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Thread: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

  1. #26
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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MissEgo View Post
    ...the store needs to EXIST for the customer AND the salesman to be there...
    Right... the store where all the stealing takes place, just like the boutique store you're talking about building (where theft will be lower).

    Quote Originally Posted by bun View Post
    Yeah. When something's online, I usually check Big Box Store, Manufacturer Site, then Amazon.
    Misdirected sarcasm... I just pointed out the difference in business models.


    No business gives "ad space" to the competition, but I know some of you think it is all fair game; "let the best site win." Getting into unfair trade practices and other such mumbo jumbo takes us further off-point. TRAFFIC. Guys with money looking for a way to spend it. If 95% of the links they come across lead to one of a dozen webcam sites ("stores"), no one here would disagree that most guys are going to shop around (even if a lot of that traffic is just jerking-off to the naked mannequins in the display window).

    The point I have been trying to make is that Indy cam models are more black market, underground, back of a van operations because they don't bring in their own traffic (not counting repeats), but instead have to get between the paying customers and whatever business they set-up camp in front of. It's a parasitic behavior.



    Your "Take the best & leave the rest!" bumper stickers are in the mail.

  2. #27
    Featured Member MissEgo's Avatar
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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    I recycle my traffic. I'm sure most SUCCESSFUL girls do the same. If I've just signed up for site X, I'm going to tell all my followers on Twitter, friends on Facebook, etc. My regs will show up on that site to see me there.
    BOOM, I just brought 50 people to site X. I think that means I'm AT LEAST entitled to 50 that were already on there.
    The analogies are getting out of hand.


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  4. #28
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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Hehe.. ok, now I want to know who the new MAN on the board works for that he thinks he's the expert on Indy camgirls enough to define us as "parasites"?
    "SS=stripper shit, in the same spectrum as CS=customer shit, which is within the spectrum of SaS=sales shit, which is all contained in the universe of BS=bullshit." -- Jay Zeno (mod)

    "Show me a hot chick and I'll show you someone who's tired of fucking her."






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  6. #29
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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    First, I completely disagree with most of the analogies you try to run across, and secondly will admit mine are not perfect either.

    But to say that a camgirl is a parasite is extreme and actually bullshit. I am not talking about parasite being OFFENSIVE, which I will let others call you out for, but just plain incorrect, When a leech or a flea sucks my blood, there is no benefit to ME, the host. It gives nothing in return, which is the difference between a symbiotic organism like a clown fish (to an anemone..awww Nemo!) or better yet the more perfect would be the remora, who travels with the shark, and cleans bacteria and parasites off, and in return gets to eat, and be transported around and is protected by being attached to a big ass shark. Most would say in this relationship the remora gains more than the shark, and that may be so, but parasite it is NOT.

    We must presume that a camgirl who is getting customers is also bring ing them into the camsite, since there is not a perfect way black and white, saying a customer is or isn't...I mean, if Bob comes in and sees our Model and tips her 5 gold, Bob just made the model $1.75 and made Streamate $3.25 and the customer wasn't touched nor was their usage affected. So you have, right there BLOWN the purity of your parasitic comparison, since only certain special customers are re-directed. In fact, since you make the point about these customers having gone private at least once, generally, that right there truly dashes any parasitic comparison.

    In fact I am curious how you define the very fact that a model might bring in $10,000 to streamate in say 60-90 days, and re-direct for herself say, $5000-$10000? Since this seems to be more how the relationship would work. Not a PARASITE to say the least.

    Next, lets move on to your inaccurate analogies to sheets on the sides of Blockbuster, Selling things out behind the store, and setting a grill in burger kings parking lot.

    First off, camgirls are NOT employees of the camsites. They do not get benefits or owe actual loyalty to the camsite. They are not shareholders who benefit from the boneheaded moves camsites make to raise their profit at the expense of the camgirl. It is VERY obvious that camsites feel no loyalty whatsoever to camgirls, and generally treat them as completely expendable pieces of garbage (even to the point of turning a blind eye to trafficked and truly exploited desperate women in third world countries for profit), and the concept of compassion and empathy very rarely if EVER exists between website and camgirl. They provide a place where guys will gather, and in the end, no MORE or LESS is truly NEEDED by a camgirl. I have said this for a long time. She can do her own cam, she can do her own site, she can do her own payment processing. But to do traffic on a large enough scale to make a living would be very very hard. Why? Well, I'll get to that too in a minute. But the big camsites, are not offering value for value on a level playing field, and in any case like that, the "camgirls" are justified in doing what is necessary to level the field.

    Now, lets discuss analogies that come closer to the mark. The small "boutique" store you point out is a good way to put it for a independent camgirl, and they are sitting in their town and could be doing quite well, but fucking Walmart (Stream, MFC, LJ, Cams, etc.) opened just up the road. Well those boutiques go out of business, because they cannot compete with WALMART, but these girls, well they are the ONLY real content that Walmart sells...Do you see how all your analogies fail, because it isn;t flipping burgers, or showing movies on bedsheets, or selling stoves out behind the store, and it can NEVER be that...because the girls we're discussing ARE the product...So the only way your analogy works is if the fucking burger hopped off the grill and ran outside and said it would sell itself to you for 89cents...Or the stove discounts ITSELF...See, these analogies are all completely flawed...because very few industries are humans who provide an entire service from beginning to end, so ripped off and low paid...for bringing in customers...in the end, these women you discuss as burgers and movies on walls and stoves at the appliance store ARE the product.

    So, what do camsites expect when they ask the PRODUCT to come exploit itself, for low pay, and we OWN you and your content and everything you ever do on here in perpetuity and any outside reference will get you banned and oh yeah, we keep 65% of ALL the money...and all 'the product', who is a living breathing human being with thoughts and needs and mouths to feed and rent to pay and life to live, all she has to do is say "meet me on skype" and she TRIPLES her money.

    You want to identify it with all sorts of really insulting metaphors, comparisons and so on, so be it...but it isn't BACK ALLEY anything. Everything is just as good as if they bought it on Stream or MFC..cam quality, show, payment processing, etc...not back alley and often BETTER than Stream can provide.

    Lastly, let's just say that streaming video cam sites on any scale above say 10 girls, were outlawed tomorrow...So Stream, IMLive, MFC, LJ, F4F and all the rest are GONE. The hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of desperate cam guys would still be there...the girls would still be there, the content would still be there, the need for shows would still be there, everything would be there for a huge industry to exist and it WOULD re-form and you know it would as tiny boutique sites, listing sites, single femme camsites, etc. and that my friend, make the ACTUAL damn PARASITE obvious in this scenario..the one goddamn part that really isn't necessary and only serves to cut the ladies pay and cost the customer MORE. The CAMSITE.

    And you know? It exists because it came into being when there was no social media for advertising, or other easy ways for the women to advertise themselves, and because it is the elephant in the room that no-one notices now, how little it is actually relevant, everyone accepts that this is how it is "supposed to be".

    If camgirls TRULY united and used collective strategies they could put the bigbox sites out of business for good and make a MUCH better industry for themselves in 6 months max. Sure, it can;t happen because people are too shortsighted to see their own best interest at play, but it IS a truth that in the perfect world it could EASILY happen.

    B

  7. #30
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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Parasitic BEHAVIOR.

    ANALOGIES.


    If I filter out all of the hate for big cam sites and your growing dislike for me, there isn't anything left in your post ;p

    You hate the big heartless cam site and the greedy fat money grabbing bastards that run them, but NEED the traffic they bring your "independent" operation, and justify it by saying "if they paid us and treated us better, we wouldn't have to do this (steal)" (not an ACTUAL quote of course). My point of view is that models that work on a site just want to work on the site, and not be asked to chat or have their cam on off-site, nor go thru the extra effort to manage it all. Just as you hate to see models doing hardcore or "deep anal shows" in free chat, because of how it changes the image of the site as a whole, and most of what the models there offer (or will now be asked to do), I'm sure many models hate the idea of a guy not spending on them because another model took "their fan" offsite so he could save a few bucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    ...the remora, who travels with the shark, and cleans bacteria and parasites off...
    How does a model "clean" a cam site?

    If your promoting yourself and helping NEW guys find you on a cam site, then yes, you are bringing in new traffic (not just guys that surf around the different sites already), but being on the site, where new members (potential members) can see you (because your actually working their), helps with retention, in which case I agree that sites are totally dependent on the models. They don't care because they pander to the lowest common denominator (appreciation for quality ANYTHING in the adult industry is severly lacking).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    They provide a place where guys will gather, and in the end, no MORE or LESS is truly NEEDED by a camgirl. I have said this for a long time. She can do her own cam, she can do her own site, she can do her own payment processing. But to do traffic on a large enough scale to make a living would be very very hard.
    Yes, but your point of view is one of "I'm just there for the traffic, not to make them any money off of me." I also know models do not work for cam sites, but any boss in any job would be happy to fire an emploee with that kind of attitude, and doubly so because your working directly with customers.

    I know it's all about the shit pay, but that argument aside, I don't think I will ever understand why an Indy model would be on a cam site. The website is like a turn-key solution for models that just want to work on cam, for whatever need/reason, where Skype/IM's/3rd party billing is the do-it-yourself kit where you not only build it but make them come for you ;p


    This idea of camsites as the great evil now that models and fans have other ways to connect leads me to believe your ideals for how things should be vs how things will actually work when you try to put everything together is so far off because you don't appreciate what actually happens in the background. You can chat, Skype, and use a payment service, so, how the fuck hard can it be for everyone to do this, right?

    I look forward to seeing this new site collective take shape (assuming I haven't been banned from here for sounding like THE MAN). There are countless details on top of details yet to work out, or even know you have to work out.


    FYI
    I do not consider myself an industry insider, and would be greatful to anyone that smacked me in the head if they ever saw me at an AdultCon or industry event acting all "pimp," but I do have 5 or 6 years experience working behind the lens/scene. Can't say much more than that, except, because of a conflict of interst/IP stuff, I have to be careful about what I DO say, and can in no way help you directly. /disclaimer ;p

  8. #31
    Featured Member crispy's Avatar
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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    who is this troll and why are we feeding him?

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  10. #32
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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slab4508 View Post
    Parasitic BEHAVIOR.
    Your definition is then that if anyone takes anything from anyone, that is parasitic, since I clearly pointed out how the camgirl DOES bring traffic, and will usually do at least one private for a customer, and probably also gets tips using the camsite.

    This definition is ridiculous. Parasitic behavior would be for the camgirl to suck the camsite dry and offer nothing in return. Otherwise it becomes symbiotic.

    If I filter out all of the hate for big cam sites and your growing dislike for me, there isn't anything left in your post ;p
    I don't really dislike you. Just completely disagree with you. I think we're discussing a wide open market where no-one can claim moral high-ground, and to argue against a camgirl doing what she can to increase her income is a ridiculous stance, to call it theft is to accept a definition not used anywhere else in real law, and basically to defend a paradigm that is unfair and extremely poorly thought out, is just plain intellectual suicide. But if you want to leap from that cliff, feel free.

    I'm not even sure that a camsite having a paragraph in their contract dedicated to defining this as "stealing" is anything more than just the poor attempt to re-define reality into something that better fits their profit model, since I know of NO case law that defines this as "correct" and think it VERY likely if there was clear legal precedent, at least ONE camgirl somewhere would have been sued, right? I mean if they are CLEARLY stealing from the site and the site can prove it (which would be VERY easy by planting the stolen customer, if this was the case, right?), why do they not sue? I think it is because they are including an un-enforcable clause in the contract to scare the camgirl and make her think she's doing wrong if she does this, and to allow them some breadth in kicking her off, if she is "caught stealing" since it WAS at least a contracted agreement, if not a LEGAL one.

    You hate the big heartless cam site and the greedy fat money grabbing bastards that run them, but NEED the traffic they bring
    Just as I am sure "Ace Hardware", or even better "Bob's Hardware" hate Home Depot and Walmart and need the customers they have. However, as you notice you COMPLETELY bypass the central theme of Camgirl as product...and thus, Camgirl BEING the product of SM has the right to walk across the street and if Customer follows her, the customer followed the PRODUCT, not just some shyster salesman who is selling bags of screws outback for 25% off...

    Your analogies just don't work the INSTANT you make the camgirl, the actual product these sites sell, since that makes them strictly become pimps, who are VERY MUCH using these girls. The Camsite is the un-needed punk ass bitch in this equation, and nothing you posted here shows otherwise. The camgirl is the Product, the Content, the actual focus of the business, as well as her own salesperson, even ON the camsite, where she must retain the customer from the thousands of other camgirls on the site...Because the camsite has no problem with also offering her Competition RIGHT on the same screen with her...she is NOT an employee but a INDEPENDENT contractor, who owes NOTHING to the camsite. She IS the product. Face it.

    The customer IS an independent being allowed to spend his money anyway and anywhere he chooses. The camsite is only his friend in that it brings him a place where he can shop for a girl he truly enjoys. Once he finds her and they have done whatever necessary to decide they want to share time together, the camsite is irrelevant. I believe that camsites are obsolete, and that all that needs to be done is to dig the graves and drop them in. I intend to be ONE of the principles involved in doing so.

    The Camsite is the equivalent of a pimp...an Unnecessary distraction which has, through tradition, placed himself between the camgirl and her customer and through massive advertising, convinced these principles that the camsite itself is a "needed thing". So in essence, you are defending pimps here...Agents...."Yo baby, come to papa, I will get you customers and protect yo ass, and all you have to do baby is give me MOST of your money..."

    Your position is untenable, and using intellectual gymnastics and creative editing to avoid the actual idea of my last post, do not do you credit. Especially considering you are on the "un-popular" side of the debate.

    your "independent" operation, and justify it by saying "if they paid us and treated us better, we wouldn't have to do this (steal)" (not an ACTUAL quote of course).
    Nice Try! I especially like the "independent" in quotes and the (steal) in parenthesis! "E" for Effort!

    If they did something other than providing a truly un-necessary service, and they treated women decently, and they paid a "value for value" wage, the "stealing" wouldn't exist.

    But wait, a woman cannot STEAL herself...she owns herself...and by offering HERSELF elsewhere, and YOU defining it as STEALING, would mean the Website OWNS her...right? I presume that in your country of origin SLAVERY is illegal, and the camsite cannot OWN her, or her shows or her LIVE content, no matter how they try...they may own their FOOTAGE of it, or their PICTURES of her, but they do not OWN her or her actual shows and therefore have NO right to dictate where she does them or for who, especially after THEY insisted on her being an "independent" (my turn for the quotes, eh?) contractor. SHE IS HER OWN CONTENT. They have none without her.

    And no-one in their right mind would say anyone OWNS the customer. That is ridiculous. That the mere whisper of the words where he can find her outside are a true breach in anything...

    My point of view is that models that work on a site just want to work on the site, and not be asked to chat or have their cam on off-site, nor go thru the extra effort to manage it all.
    My point of view is that those who work in a sweatshop don't know there is a MUCH better way and that they can do it, because no-one has yet offered them the better way. I believe thusfar the BETTER way is on the horizon, and I am going to be part of it, but until then, there is a way, that with a little effort they can make MUCH more money for much less energy, and that if all webcam girls were made aware of that, you would see a MUCH higher percentage that would be asserting their rights to "INDEPENDENTLY" (there I go again) contract for themselves and let customers know that exists. You call it stealing because that sounds NASTY..I call it asserting her rights, because legally she is not a slave, nor is the customer, we're in a VERY open marketplace on the internet, and thus, this is how the game works.

    Just as you hate to see models doing hardcore or "deep anal shows" in free chat, because of how it changes the image of the site as a whole,
    Absolutely incorrect yet again Detective Duh...(kidding...sorry)

    I hate to see these shows because they undermine the models making money in the end. They ruin the money-making possibility of camming, by offering for free what is supposed to be the "product". It is like cutting one's own throat. Fuck the image of the site. I care about the money-making environment..nothing more. And I also care that the sites contract with women to provide an atmosphere where this doesn't happen, then allow it and force the women to break their contract, yet complain if the women then ignore the contract as regards "stealing" customers.

    Can't have it both ways. If you want your contract to be taken seriously, then adhere to it. Then maybe you can expect the ladies to.

    I'm sure many models hate the idea of a guy not spending on them because another model took "their fan" offsite so he could save a few bucks.
    Total straw man here, and you know it...

    I'm sure MANY models hate that camscore is unfair, or that the top models get all the guys, or that site spends more to advertise those models or that the model next door has more guests, or that their sugar-daddy's wife wants to go on a two week vacation...Models not liking competition has NOTHING to do with this argument, and is often used for why it is wrong..."you're not hurting the camsite..You're hurting OTHER models like you!" and it's patently ridiculous, since the guest is with Model A and not Model B whether or not it is on the Camsite or Skype, and also, because any specious argument that makes customers immutable forces that once taken from the site, will NEVER return...just ignores the reality of how the web works...ONE click and the customer can come back to Model B.

    How does a model "clean" a cam site?
    This actually made me truly question your intelligence...

    A Remora cleans a shark of parasites and biological organisms, this is what it does in the symbiotic relationship...the shark doesn't eat it and provides food for it, and protection...the analogy was about the symbiotic nature of the relationship as opposed to a parasitic one.

    Webcam girls provide entertainment on the site, generate tips and groups and privates (only the last if generally re-directed)..she draws customers every second she is on, including those who stop in to see her, but end up spending money elsewhere or even on other girls on that site, and lastly she often provides content the webcam site can use for their own benefit and profit when she is not online (funny, you don't consider THAT "stealing" from her)...THAT is how she "CLEANS THE SHARK" (ie. her part of the symbiotic relationship.

    Yes, but your point of view is one of "I'm just there for the traffic, not to make them any money off of me." I also know models do not work for cam sites, but any boss in any job would be happy to fire an emploee with that kind of attitude, and doubly so because your working directly with customers.
    More rhetoric that I feel you must know is bullshit...

    What other job has a clause in the contract saying "we own all the work you do forever and can profit from it even after you no longer work here?"

    If that is not stealing from a model, then how can you POSSIBLY try to make a case that re-directing customers IS stealing? Especially considering the vast number of small-time adult webmasters who would give their right arm for the content that SM and MFC and LJ STEAL from models daily...So, this is an argument of Big Business is right because it is BIG and had good lawyers, VS Camgirls are right because they are treated poorly, stolen from and generally ARE the content and have a right to assert that.

    You have made no argument otherwise yet that has ANY merit.

    I know it's all about the shit pay, but that argument aside, I don't think I will ever understand why an Indy model would be on a cam site.
    "why do you rob banks?" ... "Because that's where the money is!"

    Once you set up a crooked system, one has to jimmy that system until a new one is in place...

    You can chat, Skype, and use a payment service, so, how the fuck hard can it be for everyone to do this, right?
    I've worked in the background on sites too. I know how it is...I try to point out to the sweet ladies that we have lots to consider and work out...Of COURSE we WANT to pay 90%, or even 75%, but can it be done and accomplish our goals? Etc. There are many things like this. However, SM and LJ and the other 35% places have NO excuse. Once it is showsn that it can be done on a larger scale like AW and MFC, then anyone still paying 35% is a throwback who should be ashamed.

    I look forward to seeing this new site collective take shape (assuming I haven't been banned from here for sounding like THE MAN). There are countless details on top of details yet to work out, or even know you have to work out.
    I won't ban you...I may however reserve the right to call you an idiot...

    It is not your fault if you are part of the old guard who doesn't yet see there is a better paradigm...It IS your fault if you want defend camsites because you own one and you don;t want your money fucked with...

    and can in no way help you directly. /disclaimer ;p
    Okok, $5g's anonymous to paypal will be just fine....

    B
    Last edited by Bambalina; 03-03-2011 at 02:28 PM.

  11. #33
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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    So, how is the "stealing" going ladies?

    B

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    I'm an expert in stealing customers Even easier if you have a twitter account in your name

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by lilmisssunshine View Post
    One of the ladies here used to post that she would tell guys to google her. I am not sure if mentioning google violates terms or not.
    That's allowed on any site as long as you don't post details.

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    so yes or no on getting caught if u have your twitter name or something on your shirt or wall? i would think it would be easy to get caugh since they record your videos

  15. #37
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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    The question is, who watches at THAT level of detail as to read your shirt or a poster on the wall? I mean obviously custies in the room for a while will, but will some moderator who has 700 models to oversee?

    B

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by crispy View Post
    who is this troll and why are we feeding him?


    See, this is one of the reasons I never tell these cam site men the names of the forums I post on. 1) It's nice to have a place where cam girls can talk amongst themselves and vent about stuff. 2) We don't need some curious jerks finding their way over here to be all in our business, giving us a hard time, and wanting to learn our secrets...disguising themselves as "just a curious lurker."

    I do like the fact that on the AC forums Amber has to verify that you're a model before allowing you to post in the Models Only section. I'm happy about that, because we don't need a bunch of guys reading model secrets about how to fake cumming, and how to cam during your period, etc. LOL.
    My referral link for models to join the Boleyn Models daily pay program
    https://cammodelpay.com/ref?page=&campaign=&affToken=NDcx

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Just wanted to bump this thread, I think this is a good discussion (aside from the troll) and would love to hear more peoples experiences.

    I have been caught a couple of times stealing customers, often they ask you to remove whatever and get back to camming. Never had an issue with suspending or banned accounts. The trick seems to be spacing it out and haveing a few accounts on different sites.

    On a side note does anyone else think its creepy that they are watching your vid 24/7. And if they are how come some many things agenst the rules go on without notice? (yes I already know the answer)

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by goupilandcie View Post
    I have been caught a couple of times stealing customers, often they ask you to remove whatever and get back to camming. Never had an issue with suspending or banned accounts. The trick seems to be spacing it out and haveing a few accounts on different sites.
    What the hell does any of that mean? You have been caught, but never banned or suspended... asked to remove whatever? Yeah, models on here are always talking about admins that come into their chats, asking them to take-down the banner behind them with their twitter account on it, and get their ass's back to work.

    Not even sure how to make fun of the whole "spacing it out" part, but how would being on different sites protect you from being caught?

    Quote Originally Posted by goupilandcie View Post
    On a side note does anyone else think its creepy that they are watching your vid 24/7. And if they are how come some many things agenst the rules go on without notice? (yes I already know the answer)
    So, you know all sites watch every feed 24/7, but in the same sentence do the whole what if they really were thing? Hmmm, 12 live streams per "supervisor" means needing as many as 100 people at a time, in 8 hour shifts, round the clock, JUST to see if SuzyCuntLicker is trying to get a few Skype shows on the side? Oh, and that is just 12 video feeds... how would someone listen to up to 12 audio feeds AND read thru a suicide-inducing amount of freeloader chat?

    ... and you call ME the troll

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    We will be OK with Models doing shows offsite! Because there will be no "boss" making money from girls doing shows on-site. This whole thing will be more or less a "not for profit" as far as the company and corporate structure. and so do your shows wherever you like...
    What is the point of running a business for no profit?

  21. #42
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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    so.....can you tell guys to follow you on Twitter?? or FB, give them a fake real name.....then take it from there? That seems like a no brainer to me, however being brand new to camming I dont want to do anything to get shut down, and frankly, at LEAST the traffic is there on the site......unless you are a computer mastermind or a well known name guys arnt going to skype you enough to make it worth it.....just my 2 cents, please correct me if I am mistaken
    if you hate me for being beautiful, you will love me for being dumb.......no one is perfect

  22. #43
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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    ment to ask if mentioning twitter or FB is a no no on sites.....
    if you hate me for being beautiful, you will love me for being dumb.......no one is perfect

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by lusciouslips View Post
    ment to ask if mentioning twitter or FB is a no no on sites.....
    Almost all sites that I know of with the exception of myfreecams have a "no outside contact" rule.

    Your best bet is to use audio and say it rather than type it.

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  25. #45
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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    finally created a blog & twitter using my cam name...have been trying to get my streamate guys to follow me on twitter. we'll see how it goes

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bambalina View Post
    Ok, so there was discussion in the other thread about customer stealing, and I said I don't believe there is really any such thing, and that contrary to the contracts we sign, the camsites don't OWN customers, just as you don't OWN them either. A customer is free to go where they choose, and to not allow you to speak the names of others places you work is a pretty fascist way to do things.

    That being said, there is an art to this I am sure.

    There you are on LiveJasmin, and you want to do a Skype show with SugarDaddyMcWhaley and you got to get him from here to there. So.....

    Aside from your stealing techniques, I am curious about your thoughts on the ethics and morals of "stealing".

    I believe, as I said in the other thread, that LJ, Stream, Camz and all the other low paying sites exist for one reason and one reason only. For you to join them, and steal as many of their customers as humanly possible. There should be a competition for this...Winners are the girls who steal the largest number of customers and the largest amount of cash. If it became rampant enough, those sites could NEVER keep up with the theft either, and would have to alter things..like pay rate...to make models stop stealing 35% customers away to 80% (or 82%) sites or skype.

    So, lets open it up and have a STEALING thread!!!

    B

    PS. B believes STEALING is good for the industry...you?
    Speaking as someone who has psos working for her, and having worked for others before, my first question would be, "what does the contract you signed say?"

    I don't cam (at this time) but if I did, I probably wouldn't sign up with a company that only gave me 30/35% of what's brought in. The girls who work for me split the profits 50/50 unless they use their own content, in which case they keep 75%.

    If you don't like a company's policies or pay structure it is within your rights not to continue doing business with them. But taking customers that this company paid xxx amount of dollars in advertising to get is unethical as well.

    You may want to open your own cam business someday, and treat the girls better then they are treated now. (and that would be wonderful!) When you do open up that business, you'll find you have a lot more expenses than you anticipated, and that you may not be able to give as high a percentage as you first wanted. (I'm sure it'll be MUCH better than 30% though.) After you've spent countless hours day in and day out, and invested money you weren't sure you could afford to spend, and you finally, someday...have that successful business you've been dreaming of, how would you feel if the people you help find customers (because that's basically what a cam site does for you, plus gives you some protections you might not otherwise have as an indy model) blatantly broke their contracts and stole from you?

    If you're that good and you know about SEO and marketing, then by all means, go out and get your own business. Of course, that costs money, time, sweat and tears. It's not instant like going into someone else's already established business. If you've ever done it, you'll see why.

    Oh, and uhm...that's my report on why people shouldn't steal. Thank you.

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoecamgirl View Post
    What is the point of running a business for no profit?
    Well, if I start a charity, and it benefits Camgirls without Cams, for example...

    I then hire you to be the receptionist for our office and I give you $60k per year, and I, as president of the charity, receive a salary of $100k per year, and then we pay the bills for the office and the office supplies and our company cars and our expenses for taking donors out to lunch and stuff...and guess what, the charity is still not for profit. In other words, operating expenses are there, and above and beyond that, there are no OWNERS keeping profits, or stockholders being paid dividends and such...

    Get it?

    B

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Velvette View Post
    Speaking as someone who has psos working for her, and having worked for others before, my first question would be, "what does the contract you signed say?"

    I don't cam (at this time) but if I did, I probably wouldn't sign up with a company that only gave me 30/35% of what's brought in. The girls who work for me split the profits 50/50 unless they use their own content, in which case they keep 75%.

    If you don't like a company's policies or pay structure it is within your rights not to continue doing business with them. But taking customers that this company paid xxx amount of dollars in advertising to get is unethical as well.

    You may want to open your own cam business someday, and treat the girls better then they are treated now. (and that would be wonderful!) When you do open up that business, you'll find you have a lot more expenses than you anticipated, and that you may not be able to give as high a percentage as you first wanted. (I'm sure it'll be MUCH better than 30% though.) After you've spent countless hours day in and day out, and invested money you weren't sure you could afford to spend, and you finally, someday...have that successful business you've been dreaming of, how would you feel if the people you help find customers (because that's basically what a cam site does for you, plus gives you some protections you might not otherwise have as an indy model) blatantly broke their contracts and stole from you?

    If you're that good and you know about SEO and marketing, then by all means, go out and get your own business. Of course, that costs money, time, sweat and tears. It's not instant like going into someone else's already established business. If you've ever done it, you'll see why.

    Oh, and uhm...that's my report on why people shouldn't steal. Thank you.
    Well, we'll agree to disagree.

    See, I find it odd that the camsite has NO problems whatsoever with me bringing in my own customer, and that customer seeing 500 other girls online goes and gives them money too....a few sites ever recognize this and will pay for the customer jumping ship...in other words, camsites STEAL customers from camgirls all day. I see it that a girl who comes to SM (or MFC or whatever) who completely follows the RULES, who loses customers to women who BREAK the rules, and the site does nothing to enforce the rules, but encourages their being broken....well, that is not ethical...and is outside the contract we signed COMPLETELY, since that contract stipulates RULES which are to be followed.

    I think far too many people constantly forget "Independent Contractor"...this means we're not officially EMPLOYEES, and do not get benefits or 401k or anything else...we aren't even protected by minimum wage laws, workers comp, etc. Thus we DO NOT owe the cam site the same level of respect or good-faith that a McDonalds EMPLOYEE owes the corporation, and further, since MOST camsites deal with their camgirls in SUCH hideous BAD faith, I feel the contracts are pretty moot, and ridiculous.

    In my dealings with people I know, who I choose to associate with from the BILLIONS of choices I have, I am impeccable in my ethics and morals. But when we look at a horribly rigged game like camming/stripping/porn/escorting, where the setup is one which is HIGHLY slanted toward the "Boys Club", we are looking at a rigged system...one in which if we want to play and follow our chosen vocation, we MUST "cheat" to survive and thrive.

    Do you honestly think anyone at MFC/SM/LJ STARVES because these women grab some shows over to Skype? Do you even HONESTLY want to tell me that anyone at these sites has to drive a Mercedes instead of a Maserati?

    Ok, I grant you may put in hard work and time and effort to build your successful camsite and you deserve to enjoy the fruits of your labor...UP TO A POINT...If you make 100x what your best earning camgirl makes, well, FUCK YOU and I will steal some customers from you because you're a greedy asshole. And if you want to tell me that the owners and operators of MFC/SM/LJ do NOT make MINIMUM 100x what their TOP earning camgirl makes, then you are either deluded or a liar.

    Sorry, the worker has the right to level the playing field.

    B

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Im not so keen on the percentages either..but thats what they are.

    I also have myself set up to cam indie on my website.. if someone finds me and wants to do business with me that way..cool. If they find me on a site that Im on, I dont redirect them to my indie method.

    Im sure that if I put in the amount of time and money marketing myself as these sites do, I would make bank..there are many women who are indi cam models who do pretty good for themselves...they dont have any rules to stick to except their own, and generally I find, at least the ones who seem popular, are in a specific niche that guys really go crazy over and keep coming back just for her.

    But yeah...at the end of the day, I am a "goody two shoes" who agrees to the terms I sign up for, and respects the contract I sign when I join a company site. If I dont like the terms or how things work, which has happened a lot..I just stop working there.

    If/when I get fed up with all of them, Ill go totally indi and concentrate on brining that traffic to myself, by myself. But its a shit load of work, and will take a shit load of time...and I dont ever seem to have the time or energy to see the money come in, and so I keep on with the sites that do have that time and energy to do it for me and give them the % they asked for when I joined and agreed to it.

    For an analogy (cause I dont want to be left out LoL!) If a company said, we'll find you the customers, all you have to do is the work, you get x% and I didnt like my cut, I wouldnt work for them. If I felt I could find all my own customers and do the work and make way more money, I would just do that.

    Okay, that wasnt exactly an analogy so I guess Im left out anyway...

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    Default Re: STEALING Customers! How to do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlkSharpie View Post
    Im not so keen on the percentages either..but thats what they are.

    I also have myself set up to cam indie on my website.. if someone finds me and wants to do business with me that way..cool. If they find me on a site that Im on, I dont redirect them to my indie method.

    Im sure that if I put in the amount of time and money marketing myself as these sites do, I would make bank..there are many women who are indi cam models who do pretty good for themselves...they dont have any rules to stick to except their own, and generally I find, at least the ones who seem popular, are in a specific niche that guys really go crazy over and keep coming back just for her.

    But yeah...at the end of the day, I am a "goody two shoes" who agrees to the terms I sign up for, and respects the contract I sign when I join a company site. If I dont like the terms or how things work, which has happened a lot..I just stop working there.

    If/when I get fed up with all of them, Ill go totally indi and concentrate on brining that traffic to myself, by myself. But its a shit load of work, and will take a shit load of time...and I dont ever seem to have the time or energy to see the money come in, and so I keep on with the sites that do have that time and energy to do it for me and give them the % they asked for when I joined and agreed to it.

    For an analogy (cause I dont want to be left out LoL!) If a company said, we'll find you the customers, all you have to do is the work, you get x% and I didnt like my cut, I wouldnt work for them. If I felt I could find all my own customers and do the work and make way more money, I would just do that.

    Okay, that wasnt exactly an analogy so I guess Im left out anyway...
    Your reasoning actually makes the most sense in my opinion. I also like the way you tell us what YOU do based YOUR opinion. That is a serious compliment too, because so many think that there is a black and white moral line here, either for OR against, and in essence it is up to each person to decide what they truly believe is fair.

    For me, I believe if they take all the rights...My image, all my cam video, everything I ever do on their site for perpetuity (meaning for-fucking-EVER), that gives me the right to use them the same way in return...If I say "Bambalina has a fan club boys! Google it!" and a bunch of guys google it, then obviously they want to be MY fan, not just a webcam customer who happens to also come to my room, and if they choose to be my fan and go to my fanclub page where it specifically says "The cheapest and best quality way to see me is with skypeHD, and it costs HALF of what a camsite costs!" or whatever, and they choose to do THAT...well, I don;t see how I did anything wrong....the camsite can USE me outside the confines of the work environment, and can also MAKE money off me and not give me any, so that means the road goes both ways whatever that stupid contract reads. Right is right and Fair is fair.

    In other words, if a business exists in which EVERY viable money making making option requires one to sign a contract with completely one sided and unfair stipulations, then we don;t have the ability to "Choose not to work there" because for that statement to exist, there has to be at least one large camsite that doesn't require me to sign away my image and recorded shows for the rest of eternity, and doesn't use me to further themselves and not directly benefit me. Since there is no such choice, that leaves me with the choice of work for unfair cocksuckers, or be indy and "goody-too-shoes" and make MUCH less money, or quit camming. Those are not viable choices.

    Also, I find what is written up there (not by you Sharpie) to be PROBABLY untrue. What I mean is that IF you come up with a FAIR camsite, I believe the theft will drop RADICALLY. I cannot state this scientifically, but I I have worked with MANY MANY women...not a scientific sample obviously, but many different kinds of cam-model...and in my experience, MANY more will steal fro Stream and not even THINK TWICE, than will steal from AW. Wonder Why??? I'm not saying NO-ONE will EVER steal from AW, and I have known one or two who do, but generally it is a VERY low number, since it is harder to find a way to make WAY more by taking customers away and chancing your account, whereas SM is easy, since almost EVERYWHERE pays more. So it is pretty much a real world truth if not scientifically proven that those who pay less and rip women off more, get stolen from more, and those treat women fairly get stolen from MUCH less, at least from my observation.

    Lastly, overall there are several business models I can think of off the top of my head, that would be VERY profitable for the owner/operator that would literally make stealing customers extinct. In fact the models I am thinking of, there would be NO SUCH THING as stealing customers. Too bad the old guard are too stupid to figure out how to do this. But I believe the camgirls themselves can learn to do this right and to force the paradigm of "cam-site" to change to one which considers the customer to be "owned" by whoever that customer is watching or chooses to spend time with, and uses it to their advantage.

    Well there ya go...

    B

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