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Thread: From the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli

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    Default From the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli

    for what it's worth ... from


    (snip)"The Empire is stirring. You may not notice it initially and you may not care yet: in time you will. The US is the only military in the world that can invade a prepared and defensive nation – not only expecting to win; but to dominate the event. Pax Americana is coming to an end.

    Outside of an attack on Hawaii like Japan used in 1941; the US picks its wars. The only functioning Empire in the known universe, America has the capacity to unilaterally act with overwhelming force.

    It normally takes years for a situation to reach a critical boiling point where the US will intervene. The GW I & II era took 6-9 months of obvious preparation time before occurring. Kosovo was an aerial war with no real ‘boots on the ground’ until the outcome was in the waning stages.

    Afghanistan started out as a special ops cowboy war; it has now slowly grown into the largest armed conflict on the planet currently. The Iraqi war is winding down with combat troop levels dropping to historic low levels since 2003.

    Normally, the U.S. is slow to act; however when the Empire does act, under most circumstances it is prepared to handle two individual wars at the same time. The Iraqi war is winding down currently, giving the US the capacity to act unilaterally again. The US has a military budget that is larger than the rest of the world combined. This gives it the capacity to act in its own best interest on demand.

    World War I & World War II are both prime examples of the US arriving into an ongoing conflict with overwhelming muscle. The above will provide you with the context of what is next to come.

    When an Empire decides to attack another nation, there are a set of dances that both sides normally undertake: it’s akin to a ritual courting, in reverse. The outcome of this public ritual dance is war, not a peaceful diplomatic outcome. With the benefit of hindsight, these signs are unmistakable. The US and England have always had a unique international relationship and is one prime example.

    While the US is the current Empire, the US was originally part of the last Great Empire. Those old relationship bonds run deep and true. While the media loves to try to highlight the gap between nations, politicians come and go on both sides. Some politicians are friendlier to the unique relationship than others.

    The relationship is most obvious when it comes down to the art of making war. The US and England combined present a war making capacity that the rest of the world combined lacks hands down. When they speak as one the rest of the world listens.

    “We have seen Colonel Gaddafi’s security forces open fire on peaceful protesters. They have used heavy weapons on unarmed civilians. Mercenaries and thugs have been turned loose to attack demonstrators,”

    “Through their actions, they have lost the legitimacy to govern. And the people of Libya have made themselves clear: It is time for Gaddafi to go — now, without further violence or delay”

    -Secretary Of State Hillary R. Clinton, U.N. Human Rights Council in Geneva.

    “We do not in any way rule out the use of military assets” to deal with Gaddafi’s regime.”

    - British Prime Minister David Cameron

    The bottom line is: the US is going to resort to military action in Libya. The size and scope of the operations is yet to be determined. You only have to look at the building up of assets in the region to realize that the Hammer is being loaded right now.

    If Gaddafi isn’t careful, the Hammer is going to fall on his head. The US Marines have been to Tripoli before and they will most likely be returning again soon. May Allah have mercy on Gaddafi soul; because the US Marines won’t.

    The Marines are coming… (snip)

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    Default Re: From the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli

    There are parts of this world that are ruled only by the most violent. They respect nothing more than anothers ability to do even more violence. There is more Tribal, Clan, and Sect warfare going on than anyone can keep an eye on.

    For law in most of Africa is made with an AK-47. Which isn't even most common murder weapon. The machete reigns supreme.

    Taking a look at some graphics.

    USS Mt. Whitney is one of the ships deployed. This is a Command ship on a long term loan to NATO. This strongly suggests that NATO as a whole is joining in.

    Two Aircraft carriers. That makes a combined conventional (No nuke) air fleet that is better trained and more capable than all of north Africa combined and larger.

    Two Amphibious Assault ships looks likea short Brigade of Marines with enough fuel and ammo for 96 hours of continuous combat.

    I didn't see the USS Comfort (Hospital ship) though this could still be in the Caribbean supporting ongoing operations in Haiti.

    Return to the Barbary Coast!

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: From the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli

    ^^^ Indeed there has been a fair amount of speculation that a Libyan military intervention will be accomplished under 'cover' of NATO. This is initially supported by the 'first on the scene' presence of British and German warships off the Libyan coast.


    (snip)(Reuters) - The United States will soon order NATO to invade protest-wracked Libya to take control of its rich oil fields, former Cuban leader Fidel Castro predicted in a column published on Tuesday in Cuban state-run media.

    "What is for me absolutely evident is that the government of the United States is not worried at all about peace in Libya and will not hesitate to give NATO the order to invade that rich country, maybe in a matter of hours or very few days," the 84-year-old Castro wrote.

    He did not fully explain why he felt a NATO invasion of the North African nation was imminent, but said oil had been the basis for much of the United States' power.(snip)


    The 'talking heads' take this one step further by pointing out that the shutdown of Libyan oil exports and especially the shutdown of Libyan refineries is having a major impact on European oil markets / supplies in addition to its effect on global oil prices.

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    Default Re: From the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    World War I & World War II are both prime examples of the US arriving into an ongoing conflict with overwhelming muscle. The above will provide you with the context of what is next to come.
    Not really. The USA declared war in April of 1917. But it wasn't until well after the start of the German spring 1918 offensive (which came close to winning the war for them) that the American army made its presence felt in any kind of major way. They had virtually no artillery of their own, either--arguably the most important weapon employed in the trench warfare of the time.


    In a similar, but not quite so pronounced fashion; the USA entering WW II did not mean any sort of massive, immediate, effective onslaught on the Axis. Indeed it was a year and a half before the tide was definitely turned in the Allies favor. Though the US manufacturing industry was considerably more prepared than in 1917, the tremendous potential of the US armaments production still wasn't really felt until probably late '42.

    Until then it did a great deal to keep the embattled British and Russians in the fight, but as far as fully integrating that armaments production with the training and deployment of what was to be an extremely powerful, war-winning force by '44-45, there was a ways to go.


    Sorry, just a little historical clarification, there. Otherwise most of what has been said makes some rather frightening sense. I don't know if a US (NATO) invasion of Libya is destined to be, but it wouldn't surprise me. The US has always been much less hesitant to use military force to defend 'human rights' and 'stability' where oil resources are being threatened.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

    ______________________________________

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    Default Re: From the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli

    ^^^ that was a direct snip from the author. Of course, you are factually correct. However, I believe that the author's simple attempted point was that the US doesn't like to 'start' wars, but has rarely hesitated to join a 'conflict in progress' !

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    Default Re: From the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    Otherwise most of what has been said makes some rather frightening sense. I don't know if a US (NATO) invasion of Libya is destined to be, but it wouldn't surprise me. The US has always been much less hesitant to use military force to defend 'human rights' and 'stability' where oil resources are being threatened.
    Not enough of a force for an invasion in that package.

    It can lay at anchor of the coast and posture.

    Totally dominate the air space over Libya.

    Destroy the Libya Military to prevent its use against the Libyan citizens.

    It can seize and hold key infrastructure to protect that during revolution (refineries, water treatment, power plants, civil airport, select government buildings).

    It can seize select military, security force, and Judicial buildings to protect evidence of human rights abuse. (the legal pre-text here).

    The keys to watch now are Ft. Bragg, Ft. Campbell, Camp Lejeune, and the U.S. Navy at Norfolk.

    Those Marines and the Aircraft carriers off Libya are good for 96 hours. After that follow on forces have to pickup and replenishment ships arrive with jet fuel and bombs.

    what's lacking is a decisive political Will. Everybody is speculating because the Commander in Chief needs to step up lay out his goals and give his instructions.

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    Default Re: From the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySGT. View Post
    Not enough of a force for an invasion in that package.

    It can lay at anchor of the coast and posture.

    Totally dominate the air space over Libya.

    Destroy the Libya Military to prevent its use against the Libyan citizens.

    It can seize and hold key infrastructure to protect that during revolution (refineries, water treatment, power plants, civil airport, select government buildings).

    It can seize select military, security force, and Judicial buildings to protect evidence of human rights abuse. (the legal pre-text here).

    The keys to watch now are Ft. Bragg, Ft. Campbell, Camp Lejeune, and the U.S. Navy at Norfolk.

    Those Marines and the Aircraft carriers off Libya are good for 96 hours. After that follow on forces have to pickup and replenishment ships arrive with jet fuel and bombs.

    what's lacking is a decisive political Will. Everybody is speculating because the Commander in Chief needs to step up lay out his goals and give his instructions.
    Yeah you are correct as far as the deployment of forces, their striking power and capacity for intimidation, and logistics. And keeping an eye on those bases. Of course, if anyone would know, it was be an ex-noncom.

    Everyone who really understands the military knows they are the ones who run the show, when it comes down to it. Collectively, could be a more important factor in the success of any military action than whether the president shows enough balls.

    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

    ______________________________________

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    Default Re: From the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser View Post
    Collectively, could be a more important factor in the success of any military action than whether the president shows enough balls.

    Its not a question of "does Obama have big enough balls"; bluntly somebody else is doing the dieing here.

    Obama, as Commander in Chief, needs to quit weighing options and making gestures. He is the decision maker at the top. He can not take his time, look at it in hindsight, or blame past administrations for it. He is losing the initiative by the hour. Every hour he waits to make a decision; he gives that hour to someone else to implement theirs.

    Right now, from the outside looking in, the Orders look like; " Go nearby but, not to nearby. Be intimidating but, not scary we don't want to look bad. Protect the oil fields, except don't look like your protecting the oil fields."

    This is a representative Republic to which the Military is subservient to Civil Authority.

    Maybe someone could play FDRs speech to the Union when he outlaid what happened at Pearl harbor and what the USA was going to do.

    The waffling comes from it is an election year. Obama doesn't have a ex Admirals and ex Generals on staff. General James is no longer the NSA for the Middle East. If Obama turns to Sec Def Gates (as he should) then the perception is that Obama is carrying out Republican causes and working for big oil.

    This can be, scratch that, will be Obama's moment. Biden told us he will be tested, here it is. This is a situation that has arisen in his own term, independent of the War on Terror, and other conflicts globally.



    Unless those other follow on forces mobilize, an invasion of Libya is out of the question.

    There is enough power there to evacuate selected persons to Europe. Right now the fate of Libya is in the hands of Libyans.

    Come what may.

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