.

    B

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinnerette View Post
    I agree that adding tipping and turning a blind eye to hardcore sex shows is hurting SM more than helping.
    I disagree. However, I don't disagree in the sense that I'm saying it is helping them, but that they have NO CHOICE. Once MFC lets opens the Pandora's Box of fuck machines, squirting shows, anal dildo, close up stretched full pussies filling the the screen, all in public FREE chat, with no disclaimer page for kids, anyone can come on in and see for free...The destroy the very essence of the tease, the seduction, the ART of camming.

    I tend to disagree that women who DON'T do these types of shows will fail because they happen, because I see so many examples of them succeeding. However, it DOES make success MUCH harder. It also is a whole different animal when you discuss a SITEWIDE difference. (ie. Stream vs MFC.) because to hang at a site where Missego is available all innocent (yah right!) and non-nude along with the fuck machine and anal dildo, and EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN, is preferable to hanging somewhere I have to spend money to see ANYTHING GOOD EVER....follow?

    For all the complaints, if one cruises around MFC, or talks to the girls with DECENT (or awesome) camscores,, then one quickly will realize MILLION AND MILLIONS of dollars are spent there...So, having free nudity (and fuck machines, and anal dildo and so on) doesn't stop MILLIONS from being spent.

    Thus SM has NO choice...LJ will suffer for not following suit, espcially as SV comes along with no rules and is supported by the women. I like SV and don;t want to harm them in the least. But they ARE feeding the whole concept of "WIDE OPEN CHAT!" at a alevel that even one-ups MFC to a degree.

    [quote=Spinnerette;2066587]
    They may see a spike in TRAFFIC, but they're killing profits. The girls who don't want to dildo themselves in public will get fed up with the slowness and leave.

    And go Where? I mean if all the sites become this, they will have to LEAVE THE BUSINESS, or Dildo in public...or they will go to the last hold-out sites like LJ and make NO money, because all the traffic now hangs out at sites where they get the most bang for the buck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinnerette View Post
    Other girls will resort to dildo'ing (heh) out of desperation. No one gets paid.
    Yet, the women on MFC, who play it right..GET PAID.

    I agree however, that Stream is, overall not designed in the LEAST to be a competitor for MFC. The entire layout, setup and idea, as well as the mindset of the most loyal customers is NOT set toward this sort of shift over, and so it is destined to fail without a really big Re-vamp to SM...

    The whole studio-centric way of SM will also kill the western camgirl from the site and once again leave SM a ghost town for women from Romania and the Asias...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinnerette View Post
    They sort of go hand in hand, the hardcore shows and tipping, as what else is a customer supposed to tip for if there's not supposed to be any nudity beyond topless? Tits are nice, but all of their customers have seen them so...um...give it a year.
    I always though MFC had it right when they opened. Nudity acceptable, and hardcore absolutely NOT. However they very quickly stopped following the rules so they could get traffic, and the minute the millions started pouring in they dumped any idea of fixing it and going back to the original ideals, right in the crapper.

    With THOSE rules however, you tip for strip-tease, you tip for dances, you tip for nudity and flashes, you tip for whipped cream shows and shower shows...all of which are nude, but not hardcore...I think MFC blew it BADLY when they did what they did, but the simple nudity allowed format was not ever going to be enough to SLAM a fucking 1 Ton Lead Weight into Streamate and LJ, and the hardcore shows ARE...LOOK at Alexa on the comparison graph...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinnerette View Post
    Also agreed that yeah, a lot of chicks are going to be gung-ho about this, but then their impatience will get the best of them and they'll bail, female-owned or not. What can ya' do though?
    That my dear, is up to YOU to answer as one of the owners...and right there is PART of your answer...

    B

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    "Stealing" is not about a group of fans following a model from one place to another (that kind of thing even happened when "fans" followed amature women from myspace to facebook), but a model taking the "better members" from a site and getting private cam sessions from them on the side.

    As for what is or is not allowed in free chat, MFC has a completely different business model than any of the other "top" cam sites, and it is built around the "free flow" of tokens thw whole time the model is logged on, vs earning most of their money from a models private sessions, and a little more from "fan clubs" or recorded sessions.

    MFC has offline tipping, and could add "re-runs" of past sessions (that are replaced each time a model does new ones) which would work for the popular models, but the per minute cost of a private is always going to be higher than normal because it's just an extra feature. Other sites like SM or now Cams (with their odd new "which site am I on" thing) can't afford to cut into the private session money with unless they change the core of their business model, which changes the site... and as we all know, even a minor change in how a site looks or operates can upset the entire user base.

    LJ can claim to have such high traffic/hits because it frooded the "underworld" with links to its site, and SM has been trying to do the same thing in recent months (so funny to close an LJ driven ad only to have one for SM pop-up), but it's the wrong audience. A winning site is driven by content, not "hey, more people view our site than any other in the world." They leave-out the part where those hits are just that, hits. People are only on the site long enough to close the link.

    ... and that brings up an issue I have with MFC (about to go off-topic). I know the site is slow to load because of a flash client (we have all seen an example of promo/splash page where we have to wait for flash to load everything), and they seem to use a 2 page "bounce" which makes it look like people are staying longer and actually navigating, but for all of the free nude (and even hardcore) action that awaits after loading, why not hide the long load time as a disclaimer/warning page and fix two problems at once?



    I think it has been covered enough, but my 2 cents on the tube site thing: It really doesn't cost the cam sites THAT much to get their ads/links posted because they are passing along free content in the form of pre-recorded sessions (without paying the models for the replay value), and in some cases, it's cheaper for them to host their own TGP/MGP sites.

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    Default Re: Our OWN Camsite. Owned by CAMGIRLS!

    Oh, saw something on CGU, but am leaving that "for the ladies" ;p Instead of trying to get all of the models into a catagory, why not build around the type of guy that is going to visit the site. Women that "play well" to guys that like to be dominated can be listed that way, so guys just have to select "Dominate Me!" to filter out models that are not into that. Same with role-play or "body part fetish" (sub-listing for breasts, ass, feet, etc?).

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