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Thread: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

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    Default STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Ok, so there was discussion in the other thread about customer stealing, and I said I don't believe there is really any such thing, and that contrary to the contracts we sign, the camsites don't OWN customers, just as you don't OWN them either. A customer is free to go where they choose, and to not allow you to speak the names of others places you work is a pretty fascist way to do things.

    That being said, there is an art to this I am sure.

    There you are on LiveJasmin, and you want to do a Skype show with SugarDaddyMcWhaley and you got to get him from here to there. So.....

    Aside from your stealing techniques, I am curious about your thoughts on the ethics and morals of "stealing".

    I believe, as I said in the other thread, that LJ, Stream, Camz and all the other low paying sites exist for one reason and one reason only. For you to join them, and steal as many of their customers as humanly possible. There should be a competition for this...Winners are the girls who steal the largest number of customers and the largest amount of cash. If it became rampant enough, those sites could NEVER keep up with the theft either, and would have to alter things..like pay rate...to make models stop stealing 35% customers away to 80% (or 82%) sites or skype.

    So, lets open it up and have a STEALING thread!!!

    B

    PS. B believes STEALING is good for the industry...you?

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Oh, and extra points are given for NOT giving the evil low pay sites ANY content in your endeavor to steal ALL of their custies away...

    B

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    I'm always too afraid that a site will catch me to say anything to a custy on the site. I think maybe I could give someone my email and then from there say, "hey I hate to think you're spending so much money on me. Let's Skype and it'll cost you less and I'll get the same amount as I do now." but I tried that once and he said, "Well why don't we just Skype and let our natural passion take over?" ie, "If you're going to give me your personal number you clearly like me well enough to just do it for free."


    I

    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    Him: we could meet... im 5ft 9 sexy italian with a 8 inch love stick...imagine playing with me... how would you do it
    Me: I would cut off your dick and feed it to the pigs

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    PS. B believes STEALING is good for the industry...you?


    I swear I love you more and more everytime I read one of your posts.


    And HELL YEAH, stealing is good for the industry. It's crazy that there are cam sites paying 20%/30%/35% to the PERFORMERS who are broadcasting on the net to several guys daily...flirting, teasing, playing with toys, etc. To earn $100 and know that you'll only see $20/$30/$35 of it is just a damn shame.
    My referral link for models to join the Boleyn Models daily pay program
    https://cammodelpay.com/ref?page=&campaign=&affToken=NDcx

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    ^I agree with above Isobel. I'm often afraid that if I give out Skype info, they'll think "we're friends now, she wants to talk to me for free." I'm sure this isn't always the case, but I really think there are a lot of guys out there who don't quite grasp that this is my job and my only income.

    But yeah, I freaking hate the low payout. Sites that pay more I think will inevitably steal business from sites that pay less and that's the way it should be!

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    Veteran Member bun's Avatar
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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Hahaha, I always steal while making my 35! I think it balances out the business- if they wanted loyalty, they'd pay a higher percentage.

    I agree that it's not stealing, though. They want me. If I quit, they will find me. If Streamate shuts down, they'll move to another site, they wont rally for it to reopen.

    Now.. as for my stealing techniques

    "Ahahaha, hold on boys I'm updating my twitter! Tweet tweet tweet! Hahahaha. Booty picture! I think you can see my junk in this! Crazy". At least one will find me on twitter and contact me.

    "I think I'm going to run a special this week.. 2.50 per minute privates!" "What?! Starting when?" "Oh! Not here! LOL, I'd never make ANYTHING if I did that on Streamate! On my yahoo, silly!" "Oh, I'll add you, what is your SN" "? Huh, I don't think I'm allowed to give that out here... but lord knows why, it's so easy to find. Anyone who wanted to could!"

    Stuff like that. Ooh, look at all the interesting things I'm doing. Sometimes on SM I'll go 30 minutes without a PVT because of the chattiness of some of these fucks (of course after, I'll be in private FOREVER because once they decide to do a group landslide, it lasts a lifetime) and if I'm just sitting there talking, I'm definitely converting as many customers as I can.


    I also often say that I could never keep up with a bunch of different screen names so I find it best to stay consistent.

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Great!

    Also, let me say, I am working really hard to change the dynamics here within a few weeks or a month...I'm hush hush, but something cool is coming...

    I always said "what happens if you wear a T-shirt with your Website/Blog address on it...or wrote it on you boobs in lipstick, then flashed....or put it on a poster behind you, or well, you get the idea...

    B

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    ^ All great ideas!

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    One of the ladies here used to post that she would tell guys to google her. I am not sure if mentioning google violates terms or not.
    Last edited by lilmisssunshine; 03-01-2011 at 02:35 PM. Reason: cuz i can't type

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    I'm going to be unpopular here and give my reasons for not stealing most customers from stream and similar sites. Main reason is money.

    I charge $3.99 on there for group and I have found that if I suggest they go elsewhere the first thing they want is a huge discount. Let's take the example above at $2.50 a minute, which seems to be a popular rate for independent. OK, so on first appearance it seems I'm making more since I'm keeping a lot of that $2.50, but wait - here is my trouble.

    This former group customer now becomes a private customer. I charge way more for private so I'm losing even more. Normally in group I have 3 or more at a time, so I'm actually losing money here, even at 35%.

    Another problem I've had with this is the time it seems to eat up. Setting up shows outside the site, deciding on which messenger to use, being a tech support person when they are too stupid to figure out how to use it - ugh. Maybe that would get better in time but all that wasted time could be spent making money.

    The only time this all really makes sense to me is if the customer contacts me first outside the site, is a really good customer who does long shows and I feel deserves the discount due to being polite, spending a good long time in a show, and being intelligent enough so I don't have to explain to him how to use Skype or messenger.

    Maybe I'm oversensitive to this all because my time is so so limited and when I'm on camming I need to be maximizing the money I make for every single minute I have.

    With that said, this is NOT a post praising stream or similar sites that only give us 35%. I think it's a ridiculously small amount and am attempting to use them as little as possible. I'm trying to give the sites that pay more percent most of my attention.

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    i tell them to follow me on twitter and wink, they dm me and i go from there.

    i was on SCL and toward the end after they took away our hourly and cut our percents, i just flat out started telling guys in free to do shows with me on skype, i just didnt give a shit anymore, about 2 months later they banned me after i quit, or something. that site was bullshit.

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Skype & twitter ftw. Matter of fact I believe I am going to steal from Livejasmin bahahaha. MFC is another easy one to steal off of because they never follow the rules and if they ban you can make about 10-20 other accounts to steal from

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Well, the twitter thing is awesome, and MFC is much easier to steal from than anyone else, because they allow you to post your web address in the profile. Ka-Ching!

    But they pay enough that it's (along the lines of what Laurie says up there) almost not worth it.

    Overall though, if you charge $3 a minute for private, you equal MFC and you'd have to charge $8.90 per minute on SM to be equal. And if a guy has $20-$30 to spend, he's gonmna be way happier getting the 10 minute show than the 3 minute show, and may even pass you on by for the $9 a minute show...I mean, being cheaper and making the SAME even has advantages in having MORE customers.

    B

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Lets look at this a different way: If your an independant cam model, working Skype/Im's using a 3rd party for billing (one that won't grab your cash for doing adult work), then going to a cam site that deals with all of the billing, streaming, chat stuff while also providing a location, such as a "nice part of town" for models and members alike, JUST to drag the big spenders (that pull-up in the $150k cars) down the street a few blocks to the low-rent section where you can earn a bit more... yeah, I don't see how that is a good thing.

    Really not much different than parents taking their kids from a public school and sending them to private, then complaining that they already pay so much for private, why pay anything for the public school. Cam sites ARE a community. Pulling away the few that help pay for the many means you'll be looking for a new site with better paying traffic as the other one drops in "property value."

    I'm curious... what will be the policy for this new cam model site your wanting to start? Will you be OK with models doing shows off-site, or do you think your site will be just so awesome that would NEVER happen :p

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    I always said "what happens if you wear a T-shirt with your Website/Blog address on it...or wrote it on you boobs in lipstick, then flashed....or put it on a poster behind you, or well, you get the idea...

    B
    Oh my gosh I cant believe i am sooo dense, i keep trying to think how to get my SM guys on my twitter and stuff without saying it out loud and i was a total blank, I am so gonna make a little poster with my twitter name on it and hang it in the background! Thanks B, your so smart!

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    "... allow you to post your web address in the profile." Wait! Y'all want cam sites to allow the posting of a link to your pay site, blog, wish list, or whatever on the profile, as a show of support for the model, but then turn around and "stick it to them" by using it to poach customers?

    How much, NET, do models want to earn per minute? Add 15% or so and that would be a desired Skype show price, per min, to a guy. Um... guessing most models here already feel "upside-down" on the price per minute to customers on cam sites, as many charge less (GROSS) than you would want in total.

    What many of you may really want is an open marketplace, where models and guys that want to see them can meet. The market would just take the money, hold it until the session is over, then pay-out (all for a small fee). If we allow the marketplace to manage the video streaming and related tech stuff for models and fans (for an added fee), it lowers the burden on models and fans in not having to be on different chats/systems and makes for a "comfortable standard." Oh, it would also be great if the marketplace had tools so models and fans could manage all of the contacts they make, help navigate who is online, maybe group models by interest, and of course, keeping track of all the money changing hands (very tiny fee for that as well). Hmm, what does that remind me of?

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post

    I always said "what happens if you wear a T-shirt with your Website/Blog address on it...or wrote it on you boobs in lipstick, then flashed....or put it on a poster behind you, or well, you get the idea...

    B
    Oh I've got a poster behind me with my site name on it The problem is that there's no concrete way to measure if it's working. You just see traffic go up or you don't. I'm pretty excited about it tho.


    I

    Quote Originally Posted by Renton View Post
    Him: we could meet... im 5ft 9 sexy italian with a 8 inch love stick...imagine playing with me... how would you do it
    Me: I would cut off your dick and feed it to the pigs

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Hahaha I've TOTALLY had my website written on my whiteboard when I do picture sets. "Oops!" hehehe. I've thought about those types of things, but the sites I'm on don't care or are crazy Nazis (MFC, MGF... lol)

    Nobody owns the customers, so I don't think it's a big deal. I had a regular on MGF that I was just dying to tell about my cam shows, but was too afraid. He found me on MFC anyways, and now we Skype sometimes.

    ONE of my big tippers - definitely a SugarDaddyMcWhaley - found me on MFI, and then on MGF, and then Twitter, and then my blog, and then MFC, and then VLA... lol you get the picture.
    They'll find you if they like you enough.

    I've made a couple mistakes giving out my Skype though, and ending up with guys who call me NON STOP and expecting a free show. "Oh, hello, did you want to buy a show?" "Nah bb I just wanna see you, you got muh dick sooo harddd" ... lovely... *block after the second time he says he wants a FREE show*
    Last edited by MissEgo; 03-01-2011 at 05:53 PM. Reason: Added Skype paragraph


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    Veteran Member bun's Avatar
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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    I don't do short independent shows. I also know my skype feed is a lot better than my feed on ANY site I've been on. 720 gloriousness, looks like I'm sitting in the room with you.

    So, I take home more, they pay less, & get a higher quality service. They're my customers, always have been and just didn't know it.

    As far as groups versus genuine privates.. unless I'm disabling my privates, it just doesn't make a difference to me. I will say, I enjoy a hot fetish show a lot more than I enjoy my standard striptease/blowjob/masturbate bit. For me, it does pay off!

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    I don't "steal" customers from sites. I simply cultivate their information for my own records. This keeps up the rapport (not every site will have a custy-records field) and consistency in my business practice. That is all.
    "SS=stripper shit, in the same spectrum as CS=customer shit, which is within the spectrum of SaS=sales shit, which is all contained in the universe of BS=bullshit." -- Jay Zeno (mod)

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slab4508 View Post
    Lets look at this a different way: If your an independant cam model, working Skype/Im's using a 3rd party for billing (one that won't grab your cash for doing adult work), then going to a cam site that deals with all of the billing, streaming, chat stuff while also providing a location, such as a "nice part of town" for models and members alike, JUST to drag the big spenders (that pull-up in the $150k cars) down the street a few blocks to the low-rent section where you can earn a bit more... yeah, I don't see how that is a good thing.
    Let's try this:

    You are a camgirl, the ONLY person able to make content. You have a cam, a computer, a fast line...

    The ONLY places made for camgirls to meet the guys that congregate and gather to meet camgirls, is a camsite.

    The customer, who has hundreds of dollars to spend will generally, if asked, say he wants that money to go to his favorite gal.

    The Camsite is owned by greedy cocksuckers who take 65% of the money the customer wants to give YOU.

    So you ask the customer, if out his free choice to do so, he would like to go down to your special place and get a higher quality show for cheaper.

    No Low rent districts involved since the SKYPE HD video is QUITE nice.

    Really not much different than parents taking their kids from a public school and sending them to private, then complaining that they already pay so much for private, why pay anything for the public school. Cam sites ARE a community. Pulling away the few that help pay for the many means you'll be looking for a new site with better paying traffic as the other one drops in "property value."
    QUITE different actually, since this is a business analogy.

    What other business am I kept unaware of the fact that a better deal exists down the road? I KNOW McDonalds has a 99cent cheese burger, as does Burger King, Wendy's etc.

    As far as camsites go, it is NOT the fault of the camgirl if they offer NOTHING more than pulling in traffic and then want 65% of all the profits. Obviously if she can Skype that is ALL that SM or MFC can offer her.

    In other words...do you expect Redbox not to do their thing and steal BlockBuster's customers? Do you expect Netflix to not shut down and kill off Hollywood Video? Camgirls don't NEED camsites anymore for the reasons they used to. Camgirls don't know it yet, but the new era is upon them.

    Getting you traffic is NOT worth 65% of your pay.

    I'm curious... what will be the policy for this new cam model site your wanting to start? Will you be OK with models doing shows off-site, or do you think your site will be just so awesome that would NEVER happen :p
    Well, the policies have not yet been written, that is what ALL of thse threads are all about. But if my input is of any use, I'd say...

    We will be OK with Models doing shows offsite! Because there will be no "boss" making money from girls doing shows on-site. This whole thing will be more or less a "not for profit" as far as the company and corporate structure. and so do your shows wherever you like...

    We will offer copious incentives for the cam CUSTOMER to be faithful to us OVERALL...We will also offer copious incentives for the girls to be faithful as well...

    However, it is all about that paradigm where businesses actually have to offer full value for what they bring to the table as opposed to beibng forced to work for the least evil of the three giant evils.

    No-one has been forced to think outside the box for a long time in this business, and it's about time EVERYONE started.

    B

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    how come you guys think its less likely you will get caught if you show your email/website/twitter on cam vs saying it out loud or typing it strategically?
    i mean if you guys are afraid to say it out loud thats because they watch your videos right? so wouldnt they (streammate, livejasmin, etc) catch it easier if its on the screen the whole time? wouldnt wearing a shirt with your twitter or having it displayed behind you make you MORE likely to get caught than just speaking it when someone wants a private?

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    The ONLY places made for camgirls to meet the guys that congregate and gather to meet camgirls, is a camsite.
    It sounds like the start of a circular argument, saying that cam sites need a way to bring in paying traffic, and models doing shows on Skype need the cam sites to get higher paying traffic... I agree that fans/members DO want models to earn more, as well they should, but it's like a salesman telling a customer to look around the store, then meet out back where he can get a better deal on the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    The Camsite is owned by greedy cocksuckers who take 65% of the money the customer wants to give YOU.
    Personal bias aside, the customer wants the lowest per minute rate he can get. No, more than that, he wants ACCESS to the models he is a great fan of. If he can have a private chat with you off-site, or even know that you follow him on twitter, it might be worth it for him to get 1 show without going thru the site.

    I'd also add that the guys we are talking about have proven to be spender on at least one cam site, have seen you at least one time in private there, and have probably done the Skype/IM cam thing with another model. They work the system as well as you, and while you try to convert more paying members into their type, they are trying to conver more models into "doing things differently" as well, which hurts the site.

    ... and Skype HD might be great for 1-on-1, but uber costly for a site to stream that to hundreds of guest/members at a time (times hundreds of models). It's also something of a USA only thing, since most cam models would not have upload speeds greater than 350k or so (or if they did, would be burning it up working more than one site).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    What other business am I kept unaware of the fact that a better deal exists down the road? I KNOW McDonalds has a 99cent cheese burger, as does Burger King, Wendy's etc.
    Yes, but you're talking about setting-up a grill in the Burger King parking lot, telling everyone that you can make it better, fresher, and for a lower price. Which it damn well would be! BUT, your selling food to people, and would need permits and there are OSHA regulations and parking restrictions and what about sanatary conditions for customers and so on... A Skype show is a practically cost-free adventure, a webcam site business is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    In other words...do you expect Redbox not to do their thing and steal BlockBuster's customers? Do you expect Netflix to not shut down and kill off Hollywood Video?
    Well that is about how much you pay for different forms of access to the same content, and is really a brick and morter business model vs a broadband at home one. To keep with our theme here, what your talking about is setting up white sheet on the side of BlockBuster, setting out a few chairs, and letting people sit and watch, for 50 cents, a movie that you JUST rented from that very BlockBuster store!. You will make a profit while the store takes a loss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    Getting you traffic is NOT worth 65% of your pay.
    Your correct on that, but stealing that traffic for free is not the answer either. If getting a steady stream (no pun intended) of paying customers every month was easy for an Indy cam model, why join a cam site at all? Instead of building a new cam site, just focus on building the gathering place for models to connect with guys that will pay to see them.

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slab4508 View Post
    It sounds like the start of a circular argument, saying that cam sites need a way to bring in paying traffic, and models doing shows on Skype need the cam sites to get higher paying traffic... I agree that fans/members DO want models to earn more, as well they should, but it's like a salesman telling a customer to look around the store, then meet out back where he can get a better deal on the same thing.
    I'll leave the rest of that post for the rest of you to pick apart, but I just wanted to point out... the store needs to EXIST for the customer AND the salesman to be there...


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    Veteran Member bun's Avatar
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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Yeah. When something's online, I usually check Big Box Store, Manufacturer Site, then Amazon.

    I want my camhos like I want my electronics. Cheap, fast, and from a company that doesn't have a stupid name.

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    By mermaidnz in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 02-06-2007, 03:18 PM
  4. ''Stealing'' other dancers' customers
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    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-15-2004, 03:46 AM
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    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 05-11-2004, 06:34 PM

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